I just had a surrreal experience in a lowbie fp i just have to share.

 

I was playing my 23 operative, qued as dps got in hammerstation, few pulls in our jugg tank is almost dead a few times, then dies. I see our commando healer has his dps barrel on, i ask, did he not realize he was dps? 3 times and 3 pulls and one tank death later he responds. But hes not speced heals so i tell him stay dps ill respec heals. Everything is fine until he disconnects a few pulls later and doesnt come back.

 

I ask the tank who is lead to reque us about 4 times but he never responds and even attacks the boss with the two bots, i cc the one you can cc and he attacks the boss, letting the other one beat on me the entire time. no biggy im 22 and well geared , well he finaly kills the boss then starts working on the ccd one while the other one continues to beat me. we finaly finish and i refuse to click the station until he reques us or atleast responds.

 

almost 5 minutes later the reque window comes up, we get a dps, oh joy. a shadow dps in tank stance, i just shut up and we move on. we get to the two champ turrets i cc the far one, our tank attacks the close one, our shadow tank/dps attacks the far one, i mention that its ccd a couple of times, no response.

 

We get to the last boss, im about to tell the jugg to put his back on the computer and dont point the boss at us, too late hes already jumped in. i mention not to face him towards us a few times, doesnt matter hes facing him at everyone wherever they go. no dps is doing anything about the adds, so im killing them and healing at the same time. we win and these idiots think we did a good job but dont realize its because they have a level 23 in full level 23 orange gear healing them.

 

I wasnt really mad i was just shocked that i could get a group almost entirely made up of morons and even get another moron when we kicked one out. Theres alot bioware could do to fix these problems that really make having fun hard, and a year of them not doing anything about it is just another example of how out of touch they are and why this game failed in the first place.

 

 

Stuff like this happens to me several times a day,everyday.It's sad cause it gets to the point that something i love doing is almost to the point that i don't even wanna bother anymore

one thing i cant stand is a DPS that wants to be a tank. or someone who is trying to rush thru a FP just because his raid is starting. I am not on your time, you qued for it so you should have time to go thru it and respect the other players if they want to hear the cut scenes let them.

Tanks aren't singled out for abuse. I've seen people go equally crazy against DPS and Healers. This isn't why there is a shortage of tanks.

 

However, I'm not saying this isn't a problem either. It's usually why I tend to avoid using pug groups with the GF. If I use the group finder, I usually like to have at least one other guildy or friend with me.

I must be extremely lucky, because in the time I've played there has only been one occasion where I've had to boot and ignore someone from groupfinder. The only instances other than that there have only been a handful of situations where I've had to say something to the effect of, "if you feel like standing in fire then have fun, but you're not getting healed".

 

I have a geared Tank, Healer, and DPS but nearly all of the HM FPs have been mostly problem free. The only guy I ignored was during a HM BP run while I was the healer. I had a guildy as a tank and 2 PUG DPS. The first was in Rakata+, and the other was in oranges and greens. This wouldn't have been a problem if he paid any attention to what he was doing. He would just attack whatever he felt like, ignore CCs, and fight the biggest guys first. Pretty much doing all the things you're not supposed to do. The final straw was when we were trying to do the bonus boss since my healer could use the gear at the time. We wiped twice, both times this DPS blamed the rest of the group for not staying away from the reactors when they are going off. Too bad that we only died when they enraged. We tried telling him that enrage means it's a DPS problem only, that he needs to stop standing there picking his *** and actually kill the things. It should really be a no DPS problem fight if they have any sense. We vote kicked him, but not before he started ranting and yelling obscenities about how terrible I and the rest of the group were.

 

We queued for another DPS and when he asked what happened to the last one we let him know and he laughed. We cleared the rest of BP without any issues, including that bonus boss.

Recently been leveling up my Commando as a Healer, now at lvl 45 (still on Hoth btw) and for the first time got Red Reaper from the GF Queue, and quit the group 3 minutes in.

The Tank was an absolute dunce, a lvl 46 Vangaurd who was so bad at keeping agro that I kept getting grappled and pulled in by the first mobs in the landing bay, despite popping my threat dump skill every chance I got. Basically I was taking more damage than the tank, didn't help the 2 DPS (a Commando and a Sentinel) were running around trying to kill mobs on opposite ends of the room, both outside my healing range. So in the space of the first mob fight I get killed about 4 times because i keep getting ganged up on by the Mobs, the Tank dies several times due to the fact that I can't heal him whilst dead and the DPS keep getting killed because they're too far away to get healed even if the healer was alive to heal them, which I wasn't. Now I've tanked Red Reaper with my Guardian and run DPS with my Shadow and I've never seen the Healer take that much damage in the first battle.

