Because that's all Operatives need to do. Acid Blade then hit your attacks. No waiting on procs of any kind. Get in trouble? Stun/Snare while throwing DoTs, LoS and heal up. I've seen and done it multiple times.

 

haha. This isn't your topic. No procs? Throwing dots? LoS? I don't know what class you are thinking of but it's not concealment.

Yup... My valor 98 operative will be put on the shelf before he ever hits elite warlord. AND PROBABLY WITH THIS GAME IF THEY DON'T FIX MY FAVORITE REASON FOR PLAYING!

 

I quite love playstyle but really he useless in wz. I waiting too long, all these nerfs, nerf biochem adrenals and relics etc etc... now time has comes say him good bye. I understanding operative's opening and stunlocking quite frustrated all attacked people, and I approve all these nerfs, when play my other classes...

If there will be Open World PvP, than will be other story... but with current faction imbalance its never happens.

 

No one reason play stealthy dps operative/scoundrel, when there are mostly OP sins/shadows with plenty useful abilities and not such frustrating for attacked players opening and stunlocking...

Because that's all Operatives need to do. Acid Blade then hit your attacks. No waiting on procs of any kind. Get in trouble? Stun/Snare while throwing DoTs, LoS and heal up. I've seen and done it multiple times.

 

acid blade - first off, it can be re-applied over-and-over, but only useful on certain attacks. so if i'm like "acid blade, backstab" and then don't backstab.... then a few gcd's later get to the guy again and "acid blade, backstab". i just wasted energy. tbh, it should be on cd until it is applied or be free if it hasn't been used.

 

no waiting on procs? - collateral damage has a 50% chance to hit. will only hit once every 10 seconds. and if it hits a poisoned target, there's a 100% chance it will grant you a TA. (so basically you have a 50% chance to get a free TA every 10 seconds).

 

yes. LoS and heal up is great if your objective is to stay alive. unfortunately, pvp isn't deathmatch.

acid blade - first off, it can be re-applied over-and-over, but only useful on certain attacks. so if i'm like "acid blade, backstab" and then don't backstab.... then a few gcd's later get to the guy again and "acid blade, backstab". i just wasted energy. tbh, it should be on cd until it is applied or be free if it hasn't been used.

 

no waiting on procs? - collateral damage has a 50% chance to hit. will only hit once every 10 seconds. and if it hits a poisoned target, there's a 100% chance it will grant you a TA. (so basically you have a 50% chance to get a free TA every 10 seconds).

 

yes. LoS and heal up is great if your objective is to stay alive. unfortunately, pvp isn't deathmatch.

 

His point is that assassins (and I'll talk about Deception) need to ramp up some procs before they can really unload. They need the Duplicity proc (more damage and less cost for maul), they need to get off two Voltaic Slashes (increased damage and reduced cost for Shock) and they need as many stacks on the surging charge buff as they can get (maximum of 5).

 

That's entirely true, the first round of burst from an operative happens a lot faster. The difference is, the assassin burst recycles every 15 second-ish, and the assassin also isn't severly punished by blowing all force on a target, because their regen is not tiered. Oh, and none of their burst relies on stealth. What's more, the setup they need is heavily protected: When using the 2s stun from out stealth, they gain:

• the 2 seconds of stun on the target, of course
  
• after that ends, a 70% slow for 3 seconds if I remember correctly
  
• 25% reduced damage for 6 seconds
  
• 50% increased force regen for 6 seconds
  
• both damage reduction and force regen bonus can be triggered at will, out of stealth on a 45s cooldown
  
• Also, the slow in that spec lasts twice as long as its cooldown
  

And while the proc requirement for basically everything can be a pain in the behind, there's one reason assassins still play kinda fluid: Saber Strike and Thrash/Voltaic Slash are flurry attacks, 3 and 2 respectively. So yeah, it won't take all that long to proc those things you need.

his point is that assassins (and i'll talk about deception) need to ramp up some procs before they can really unload. They need the duplicity proc (more damage and less cost for maul), they need to get off two voltaic slashes (increased damage and reduced cost for shock) and they need as many stacks on the surging charge buff as they can get (maximum of 5).

