I believe it does. They nuke the planet, and the planet fights back. So Lal rushes out to a fungal field (because apparently, he wants to be eaten by the worms or something).

I'm conflicted about those books. On one hand, they're very interesting, and I like them. On the other hand, they have the worst ending I've come across in sci fi books, and their vision for the future of man is utterly abhorrent.

Much easier when I can simply root for Godzilla to destroy Japan.

I hate the argument "The Empire has to lose anyway" because it undermines the most important part of any struggle: Tension. Just because in THREE THOUSAND YEARS the Empire is long gone doesn't mean they have to fall within our character's lifetimes or so one-sidedly for that matter. To do that is bad story telling because:

1) It would make the Empire not even a real threat and not worth dealing with, making the whole story worthless.

2) As a bi-faction MMO, the lack of any worth while victories makes those of us playing the Empire feel all of our efforts have been for nothing, and those on the Republic see the us as a joke.

& 3) If the Republic wins within the span of the game's life/timeline, it's over. There's nothing to carry on.

Sure, EVENTUALLY there's going to be no more Empire, but give this war more tug-of-war type wins/loses rather than hand everything to the Republic.

The Republic coming out ahead shouldn't come as any surprise to anyone. The theme of Star Wars in general is that the Sith can't get out of their own way enough of the time to pull it together and score a solid win against the Republic for a lasting period of time. If you look at all the class stories, the Sith had a lock throughout Ch 2 until six events changed the course of the war:

1. Beginning with in-fighting between Sith Lords that diverted forces from the war with the Repulic

2. Imperial Intelligence gets dissolved b/c of the Star Cabal which cripples Imperial Operations on Correlia

3. #2 directly causes the death of several Dark Council members on Correlia

4. Lost power plays result in the death of 2 more Council members (Inquisitor and Warrior story)

5. The fate of the Emperor; possibly dead for real, at the very least crippled, seriously wounded and in hiding. No one knows for sure, which directly led to:

6. Malgus's betrayal, which at the very least diverted even more assets from the war to his own B.S. Lucky for the Empire, that didn't last long.

I mean, the only class story that scores a solid win for the Empire at the end of Ch 3 is the Bounty Hunter, who really only cares about the paycheck at the end of the day. The three other classes are focused on their own mess having nothing to do with the Republic. The war is a distraction from their own goals. That's the problem, and always has been.

So, the Empire is left with no true leader, no Intel, massive casualties from Core World operations which makes them pull out, and a Dark Council down by 1/2 at least. That's even before the Dread Masters return and the Hutt Cartel seizes power.

What a mess. All due to the Empire's ineptitude.

Does that mean they won't pull out another win in the short term? No. We will likely see a "The Empire Strikes Back" Scenario for Chapter 4, after ROTHC, which is basically filler until Bioware gets serious about the next chapter for player stories. I would imagine once the Dark Council re-forms with new members, they'll get good and mad about their crushing defeat. They'll be forced to rally their forces, come up with some kind of Intelligence organization again and push hard against the republic. Saresh is looking for a war and I'm pretty sure she'll get one. I would also look for major strife within the Jedi Council; that seems to be the only way the Empire ever gets a foot in the door. Not that it ever lasts...

So I wouldn't worry too much. All the Republic stories end with your character sitting pretty and the Empire on the run. That won't last forever. It wouldn't make for interesting play.

The Empire had been winning the war for nearly 30 years before the treaty, THEN that came along and the war ended in a truce, leading to the 10-year cold war. When it started again, The Empire was winning through Act 1 and 2.

Do not whine about losing now. It's about damn time the Republic got it's freaking act together.

The Empire had been winning the war for nearly 30 years before the treaty, THEN that came along and the war ended in a truce, leading to the 10-year cold war. When it started again, The Empire was winning through Act 1 and 2.

 

Do not whine about losing now. It's about damn time the Republic got it's freaking act together.

I think most players would prefer to see results from, you know, what they're actually doing in game.

Not , "Yeah, everything you do is irrelevant because the Republic is kicking your face in on every front, but some other characters in background stories set 30 years ago were totally kicking ***!"

