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Pyrotech and Advanced Prototype Powertech/Plasmatech and Tactics Vanguard Set Bonus Discussion


EricMusco

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  • Dev Post

Hey everyone,

 

We wanted to take a moment to reach out to the community to collect ideas on set bonuses. We are looking for opinions on current and previous set bonuses as well as concepts for future. This thread will cover Pyrotech and Advanced Prototype Powertechs/Plasmatech and Tactics Vanguards.

 

Note: Our intent is to have set bonuses not increase DPS by more than 5%. Please keep this in mind when posting your suggestions.

 

Current Level 60 Set Bonuses (for reference)

  • 2-Piece: Flaming Fist and Magnetic Blast or Shockstrike and Tactical Surge increase damage dealt by 2% for 15 seconds. Cannot occur more than once every 30 seconds.
  • 4-Piece: Flaming Fist and Rocket Punch's heat is reduced by 2 or Shockstrike and Stockstrike energy cells is reduced by 2.
  • 6-Piece: Activating Flame Burst and Magnetic Blast or Ion Pulse and Tactical Surge will grant Combat Tech's Critical Bonus making one of your next Energy Burst and Immolate or Cell Burst and Fire Pulse critically hit. This effect can't occur more than once every minute.

Cheers, all!

The SWTOR Combat Team

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Is there are particular reason why you guys are looking to change them?

 

By the way at the very least can you make sure that setbonus procs don't share the same icons in the future? Having the 2pc setbonus and the 6pc setbonus sharing proc icons, can get annoying fast, especially in PvP.

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The final set bonus is a large contributor to why we have such high burst damage. I'm curious if this burst damage is what has caused you to not fix the Vanguards terrible survivability in PvP the entire season?

 

As a primary PvP player I've been dying for my Vanguard to see some survivability buffs, playing ranked and spending almost every game running away from the enemy team while trying to do damage before I die is completely boring for me. I'd like to see the class changes the expansion will bring before judging the set bonuses but survivability needs to come from somewhere because our defensive CDs don't prolong death for us any more than a few more seconds if we are lucky.

 

I must say that I don't have so much of a problem in normal warzones with the balance of survivability and dps but as ranked PvP is the focus of any competitive PvP player that is where I focus my attention when it comes to balance.

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Note from the Combat team on this...

 

Is there are particular reason why you guys are looking to change them?

With Knights of the Fallen Empire being just around the corner, we just wanted to give you all a chance to let us know if there are any particular set bonuses that you dislike and give you an opportunity to suggest your ideas for improvement. We are not looking to make drastic changes to the set bonuses currently in game. In fact, if the players of a certain class's role are happy with their current set bonuses, then we are happy to leave those set bonuses intact.

By the way at the very least can you make sure that setbonus procs don't share the same icons in the future? Having the 2pc setbonus and the 6pc setbonus sharing proc icons, can get annoying fast, especially in PvP.

 

This is excellent feedback (which is what we are hoping to read in these threads), and we will look into making the icons more varied and readable for you in the future. Thanks for bringing this to our attention!

Edited by EricMusco
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The final set bonus is a large contributor to why we have such high burst damage. I'm curious if this burst damage is what has caused you to not fix the Vanguards terrible survivability in PvP the entire season?

 

As a primary PvP player I've been dying for my Vanguard to see some survivability buffs, playing ranked and spending almost every game running away from the enemy team while trying to do damage before I die is completely boring for me. I'd like to see the class changes the expansion will bring before judging the set bonuses but survivability needs to come from somewhere because our defensive CDs don't prolong death for us any more than a few more seconds if we are lucky.

 

I must say that I don't have so much of a problem in normal warzones with the balance of survivability and dps but as ranked PvP is the focus of any competitive PvP player that is where I focus my attention when it comes to balance.

 

Its only like that in solo ranked.....PT's should not get survival buffs based around that flawed queue system. With that said, PT's are a hybrid. They are supposed to spend a lot of time in between range and melee which is why they have so many tools that can be used to kite quite well. I miss 2.10 survivability and would trade the shield CD reduction for kolto and would love to have flares returned but overall they have good tools and strong burst. Giving them anymore survivability would be really bad. I think where they stand now in terms of pvp is fine for AP. I'd like to see the current pyro get some buffs though as they are terrible in both pvp and pve.