 

That's entirely true, the first round of burst from an operative happens a lot faster. The difference is, the assassin burst recycles every 15 second-ish, and the assassin also isn't severly punished by blowing all force on a target, because their regen is not tiered. Oh, and none of their burst relies on stealth. What's more, the setup they need is heavily protected: When using the 2s stun from out stealth, they gain:

• the 2 seconds of stun on the target, of course
  
• after that ends, a 70% slow for 3 seconds if i remember correctly
  
• 25% reduced damage for 6 seconds
  
• 50% increased force regen for 6 seconds
  
• both damage reduction and force regen bonus can be triggered at will, out of stealth on a 45s cooldown
  
• also, the slow in that spec lasts twice as long as its cooldown
  

and while the proc requirement for basically everything can be a pain in the behind, there's one reason assassins still play kinda fluid: Saber strike and thrash/voltaic slash are flurry attacks, 3 and 2 respectively. So yeah, it won't take all that long to proc those things you need.

 

mroe procs for operative!

Nothing helps against smashers...

Commando with full WH with EWH weapons 1370 Expertise and I still get smashed for 7600 - got the SS to prove it...

 

until they fix Smash nothing will help you...

Seriously? Now teams of stun locking assassins are killing people in a blink of an eye?

 

You knew this day was coming!

Nothing helps against smashers...

Commando with full WH with EWH weapons 1370 Expertise and I still get smashed for 7600 - got the SS to prove it...

 

until they fix Smash nothing will help you...

 

My way of dealing with smash is keep them constantly rooted/stunned so they never actually can get a smash on me. I don't even try to fight them. Just keep running away from them.

Edited December 7, 2012 by RyanReagan

I had no issue with your request at all. My point, far too often many people on these forums will come in and complain about a class and (knowingly, unknowingly) they will lump all of the skills a class is able to perform together. Just saying.

 

I saw a post on here once complaining about Shadows that was the using the fabled 31/31/31 Dual AC spec

I saw a post on here once complaining about Shadows that was the using the fabled 31/31/31 Dual AC spec

 

Operative needs to be 31/31/31 as well. Then at least we could be as useful as a healing bubble sorc.

What does your gear look like? Same with all classes, it gets better with gear. BUT, concealment opers have a lot of min/maxing to do. I'm pretty much all stock right now on mine, 1/2 WH. When 1.6 hits I figure min/max with war hero gear will only take a week or so.

 

I'm also finally working on getting my 2 piece pve set. I put it off for too long.

 

Doesn't matter what his gear looks like. My op has 1300 expertise and since our class doesn't have a -30% aoe damage reduction talent/skill, I still get hit for 6k+ by smash.

 

Smashing takes no skill, I have a jugg, a marauder and a sentinel and smashing is for idiots who can't play a spec that requires skill. They just love seeing high numbers. It must make them feel good about themselves.

 

BW caters to them though, so this thread might as well be directed at a brick wall.

Edited December 7, 2012 by randiesel

Welcome to commando club, bro.

Just a bunch of bad Operatives and Scoundrels complaining...

Just a bunch of bad Operatives and Scoundrels complaining...

 

Full Min/Max'd Operative >>> Chameleon POT5

Full WH Jugg >>>> Shaz'am POT5

 

I can burst someone down on my jugg 3 times as fast as I can on my operative. On top of that specced into smash I can smash twice as twice as fast I can back stab plus its a AOE and not a single target.... Come on BIOWARE FIX THIS!!!!!!!

 

 

Please?

We will not be ignored anymore!!!!

 

BUMP!

 

Bump this if your a OP stand up for the few of us left!

I'm getting ripped apart by smashers. They can build smashes faster than the cd on evasion.

 

Please fix, I'm currently paying to feel worthless in PvP, but don't know how long before I stop paying and take up a new hobby.

 

You get your buff right after they fix Mercenary DPS.

 

/thread

Because that's all Operatives need to do. Acid Blade then hit your attacks. No waiting on procs of any kind. Get in trouble? Stun/Snare while throwing DoTs, LoS and heal up. I've seen and done it multiple times.

 

Lol. Spoken like a true Warrior class.

I thought everyone played a Jug/knigh/sent/mara? Me myslef, i like playing a commando so all 8 smash spec peeps jump to me at once. Makes me feel loved.

Bump this if your a OP stand up for the few of us left!

 

And what about scoundrels scrappers ???

You get your buff right after they fix Mercenary DPS.

 

/thread

 

Merc commando dps is just fine, I get 3k ticks on full auto regular. Its just the other team that has 8 smash/focus spec hitting us for 6-7k. Ahh forgot about the 4-5k dispatch:/ ohh the jesus buffs as well:/ sorry my bad.

LOL. so many people have unsubbed due to gangs of operatives stunlocking everyone .. did you hear? there are metrics...