I really find Balmorra the most annoying. I'm planning on doing a Consular play through just to figure out how we go from "Rioting breaks out on Coruscant and a humiliated Republic is forced to withdraw from multiple sectors after the revelation that they were supporting the Balmorran resistance in violation of the Treaty' to 'The Jedi knock over the Imperial government of Balmorra and install Republic allies, nobody bats an eyelash."

I think most players would prefer to see results from, you know, what they're actually doing in game.

 

Not , "Yeah, everything you do is irrelevant because the Republic is kicking your face in on every front, but some other characters in background stories set 30 years ago were totally kicking ***!"

 

I really find Balmorra the most annoying. I'm planning on doing a Consular play through just to figure out how we go from "Rioting breaks out on Coruscant and a humiliated Republic is forced to withdraw from multiple sectors after the revelation that they were supporting the Balmorran resistance in violation of the Treaty' to 'The Jedi knock over the Imperial government of Balmorra and install Republic allies, nobody bats an eyelash."

If you picked the Empire because you'd thought you'd win, you might want to go watch the original trilogy again. The situation before "A New Hope was the same as it is here:

The underdogs have been losing incredibly badly for the last 20+ years, but then a string of major victories in a few short years turn the tide (despite numerous setbacks) to set the Empire on the losing side, The Empire losing it's Emperor and most powerful figurehead (Vadar/Malgus) soon after.

So no, I really don't feel any sympathy for those suckers who went Empire and are now mad that their choices mean nothing.

Agreed.

Suck-eeerrrzzzzz.

If you picked the Empire because you'd thought you'd win, you might want to go watch the original trilogy again. The situation before "A New Hope was the same as it is here:

 

The underdogs have been losing incredibly badly for the last 20+ years, but then a string of major victories in a few short years turn the tide (despite numerous setbacks) to set the Empire on the losing side, The Empire losing it's Emperor and most powerful figurehead (Vadar/Malgus) soon after.

 

So no, I really don't feel any sympathy for those suckers who went Empire and are now mad that their choices mean nothing.

I know the Empire is going to lose sometime in the next 3000 years, if Bioware plans for the Republic to just win constantly right now, they shouldn't have bothered making the Empire a playable faction.

"Oh well, in the background fluff that has nothing to do with you the Empire was totally kicking Republic butt, but in the game that you actually get to play and interact with, you're just here to lose constantly." is not a good business strategy.

I mean, you're clearly a fan of the Republic, if the Empire won every major victory and everything you did as a Republic player was irrelevant, would you really be content with, "Oh well, at least I know that in a few thousand years due to events that I don't see or have anything to do with we win eventually anyway." ?

Dunno, but since Malgus is down, the Empire doesn't have anymore a "leader" while the Republic still have Satele; and since you brought the Shan, I thought it would be fun if she turned into the Dark Side.

Oh please.

Malgus was one of the LEAST influential darths in the Sith order.

The only reason he wasn't killed was because he had no power base. People think he was the leader just because he gave out quests....

I really find Balmorra the most annoying. I'm planning on doing a Consular play through just to figure out how we go from "Rioting breaks out on Coruscant and a humiliated Republic is forced to withdraw from multiple sectors after the revelation that they were supporting the Balmorran resistance in violation of the Treaty' to 'The Jedi knock over the Imperial government of Balmorra and install Republic allies, nobody bats an eyelash."

I did and found Balmorra the most wonderful of the planets the Republic won, shortly followed by Corellia. IMO it weren't really the Jedi who knocked over the Imperial government. In the end, it were the Balmorran Resistance. The Empire continued to oppress Balmorra and the people continued to raise up against them.

In the Balmorra Imperial worldquest, there is even dialogue which alludes to that:

PC: "Darth Lachris, you should show the Balmorrans that we are not their enemy."

Lachris: "Thanks for the tip, but I have my own plans with Balmorra."

Darth Lachris should have listened to that.

While the Jedi Consular is crucial on Balmorra, the plan comes from a Balmorran (Tai Cordan) and a Balmorran (Zenith) does most of the work.

On Balmorra and Corellia the Empire assumed that if it would treat the planets a little better than other conquered worlds, the people would welcome them with open arms. Which was a terrible miscalculation. The people started to fight, even after being bashed several times.

