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Arena, implement competitive PVP.


Entrerix

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I dont want arena in its traditional "WoW"-specific format

 

because of

 

(1) balance issuse - Swotor would, for arenas to be balanced, be balanced around arenas first and everything else second

 

(2) people may not ask for rewards now but they will (just look at rated WZ - many people asked for a ranked ladder system w/o rewards before they were announced; those people are now asking for more than just cosmetic rewards specific to their ranking), forcing pvpers who dislike this particular format to PvP in arenas to stay on top of the gear-curve.

 

(3) Those who dont arena will, like in wow, be looked down upon.

 

Those are, really, my only concerns. I have no issue with an arena system but i also doubt one can exist without those issues ruining the game.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyiper

I just wanted to start this thread to get the idea out there.

That This game needs an Arena system.

Three friends and I have found ourselves re-activating our wow accounts. Just so we can arena. This is a pain as I am now dividing my focus back away from SWTOR.

To wow just because of the arena system.

 

I absolutely agree with that, this game "Needs" a competitive PvP system. WZs or Rated WZs wont be competitive enough for any Hardcore PvPer. By now I'm sure the results and statistics have shown how popular the PvP is compared to PvE in this game, and the number of PvPers in this game is going very very strong. not just in this game but most MMOs out there.

Arena bring another level to this game and it teaches people how to have better and faster reaction time, coordination, teamwork, also learn how to CC and interrupt properly. Unlike most WZs were you see 4 people trying to kill one person which is being healed by a Merc 2 feet away, yet none of the simple jacks think twice, that maybe, MAYBE it be a good idea if they throw a CC on that healer or go and interrupt her heals instead of continuing a failed attempt to Zerg another player down while being healed.

 

I don't like to compare games here but I must say that I've played WoW for 5 years, and hands down I would have quit that game after 2 years if it weren't for the very fun Arena system that they had implemented in that game, which literally attracted Millions of PvPers to that game and kept them as long-term subscribers.

 

Grouping with 8 players random or pro players on your server is no more than a Zerg fest, and not much of a real competition. Though I do respect the idea of this company taking Ideas from other successful games and implementing it into their game, yes rated WZs with 8 players an exact duplicate of ( Rated BGs) what wow introduced around the WOTLK expansion nearly 2 years ago, but this won't stick for too long for most of those PvPers out there looking for a challenge. How many Instanced Rated WZs will people do before they become bored? with no good World PvP and reward and no Arenas, I don't see most serious PvPers sticking around.

 

There is no real world PvP in this game, because of fears of losing subscribers I mean Carebears who join ("PVP") servers instead of PVE, get camped a few times, go on the forums and cry or decide to quit. This is the first game that I have seen with a very evasive and bad World PvP design. It needs improvement and less instance zones and more faction interactions by putting quests of both factions or gathering materials in the same zones, and rewarding World PvP decently with accommodations.

 

Illum would have made it as a great PvP zone A) Had there been decent rewards for World PvP and no not talking about rewarding big groups and Zerging others or having 2 Ops going at it for easy rewards, rather very small groups or 1 on 1s should be rewarded much better than a group, because it requires more skill. B) Add Material gathering Nods and Quests into the PvP area to draw conflicts and reason to PvP rather than separate zones like we have seen from lvl 15-49 and instance a lot of the content. ( again this is a PvP server talk not PvE), so people on PvE won't ever have to worry about this conflicts. C) Create better Objectives, rather than toss 5 giant robots in the center of Illum which even with futuristic technology still can't shoot each other at point blank. Maybe have them do random Aoes around the zone that Does damage, so it gives it a live and real PvP environment feel. D) A wasteland covered in snow isn't the most fun and creative place to go and PvP in.

 

I Rarely waste my time making points to others because most so called average minds or inexperienced people don't want to sit down and figure out by themselves that 2+2 is 4 not 3-5 or 14 nor are they willing to ask for help or go out there and take someone else's ideas or suggestions, because psychologically we all like to think we're in full control and understand. I've had and seen many good PvPers on my server quit, both from Republic and Imperial, I didn't like to see that from the opposing faction because, they put out a very good competition and skill, nor did I like to see skilled people from my faction side leave either.