LOL. so many people have unsubbed due to gangs of operatives stunlocking everyone .. did you hear? there are metrics...

 

I'm hoping you are being sarcastic... but you nailed the point.

 

Lets see... A properly specced Concealment Op gets:

1 - interrupt (with 4 seconds of no use) (every 12 second)

1 - 4 second stun

1 - 8 second AOE mez

1 - 12 second 50% slow

1 - 1.5 second knockdown (only from stealth)

and a sleep that is only used from stealth mostly meant to annoy people

 

A well specced Rage Jug gets:

1 - interrupt (with 4 seconds of no use) (every 8 seconds)

1 - 3 second stun (channeled)

1 - 6 second AOE mez

1 - 9 second AOE 50% slow

1- interrupt with a 2 second root (every 15 seconds)

1 - interrupt with a knockback and 2 second knockdown which resets FCharge

1 - 1 second root (every 15 seconds)

1 - 5 second slow from 60% down to 10% (every 18 seconds)

 

If the Jug is Immortal then CC is even better.

The difference is that Ops have a harder time setting up their CC.

Knights also have better damage, more utility and much better defense.

 

IF ANYTHING... the people unsubbing are because knight/warriors are best in class at everything.

EA/BW screwed this game up at the beginning by making the tank the all-world at everything.

No other MMO has given the tank class anywhere near the damage and cc that these guys get.

Tanks should have strong defense, average offense and very limited cc. (PERIOD)

I'm hoping you are being sarcastic... but you nailed the point.

 

Lets see... A properly specced Concealment Op gets:

1 - interrupt (with 4 seconds of no use) (every 12 second)

1 - 4 second stun

1 - 8 second AOE mez

1 - 12 second 50% slow

1 - 1.5 second knockdown (only from stealth)

and a sleep that is only used from stealth mostly meant to annoy people

 

A well specced Rage Jug gets:

1 - interrupt (with 4 seconds of no use) (every 8 seconds)

1 - 3 second stun (channeled)

1 - 6 second AOE mez

1 - 9 second AOE 50% slow

1- interrupt with a 2 second root (every 15 seconds)

1 - interrupt with a knockback and 2 second knockdown which resets FCharge

1 - 1 second root (every 15 seconds)

1 - 5 second slow from 60% down to 10% (every 18 seconds)

 

If the Jug is Immortal then CC is even better.

The difference is that Ops have a harder time setting up their CC.

Knights also have better damage, more utility and much better defense.

 

IF ANYTHING... the people unsubbing are because knight/warriors are best in class at everything.

EA/BW screwed this game up at the beginning by making the tank the all-world at everything.

No other MMO has given the tank class anywhere near the damage and cc that these guys get.

Tanks should have strong defense, average offense and very limited cc. (PERIOD)

 

They messed with melee quite heavily, not only tanks.

I'm hoping you are being sarcastic... but you nailed the point.

 

IF ANYTHING... the people unsubbing are because knight/warriors are best in class at everything.

EA/BW screwed this game up at the beginning by making the tank the all-world at everything.

No other MMO has given the tank class anywhere near the damage and cc that these guys get.

Tanks should have strong defense, average offense and very limited cc. (PERIOD)

 

Nobody specs Immortal for PvP. PvP tanks are Vengeance hybrids, and they have less CC than hybrid Tankasins.

 

Also, Tanks *should* have heavy close-range CC. Because it's their job to be a pain. They can't kill you, but they must make sure that you don't kill their buddy - via interrupts, debuffs, and control.

 

DPS specs of Warriors don't have hard CC save for Choke (which is channelled) and Push, which is Juggernaut-exclusive and its main purpose is moving the player, not stunning them (2 secs is marginally more than a GCD). Intimidating Roar is a mez (broken by damage).

 

Also, hate to make the example, but WoW. I played till late-TBC, and all tank (assuming you mean classes that can spec tank) classes very strong in an area other than tanking. Geared Arms/Fury Warriors were the scourge of PvP since Vanilla. In WOTLK, geared tank specs dished out excellent burst, along with having several stuns.

Well I'm just hear to bump this because I know bioware will never fix operatives. Tanks do more damage then us whether is a tanksin or a jugg. I heard in 1.6 they are getting rid of the concealment tree all together and replacing it with a new tree. Once you get to the top of the tree the final ability is "silencer". Essentially this ability just lets bioware silence all operatives because they don't matter, and you have a chance to re roll another toon. But that's only if you don't spec into healing... Only thing operatives are allowed to do per bioware.