TOR has stronger story and lore, but story and lore shouldn't be the reason you're playing an MMO; go read a book.

WoW's gameplay is tighter from 10 years of polish, but I'm tired of the fantasy setting.

Here's hoping that Wildstar has Blizzard's polish with a sci-fi setting.

As far as PvP class balance and PvP in general, despite all the whining to the contrary, PvP in TOR is far better than in WoW.

As far as PvE goes, they're pretty much the same.

The leveling experience is where they depart one another completely. I can actually enjoy leveling in TOR. Where as in WoW, I would rather skinny dip in sulfuric acid than go through another discombobulated level grind.

TOR has stronger story and lore, but story and lore shouldn't be the reason you're playing an MMO; go read a book.

WoW's gameplay is tighter from 10 years of polish, but I'm tired of the fantasy setting.

Here's hoping that Wildstar has Blizzard's polish with a sci-fi setting.

I don't play SWTOR because it's an MMO...I play it because it has great story and lore.

Telling people to go read a book instead, simply because they don't play a game for the same reasons you do is absurd.

WoW is a much more polished game with 10 years worth of experience in honing their MMO into a juggernaut. They freely borrow winning concepts and ideas from other MMOs and adapt them to their own MMO. And they're known as 'the' MMO of MMOs.

That said:

TOR is much better at telling a story, both personal and overarching. As you go through the Class stories, you find yourself realizing that each and every story in there is intertwined in the background, that what you do doesn't just impact 'your' story, but all the other Class stories as well.

TOR has better style. Whether it's the Agent giggle sound effect when they Snipe someone, or how Lightning Sorcs just look amazingly cool when they're in full rotation, there's more style to combat in TOR than in WoW.

And, within the last year, the gear sets for most of the Classes have become vastly better than anything I've seen in WoW, aside from a few really choice Warlock sets in WoW.

While WoW stole the idea of Transmog from TOR's adaptive armor concept, TOR maintains a lead in that area in a big way.

TOR developers seem far more intimately connected to the playerbase as opposed to WoW's developing team, which seems to have its own idea of what's necessary for the game and hardly seem concerned enough to even address player concerns regarding balance issues.

TOR seems to be putting out new content at a far quicker rate than WoW. It being the end of their MOP expansion, it's estimated that they'll be doing the last OP/Raid for at least 9 months before the next expansion hits their PTR and they've no plans to put anything out before then. Whereas, TOR has pushed a bunch of content patches out with new OPs, FPs, daily zones and PVP warzones, as well as Ranked PVP.

And with Galactic Starfighter coming in a month, it's safe to say that TOR has a far greater ability to release content at a quicker pace and, thus, keep its playerbase entertained and logging in. I speak from personal experience here, as I got vastly bored of the last Raid in MOP and didn't fancy putting 6 toons through the same content every week.

To me, it's a hands down victory for TOR. Else, why would I be here now?

WoW is a much more polished game with 10 years worth of experience in honing their MMO into a juggernaut. They freely borrow winning concepts and ideas from other MMOs and adapt them to their own MMO. And they're known as 'the' MMO of MMOs.

 

That said:

 

TOR is much better at telling a story, both personal and overarching. As you go through the Class stories, you find yourself realizing that each and every story in there is intertwined in the background, that what you do doesn't just impact 'your' story, but all the other Class stories as well.

 

TOR has better style. Whether it's the Agent giggle sound effect when they Snipe someone, or how Lightning Sorcs just look amazingly cool when they're in full rotation, there's more style to combat in TOR than in WoW. Agent giggle was removed for almost a full year because of complaints, and then reinstated. Hard to call that superior style unless it's strictly opinion.

 

And, within the last year, the gear sets for most of the Classes have become vastly better than anything I've seen in WoW, aside from a few really choice Warlock sets in WoW. Opinion, I'm not particularly happy with the huge backpacks and mickey mouse ears/horns that have come out recently.

 

While WoW stole the idea of Transmog from TOR's adaptive armor concept, TOR maintains a lead in that area in a big way. Wow was doing transmog on live servers as of September 19th, 2011 before SWTOR even launched. SWTOR was in closed beta at that point, but transmog was developed earlier that year and tested for awhile. Get your facts straight.

