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No More Disney Star Wars References in this EU Game


Tofu_Shark

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Exept for the distinct differences between male and female helmets since the clone wars tv series...

This is getting off-topic, but this must be addressed.

 

That could be handwaved as the Nite Owls having a distinct look to their helmets, but I don't recall the portrayal of any other armored, female Mandalorians in the show. If there were and they weren't Nite Owls (and I don't remember) and they were shown with those helmets it would be problematic, as one could only conclude that they did that for the animation, because Force forbid if the female Mandalorians wearing a suit of armor cannot be easily distinguished from the males. And Mandalorian society seems to be pretty egalitarian between the sexes.

 

Eyes (or in this case, a visor) are a common way to visually represent differences between male and female characters in animation. It would be the dominant culture asserting itself over the representation of female Mandalorians. (See here for a deeper explanation, only in the context of race/ethnicity instead of sex and gender.) If it was a specific organization of Mandalorians, which it seems to be, that would be different.

 

However, there are male members of the Nite Owls, and they do not have the flared visor that the females possess. I don't recall any other time female Mandalorians were depicted on the show and that is troubling. If it was only the leader of the Nite Owls that had a different visor, it could be explained as a "hero model," something different or in greater detail to distinguish an important character from the others, but that's not the case.

 

I hope someone with better knowledge of the show's details can point out female, armor-clad Mandalorians that aren't part of the Nite Owls. Otherwise, the only conclusion that can be drawn is the female Nite Owls have the flared visor to immediately identify them as "not male," which asserts that the norm is male.

Edited by Tofu_Shark
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This is getting off-topic, but this must be addressed.

 

That could be handwaved as the Nite Owls having a distinct look to their helmets, but I don't recall the portrayal of any other armored, female Mandalorians in the show. If there were and they weren't Nite Owls (and I don't remember) and they were shown with those helmets it would be problematic, as one could only conclude that they did that for the animation, because Force forbid if the female Mandalorians wearing a suit of armor cannot be easily distinguished from the males.

 

Eyes (or in this case, a visor) are a common way to visually represent differences between male and female characters in animation. It would be the dominant culture asserting itself over the representation of female Mandalorians. (See here for a deeper explanation, only in the context of race/ethnicity instead of sex and gender.) If it was a specific organization of Mandalorians, which it seems to be, that would be different.

 

However, there are male members of the Nite Owls, and they do not have the flared visor that the females possess. I don't recall any other time female Mandalorians were depicted on the show and that is troubling. If it was only the leader of the Nite Owls that had a different visor, it could be explained as a "hero model," something different or in greater detail to distinguish an important character from the others, but that's not the case.

 

I hope someone with better knowledge of the show's details can point out female, armor-clad Mandalorians that aren't part of the Nite Owls. Otherwise, the only conclusion that can be drawn is the female Nite Owls have the flared visor to immediately identify them as "not male," which asserts that the norm is male.

I don't believe there are non-Nite Owl female Mandos shown in The Clone Wars, but "The Armorer" on The Mandalorian has the same visor design (with respect to her eyes / visor), and she has no known affiliation with the Nite Owls.

 

Sabine Wren, from Rebels, does as well, although in her case it could still be attributed to clan affiliation -- although she personally was not a Nite Owl, her mother was a member and Sabine's helmet design is generally evocative of an owl. Various unidentified female Mandalorians allied with Clan Wren (clearly using cut-and-paste character designs for larger battles), but again not explicitly identified as Nite Owls, were the same.

Edited by DarthDymond
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I don't understand the hate towards the new movies. i get it, they aren't your Star Wars, but they've created new fans in younger people that will grow up and hopefully pass on their love for Star Wars as I have with my children.

 

When I saw RoS there were kids in there eating that sh** up and I was so happy to see that.

 

Whether you like it or not, Star Wars isn't yours, and this is how it survives. This is the way, and I like it.

 

But to stay on topic, I think the examples people have given as being inserted into SWTOR are to....i dunno...appeal to the new fans of Star Wars and keep the game alive...

