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Pay2Win Space Missions ???


Dirtyshadow

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Suggestion for Solutions:

 

  1. REMOVE from Cartel Market ASAP
  2. Add each of the 3 packs as "Rare" in Cartel Packs (A use for them at least)
  3. Remove use of Stabilizers in Schematics to craft
  4. Mail a set to every SUB that is active one complete set (Not every toon)

 

Worse case scenario: Sell all three sets for <500 coins = 1 Monthly Sub (Not the perfect solution)

Edited by dscount
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Gear to be competitive at end game content, beit PvP or PvE needs to stay as an in-game only thing. This is why the Grade 7 Ship stuff is worrysome, because while it can be obtained in game, the cost associated is so out of balance with the cost on the market. Granted, space combat is solo only and is more of a mini-game than anything, it is more of the start of a slippery slope to selling end-game gear.

 

Which at that point, if I can buy my PvP gear from the market, I am done with this game.

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If this bolded part happens, I will unsubscribe from this game and never purchase another Bioware or EA game again. Please clarify your intent with this sentence.

 

Well its already happened with the space junk and its clearly laid out as part of their future business plan.

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Hi everyone,

 

I've spoken to the design team about the issue of Grade 7 ship upgrades and the cost in game (resources and time) versus the cost on the Cartel Market, since this concern was raised by a number of people on our forums.

 

Our Lead Designer for the game, Damion Schubert, has this to say:

 

Unfortunately, there is, in fact, a great disparity between these two costs. We want to apologize for this, as there was a miscommunication internally on how valuable these upgrades were, how challenging they should be to earn, and how fast a player should be able to earn them.

 

We are currently looking at solutions that cause the least amount of frustration for all players affected, while keeping the integrity of both the Cartel Market and the game intact.

 

It is not our intent to make the Cartel Market the “way to play" the game—we want you to feel that both the Cartel Market and earning gear in game are viable options as far as value goes, neither being far more efficient or effective than the other.

 

We truly hope you enjoy the challenge of the new Heroic Space Missions and apologize again for what we hope is a small distraction.

 

I want to reiterate that we are actively looking at solutions and they will be communicated to you as soon as we have a solid plan.

 

Thank you for your patience.

 

 

This certainly sounds like a step in the right direction for SWTOR, or a big step back from the wrong direction, which is very positive news. :)

 

Although Bioware EA have to understand somethings just DO NOT belong on the Cartel Market. :csw_yoda:

Edited by Goretzu
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Well its already happened with the space junk and its clearly laid out as part of their future business plan.

 

Actually, last word from Olhen was that selling end game pve gear and pvp gear was on their list of things to definitely NOT do. The statement here was supposed to be a communication of their intent on space gear, interpreting this ambiguity in such a way would only cause a panic. A request for clarification is in line, fear mongering is not.

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You know... This is not any different than people buying gems, smurf berries, donuts in other social app games to hasten mundane in-game task. And frankly this is something that is acceptable in a lot of those games. Facebook and Zynga does this already. EA has a bunch of games that do this exact same thing already, look at Simpsons Tapped Out for the phone. So I am not surprised about it. And I agree with a lot of people, it does not make you competitive at all, since its just a ship mini-game anyway.
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Wait, so how exactly monetizing at SWTOR works? Guy in charge of it just looks at all avaible stuff, decides "Oh, this would surely sell great in shop! Since players can get it by other means let's slap low price there, and let moeny flow in." and nobody nowhere even checks it, pretty much allowing such cases like this one to happen?

 

This. From the tone of his response it doesn't sound so much "they should cost 150 Fleet comms each." It sounds more like "we meant to charge $20 per item bundle not $5."

 

Which IMO isn't really better at all lol.

 

It's like saying "yeah it takes you a week to grind out your EWH main hand, and yes we put it on the Cartel Market, but we meant to charge you $1000 for it, not $1. It's not pay to win if only the richest players can afford to buy it!"

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The disparity is THEY SHOULDN'T BE ON THE CARTEL MARKET TO BEGIN WITH!

 

*shrug* So says you. Personally, I like 'em being on the market. I just think that the price in comms was way too high; grinding should be a more feasible way to get 'em. (which I'd guess is the "miscommunication". Those comm prices are way out of whack for what you get for 'em and the time it takes to earn 'em)

 

Then again, as I've written already, I also have no problem with them letting us use cartel coins to avoid all sorts of grinding. Some people find the end-game gear grind fun. More do not. A way for those of us who don't care about whether we have the absolute top-tier to quickly gear a toon (particularly an alt, for people who were willing to gear one toon but who don't have the time to do it with a second, even if they wouldn't mind having a geared 50 with a different role or class) enough to at least have a chance at seeing the story-level content in the game we subscribed to wouldn't be the end of the world. Those who want to do the full grind to do all the nightmare modes can still do so and boast of it.

