What do you propose that wouldn't inadvertently punish a big guild for simply being big while still somehow being equitable on a player level? If you actually stop and think about the problem and the various angles I'm sure you'll see there is no simple solution.

 

Divide guild score by number of unique player accounts that have gained conquest points in the guild during the week. Possibly with a low limit like reaching personal goal or something before an account is counted towards the divide.

 

Needs refining but that's one suggestion of where to start and it is equal and does not punish for simply being big.

Keep the current system too as an abssolute score one and the one suggeted above a second separate league.

It may become necessary for the guild landscape to reshape. Smaller guilds with similar orientation may have to unite to become larger, but it is too early to say anything concrete about it.

 

This is impossible. The medium guilds instead further divide into smaller guilds. No guilds want to merge because they will lose their guild ship or their nice friends-access to a guild storage. Believe me I've tried, been trying to find ANY guild that wants a merge to come on board, nope, none out there, and there never will be.

What do you propose that wouldn't inadvertently punish a big guild for simply being big while still somehow being equitable on a player level? If you actually stop and think about the problem and the various angles I'm sure you'll see there is no simple solution.

 

Something I've seen used in Warframe are guild types based on size. A Ghost clan, for example, has a max of 10 people. A Storm clan has a max of 100 members. A Moon clan has a max of 1,000. Etc.

 

So...it's possible the leader boards could be grouped by guild size. Where the "Ewok" guilds compete against "Ewok" guilds, the "Rancor" guilds compete against "Rancor" guilds, etc.

 

Just a thought.

Divide guild score by number of unique player accounts that have gained conquest points in the guild during the week. Possibly with a low limit like reaching personal goal or something before an account is counted towards the divide.

 

Needs refining but that's one suggestion of where to start and it is equal and does not punish for simply being big.

Keep the current system too as an abssolute score one and the one suggeted above a second separate league.

 

The only issue I see with that is it favors alt-ism with keeping all alts in one guild. You'd have to restructure repeatable objectives to be only obtainable once per day per account rather than per character. That was the issue with conquest crafting, people with lots of alts could basically craft bomb other guilds into submission do to the fact that all crafting objectives were repeatable except the final War Supply crafting. I should know, I have a couple conquest titles where I basically put up 50% of my guild's points across all my alts.

 

And believe me, I started conquest playing fair and square until a guild craft bombed mine out of win. After that I became a merciless craft bomber, so I can speak from experience about how people will try to abuse any system put in place if that is what it takes to win when everyone else around you is also doing it. Even in the friendly competition between my guild and Remnants of Hope, we still craft bombed each other right up until the end because if we didn't it would have been 2 other guilds competing and doing the same thing to each other.

 

I don't mean to be a negative nancy here, but its far better we pick at the flaws in any suggestion here than wait until something is implemented and realize the true negative impacts, like the nerf to conquest crafting basically made small guild have absolutely no shot at competing. It would have been one thing to introduce it that way, but to give them the illusion of opportunity (even if realistically they had a better chance to win the lottery) only to snatch it away is pretty heartless in my eyes. That's why I said earlier, if their design intentions are for only big guilds to be competitive, then they need to come out and say that so we know what they expect out of the system, so they can know what we expect out of that.

I am part of a small guild on harbinger and we currently are able to make it on the conquest board despite having maybe 5-10 active members depending on the night. Now when there's only one planet to invade we're just screwed. But then idk bigger guilds have managed to attract more players so maybe they should have that advantage. Personally I don't particularly favor the large guild life any way.

They could just up the amount of zones at any one point?

Something I've seen used in Warframe are guild types based on size. A Ghost clan, for example, has a max of 10 people. A Storm clan has a max of 100 members. A Moon clan has a max of 1,000. Etc.

 

So...it's possible the leader boards could be grouped by guild size. Where the "Ewok" guilds compete against "Ewok" guilds, the "Rancor" guilds compete against "Rancor" guilds, etc.

 

Just a thought.