 

SEE WHERE I'M GOING HERE?

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Why the hell are you yelling? You think that's going to get me to agree with you? Nope.

 

It's not just they aren't the EU fans' Star Wars, but Disney threw away 30+ years of lore and a loyal fanbase that kept interest in Star Wars alive between trilogies like it was nothing. They weren't even worth the consideration or even a thanks. Disney then flouts the source material as if they created Star Wars and the EU, cannibalizing and corrupting elements from it as if this was a universe without any pre-established rules and laws.

 

The EU may be a patchwork of loosely connected, sometimes downright nonsensical stories, but many of those stories are rich because the writers respected the source material and the elements introduced in them contributed to the greater whole of the Galaxy Far, Far Away. Some of them are even excellent. That is its strength as well as its weakness. It is the reason why a game like SWTOR is rich in its own lore and continues that tradition. It stands on the shoulders of its predecessors. I will take the EU over the disorganized "plane that crashed into ship, that caused that ship to run aground, that caused a trainwreck, that caused a 50-car pileup" that is Disney Star Wars any day.

 

Disney's Star Wars is inferior to the EU in every way, in spite of the EU's faults. Disney thinks they can create something as good as the OT, PT, and EU, and they've been dead wrong and will continue to be dead wrong. It is nearly impossible to capture lightning in a bottle twice.

 

New players unfamiliar with the EU were coming to SWTOR because Disney Star Wars generated interest in the game, not because they put references to it in a conversation or two or started making CM weapons and outfits that referenced it. That's just a knee-jerk reaction from EA. And if the atrocity to art that is Disney Star Wars never existed, there would be some element of the EU that would've drawn them to the game. They come here and stay here because the game is a fount of Star Wars content. It doesn't need the Mouse ramming itself in to draw new players.

 

No, it's not [overused Mandalorian meme]. This game doesn't need Disney fanon references jammed in to survive. The EU is rich with lore. It stands on its own. It was doing fine without them.

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Just saying you sound like every Star Wars purest ever. Things change. Are the Disney items EA has inserted into the game a cash grab? Absolutely. But so is that Lando outfit they made recently, so is that sick glowing commando set they made, so is...etc...

 

Personally, the EU turned me off to Star Wars because it was a jumbled up mess of, in my opinion, fanfic. At least Disney has the opportunity to bring this all together and learn from their mistakes with the newest trilogy. They have the power to tie everything together with TV series and their own stories. And I believe they will. They've already hinted that the 2020's will be for Star Wars. So, just try to be optimistic.

 

This is the way.

 

also, caps don't always mean "yelling".

Edited by Volcinar
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Why the hell are you yelling? You think that's going to get me to agree with you? Nope.

 

It's not just they aren't the EU fans' Star Wars, but Disney threw away 30+ years of lore and a loyal fanbase that kept interest in Star Wars alive between trilogies like it was nothing. They weren't even worth the consideration or even a thanks. Disney then flouts the source material as if they created Star Wars and the EU, cannibalizing and corrupting elements from it as if this was a universe without any pre-established rules and laws.

 

The EU may be a patchwork of loosely connected, sometimes downright nonsensical stories, but many of those stories are rich because the writers respected the source material and the elements introduced in them contributed to the greater whole of the Galaxy Far, Far Away. Some of them are even excellent. That is its strength as well as its weakness. It is the reason why a game like SWTOR is rich in its own lore and continues that tradition. It stands on the shoulders of its predecessors. I will take the EU over the disorganized "plane that crashed into ship, that caused that ship to run aground, that caused a trainwreck, that caused a 50-car pileup" that is Disney Star Wars any day.

 

Disney's Star Wars is inferior to the EU in every way, in spite of the EU's faults. Disney thinks they can create something as good as the OT, PT, and EU, and they've been dead wrong and will continue to be dead wrong. It is nearly impossible to capture lightning in a bottle twice.