 

Some of y'all are going to object that the grind is the whole point of MMO's. Well, I disagree. I play SWTOR to see the story content while playing with friends, not because I like doing daily missions over and over again so that I can get the gear that will allow met to do story mode ops over and over again in order to get the gear that allows me to do the T1 HM ops over and over again so that I can do the T2 SM ops over and over again...... etc.

 

Don't get me wrong. The endless grind with friends might have been partly fun when I was a lot younger and less busy. But I just don't have time for it. I totally fail to see, therefore, how me paying extra money so that I can have the opportunity to see all the content in the game I've already paid for and subscribed to for a year in any way is unfair to anyone else. Is it "unfair" that other people have more time to play the game than I do? Does that mean that Bioware should figure out how much playtime the average player can dedicate to the game each week and use that as an weekly cap in playtime?

 

Younger folks (those with summer vacations, relatively free undergrad schedules, or no job or kids, etc.) often have an advantage in time. Us busy folks with jobs and kids often have an advantage in money. As long as the money solution can't buy better equipment than you can get through crafting, drops, GTN, etc., then I don't see how P2W is even part of the equation. P2W means that you must pay to win. If you put full Rakata sets (or even Campaign or Dread Guard) on the cartel network that's not P2W. Lots of folks on the server will have already earned all that stuff for free through grinding.

 

Anyway....

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Actually, last word from Olhen was that selling end game pve gear and pvp gear was on their list of things to definitely NOT do. The statement here was supposed to be a communication of their intent on space gear, interpreting this ambiguity in such a way would only cause a panic. A request for clarification is in line, fear mongering is not.

 

They say - "Roll out new content every month"

We get - Three month wait for new content and a four month wait after that.

 

They say "Ranked in 1.2!"

We get Ranked pulled 3hrs before the patch goes live and no update for over a month.

 

They say "Ilum is the greatest pvp environment you'll ever see, it will truly blow you away!"

We get it pulled two months in to launch because it's buggy pointless POS.

 

 

They say they'll fix it.

We get a date moves more than a squirrel on crack, and it keeps going back and back and back.

 

They say "WE WILL NEVER GO FTP THAT MODEL DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO US."

We get the game going f2p within a year of launch.

 

They say they have all sorts of neat events planned for us.

They release two, both are buggy as heck, and then instead of the most recent event they just sell the items on the CM, no quests or anything.

 

They say "we won't charge subs for any additional content."

We get a retraction less than month later saying "we're still debating on whether Makeb will cost subs."

 

They say "we won't put gear with stats in the CM."

We get gear with stats.

 

They say "it won't be the best gear in the game.

We get to pay money for the best gear in the game or grind for months.

 

They say "it was a mistake, we won't do it again."

... what do you believe?

 

Personally, we've been lied to and mislead SO MANY TIMES, that I don't believe a word they say about anything.

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Personally, we've been lied to and mislead SO MANY TIMES, that I don't believe a word they say about anything.

 

Good for you. Don't go around lying about what they said though(your previous claim that their announced plans were to expand this to pve and pvp gear when the exact opposite was true) if you're going to complain about unmet "promises".

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That's how people in TOR's targeted player base naturally react to the selling of top end pv/pve gear. In all probability, a substantial portion of the population would quit the game should it become straightforward end game p2win. Unfortunately, in all probability a straightforward end game p2win model is more profitable given an MMO drops below a certain population threshhold. If end game p2win comes, a lot of long timers and new players alike will leave. The game will almost certainly survive for years afterwards, but there's no denying that a substantial group of people would be displeased with the model change.

 

I will quit in a heartbeat and never look back if they are going to keep doing the P2W model. Basically its why I refuse to play GW2 anymore cause its the same cept you pay to buy gems to convert to gold to get the best stuff. Sad part is I can afford it all with ease but I have a bit more dignity than to buy my way to the best equipment with real world currency in a game that I play for fun.

 

In an essences allowing the items from the cartel to be sold on the GTN is already close to pay to win since you can get ingame currency but there is still a good bit of items you have to work for in the game.

Edited by Burtlebe
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P2W means that you must pay to win.

If I can quote you in that exact thread (in response to this statement above):

*shrug* So says you.

So shortcutting is okay as long as you have the cash? Is that what you're saying?

 

I understand that time = money and some people who don't have the time would like to circumvent it with money, but games, especially persistent games, are meant to be enjoyed for the doing of them right? You're supposed to aim for that high score by playing well, right? You don't sit there and go "well if I plug in X amount of quarters, then I'll get the high score." With a system like that, we're the reward?