 

To further clear things this game needs way more than a simple Rated WZs to keep its PvP fans. A) A proper World/Planet PvP design and "system" and B) Arenas, these are two big topics which should not be overlooked and worked on immediately to keep the majority of the real PvP fans from migrating away.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pregnancy

 

My PvP Video

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I dont want arena in its traditional "WoW"-specific format

 

because of

 

(1) balance issuse - Swotor would, for arenas to be balanced, be balanced around arenas first and everything else second

 

(2) people may not ask for rewards now but they will (just look at rated WZ - many people asked for a ranked ladder system w/o rewards before they were announced; those people are now asking for more than just cosmetic rewards specific to their ranking), forcing pvpers who dislike this particular format to PvP in arenas to stay on top of the gear-curve.

 

(3) Those who dont arena will, like in wow, be looked down upon.

 

Those are, really, my only concerns. I have no issue with an arena system but i also doubt one can exist without those issues ruining the game.

 

(1) The balance in this game is already random or based on QQ, so I wouldn't see a downside in it. Also, I doubt a balance only for Arena will ever happen, if it gives the same rewards as WZ.

 

(2) Well, the only complaint I saw, was to add an Augment slot in the Rated Gear, which is a valid complaint since it's a gear for the look, and without your Augment slot you have to use a crafted set.

 

(3) Maybe...but it will happen the same with Rated warzones soon.

Edited by TheNotorius
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(1) The balance in this game is already random or based on QQ, so I wouldn't see a downside in it. Also, I doubt a balance only for Arena will ever happen, if it gives the same rewards as WZ.

 

(2) Well, the only complaint I saw, was to add an Augment slot in the Rated Gear, which is a valid complaint since it's a gear for the look, and without your Augment slot you have to use a crafted set.

 

(3) Maybe...but it will happen the same with Rated warzones soon.

 

you can soloqueue rated WZs, though, and get the same gear, so... yeah.

 

This game is a lot more balanced than most people give it credit for. There are some issues - guard + heals needs a look for a rebalance (not syaing gutted.. but if it were reduced to 35%, would the world end? no.) or a counter (like an attack that disrupts guard for X seconds.

 

Marauders/Sentinels need to be evened out. As it is now, they are absurdly bad in all but the best gear, but in the best gear, they can do 10k in two globals to a medium or light armor target. The class isnt totally overboard.. but when they can burn someone down in 3 globals.. they need to be tuned.

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You all focus too much on wows arena, the Arena type system for guilds in guild wars was fine. I quite liked WoW's arena too tbh and if i am honest unless theres more fun PvP elements added i personally will be leaving. Theres no decent world PvP battlezones are just mindless and the worlds are not populated enough for my liking even on heavy servers, really enjoyed the game at launch but the appeal has waned quickly!
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Arena was never a measure of skill.. it was a measure of who could exploit the current dream-team combos

 

There was *SOME skill involved in Arena* however the above is exactly correct. The majority of success in arena came from having the proper class combination for the current patch.

 

(MMO PvP will always be a joke however until it uses something other than tab target crap with gear gaps/level gaps etc)

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Arenas are a nightmare for developpers. They are near impossible to balance and promote certain classes/specs and compositions.

 

There doesn't NEED to be arenas. Rated warzones will be coming in a short while if you feel like waving your e-peen. Arena in WoW is pretty fun (I used to love 2v2 before they gave up on that bracket), but it is a different game. What I mean is, CC are mostly not on cooldowns, resolve =/= DR and the game is more fluid overall. SWTOR isn't suited for skirmishes.

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Arena was never a measure of skill.. it was a measure of who could exploit the current dream-team combos and burn every CD you had int he first 30 seconds.

 

And they're introducing rated warzones..... So your argument=invalid.

 

Lol truely spoken by someone stuck in the 1400 Bracket

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Yea, this game doesn't need arenas. But it does need better gear between a high ranked rated pvp team and a low ranked one. Cosmetic change is a joke. Needs gear with better stats for those that perform better. This patch made pvp even less competitive with removing rank requirements for battlemaster making it a grind fest.
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Arena was never a measure of skill.. it was a measure of who could exploit the current dream-team combos and burn every CD you had int he first 30 seconds.

 

And they're introducing rated warzones..... So your argument=invalid.