 

New players unfamiliar with the EU were coming to SWTOR because Disney Star Wars generated interest in the game, not because they put references to it in a conversation or two or started making CM weapons and outfits that referenced it. That's just a knee-jerk reaction from EA. And if the atrocity to art that is Disney Star Wars never existed, there would be some element of the EU that would've drawn them to the game. They come here and stay here because the game is a fount of Star Wars content. It doesn't need the Mouse ramming itself in to draw new players.

 

No, it's not [overused Mandalorian meme]. This game doesn't need Disney fanon references jammed in to survive. The EU is rich with lore. It stands on its own. It was doing fine without them.

 

Again I agree with everything here.

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Just saying you sound like every Star Wars purest ever. Things change. Are the Disney items EA has inserted into the game a cash grab? Absolutely. But so is that Lando outfit they made recently, so is that sick glowing commando set they made, so is...etc...

 

Personally, the EU turned me off to Star Wars because it was a jumbled up mess of, in my opinion, fanfic. At least Disney has the opportunity to bring this all together and learn from their mistakes with the newest trilogy. They have the power to tie everything together with TV series and their own stories. And I believe they will. They've already hinted that the 2020's will be for Star Wars. So, just try to be optimistic.

 

This is the way.

 

also, caps don't always mean "yelling".

Off-topic, but there was already a Lando outfit: Arkan, the guy from Bounty Week.

 

Disney has had the opportunity and squandered it. They have the power to ruin things too and have...in spades. They literally had all the ingredients, all the building blocks to add to something great, and what did they do, swung a wrecking ball and brought the whole house down.

 

Not everything needs to be tied together. Not everything is worth tying together.

 

 

You know this is not the way.

 

You want to stop arguing, because you're never going to change my mind.

Edited by Tofu_Shark
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It's come to my attention, Bioware, that you have slipped in references to Disney's Star Wars within the game. Outfits and weapons were toeing the line, this is sticking the tip of the nail over it:

  • Gatalentan tea and the world it comes from
  • A reference being interpreted by some as a possible reference to Ahch-to in the Republic Jedi Under Siege story

 

Players, if you know of any others, please share them in this thread.

 

This game is every EU fan's last refuge from Disney. Here, we can pretend the EU was never relegated as non-canon and the sequel trilogy, those awful standalone movies, and the poor imitation of Battlefront never happened.

 

Please do not make any more references to Disney's Star Wars. Disney has no place in an EU game. Keep their stuff out of an EU game. You are playing with fire by putting the streams dangerously close together, to mix metaphors.

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We have to preserve this last Star Wars' place, far away from the influences of marvel or other genres that have no connection with the original Star wars philosophy

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Quote!!!

We have to preserve this last Star Wars' place, far away from the influences of marvel or other genres that have no connection with the original Star wars philosophy

But Marvel pretty much was the EU for the first decade of "the original Star Wars". (Along with Splinter of the Mind's Eye, the Holiday Special, and the Droid and Ewoks cartoons.)

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I don't understand the hate towards the new movies. i get it, they aren't your Star Wars, but they've created new fans in younger people that will grow up and hopefully pass on their love for Star Wars as I have with my children.

 

When I saw RoS there were kids in there eating that sh** up and I was so happy to see that.

 

Whether you like it or not, Star Wars isn't yours, and this is how it survives. This is the way, and I like it.

This argument doesn’t hold water.

 

1. Merch based on DT and targeted at kids and teens doesn’t sell. At the same time merch based on OT, PT and TCW still sells decently. There’re plenty of articles discussing this issue. Kids don’t ask for it, parents don’t buy.

 

2. It’s been 4 years since TFA. Some of these kids the movie was supposedly targeted at are young teens now. Somehow I don’t see them all over the internet expressing their appreciation towards DT. On the contrary, I saw some of them on the so called “hate subs” and was surprised that they even care. There’re franchises that are far more attractive for teens than old school Star Wars with its futuristic shabbiness. MCU, for instance.