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Good for you. Don't go around lying about what they said though(your previous claim that their announced plans were to expand this to pve and pvp gear when the exact opposite was true) if you're going to complain about unmet "promises".

 

How exactly does whatever you just said contradict my point in any way whatsoever?

 

My entire point is that we cannot trust what they said because they have mislead us so many times, and your evidence that we can trust them is "they said it won't go into PVE/PVP!"

 

Well I mean, it already has. Space combat IS PVE, it is a way to earn BH comms which are part of this current tier's progression. I'd say "activities you engage in to earn end game PVE gear is PVE wouldn't you? If not, how would you define PVE? Lol.

 

Additionally, the un-level restricted +41 crystals are BiS for EVERY class sub 50 regardless of the content you engage in.

 

Get 2 +41 expertise crystals at level 12 and tell me they haven't messed up here.

 

EDIT: Rereading your word vomit of post, not only are you wrong, but it appears you completely misread that point. Go reread it. I am saying: They SAID they WONT put end game PVE and PVP gear in the game, not they said they WOULD. Lol.

Edited by Durasturan
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Hi everyone,

 

I've spoken to the design team about the issue of Grade 7 ship upgrades and the cost in game (resources and time) versus the cost on the Cartel Market, since this concern was raised by a number of people on our forums.

 

Our Lead Designer for the game, Damion Schubert, has this to say:

 

Unfortunately, there is, in fact, a great disparity between these two costs. We want to apologize for this, as there was a miscommunication internally on how valuable these upgrades were, how challenging they should be to earn, and how fast a player should be able to earn them.

 

We are currently looking at solutions that cause the least amount of frustration for all players affected, while keeping the integrity of both the Cartel Market and the game intact.

 

It is not our intent to make the Cartel Market the “way to play" the game—we want you to feel that both the Cartel Market and earning gear in game are viable options as far as value goes, neither being far more efficient or effective than the other.

 

We truly hope you enjoy the challenge of the new Heroic Space Missions and apologize again for what we hope is a small distraction.

 

I want to reiterate that we are actively looking at solutions and they will be communicated to you as soon as we have a solid plan.

 

Thank you for your patience.

 

Translation: We didnt think you guys would notice and/or care enough to make a stink. We thought you guys were rubes.

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Hi everyone,

 

I've spoken to the design team about the issue of Grade 7 ship upgrades and the cost in game (resources and time) versus the cost on the Cartel Market, since this concern was raised by a number of people on our forums.

Thank you for communicating our concerns. That act goes a long way towards regaining some good will. I will look forward to seeing a fair solution that maintains the integrity of the game.

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Good for you. Don't go around lying about what they said though(your previous claim that their announced plans were to expand this to pve and pvp gear when the exact opposite was true) if you're going to complain about unmet "promises".

Okay, you could be right about that, but this is the very same company that may changes to the Marauder Annihilation tree and said it was a DPS increase, but many people showed them the math that it wasn't an increase.

 

So BW is either inept or lying with that response. Does either one sound like someone you want to trust?

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Thank you for communicating our concerns. That act goes a long way towards regaining some good will. I will look forward to seeing a fair solution that maintains the integrity of the game.

 

I doubt it they just got caught with there hand in the proverbial cookie jar and are backtracking to save face.

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Thank you for communicating our concerns. That act goes a long way towards regaining some good will. I will look forward to seeing a fair solution that maintains the integrity of the game.

 

"Hey guys, since these items are so important to the ONLY real content we released this patch we meant to charge you $20000 per bundle, not $5. It's not P2W if we charge so much only rich people can afford it!"

 

Honestly, his post doesn't actually say anything; here it is parsed:

 

Internal miscommunication about how much these should be charged for (He does not say they don't belong on the market at all, just that the price is in question.)

 

They will start TALKING about doing something (don't say what they will do or when.)

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Do you by any chance think they will make changes becouse of their good will?

 

Whatever changes they make will be for the betterment of the game, however they percieve it, not out of good will. The good thing is that most of the time businesses make the right decisions to balance profit and customer satisfaction, though we usually only hear about the spectacular failures.

 

The success of the store will ensure that we retain non-grind options to a good degree, I believe.

Edited by dpwms
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"Hey guys, since these items are so important to the ONLY real content we released this patch we meant to charge you $20000 per bundle, not $5. It's not P2W if we charge so much only rich people can afford it!"

 

Honestly, his post doesn't actually say anything; here it is parsed:

 

Internal miscommunication about how much these should be charged for (He does not say they don't belong on the market at all, just that the price is in question.)

 

They will start TALKING about doing something (don't say what they will do or when.)

 

Meanwhile everyone is buying these in the store still, not a oops we will remove this right awayy. No its a well we can charge even more!

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