TOR developers seem far more intimately connected to the playerbase as opposed to WoW's developing team, which seems to have its own idea of what's necessary for the game and hardly seem concerned enough to even address player concerns regarding balance issues. CMs in TOR barely respond and almost never in a timely fashion. Since Cataclysm, multiple WoW CMs and developers communicate openly thru the forums & twitter daily, test server PVP and interviews. A cursory sweep thru MMO-Champion's front page will usually show a page or two of highlight questions, but there's objectively way more communication on Blizzard's part over BioWare's.

TOR seems to be putting out new content at a far quicker rate than WoW. It being the end of their MOP expansion, it's estimated that they'll be doing the last OP/Raid for at least 9 months before the next expansion hits their PTR and they've no plans to put anything out before then. Blizzcon announcements on Friday will likely prove you wrong. Whereas, TOR has pushed a bunch of content patches out with new OPs, FPs, daily zones and PVP warzones, as well as Ranked PVP. WoW has put out more raid encounters and dungeons in the one year of Mists of Pandaria alone than the two years SWTOR has been out. This is fact. Ranked PVP has been running for 14 seasons, three new battlegrounds, additional daily areas, scenarios, pet battles. You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

And with Galactic Starfighter coming in a month, it's safe to say that TOR has a far greater ability to release content at a quicker pace and, thus, keep its playerbase entertained and logging in. Again, you have no clue how much content WoW has put out in the past year. I speak from personal experience here, as I got vastly bored of the last Raid in MOP and didn't fancy putting 6 toons through the same content every week. And how does that differ from raiding in SWTOR?

 

To me, it's a hands down victory for TOR. Else, why would I be here now?

If it wasn't painfully obvious that you don't know anything about WoW, your opinions of its current state might be valid. As of this post, they're not. You can say "I hate fantasy MMOs," or "I dislike WoW's playerbase or art style," and I wouldn't question you, but you have no idea what happens on the other side of the fence, and it makes you look like a blind raving fanboy.

I don't play SWTOR because it's an MMO...I play it because it has great story and lore.

 

Telling people to go read a book instead, simply because they don't play a game for the same reasons you do is absurd.

Games should be played because they have fun gameplay. If you like the story, that's gravy on the side. If there's no gameplay, it ends up being a visual novel, and they're not commercial viable outside of Japan. Or without a lot of sexual elements.

personal opinion?

its subjective.

for some people WoW is better than TOR. for others TOR is better than WoW.

me, I prefer TOR. and I used to play WoW since BC. occasionally, I miss my old characters just around the time they offer free days with new content. I enjoy it for few days, resub and realize I'm bored a week later. I've yet to be bored in TOR. although. I freely admit that part of it is due to me being in a guild I enjoy in TOR, while my WoW guild is just... there for the guild perks. so its lonely. even with all the people around, its damn lonely in WoW for me. and raiding in LFR is like pale imitation, interspersed with too many ************ ******es.

personal opinion?

 

its subjective.

 

for some people WoW is better than TOR. for others TOR is better than WoW.

 

me, I prefer TOR. and I used to play WoW since BC. occasionally, I miss my old characters just around the time they offer free days with new content. I enjoy it for few days, resub and realize I'm bored a week later. I've yet to be bored in TOR. although. I freely admit that part of it is due to me being in a guild I enjoy in TOR, while my WoW guild is just... there for the guild perks. so its lonely. even with all the people around, its damn lonely in WoW for me. and raiding in LFR is like pale imitation, interspersed with too many ************ ******es.

I have a friend in the same situation, and it's a very reasonable opinion. He thoroughly enjoyed WoW with his old guild, but when they eventually dissolved, the content was less fun than when he was in a regular group of players he liked. He prefers TOR now, and being in a guild he likes is a big part of that for him.

Games should be played because they have fun gameplay. If you like the story, that's gravy on the side. If there's no gameplay, it ends up being a visual novel, and they're not commercial viable outside of Japan. Or without a lot of sexual elements.

I never said SWTOR had no gameplay...nor did I say I don't care for fun gameplay.

My point was that fun gameplay isn't all that I look for in a game. That's all.

I never said SWTOR had no gameplay...nor did I say I don't care for fun gameplay.

 

My point was that fun gameplay isn't all that I look for in a game. That's all.

Then maybe we feel the same. It's a hard point to articulate, and it's usually worst on the BioWare general forums.

I really loved WoW up until Cata. But at that point, after playing since 2004, I burned out on all things fantasy: Spells, swords, shields, horses, castles, Horde, Alliance. All of it.

Thankfully, SWTOR, is the same kind of hotbar MMO, but it has guns, lightsabers, ships, etc. It's sci-fi versus a pixelated RenFair. It's exactly what I needed. So I love TOR, and I won't be going anywhere else unless they can do sci-fi better than this.