 

This will not work because of the nature of SWTOR. People do story, then leave for 2 years. What I mean is it is common to have a guild of 1000 members with only 10 people on during peak times. So instead of guild size it has to be based on average daily activity. Maybe simply log-ins, but could be number of player hours average per the week.

Maybe they could add another tier for smaller guilds so a planet is conquered by a large guild with an insurgency from a smaller one. Of course guilds will see they can't compete with larger ones so limit their own member size. People will find a way to game any system in place. They may just develop a participation trophy where everyone who tries gets the prize.

They may just develop a participation trophy where everyone who tries gets the prize.

 

You already get that in a personal conquest award if you reach a set total of points. The issue is if your guild does not place in the top 10, ever, you literally have no shot at getting the extra award. I honestly think that matters to people much more than the titles.

 

What they could do is revamp the conquest awards to be 2 tiers, first tier meet the conquest goal and get the blue conquest award, second tier will be some point value above the first tier and nets you the purple conquest award as if your guild placed in the top 10 except the guild ship components and perhaps gathering decorations. Keep the guild ship components and gathering decos as awards for placing in the top 10 with the title awarded for placing first.

If you're not crafting Nightmare crystals you don't even need the encryptions anyway. If your guild ship isn't finished after four years of conquest system being in place... maybe you should have told your members to stop selling their encryptions on the GTN a long time ago.

If you're not crafting Nightmare crystals you don't even need the encryptions anyway. If your guild ship isn't finished after four years of conquest system being in place... maybe you should have told your members to stop selling their encryptions on the GTN a long time ago.

 

Just because YOUR guild ship is done by now, does not mean that anyone who hasn't is due to their members selling encryptions. Did you ever think that some guilds wouldn't have had 4 years of playing to finish their guild ships? New guilds or returning guilds will tend to also be on the small side and either just starting to unlock or only partly finished unlocking their ship.

 

And what if I want to run a small raiding guild? Shouldn't I be able to craft my own nm crystals through my own effort rather than be forced to pay a big guild for the privilege of having access to them? It's not like every big guild is running HE but I can think of many small guilds that would regularly do it because they are progression guilds.

When was it not for the large guilds?

I've always been in a small guild, this feature was never "for us".

 

Unfortunately, so is open our rooms on our Guild Ships. Small guilds are getting shafted, big time.

You already get that in a personal conquest award if you reach a set total of points. The issue is if your guild does not place in the top 10, ever, you literally have no shot at getting the extra award. I honestly think that matters to people much more than the titles.

 

That's what I mean. Title goes to winner, everyone else gets the same prize. Participation is all that's needed. One the winner gets to see their name on a planet being the difference but I wouldn't be surprised they just do away with that. They could work where the winners or top 10 but really that wouldn't matter, just get barely more. One extra or something of what they receive now. Maybe a winner planet decoration if they don't get those now (I have no idea how the guild level works). Not sure if there's a way to help smaller guilds without punishing large ones so they either expand the 10 to 20 or everyone gets it so its not so special anymore.

 

Maybe what they need to do is break it up so you have more planets up for you can only try for one set and have to allow other guilds the rest. But no idea who's attempting what (unless they squeal) and so someone is always going to face off against a large guild but a smaller one might luck out and go after one not in play. Since they're bringing Imp vs Pub back, it should be largest Imp guild vs largest Pub guild just down the line to further reduce how much you can tackle. There's just simply no way to ensure a smaller guild has a chance unless they just make it RNG in some fashion.

What do you propose that wouldn't inadvertently punish a big guild for simply being big while still somehow being equitable on a player level? If you actually stop and think about the problem and the various angles I'm sure you'll see there is no simple solution.

 

Population brackets (under 500, 500-1000 and 1000-2000 and 2500+) in conjunction with both a massive cap raise would largely fix the Harb issue. The bracket tiers would largely incentivize "Empires" to go mega for the prestige. That would leave a relatively functional system.

What do you propose that wouldn't inadvertently punish a big guild for simply being big while still somehow being equitable on a player level? If you actually stop and think about the problem and the various angles I'm sure you'll see there is no simple solution.