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Honestly, I don't like having the set bonus tied to some of the resource management. Other than that, the current bonus's are fine.

 

As such, I'd go:

 

Stockstrike + Rocket Puch - energy/heat cost reduced by 2 in the Tactics/AP discipline path (to avoid tanks getting the 13 energy SS/RP

Shockstrike/Flaming Fist - base energy cost reduced to 13

 

4-piece Combat Tech's bonus:

Altered to the old 2-piece of -15 sec CD on Battle Focus and Explosive Fuel

 

Basically, I'd like to see Shoulder Cannon and Battle Focus/Explosive Fuel synched up better, which the old set bonus used to do

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Something I really dislike about the setbonuses currently is there really isn't much diversity in them. Dps gets x% damage for using x ability and x ability makes x ability crit it made it much less individualized per class and just all around boring. And leave very little impact on classes other than you do x% less damage during a fight.
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Note from the Combat team on this...

 

 

With Knights of the Fallen Empire being just around the corner, we just wanted to give you all a chance to let us know if there are any particular set bonuses that you dislike and give you an opportunity to suggest your ideas for improvement. We are not looking to make drastic changes to the set bonuses currently in game. In fact, if the players of a certain class's role are happy with their current set bonuses, then we are happy to leave those set bonuses intact.

 

 

This is excellent feedback (which is what we are hoping to read in these threads), and we will look into making the icons more varied and readable for you in the future. Thanks for bringing this to our attention!

 

Here is some feedback to you, the new sets are better than the old in one way. Because they're more balanced to other classes set bonuses. My only concern about newest Dps sets are that they lack imagination, as long as all bonuses are equally good, but not same benefits.

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Here is some feedback to you, the new sets are better than the old in one way. Because they're more balanced to other classes set bonuses. My only concern about newest Dps sets are that they lack imagination, as long as all bonuses are equally good, but not same benefits.

 

Lack imagination is putting it very mildly.

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I hate the 6 piece set bonus for almost every DPS class. I think the autocrit thing is a poor idea, and it's made worse in AP. That's why so many people whine about AP's burst, is because of the huge DPS you can pump out in its opener due to the guaranteed crit on Energy Burst.

 

My ideal 6 piece set bonus for Combat Tech would be to bring back the old PvE set bonus of 8% increased damage on Railshot. This would help Pyro's damage out as well as toning down AP's huge burst in its opener (unless you get lucky.)

 

But like I said, I'm not a fan of the autocrit on any set bonus and I think they all need to be changed. It's absolutely broken in specs, such as AP...but also for Marksman snipers. You shouldn't be allowed two guaranteed almost 20k hits per minute, which is exactly what you have with the way Laze Target works with their 6-piece.

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I hate the 6 piece set bonus for almost every DPS class. I think the autocrit thing is a poor idea, and it's made worse in AP. That's why so many people whine about AP's burst, is because of the huge DPS you can pump out in its opener due to the guaranteed crit on Energy Burst.

 

My ideal 6 piece set bonus for Combat Tech would be to bring back the old PvE set bonus of 8% increased damage on Railshot. This would help Pyro's damage out as well as toning down AP's huge burst in its opener (unless you get lucky.)

 

But like I said, I'm not a fan of the autocrit on any set bonus and I think they all need to be changed. It's absolutely broken in specs, such as AP...but also for Marksman snipers. You shouldn't be allowed two guaranteed almost 20k hits per minute, which is exactly what you have with the way Laze Target works with their 6-piece.

 

Well good thing you're the minority because the autocrits are the best part of all the sets.

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Something I really dislike about the setbonuses currently is there really isn't much diversity in them. Dps gets x% damage for using x ability and x ability makes x ability crit it made it much less individualized per class and just all around boring. And leave very little impact on classes other than you do x% less damage during a fight.

 

That's the point. Pre-3.0 set bonuses were garbage for some classes and amazing for others (15% increased crit chance on RS vs 5 extra energy). It's better that they are the very similar across the board as it makes balance easier.

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Well good thing you're the minority because the autocrits are the best part of all the sets.

 

He's not saying that the autocrit isn't useful... he's criticizing it from a design perspective. Of course they're strong; that doesn't mean they're well designed.

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He's not saying that the autocrit isn't useful... he's criticizing it from a design perspective. Of course they're strong; that doesn't mean they're well designed.