(Actually I wouldn't have minded if Ilum was an Imperial victory, but on those two planets it was pretty clear that it always was Republic+the people vs Empire, so the Empire loosing is seems right.)

Also, as I already said, I would really like to see a true imperial planet like Ziost in the future. With the Republic in the offensive, this might actually happen. (Republic can loose then, that wouldn't be a problem. But please break the pattern Empire invades -> Republic drives them back.)

I know the Empire is going to lose sometime in the next 3000 years, if Bioware plans for the Republic to just win constantly right now, they shouldn't have bothered making the Empire a playable faction.

Actually, the Empire has to lose sometime in the next ONE thousand years, not three.

In 2000 BBy-ish, Darth Ruin basically restarts the Sith from scratch after the old Sith are all eradicated. Then his Sith wage a millenium long war, bam, Ruusan Reformations afterwards, then another thousand years from that to the Prequels.

The old Sith, for the established backstory to work, have to be basically eradicated such that almost all records are lost by one thousand odd years in the future (hence the 'New Sith Wars', as those Sith have little to no connection to these Old Sith (we're playing a war during the Old Sith Wars (basically the Great Hyperspace War through to this and everything in between; the Old Sith are those with a direct connection to the original Sith) other than name and basic ideology and, if they're really lucky, finding a stray holocron or tattered parchment here or there).

Admittedly a millenium is still a long time to do things in, but the idea was always that the Sith were stamped out as thoroughly as the Republic thought they were after the New Sith Wars for about as long as the millenium of peace before the Prequels. By the New Sith Wars, the Republic is again thriving, and its hold is again firm over the galaxy, and apparently has been for some time.

So, I'd argue that they have at most a few centuries to lose in, and quite probably less, as centuries-long galaxy-spanning individual wars were pretty unheard of by the time of the New Sith Wars, which was literally constant warfare for a thousand years (with the last three centuries seeing the Republic reduced to the Core and nothing else).

I'd say the evidence points to a decades-long to a century-or-two-long war at best. Still a lot of time to play around with in an MMO timescale (not arguing against that!), but not this huge open gap you're implying.

Not without massive retcons.

In any case, I have to agree that it's fine to have the Republic's war effort gaining steam.

Think of TOR like the Original Trilogy. We're in the full swing of the A New Hope phase, with the 'good guys' gaining momentum and getting big victories after being the underdogs for so long. I wouldn't be surprised if we started hitting The Empire Strikes Back stuff eventually. Then we go to Return of the Jedi.

It's really the kind of arc I'm expecting from this Great Galactic War, as they seem so intent on emulating the films. The tide swings back and forth a few times then comes to a head in a cataclysmic battle that ends it all.

So just wait. Even as a primarily-Republic player, I'm confident the Empire will strike back, and when they do, it's going to be hard, and right where it hurts. Then the tide of the war should swing back and forth and give everyone good periods of time where their faction is on top.

Basically, though, this kind of Republic resurgence is needed from a storytelling point so that the Republic isn't the one crying foul. The Republic gets to strike the early victory, then, well, I'll let someone who was part of a later Empire speak for me:

"You may win the occasional battle against us, Vorrik, but the Empire will always strike back."

―Gilad Pellaeon

Oh please... the Empire represents evil, and in what good story does the evil prevail? The empire is meant to lose because it's full of bad guys, and plot requires them to eventually fail

It sounds to me like you never watched...

...In which the main villain kills the one guy who genuinely knows who he is, gets all of his accomplices offed so they can't contradict him, gets himself granted legal immunity in exchange for useless testimony by a judge who thinks he's just a small time crook, pulls the wool over an FBI agent's eyes with a completely fabricated story while taunting him in a hilariously unsubtle fashion that the agent fails to pick up on, walks out of the police station unharassed, and vanishes into the underworld, never to be anywhere near the clutches of the law again.

It got multiple Academy Awards and is generally recognized as one of the best films of the 90s.

The Republic?

 

I've read much of the spoilers on the new book, Annihilation and it seems to me that the War is shifting in favor of the Republic a little much. It seems like nothing I did with my Imperial characters matter. I was hoping that the War would be close and maybe wouldn't be resolved for centuries considering this takes place over three thousand years before the films and one thousand years before the New Sith Empire in current canon.