 

A simple and easy method is to allow 'guild alliances'.

 

I know my guild will not place on a board in a given week. I am not a power gamer and have a life outside of this game. However, I can generally break the million point mark solo across a few chars in weeks where the challenges align to my play style. Why not an option for me to add my points to another guild on the leaderboard if I meet some set criteria like I couldn't place in the Top 10 alone for my guild.

 

Alliances can work 2 ways for a suggestion (maybe more if others have ideas too).

 

First is as a GM I can align my guild with other guilds and we form a 'scoring bloc' where together we can place on the board. For sake of fairness, the total 'headcount' of the combined 'bloc' cannot exceed 1,000 characters total. This will allow for niche guilds to participate and influence and potentially swing winners. So 10 100 character guilds could ban together or 20 50 member guilds, etc.

 

Second is change the point scoring mechanics to allow for alternative methods of winning. Example of this would be the overall points scored (current), points per active participant, and points per guild member. What this would allow is for a small guild to place on a secondary scoring mechanism like points per active participant without the need to rank up 50 million points in some cases so long as those that do participate are extremely active. The other scoring of points per guild member is to encourage overall guild participation as opposed to 10 high point scorers driving the win if you have 500 members.

 

Not saying either is a perfect solution but it does give a start.

 

The only other option I can think of would be to do brackets based on guild size - under 100, 101 to 200, etc. Issue would be the gaming of guild size to increase / decrease your chance of placing that round with the addition or removal of characters from the guild.

 

Finally it could be a faction driven contest, but that takes away the guild aspect altogether.

 

Blakinik

The loss felt obviously won't be by the tiny tiny guilds that can't muster the points, ever. It's those that are in the running on more or less a regular basis now, getting on the boards, even if it means squeaking by in 10th place, that will just have to stop.

 

Gotta love the implied meaning of this post. "Who cares you never had a smallest chance to get on the board. *I* lost *my* chance, and that is what's unacceptable".

I mean, I can see it as an issue, OP.

 

However, I'd counter-argue that Conquest was flawed from the get go by design.

 

What is it really about when you think about it? Excluding getting a title for those in guild that participate; it boils down to opening up your Guild Ship. Once your guild is done with that? There isn't really a driving factor to participate in it. Even the rewards of a special vehicle you can drive in the winners area is a bit limited and clunky at best.

 

While I personally did not like the execution of DvL... I do feel like there is a system there that would've been best done by working it into Conquest rather than making it an additional separate thing.

 

Long winded way of saying... I don't think you're wrong; but Conquest was poorly designed from the start. It's another One and Done sort of thing for most guilds because it's only real focus is usually on just unlocking the guild ship. Once that is done there usually isn't any interest in pursuing it any further.

Edited October 7, 2017 by LunaticFringer

Gotta love the implied meaning of this post. "Who cares you never had a smallest chance to get on the board. *I* lost *my* chance, and that is what's unacceptable".

 

As I said above, I think most people are upset by the fact that material rewards for placement in the top 10 depend more on guild size than individual effort. Right now they have a chance at least of working hard to get to the top 10 and getting some extra reward for going above and beyond, after mergers that will be less likely without a herculean effort on the part of small guilds while those in big guilds can put in the minimum amount across multiple alts.

 

This whole thread can be boiled down into Bioware needs to remove player level rewards from guild level rewards and give players rewards commensurate with their effort rather than their guild size. It's all well and good to give guild stuff (decos and encryptions) to those that place in the top 10, but every player should get the mats and credit chit based on the effort they put into conquest. If Bioware needs to distinguish between the blue and purple mat and credit rewards, then make that based on a player reaching a set amount of points for each tier rather than a function of their guild placement.

The only way to solve it is to create several conquest leagues, each for guilds of different sizes. Higher leagues get more prizes but all have access to mats.

And it will be easy to prevent gaming the system by limiting a number of people in each guild who can participate in each conquest week according to the league guild master placed their guild in on given week.

Once the largest mega-guilds from the 5 east coast us servers converge onto one conquest board, all other guilds can give up on getting onto the boards for the rest of the life of the game.