 

3. It’s also amusing how TLJ fans keep claiming that this movie is a masterpiece, and those who don’t agree aren’t just smart enough to comprehend it. A movie made for kids, huh?

 

I’d say the only new demographic DT attracted is young females dreaming of Reylo, and they’re even more toxic than Fandom Menace when they don’t get what they want or don’t like what they get. Besides, as soon as they smell another Twilight in another franchise they’ll move there.

 

Pissing off old fans who’s been keeping the franchise alive for 40 years, and hoping that they’ll be easily replaced with younger ones, isn’t exactly smart move. Plenty of these pissed fans are parents and maybe even grandparents who don’t want their kids watching what they don’t approve.

 

Personally, the EU turned me off to Star Wars because it was a jumbled up mess of, in my opinion, fanfic. At least Disney has the opportunity to bring this all together and learn from their mistakes with the newest trilogy. They have the power to tie everything together with TV series and their own stories. And I believe they will. They've already hinted that the 2020's will be for Star Wars. So, just try to be optimistic.

I mean, even three parts of their AAA trilogy contradict each other and don't make sense as a whole thing. Every time they try to fix it in additinonal content (art books, novelization, comics) they make things even worse. Rey's a nobody and Kylo's antipode, nope, Rey's Palp's granddaughter, nope, Rey's daughter of Palp's failed clone, well, forget about it, it doesn't matter anyway sinse she's a Skywalker now.

 

And according to the dude from the Lucasfilm story group, they don't care about continuity and consistency. I find it hard to believe that they'll manage to tie all the stuff they're going to release or even try to do so.

 

Sorry for off-topic.

Edited by Ollmich
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But Marvel pretty much was the EU for the first decade of "the original Star Wars". (Along with Splinter of the Mind's Eye, the Holiday Special, and the Droid and Ewoks cartoons.)

 

It's true, but I don't want see Avengers on Star Wars universe.

While it is true, the Marvel era of the EU is largely dismissed. I don't think it was even remotely managed at that time. The EU really didn't really start to grow and be taken seriously as part of Star Wars until the Shadows of the Empire multimedia project and the Thrawn Trilogy.

 

Again, a strength of the EU is parts of it that are unfavorable can be easily dismissed, and parts that are loved can be embraced and if there was the will to, integrated into canon.

Edited by Tofu_Shark
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  • 2 months later...

What in the nine Corellian Hells, Bioware! A reference to the kriffing BB-8 map from Force Awakens?!

 

Stop slipping Disney Star Wars references directly into the game's story and environment. I don't care about items, as long as they don't show up on NPCs, but this and the Baby Yoda ad are kriffing endorsements of Disney Star Wars within the game's universe.

 

I don't see the EU being able to blatantly influence Disney Star Wars. Disney threw out the entire EU, including this game, so the Mouse should keep its white-gloved fingers out of this EU game. There will be a plethora of new Disney Star Wars games. There will be no more EU games.

 

Those Disney fans want references to their universe, they can play their games, but if they want to play in ours, they (and the developers, because you guys put this stuff in the game) should have to respect the one we embrace. Their enabling of these actions by Disney fans should be ignored. The developers respected this was an EU game until The Force Awakens came out. Around that time, they released the crossguard saber, which was an item, so I had no problem with it, as long as an NPC never carried it. I know this is marketing, but there's a difference between straight-up marketing, and marketing using a secondary brand that then influences the first brand's product.

 

Leave this game's universe untainted by Disney. Disney has no place in an EU game. Keep their stuff out of an EU game. Disney fans, we have no say in your kriffing universe, so keep your crap out of ours.

 

 

Why was this moved to Community Content? This has nothing to do with Fan Art, Fan Fiction, Roleplaying and Play-by-Post, or new forums for local check-ins and for organizing player-run events.

Edited by Tofu_Shark
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Why was this moved to Community Content? This has nothing to do with Fan Art, Fan Fiction, Roleplaying and Play-by-Post, or new forums for local check-ins and for organizing player-run events.