It wasn't this p*ss poor performance that made me quit it was the attitude of the Tank afterwards, basically I got a string of abuse about how my healing Sucked, how he was the greatest Tank of all time and how (apparently) I should have been able to heal him, the 2 DPS and myself with no problems whilst taking a huge amount of damage if I knew what I was doing and wasn't an utter n00b.

I was just weighing up the pros and cons of telling him just what I thought of his Tanking and how much I valued his opinion (about as much as I'd value stepping in dog sh*t) when the Commando quits the group (i don't blame him). This starts the Tank off on another rant about how the DPS sucked and at that point I quit too.

A little later I re-queued and got red reaper again, with a different Vanguard Tank (lvl 47) this guy knew what he was doing (as did the Shadow and Commando DPS) and we got through it fairly smoothly. Mind you I will admit Red Reaper is hard on Healers, especially those first few chaotic mob fights, after them it gets a lot easier.

I'm a natural tank player. I feel... strange, on dps classes.

 

Healers, I've never enjoyed it... so I personally stay right away from it!

 

But we do not enjoy greedy or idiot dps and REALLY hate dps queing up in the HEALER slot, it happens at all level ranges it seems - STOP IT. gah!

Thanks for the article. Too often in close fights after pulling thru I always tell them nice heals, from now on I'll remember to thank the tank as well.

I'm a natural tank player. I feel... strange, on dps classes.

 

Healers, I've never enjoyed it... so I personally stay right away from it!

 

But we do not enjoy greedy or idiot dps and REALLY hate dps queing up in the HEALER slot, it happens at all level ranges it seems - STOP IT. gah!

 

Unfortunately there is a glitch with the GF... I queue solely as a DPS-er and get nailed into the Healer slot quite frequently on my Commando. I do NOT enjoy healing, even though I do not do bad at it. HOWEVER if I have the darn thing UNSELECTED it should not put me into the healer role... yet it does... known bug.

Had a heartwarming experience in a SM KP a week ago.

(Note: I'm a decently experienced raid runner, Rakata Geared Guardian tank)

 

My off tank was a sub 50 geared Vanguard who, at the beginning of the raid brashly announced he was experienced and not to worry about him.

 

After him dying instantly on most boss fights, aggroing extra adds and breaking CC, I initiated a vote to kick him with the reason being "Gross Incompetence". Bless my heart, the vote passed and we 7 manned the Droid and Karaga.

 

I can put up with people who don't know what they're doing, if they're willing to listen and learn with the group. If you want to do your own thing, don't join up in group missions.

 

It's nice when Voting works. Point is, if people are willing to be cooperative, I will keep tanking.

Isn't it always the healers fault?

 

*ducks* ...

 

No seriously ... Tanks and or Healers should be the group leaders since they both have certain perspectives on "battle field awareness". NEVER DPS (and I am primarily a DPS player).

 

 

Nah, SOME DPS can be group leaders, but not all of them. I'm primarily a DPS player, Gunnery Commando main, and I am also our guild raid leader, so I have to give fight explanations, etc. so I always make sure to learn all the fights from all perspectives, at least in general, so I can let everyone know what to expect, and let them figure out how best to manage it. I so the same in all the HM FPs so if I'm in there with someone who doesn't know what to do I can tell them.

 

Sadly tho stupid isn't restricted just to GF, but to PuGging in general. Last night I went to do CtS on my shadow tank and had to deal with a gunslinger who didn't understand the concept of letting the tank start a fight, using his deaggro, or on fight right before the last boss with the 4 golds he ran into range and dropped flyby on all 4 immediately, then once I had aggro established he ran to the elevator and STOOD THERE DOING NOTHING until he got called out by the healer, at which point he decided to stand there and hit his auto-attack skill until everything was dead. I was not the group leader or i would have kicked him then and there for that stunt. And of course he ran in and aggroed Kovic as soon as the door was open and locked out the other DPS. I tried to stand there and let him die, until he deaggroed and the healer, who was keepign him alive, grabbed Kovic, at which point I grabbed him and we finished. The healer and other DPS were awesome, so I didn't want ot leave because of them, but that jagoff made my list of players to put on ignore on all toons.

I have a Tank, DPS and Healer in full campaign/BH gear+ and I find several problems when running PUG FP's. The main problem is people undergeared not knowing the fights, the second are the people who rush the group, especially if I'm tanking. People let the tank lead the instance! I don't know how many times I've dropped a group because they were simply idiots.

 

Example I jump a trash group use my AOE taunt and grab the boss, just to have the DPS ignore the trash mobs and concentrate their fire on the boss. The healer dies, because he grabs aggro and blames the Tank for not holding aggro on the trash that should have been dead by now.

 

get into a LI HM and do a gear check, find out 2 of the group are in full recruit gear, tell them that they are undergeared for this fight, just to have them come back with some nasty comments, both are new players, not alts and never done the fight before, I quickly leave the group.

 

Many players don't like having to take charge of a PUG group, so they refuse to tank one and if are like me, tired of the inexperienced players joining Q.