I played WoW from August 8th 2006 to about May 14th 2011, and to be honest I enjoyed right until Cataclysm came out.

For two reasons: first, Warcaft had an amazing lore behind it, pulling from different inspirations while adding their own little flair, second; was the end game content, while I never made it to end-game in vanilla (although I wish I had) I was always satisfied with the end-game content of BC and WoTLK, not so much with Cataclysm.

Despite, all that time and effort (I had over a year played on two different characters) I still left WoW after Cataclysm, not because it was "too easy" but because WoW no longer cared about the loyal subscriber. I used to give a crap about the game and when Cataclysm wnet live and ignored everything they had established in the last 2 expansions that's when I was fed up. I let my sub run out and never even considered looking back.

I left SWTOR a few months after release due to the fact that it's update progression was slow, to say the least, but for the most part it was due to not having time to play MMOs. After leaving I tried a few others, DCUO, EVE, GW2, I even tried DnDO (Dungeons & Dragons Online) none of which ever held my interest long enough to be committed to them. I re-subbed SWTOR about 6 weeks ago and have manged to see some of the end-game that was added with RotHC and have been really enjoying the new content. Not only because its challenging and interesting but because there is a story they have been building for a while throughout the end-game content that I feel engaged with.

Conclusion:

SWTOR is better than WoW, because SWTOR's ability to adhere to and evolve their story is something that Blizzard completely disregarded.

I'm just a bit amused at how many of us left around Cataclysm. it was the expansion that kinda killed the fun of the game for me. even though at the time I was still in a guild that I mostly enjoyed, the content itself was frustrating and rarely fun for me. in part of was because of the changes to how speccing worked (specifically being tied to a single tallent tree until you put enough points into it to reach keystone talent)

coming back for a bit in pandaria, well... it kinda exacerbated the issue

one of my favorite things to do was messing around with various hybrid specs, see what I could come up with that played well in different situations.

I can still do that in TOR (at least half my characters level/solo as hybrids) but nowadays, there's really not much to pick in WoW. you chose your specialization and you are just given abilities. sure, you can pick your glyphs and those other tier things, but its just not the same, because in the end - I'm still stuck with a specific play style with little to no changes I can make to it.

I'm just a bit amused at how many of us left around Cataclysm. it was the expansion that kinda killed the fun of the game for me. even though at the time I was still in a guild that I mostly enjoyed, the content itself was frustrating and rarely fun for me. in part of was because of the changes to how speccing worked (specifically being tied to a single tallent tree until you put enough points into it to reach keystone talent)

coming back for a bit in pandaria, well... it kinda exacerbated the issue

 

one of my favorite things to do was messing around with various hybrid specs, see what I could come up with that played well in different situations.

 

I can still do that in TOR (at least half my characters level/solo as hybrids) but nowadays, there's really not much to pick in WoW. you chose your specialization and you are just given abilities. sure, you can pick your glyphs and those other tier things, but its just not the same, because in the end - I'm still stuck with a specific play style with little to no changes I can make to it.

I still disagree with that assessment of the current talent system. When you go thru SWTOR's talent trees, you get 3-4 active spec abilities and a bunch of HP/crit % passives, and a few tweaks to the active abilites you just got(which is equivalent to glyphing for an ability you like). WoW's current talent trees offer you 3-4 active new abilities, often ones that weren't available to all specs before, and cuts the passive points on the inbetweeny levels. Case in point; A feral druid can take treants(which now behave differently as a feral than as a boomkin) and typhoon, both situational spells that were previously the hallmark of being Balance. All specs of Rogues can enjoy Preparation and Shadowstep, without being pigeonholed into Subtlety. The classes that had movespeed bonuses like Hunter and Paladin can use them in any spec as well.

The hybridizing is better than it ever was before, they've just changed the interface and removed the illusion of many divergent options that trees gave. I've explained it to a friend this was verbally when he complained he hated the trees and while my argument made sense to him, he still said he didn't like the way it looked or felt. Which is a valid complaint, and more accurate than broadly saying the talent system sucks. The presentation of it sucks to your traditions and memories. I think it's still a work in progress with room to improve, but way better than the trees were before. I definitely think the levelling process loses something by not having a "point-per-level" breadcrumb of power-creep that makes you feel like you're building your character, but I recognize that it was an illusion.