It has nothing much to with anything, actually, since it is based on a false dichotomy between EU fans and Disneycanon fans, so you're right, it shouldn't be in Community Content.

 

It should be in Off-Topic.

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I actually wish they would put MORE Disney Star Wars in the game.

 

Imagine:

- Baby Yoda pet

- "The Mandalorian" armor

- we need a big mando themed expansion in general :)

- K-2SO droid companion (from Rogue One)

- some planets from the new movies (the ice planet with the Vulptilla(?) foxes e.g.)

- sith trooper armor and the honor guards armor from (TLJ)

- Captain Phasma´s armor (or a female stormtrooper captain as main NPC)

- MOAR aliens species! (not playable just more models)

- a love story between a Sith and a Jedi (idk I think it´s interesting)

Edited by Ahwassa
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What in the nine Corellian Hells, Bioware! A reference to the kriffing BB-8 map from Force Awakens?!

 

Stop slipping Disney Star Wars references directly into the game's story and environment. I don't care about items, as long as they don't show up on NPCs, but this and the Baby Yoda ad are kriffing endorsements of Disney Star Wars within the game's universe.

 

I don't see the EU being able to blatantly influence Disney Star Wars. Disney threw out the entire EU, including this game, so the Mouse should keep its white-gloved fingers out of this EU game. There will be a plethora of new Disney Star Wars games. There will be no more EU games.

 

Those Disney fans want references to their universe, they can play their games, but if they want to play in ours, they (and the developers, because you guys put this stuff in the game) should have to respect the one we embrace. Their enabling of these actions by Disney fans should be ignored. The developers respected this was an EU game until The Force Awakens came out. Around that time, they released the crossguard saber, which was an item, so I had no problem with it, as long as an NPC never carried it. I know this is marketing, but there's a difference between straight-up marketing, and marketing using a secondary brand that then influences the first brand's product.

 

Leave this game's universe untainted by Disney. Disney has no place in an EU game. Keep their stuff out of an EU game. Disney fans, we have no say in your kriffing universe, so keep your crap out of ours.

 

 

Why was this moved to Community Content? This has nothing to do with Fan Art, Fan Fiction, Roleplaying and Play-by-Post, or new forums for local check-ins and for organizing player-run events.

 

As a fan of the EU, and a long time supporter of the game, all I have to say is... Oh, boo hoo. The devs can add whatever they want to THEIR game. If they want to add something from canon like Gatalentan tea to their game, they can. Just because YOU and the less than half a dozen anti-Disney people hate it, doesn't mean the rest of us do. Stuff like this gives the rest of us EU fans a bad name.

 

Oh, and that Baby Yoda thing... It was an April fool's joke! It isn't in the game. And you fell for it, hook line and sinker. It's hilarious.

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What in the nine Corellian Hells, Bioware! A reference to the kriffing BB-8 map from Force Awakens?!

 

Stop slipping Disney Star Wars references directly into the game's story and environment. I don't care about items, as long as they don't show up on NPCs, but this and the Baby Yoda ad are kriffing endorsements of Disney Star Wars within the game's universe.

 

I don't see the EU being able to blatantly influence Disney Star Wars. Disney threw out the entire EU, including this game, so the Mouse should keep its white-gloved fingers out of this EU game. There will be a plethora of new Disney Star Wars games. There will be no more EU games.

 

Those Disney fans want references to their universe, they can play their games, but if they want to play in ours, they (and the developers, because you guys put this stuff in the game) should have to respect the one we embrace. Their enabling of these actions by Disney fans should be ignored. The developers respected this was an EU game until The Force Awakens came out. Around that time, they released the crossguard saber, which was an item, so I had no problem with it, as long as an NPC never carried it. I know this is marketing, but there's a difference between straight-up marketing, and marketing using a secondary brand that then influences the first brand's product.

 

Leave this game's universe untainted by Disney. Disney has no place in an EU game. Keep their stuff out of an EU game. Disney fans, we have no say in your kriffing universe, so keep your crap out of ours.