 

If you're in a guild that can pull about 2 to 8 m a week on a conquest board, and wind up still there at the end of the week, it's over for you. We're talking about guilds in excess of pulling down 100m a week on the conquest boards competing with one another.

 

The rest of us will just watch from the sidelines, knowing we can't even hope to get to 10th place on any of the boards no matter which conquest it is or how many planets are out there.

It's over for us.

 

in my opinion the top 10 guilds into a yield shall have titles, the first one can get the planet ok but titles shall be availible for all top 10 guilds. That's my opinion and i saying it in quality of a large guild leader who can get planets whenever i am. I am sure that this is not the solution , 3 guilds can get planets weekly and every time the same guilds take them. I started feel ashamed to get planets and atack large yield to give other guilds the chance to get planets from time to time. Infortunetly there are guilds who pretend they are the "light side" but all that they are doing is to block titles especially large yield ones away from all of the other guilds. BW surely need to make something to fix this.

 

My opinion, please don't hate it. There are people who speaking very dirty in forums if they are not agree with someone and surely there will be someone for me too. If you're not agree please argue but don't insult.

Thank you and a lovely day

The rest of us will just watch from the sidelines, knowing we can't even hope to get to 10th place on any of the boards no matter which conquest it is or how many planets are out there.

It's over for us.

 

My apology in advance if I say something that was already said, because I haven't read the whole thread.

I understand your viewpoint on this though, and you have a valid point.

My disagreement is only that I do not hate or dislike big guilds, because I have seen how much work and dedication goes into maintaining them. Lately though, due to the abuse of Ninja inviting, I can see the other side of that argument as well. It's not pretty But hopefully that will be dealt with very soon.

 

It's most definitely not easy for the mods of these forums to maintain their sanity while dealing with all of us, but in the end hopefully something good will come out of it all. We can but hope

 

A possible solution IMHO might be what I suggested in another thread and was also suggested by others. I am sure there will be other issues that will come up even when removing planetary tags, but how else do we as a community "fight" this ego driven insanity?

 

1. Remove Planetary tags that currently displays the current guild that won that planet and replace it with the faction that won it.

2. Action those accounts/players/guilds that continues to disregard the TOS instead of punishing everyone.

3. Please don't touch any of the Conquest Objectives.

4. (have to throw this in here <g>) Create a neutral faction for Smugglers and BH's

My apology in advance if I say something that was already said, because I haven't read the whole thread.

I understand your viewpoint on this though, and you have a valid point.

My disagreement is only that I do not hate or dislike big guilds, because I have seen how much work and dedication goes into maintaining them.

 

Things have changed since that was posted in 2017. Back then, only the guilds that made it into the Top 10 got any conquest reward, so mega guilds were much more of an issue. Nowadays it's just about the ninja guild invites and having to join a mega guild with an alt to get the conqueror achievements/titles.

Things have changed since that was posted in 2017. Back then, only the guilds that made it into the Top 10 got any conquest reward, so mega guilds were much more of an issue. Nowadays it's just about the ninja guild invites and having to join a mega guild with an alt to get the conqueror achievements/titles.

 

Aaah, I KNEW I would miss something. Was only 3 years it seems

I remember that time when we had to get on the board to get the rewards. Most of the GM's that used to be the top guilds, are not around anymore. Most left after that last CQ update. Leaving Ghost guilds behind.

 

These new players that now "demands" to re-invent the wheel, probably do not know about this.

 

Even so, I wish there was a way to get rid of all this toxicity we see.

I am sure I am not the only one that don't even want to log into the game anymore.

 

Reading the hatred and absolute disrespect for others and esp., our devs in these forums, tells a sad tale of our current gaming community.

I've always been in a small guild, this feature was never "for us".

 

I agree with this.

 

EDIT.

Should also add I don't have any issue with how conquests are set up now. Achievements mean nothing to me in game. I never look at my own, certainly not going to look at someone else's.

Edited January 23, 2021 by DreadtechSavant