 

That and its significantly stronger on certain disciplines:

e.g. Tactics has it used on a surge-boosted ability with an effective cooldown of 24 seconds, so you know the bonus is going to be significant.

 

Vigilance, on the other hand, uses its auto-crit ability every 9 seconds, and doesn't get a surge boost for it. Watchman only uses it every 6 seconds and misses out on a surge boost. Ruffian spams the hell out of its auto-crit ability and gets no surge boosts. How are these supposed to compete with the raw power of an auto-crit cell burst?

 

Those abilities are going to be 9-10k, where as Cell Burst is 14+k when it crits - meaning that AP gets a significanlty better benefit out of this.

 

THE SOLUTION

 

Make the cooldown of the crit boost relative to the power of it. Try to make the auto-crit provide the same power benefit for every spec. And if a spec lacks a surge boost on its auto-crit, include a 30% surge boost to the auto-crit as well

 

BOOM

6-piece fixed.

 

For reference, the DPS increase of Cell Burst/Energy Burst's auto-crit is about 1.8%, which puts it on par with the old +8% rail shot damage, but the rail shot damage boost didn't translate as well into old Tactics - while the new auto-crit fire pulse does translate well into plasmatech.

 

All we gotta do is get the auto-crits balanced out to ~1.8%. Or, as I'd prefer it to be, auto-crit TD instead of CB, which means we'd want the auto-crit bonus to be ~1.2% more DPS (plus changing it to TD will tone down some of the scary burst by removing 4k damage from the auto-crit)

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I hate the 6 piece set bonus for almost every DPS class. I think the autocrit thing is a poor idea, and it's made worse in AP. That's why so many people whine about AP's burst, is because of the huge DPS you can pump out in its opener due to the guaranteed crit on Energy Burst.

 

Removing the autocrit doesn't remove any of the burst. It just screws over quality of life. Less RNG is always a good thing.

 

Also people have been whining about PT burst since 1.0, removing the autocrit isn't going to stop them.

Edited by Zoom_VI
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The more I look at the set bonuses the lazier they feel for dps. 2piece increases damage by 2% for x time on x cd, 6piece use x ability to proc an auto crit for ability z on a y cd(or a variation there in). The only really interesting or varying set bonus for dps is the 4 piece and it's a kerfuffle:

 

For Vanguards/powertechs It's a miniscule 2energy less for our ST.

For Snipers/gunslingers; Reduces the cooldown of Target Acquired or Illegal Mods by 15 seconds, and activating either ability restores 15 energy.

For Sent/mar; Reduces the cooldown of Frenzy or Valorous Call by 15 seconds. Additionally, activating Berserk or Zen increases all damage dealt by 3% for 10 seconds.

for sorc/sage; Reduces cost of Lightning Strike and Force Lightning or Disturbance and Telekinetic Throw by 2 and reduces the cooldown of Polarity Shift or Mental Alacrity by 15 seconds.

for Shadows/Sins; Reduces the cooldown of Recklessness or Force Potency by 15 seconds.

for Jugg/guard; Reduces the minimum range of Saber Throw by 10 meters.

For mando/merc; Power Surge or Tech Override's cooldown is reduced by 5 seconds.

for scoundrel/ops; Backstab and Lethal Strike or Backblast and Point Blank Shot's energy cost is reduced by 2.

 

That's

3 that reduce the cost of an ability by 2

4 that reduce the cd of a offensive boost

1 that gets an additional 3% damage window

and 1 That is essentially necessary for their rotation [which should be baseline and not wasting a set bonus space]

 

It's almost like the designers couldn't think of a way to do something interesting here. But that may not have been their fault really. They have to make set bonuses that don't make it too overpowered but at the same time make it a nice treat for those that get them. I'm all for getting at least two of the set bonuses 'equal' across the board but I think that if they are going to have three set bonuses why not make the last one interesting?

 

This suggestion would probably require a change to the current system so call it crazy-

I would say make the third set bonus have an option for player preferential choice similar to the utilities. Make it open up a new little choice window in utilities where you can spend a 'set bonus point' and pick from a few balanced options.

e.g[using the existing ones as a stand in but a little tweeked]:

option 1: Reduce the cost for x ability by x amount.

option 2: Reduce the cd of a offensive boost by x seconds.

option 3: gain an additional +x% damage window for x seconds on an icd.

option 4: gain an additional +x% alacrity window for x seconds on an icd.