I still disagree with that assessment of the current talent system. When you go thru SWTOR's talent trees, you get 3-4 active spec abilities and a bunch of HP/crit % passives, and a few tweaks to the active abilites you just got(which is equivalent to glyphing for an ability you like). WoW's current talent trees offer you 3-4 active new abilities, often ones that weren't available to all specs before, and cuts the passive points on the inbetweeny levels. Case in point; A feral druid can take treants(which now behave differently as a feral than as a boomkin) and typhoon, both situational spells that were previously the hallmark of being Balance. All specs of Rogues can enjoy Preparation and Shadowstep, without being pigeonholed into Subtlety. The classes that had movespeed bonuses like Hunter and Paladin can use them in any spec as well.

 

The hybridizing is better than it ever was before, they've just changed the interface and removed the illusion of many divergent options that trees gave. I've explained it to a friend this was verbally when he complained he hated the trees and while my argument made sense to him, he still said he didn't like the way it looked or felt. Which is a valid complaint, and more accurate than broadly saying the talent system sucks. The presentation of it sucks to your traditions and memories. I think it's still a work in progress with room to improve, but way better than the trees were before. I definitely think the levelling process loses something by not having a "point-per-level" breadcrumb of power-creep that makes you feel like you're building your character, but I recognize that it was an illusion.

then we'll agree to disagree. because I cannot get key talents from several different specs.

my main was a shaman. I used to level as resto or hybrid on here. nowadays, I cannot solo as resto at all, its like pulling teeth, I have to go elemental (why not the other spec? because it requires a whole separate set of gear and completely different playstyle, while at least I can reuse my resto set for ele) I use to seamlessly shift between cat and bear as needed, but not so anymore.

the little bonus abilities I get through their "pick one talent per tier" tree don't offer much of a versatility. I cannot mix and match talents anymore. key abilities are set for me.

the only character that sorta kinda maybe felt like a semi hybrid, was my mystweaver monk and even then, it just wasn't quite the same.

I used to play around with my hunters spec like crazy. not.. anymore. especially since a lot of time, abilities that you have to pick from are not much of a choice at all. whatever spec you may play, you still pick the same one, because others are just not good.

that you tell me some of those abilities i can use as any spec? is not a positive for me.

but to each their own. naturally. some people prefer the way WoW does things now. I preferred the way they did it pre cata.

If it wasn't painfully obvious that you don't know anything about WoW, your opinions of its current state might be valid. As of this post, they're not. You can say "I hate fantasy MMOs," or "I dislike WoW's playerbase or art style," and I wouldn't question you, but you have no idea what happens on the other side of the fence, and it makes you look like a blind raving fanboy.

 

Games should be played because they have fun gameplay. If you like the story, that's gravy on the side. If there's no gameplay, it ends up being a visual novel, and they're not commercial viable outside of Japan. Or without a lot of sexual elements.

While i absolutely agree with the first part of your post, the second part is... Let's just say, i would correct the "games should be played because they have fun gameplay" part to "games should be played because they are fun". There are games with almost no (or absolutely no) gameplay, the so-called adventure games, which have their own niche and fanbase.

The recent game of such sort i've played was The Stanley Parable. A great thing, if you ask me.

Also, back in the days i was a big fan of the "Petka and Vasily Ivanovich" game series. Great russian humor and atmosphere (at least for a kid whom i was back then). Almost no gameplay, but the story and immersion were so strong, that noone cared about it.

when Cataclysm wnet live and ignored everything they had established in the last 2 expansions that's when I was fed up.

Could you please elaborate on what was ignored? I honestly do not understand.

SWTOR is better than WoW, because SWTOR's ability to adhere to and evolve their story is something that Blizzard completely disregarded.

That's strange. Starting from WotLK, i have a strong impression that Blizzard are actually working pretty hard on evolving their game's story. The best example of it is MoP, which is a one big story being told to us, a story which starts from the very first quests on the new continent and ends with the final raid boss being defeated.

While i absolutely agree with the first part of your post, the second part is... Let's just say, i would correct the "games should be played because they have fun gameplay" part to "games should be played because they are fun". There are games with almost no (or absolutely no) gameplay, the so-called adventure games, which have their own niche and fanbase.

The recent game of such sort i've played was The Stanley Parable. A great thing, if you ask me.

Also, back in the days i was a big fan of the "Petka and Vasily Ivanovich" game series. Great russian humor and atmosphere (at least for a kid whom i was back then). Almost no gameplay, but the story and immersion were so strong, that noone cared about it.