 

Or is it just me? I searched the forums and couldn't find a thread like this. I am sorry if I missed any.

I agree a 100% with you. The game is just a year and a half old and they are killing and making the empire lose too fast with out them taking hero casualties and that is taking away the main reason to play as a sith.

I think most players would prefer to see results from, you know, what they're actually doing in game.

 

Not , "Yeah, everything you do is irrelevant because the Republic is kicking your face in on every front, but some other characters in background stories set 30 years ago were totally kicking ***!"

 

I really find Balmorra the most annoying. I'm planning on doing a Consular play through just to figure out how we go from "Rioting breaks out on Coruscant and a humiliated Republic is forced to withdraw from multiple sectors after the revelation that they were supporting the Balmorran resistance in violation of the Treaty' to 'The Jedi knock over the Imperial government of Balmorra and install Republic allies, nobody bats an eyelash."

I couldn't agree with you more.

Yes, given that even when the Empire wins it still loses. I thought Makeb would be different, but judging by the intro in the Republic bonus missions, they will find out what the Empire is after:rolleyes: yay for all my achievements.

That Malcom even sends us back to Makeb to investigate a possible Imperial presence and determine their motives after you literally meet a squad of Imperials in the main story who tell you what they want doesn't exactly fill me with optimism regarding the Republic's chances of thwarting the Empire's plan. Not that it'd take a genius to guess the Empire's probably not on Makeb for the tourism industry and scenic views.

Republic high command acts like it doesn't know which way is up half the time.

Even though Imps get Isotope-5, the Hutt-Rep alliance should basically mean the end of the Empire, regardless how "uber" Isotope-5 is. That alone wouldn't be enough to go against Rep and the Hutts, not to mention the fact that the Empire is still recovering from major blows (half of Council killed, Emperor basically irrelevant ATM etc)

Of course it won't happen since the game needs to keep going, but the Hutt Alliance is really BIG asset to Rep

Well, after playing the whole Maked storyline, I think it's a good thing, I mean, if it's a war that last centuries it should be due to the facts that the opponents are of more or less equal strenght.

Besides, the whole Resistance vs Empire gets old after a while, let the Empire be the underdog for a moment, I'm sure we'll get plenty enough of plot twists in the future.

Even though Imps get Isotope-5, the Hutt-Rep alliance should basically mean the end of the Empire, regardless how "uber" Isotope-5 is. That alone wouldn't be enough to go against Rep and the Hutts, not to mention the fact that the Empire is still recovering from major blows (half of Council killed, Emperor basically irrelevant ATM etc)

 

Of course it won't happen since the game needs to keep going, but the Hutt Alliance is really BIG asset to Rep

I suspect that Isotope-5 will lead to the appearance of some sort of Death Star equivalent superweapon for the Empire. Unless the writers are really just that bad to not see the ramifications, Darth Marr/the Dark Council apparently decided that whatever Isotope-5 does, it was worth war with the Hutts even in the Empire's current vulnerable state. It's not just some random Sith Lord putting a personal power play ahead of the interests of the Empire.

Fun fact. After completing Scum and Villany, Saresh devotes literally the entire resoures of the Republic towards finding the Dread Masters. Military, SIS, Jedi, you name it. When asked about the Empire, she responds along the lines of 'well, if we're quick, hopefully they won't have time to rebuild whilst we're doing it', which is about as moronicly naive a plan as I've ever heard.

You wanted breathing room to recover? You got it.

I suspect that Isotope-5 will lead to the appearance of some sort of Death Star equivalent superweapon for the Empire. Unless the writers are really just that bad to not see the ramifications, Darth Marr/the Dark Council apparently decided that whatever Isotope-5 does, it was worth war with the Hutts even in the Empire's current vulnerable state. It's not just some random Sith Lord putting a personal power play ahead of the interests of the Empire.

It's gonna be interesting but I agree that however the Empire utilizes Isotope-5, it better turn into something REALLY major. Cause on the other side there's Republic-Hutt alliance which combined, controls great majority of the galaxy along with the most important worlds and practically runs the galactic economy (both legal and illegal markets), has enormous wealth (esp Hutt side) and resources.