 

Or heck, even doing interesting things that utilities already can present with their choices.

This way it not only makes it worthwhile to get your set bonuses but also presents the players with a new way of customizing their experience. At first glance it may seem that the additional windows are favorable but that cd of battle focus could present better synergy with shoulder cannon for nicer burst, or that cost reduction (which should be more than that measly 2 if this was implemented) could allow you to use less hammer shots every few rotations.

In this example:

Options 1 and 2 are more stoic and give a rotational easement or set burst advantage.

While options 3 and 4 may present a small rng opportunity like the proc relics.

 

TL;DR: Make at least one of the set bonuses interesting and unique and possibly an opportunity for personal preference.

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The more I look at the set bonuses the lazier they feel for dps. 2piece increases damage by 2% for x time on x cd, 6piece use x ability to proc an auto crit for ability z on a y cd(or a variation there in). The only really interesting or varying set bonus for dps is the 4 piece and it's a kerfuffle:

 

For Vanguards/powertechs It's a miniscule 2energy less for our ST.

For Snipers/gunslingers; Reduces the cooldown of Target Acquired or Illegal Mods by 15 seconds, and activating either ability restores 15 energy.

For Sent/mar; Reduces the cooldown of Frenzy or Valorous Call by 15 seconds. Additionally, activating Berserk or Zen increases all damage dealt by 3% for 10 seconds.

for sorc/sage; Reduces cost of Lightning Strike and Force Lightning or Disturbance and Telekinetic Throw by 2 and reduces the cooldown of Polarity Shift or Mental Alacrity by 15 seconds.

for Shadows/Sins; Reduces the cooldown of Recklessness or Force Potency by 15 seconds.

for Jugg/guard; Reduces the minimum range of Saber Throw by 10 meters.

For mando/merc; Power Surge or Tech Override's cooldown is reduced by 5 seconds.

for scoundrel/ops; Backstab and Lethal Strike or Backblast and Point Blank Shot's energy cost is reduced by 2.

 

That's

3 that reduce the cost of an ability by 2

4 that reduce the cd of a offensive boost

1 that gets an additional 3% damage window

and 1 That is essentially necessary for their rotation [which should be baseline and not wasting a set bonus space]

 

It's almost like the designers couldn't think of a way to do something interesting here. But that may not have been their fault really. They have to make set bonuses that don't make it too overpowered but at the same time make it a nice treat for those that get them. I'm all for getting at least two of the set bonuses 'equal' across the board but I think that if they are going to have three set bonuses why not make the last one interesting?

 

This suggestion would probably require a change to the current system so call it crazy-

I would say make the third set bonus have an option for player preferential choice similar to the utilities. Make it open up a new little choice window in utilities where you can spend a 'set bonus point' and pick from a few balanced options.

e.g[using the existing ones as a stand in but a little tweeked]:

option 1: Reduce the cost for x ability by x amount.

option 2: Reduce the cd of a offensive boost by x seconds.

option 3: gain an additional +x% damage window for x seconds on an icd.

option 4: gain an additional +x% alacrity window for x seconds on an icd.

 

Or heck, even doing interesting things that utilities already can present with their choices.

This way it not only makes it worthwhile to get your set bonuses but also presents the players with a new way of customizing their experience. At first glance it may seem that the additional windows are favorable but that cd of battle focus could present better synergy with shoulder cannon for nicer burst, or that cost reduction (which should be more than that measly 2 if this was implemented) could allow you to use less hammer shots every few rotations.

In this example:

Options 1 and 2 are more stoic and give a rotational easement or set burst advantage.

While options 3 and 4 may present a small rng opportunity like the proc relics.

 

TL;DR: Make at least one of the set bonuses interesting and unique and possibly an opportunity for personal preference.

 

This entire post is probably why FFXIV didn't even bother with set bonuses. You try to balance them and they are "boring." You try to make them unique and some classes get shafted. Personally I think the set bonuses are perfectly fine right now but whatever.

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Remove 4 piece and make energy reduction baseline.

 

Then make 4 piece something like this:

 

Activating gut provides a 30 sec buff that makes HiB not only refresh gut's dot, but apply gut's dot to a new target.

 

For plasma, maybe replace with plasmatize.

 

This would be a quality of life change in certain circumstances.

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