 

Anyone who thinks arena isn't a measure of skill, obviously lacks skill. The skill required to set up kills and actually coordinate with your teammates is much higher than running around in warzones. Sure there may be some imbalances and some OP comps, but that is the whole fun of the damn system. Its fun playing different setups and learning to coordinate your abilities with your partner's. Its also much easier to log on with a couple of buddies and pvp in a 3v3 battle rather than try and get 8 together for a warzone. Yes some classes will work better with others and some might even seem OP together, but the fact of the matter is arena is the only way to get good competitive pvp going, that actually requires some thinking involved.

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Anyone who thinks arena isn't a measure of skill, obviously lacks skill. The skill required to set up kills and actually coordinate with your teammates is much higher than running around in warzones. Sure there may be some imbalances and some OP comps, but that is the whole fun of the damn system. Its fun playing different setups and learning to coordinate your abilities with your partner's. Its also much easier to log on with a couple of buddies and pvp in a 3v3 battle rather than try and get 8 together for a warzone. Yes some classes will work better with others and some might even seem OP together, but the fact of the matter is arena is the only way to get good competitive pvp going, that actually requires some thinking involved.

 

Arenas took practise and coordination... They always favored certain compositions depending on the patch and generally lacked flavour.

 

To say Arenas are the epitome of skill based PvP is like saying words per minute is the epitome of skill for a computer programmer.

 

The only true measure of skill and intelligence in life is a persons ability to think freely. When you are shoe-horned into playing a certain way, that is not an option. Once you learned what to use and when to use it, it was just a case of the first team to make a mistake... i.e. deviate from the established rotation, lost.

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Anyone who thinks arena isn't a measure of skill, obviously lacks skill. The skill required to set up kills and actually coordinate with your teammates is much higher than running around in warzones. Sure there may be some imbalances and some OP comps, but that is the whole fun of the damn system. Its fun playing different setups and learning to coordinate your abilities with your partner's. Its also much easier to log on with a couple of buddies and pvp in a 3v3 battle rather than try and get 8 together for a warzone. Yes some classes will work better with others and some might even seem OP together, but the fact of the matter is arena is the only way to get good competitive pvp going, that actually requires some thinking involved.

 

I remember at launch of wotlk, a DK was my 1st class that went to 80 lvl cause it was the most cool class for me.

Then 1 night, my pala friend asked me to help him with some arena games so he ll get points before reset...

I dont know how it happened, but we end up at 2k rating that night, and after 3 weeks, Gladiators...

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Arenas took practise and coordination... They always favored certain compositions depending on the patch and generally lacked flavour.

 

To say Arenas are the epitome of skill based PvP is like saying words per minute is the epitome of skill for a computer programmer.

 

The only true measure of skill and intelligence in life is a persons ability to think freely. When you are shoe-horned into playing a certain way, that is not an option. Once you learned what to use and when to use it, it was just a case of the first team to make a mistake... i.e. deviate from the established rotation, lost.

 

No matter what game your playing their are always going to be favored classes/specs. Just because there would be a lack of balance doesn't mean that bioware shouldn't incorporate a new fun pvp aspect of the game.

 

Arenas are the epitome of skill based PvP. There is nothing that would require more skill, thought, and communication in this game other than ranked warzones. Ranked warzones even would have the same balance issues themselves, have you played wow's ranked bgs? All the best teams generally use the same setup of classes to be able to reach the highest rankings, and in a game like this there's absolutely no way around it.

 

So say what you want, but having experience in high-level pvp in wow, I know that even though there might be some teams that are favored more than others, I would still like to see the arena system implemented simply because it is probably the best competitive pvp for an MMO you can get. (No competition = no fun)

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I remember at launch of wotlk, a DK was my 1st class that went to 80 lvl cause it was the most cool class for me.

Then 1 night, my pala friend asked me to help him with some arena games so he ll get points before reset...

I dont know how it happened, but we end up at 2k rating that night, and after 3 weeks, Gladiators...

 

2k wouldn't even be gladiator range, and second that was the worst balanced season of wow there ever was. That game isn't balanced around 2v2 either, so your point is invalid as 2s were basically just for practice and fun. If you played 3v3 you would notice that there are a wide, wide range of compositions and even if you get countered, good players can sometimes turn it around and win anyhow.

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  • 4 weeks later...
I for one like the idea of an arena system even more so if its on the Aussie servers because it would be the first time I would get to play arena style combat on a <50ms latency. I also have a fair few friends who said they are waiting for arena to come to this game before they are willing to commit to playing it. So this would be an added bonus again for me cause I could play with my IRL friends.
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  • 10 months later...