 

 

Why was this moved to Community Content? This has nothing to do with Fan Art, Fan Fiction, Roleplaying and Play-by-Post, or new forums for local check-ins and for organizing player-run events.

 

Disney Star Wars is Star Wars, get over it. There's going to be some references to the new movies, obviously.

 

Also the EU does actually influence new Star Wars a fair bit. There were some nods to Revan in the new movies, Rebels has brought back a lot of EU stuff, and Jedi Fallen Order has also brought back a few things. It makes sense that canon influences non-canon more than the other way around.

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Nods? Such an insult to EU fans to tease them with the possibility Revan exists in the Disney Universe. Even if he does, he won't be the same Revan from KotOR nor vanilla SWTOR. (I know his depiction in SoR is divisive.)

 

Disney hates the EU, yet they constantly twist things from it into their own image. It doesn't make any sense. If they hate it that much, why don't they just come up with their own universe? (A lot harder than it looks, doesn't it?) Let's see if they can do it better. (They've already proven they can't.)

 

As a fan of the EU, and a long time supporter of the game, all I have to say is... Oh, boo hoo. The devs can add whatever they want to THEIR game. If they want to add something from canon like Gatalentan tea to their game, they can. Just because YOU and the less than half a dozen anti-Disney people hate it, doesn't mean the rest of us do. Stuff like this gives the rest of us EU fans a bad name.

 

Oh, and that Baby Yoda thing... It was an April fool's joke! It isn't in the game. And you fell for it, hook line and sinker. It's hilarious.

You may have had a partially reasoned argument, if you didn't resort to namecalling. But I counter that the game was made before Disney bought Star Wars and respected everything that the EU was built on. This game would not be possible without the universe the EU built up over the decades. It is disrepectful to the art and fans of that work to start inserting references to an alternate dimension of Star Wars that spits on the Expanded Universe.

 

You don't speak for me and every EU fan out there, and I don't speak for all of them. Certainly there are some that do not see Disney as anathema, but I think I've made my position clear. Again, I welcome anyone that is in any agreement with what I've said to contribute to the thread. I know the forum only has a few regulars though, and I'm the odd one out in my thinking of one of the more frequent participants.

 

I saw the baby Yoda ad in the game long after April 1. I had thought it was a joke up until that point. It's not...unless it was removed in the last update.

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How presumptuous of you.

 

It is not tea in general, but a tea that doesn't exist within the Expanded Universe. It is literally tea from another dimension.

 

Prove to me the tea didn't exist beforehand.

 

I'm waiting...

 

Dasty

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Prove to me the tea didn't exist beforehand.

 

I'm waiting...

 

Dasty

Have some patience there, Sonic.

 

Since we are talking about a fictional element within a fictional universe, it does not exist until it appears or is at least mentioned in a fictional work set within that universe or a reference source about that universe. This isn't exactly discovering dinosaur fossils, unearthing ancient noodles in China, or hypothesizing the moon is the result of a celestial body that collided with the Earth during its formation with some evidence to back that claim.

 

Gatalentan tea was originally introduced in the 2016 canon novel Bloodline, written by Claudia Gray.

Emphasis mine and it's actually mentioned more than once in the game. It's mentioned in an email from Jedi Under Siege, as well as during the Dantooine Incursion. I have updated the OP to identify each mentioning of this beverage.

 

I have no proof, but that seems like an order for a strategically placed Disney reference that came from higher up the chain of command. It is certainly the most insidious of references, because it directly intertwines a Disney element into the story, which is exclusively an EU story.

 

They literally could've chose any of the other many variety of teas from the EU or made one up, but for some reason, they chose Gatalentan tea: the frakking tea from the Disney Universe. Why, when there are all these other teas from the Expanded Universe to choose from would they choose a tea from an alternate dimension? There is no rational reason to use something from the Disney Universe when Disney abhors the EU. If they secretly love the EU like some kind of forbidden lover, then they never should've taken an axe to it like they did in the first place and instead, used a scalpel.

Edited by Tofu_Shark
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