A game like Monkey Island may not be difficult to play as far as reflexes or response time, but there's problem solving and puzzles that constitute gameplay. On the flipside, a game like Dragon's Lair is not very deep but is all about timing and reactions to sudden stimuli; this is another good game with story. I don't feel like The Stanley Parable is a very good "game" of walking thru corridors. At the very least Portal made you solve puzzles to get to the next creepy wall peeled open or GLaDoS sound clip, and there was actiony segments and bossfights. That's a debate on forums across the web however, some people love it, some don't. I understand where you're coming from and you make articulate points, so kudos to you as a forum poster.

While i absolutely agree with the first part of your post, the second part is... Let's just say, i would correct the "games should be played because they have fun gameplay" part to "games should be played because they are fun". There are games with almost no (or absolutely no) gameplay, the so-called adventure games, which have their own niche and fanbase.

The recent game of such sort i've played was The Stanley Parable. A great thing, if you ask me.

Also, back in the days i was a big fan of the "Petka and Vasily Ivanovich" game series. Great russian humor and atmosphere (at least for a kid whom i was back then). Almost no gameplay, but the story and immersion were so strong, that noone cared about it.

 

 

Could you please elaborate on what was ignored? I honestly do not understand.

 

 

That's strange. Starting from WotLK, i have a strong impression that Blizzard are actually working pretty hard on evolving their game's story. The best example of it is MoP, which is a one big story being told to us, a story which starts from the very first quests on the new continent and ends with the final raid boss being defeated.

hold on hold ON.

Petka and Vasiliy Ivanovich game series?

such thing exists?

how the hell did I not know? where can I get it?

(unless you grew up on Chapaev and Petka book, movie and countless jokes, you might not understand why I'm so excited)

sorry for a slight derail

P.S. I will never EVER forgive Blizzard writers for what they did to both Jaina and Thrall.

P.P.S. edited to add. portal's gameplay was amazing. genius way to take simple concepts and turn give them such complexity and variations

While WoW stole the idea of Transmog from TOR's adaptive armor concept, TOR maintains a lead in that area in a big way. Wow was doing transmog on live servers as of September 19th, 2011 before SWTOR even launched. SWTOR was in closed beta at that point, but transmog was developed earlier that year and tested for awhile. Get your facts straight.

WoW stole it from Aion, pretty much a direct copy paste in the way the system works.

Though knowing MMO's, Aion probably got it from some predecessor that I never played (or can't remember).

Did wow go free to play in less than a year of launch?

at the time WoW came out? idea of f2p payment model was not exactly wide spread to put it mildly. there were also not nearly as many MMO's to chose from and none as casual friendly as WoW.

by the time SWTOR came out - it had example of LOTRO and DDO in front of them - LOTRO especially practically doubled their profits after going "f2p" with optional sub.

f2p =/= failure

last but not least - people forget how absolutely awful WoW launch was. how buggy the game was for a long long time, inaccessible, with ridiculous queues, etc etc. they also forget that there wasn't enough content to get you to lvl 60, so people literally had to grind mobs here and there.

but at the time, it was expected. and at the time, there weren't as many choices. nowadays? if WoW launched nowadays, the way it did back then? I highly doubt it would have survived even half a year.

WoW stole it from Aion, pretty much a direct copy paste in the way the system works.

Though knowing MMO's, Aion probably got it from some predecessor that I never played (or can't remember).

If you want to go down the chain, Aion got it from LOTRO.

 

they also forget that there wasn't enough content to get you to lvl 60, so people literally had to grind mobs here and there.

 

It was assumed that you'd do instances several times for gear because the quest rewards throughout the game overall were completely useless. That made up the exp for me, personally. level 50-60 was admittedly shallow with the outright questing, but there was enough there, it was just all instance quests that were EXTREMELY hard to find, let alone do. I'm probably one of 10 people or less on my server that ever got an Eggscilloscope, the item that freezes eggs in the famous Leeroy Jenkins room to prevent that very scenario from happening.

If you want to go down thechain, Aion got it from LOTRO.

That'd fall into the category of MMO's I never tried - but I figured they got it somewhere.

That'd fall into the category of MMO's I never tried - but I figured they got it somewhere.

they did it best, because you didn't need to visit an NPC to lock graphics on, it was handled with a vanity tab on the character sheet and it kept the graphic item from cluttering up your bank or inventory. LOTRO did a lot of nice QoL innovations, like group phasing and musical instruments first.