They should add arenas, but skip 2v2 and problem would be solved. It's will unbalanced bracket. 3v3 and 5v5 in wow were ok, so I think here would be even better. There are gladiators of every class in wow in those brackets and it's easier to play with your friends in those smaller groups. You don't have to find 5 others players if you have 2 friends who play with you.

 

The problem in wow were unbalanced classes, but also not fair racials. First most pvp players played in horde due to amazing racials (orc's burst, undead wotf). That time the best pvp server in Europe was Stormscale. I remember that even when I played there on cata it was like 27 k horde and 3 k ally. During wotlk Blizz changed human racial which makes him amazingly op. Many players rerolled horde for ally to get that trinket racial. It made human op, for example during s9 in wow undead rogue could hit you with ambush for 26 k with every cd up, but human could hit over 30k. It worked same with other classes. In SWTOR you don't have that problem becouse races don't make these big changes.

 

The next problem of balancing pvp were really strong pve items which were viable in pvp. There is private wow pvp server called Arena Tournament. When I played s11 on original server I didn't see that fire mages were so op, becouse other classes could get some pve items which made them competitive, but in pure pvp gear in Arena Tournament they just smash every other class. WoW classes were many times balanced worse due to that items. If Bioware dev's will take a lesson of it and make pve epic gear not allowed in arenas (rated wz) it can be the best MMO arena system ever.

 

Arenas gave me the biggest pvp pleasure ever. It's much different than wz or ever rated wz. Rated bg's destroyed pvp even more than arenas in wow. Many classes aren't viable for rbg for example enhance shaman, retribution paladin. Nobody wants them in a team, becouse comp in rbg is even more important. Really bad people who are keyboard turners get their gear faster than me becouse they played destruction / demonology warlocks and I was enhance shaman. Every battle in rbg looked same the thing that decide about win and lose are seconds or just stupid mistake. If you think it's better than arenas you must be strange.

 

With adding rbg's blizzard removed skirmishes, which was big mistake. When your arena partners were off and you had free time you could practice with your other friends who weren't so skilled without rating lost. It was really nice didn't take so much time as warzone and you never was bored.

 

SWTOR needs more lategame pvp posibilities it's sure. The best way would be to add both rated warzones and arenas (but only 3v3 and 5v5) with different looking sets but with same stats. Different parts should be able to get with reaching same stages of rating. Also some different titles and mounts. Skirmishes would be also nice. However making epic pve gear not allowed for max lvl pvp should be also important point to make it more balanced.

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  • 4 weeks later...
PVP in SWTOR:

Right now it completely consists of warzones and Ilum. There is NOTHING else. I donät know even if Ilum should count. Sure the Idea of a grand-scale PVP arena is enticing however, what it usually comes down to is 2 large groups who stand at max range from eachother and use AoE spells with some bored melees occasionally leaping in and either dying or vanishing back to their group. There is nothing else to it. Also considering that Republic is severely outnumbered on most servers makes it close to impossible to even complete the daily quest, not to mention enjoying it, if you are not online at 13:00 (CET) when the daily is reset.

Warzones are fun to a degree. I bet there are tons of people who just LOVE warzones. But a warzone is not even close to promoting competitive PVP. Sure, medals and MVP-votes have their merit, but once the wz is over you have nothing to show for it.

I love SWTOR and almost everything about it. PVE is fun, questing etc is really nice, combat is alive but the lack of competitive PVP and the disregard for it is really drawing the overall score back.

I am an ex WoW - player, and the only thing i thoroughly enjoyed in WoW was arena. Especially 3v3 matches where you got your reputation, recieved bettter gear for better performance. Having a similar thing in SWTOR would be more than amazing. SWTOR NEEDS arena. People should have something to strive towards if their focus is PVP, not just looking forward to an endless warzone spam. I want to be the best in PVP, so do many others, but we have no way of proving that since there really is nothing that measures skill in SWTOR PVP.

Please consider the importance of having competitive PVP, and those who agree/disagree please comment. (Unless you are going to write that i should go back to WoW)

 

/signed

 

I mentioned this in my other post thanking bioware for taking a step in the right direction with Bolster, even with all of the bugs, et al. I love WoW arenas. At the very least, having an arena system with searchable ratings will help to curb all of these arrogant pvp posts where people claim to be the best pvp'ers ever to play SWTOR. In WoW, after Blizz made ratings searchable, the pvp forum bragging really slowed down. Arena Junkies contains the smack talk now, but at least the people who post there are all in the top 0.5% so they most likely have some knowledge and aren't just legends in their own mind.

 

Whoops, sorry I talked about the other game too much. I agree with you though...implement 3s or 4s or 5s arena!

 

edit: 4s arena sounds like a really cool possibility. A tank, heal and 2 dps or...think of all the crazy *** possibilities!

Edited by Genttry
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Here are three ideas to increase pvp and overall fun:

 

1. A single Planet that is fought over biweekly for ownership by either faction. Either Republic or Empire (which ever side won) gets to use the planet for 2 weeks in order to get gear (none faction tradeable) by completing quests on that planet while they still own it.

 

2. Space stations that clans can call a 'clan hall'. A clan can get a clan hall by pvping, again biweekly, agaisnt its current owners (or npc's if no clan currently owns it). By owning a spacestation a clan would have the ability to do quests, maybe a special raid for 'one of a kind clan hall gear', mats ect. It would also give a place for clans to call home. The neccessary increase in guild cooperation required in order to earn it via pvp agaisnt an empire or republic clan that owns it would give swtor a new pvp fire.

 

Several loop holes could occur with these ideas which are easily preventable. The first is clan size. Got a clan with a clan hall/space station? well invite everyone to it cuz they want the goods you can get there! So a member limit would need to be set per clan (except per account so you could be all your alts in your main clan).

 

The gear obtained from planetary ownership quests/raid would need to be none faction tradeable. Otherwise people could just make an alt on the 'winning' faction, get the gear and send it to there alt/main in the opposing faction.

 

No bolstering stats in either of these 'events'. I work hard to get my gear and levels, let me see if what ive done matters!

 

'Siege' Times for clan halls would need to be set in a way so that people with different work schedules could have a fair shake. Also, in order to prevent a clan or group of people from becoming too 'powerful' by making several characters, no life playing and making different clans to own all space stations. Therefore, a few space station siege times need to overlap. This will keep clans from making 'super alliances' that can attack/defend all stations since they would need to protect there own instead of defending or attacking for someone else.

 

An example of the siege time schedule: Saturday: 5 sieges at 1pm and 5 Sieges 3pm. Sunday: 5 Sieges at 1pm and 5 Sieges at 3pm.

 

The Planetary Siege would be an alternating or 'voteable' one. An example. 1st siege: Saturday at 1pm. 2nd seige (2 weeks later) Saturday at 3pm if enough people voted per subscription account to change the time on this website.

 

Changing the times makes it possible for anyone who might not be available for 1 specific time every 2 weeks. A system with possible difference are shown by the examples listed above.

 

Bioware I love the game, keep up the good work but gimme a place to fight for and call home!!

 

- L

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PVP in SWTOR:

Right now it completely consists of warzones and Ilum. There is NOTHING else. I donät know even if Ilum should count. Sure the Idea of a grand-scale PVP arena is enticing however, what it usually comes down to is 2 large groups who stand at max range from eachother and use AoE spells with some bored melees occasionally leaping in and either dying or vanishing back to their group. There is nothing else to it. Also considering that Republic is severely outnumbered on most servers makes it close to impossible to even complete the daily quest, not to mention enjoying it, if you are not online at 13:00 (CET) when the daily is reset.

Warzones are fun to a degree. I bet there are tons of people who just LOVE warzones. But a warzone is not even close to promoting competitive PVP. Sure, medals and MVP-votes have their merit, but once the wz is over you have nothing to show for it.

I love SWTOR and almost everything about it. PVE is fun, questing etc is really nice, combat is alive but the lack of competitive PVP and the disregard for it is really drawing the overall score back.

I am an ex WoW - player, and the only thing i thoroughly enjoyed in WoW was arena. Especially 3v3 matches where you got your reputation, recieved bettter gear for better performance. Having a similar thing in SWTOR would be more than amazing. SWTOR NEEDS arena. People should have something to strive towards if their focus is PVP, not just looking forward to an endless warzone spam. I want to be the best in PVP, so do many others, but we have no way of proving that since there really is nothing that measures skill in SWTOR PVP.

Please consider the importance of having competitive PVP, and those who agree/disagree please comment. (Unless you are going to write that i should go back to WoW)

 

Wall of text but I saw SWTOR needs arena, I will support that.

/signed

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