I just had a surrreal experience in a lowbie fp i just have to share.

 

I was playing my 23 operative, qued as dps got in hammerstation, few pulls in our jugg tank is almost dead a few times, then dies. I see our commando healer has his dps barrel on, i ask, did he not realize he was dps? 3 times and 3 pulls and one tank death later he responds. But hes not speced heals so i tell him stay dps ill respec heals. Everything is fine until he disconnects a few pulls later and doesnt come back.

 

I ask the tank who is lead to reque us about 4 times but he never responds and even attacks the boss with the two bots, i cc the one you can cc and he attacks the boss, letting the other one beat on me the entire time. no biggy im 22 and well geared , well he finaly kills the boss then starts working on the ccd one while the other one continues to beat me. we finaly finish and i refuse to click the station until he reques us or atleast responds.

 

almost 5 minutes later the reque window comes up, we get a dps, oh joy. a shadow dps in tank stance, i just shut up and we move on. we get to the two champ turrets i cc the far one, our tank attacks the close one, our shadow tank/dps attacks the far one, i mention that its ccd a couple of times, no response.

 

We get to the last boss, im about to tell the jugg to put his back on the computer and dont point the boss at us, too late hes already jumped in. i mention not to face him towards us a few times, doesnt matter hes facing him at everyone wherever they go. no dps is doing anything about the adds, so im killing them and healing at the same time. we win and these idiots think we did a good job but dont realize its because they have a level 23 in full level 23 orange gear healing them.

 

I wasnt really mad i was just shocked that i could get a group almost entirely made up of morons and even get another moron when we kicked one out. Theres alot bioware could do to fix these problems that really make having fun hard, and a year of them not doing anything about it is just another example of how out of touch they are and why this game failed in the first place.

 

It's amusing watching a skilled/geared healer carry the entire group. I have been there myself, last night actually lol on my alt healer. I assume the group was either undergeared, or just fresh 50's which is cool. They took it slow and did things right so it wasn't painful.

 

That would be the reason it wasn't painful, that they took it slow and listened to each other. Knowing their gear limitations

Edited January 3, 2013 by TheBetty

OP i know what you mean even thou all my 4 lvl 50's are DPS specced but can offtank and heal.

 

Recently few days ago i was in HM FP (forgot which one) on my dps spec guard. What happened was simple, tank wasnt looking after pack of mobs or adds on boss fights. Pretty much never aoe taunted or hit them and "tanking" one by one. I saw poor healer betting pounded and healing himself madly. I swtiched to guard stance and shielded healer. Other dps was also badle geared sadly around 15k health. Tank gear i didnt check but health was around 17k so cant be good ether.

So there i was tanking and dps'ing as boss fights i had aggro most time even being in dps stance. Granted i got full BH+ 63 MH and OH.

But if whole group is so over geared for FP its desont matter if DPS takes full aoe aggro. All die so fast anyway.

I see problem when half group or 3 of 4 are not well geared or fresh 50's. That causes alot issues if one member in group dont use brain and makes things alot harder for all.

It is kinda funny that i have recently helped "tanks" quite a bit as dps guard.

Today i was in corellia BH weekly 4+ as dps again on guard and other dps said why dont i put shield on guard who was suppose to be main tank - wut ?

 

I got many other stories aswell seeing hilarious tanks and AWESOME healer who just got lvl 50 and saved whole group because tank seemed to fight mobs one by one and breaking cc's. I had to say to that healer he was better than i have seen many other well geared healers because with that bad gear to save gr from total wipe was insane.

I didnt die once while tank and other dps died often.

 

There are very few HM FP bosses i cant tank being on full dps gear and spec with focus OH rather shield but in soresu form. Therefor i say being able to offheal or offtank can be very valuable after seeing lately many new fresh 50's just dont got clue what to do in FP.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Divona

To the original topic, the op is right but that is a very small reason for the shortage of tanks. The main reason is the same reason there is a shortage in all trinity based mmos, people dont want the responcibility, dps have a pretty hard time screwing up a group compared to a healer or tank, ive never seen a group whipe because a dps went afk in the middle of clearing trash.

 

A good example of this is wow when cataclysm firrst came out, everyone complained about the heroics being so hard, they werent really hard, they just had raid style boss encounters with mechanics that relied on dps payng attention as much as tanks and heals, most dps do not like to be held accountable thats why they play dps and why the really lazy ones even complain about dps meters so much.

Edited January 4, 2013 by Mallorik

... dps have a pretty hard time screwing up a group compared to a healer or tank, ive never seen a group whipe because a dps went afk in the middle of clearing trash.

 

...

I actually agree with you, but this comment reminded me of HM KP.

 

We've wiped on the trash pull right after the Fab more times than every boss in the instance combined.

 

Inevitably some yahoo dps will walk into the next room before CCs are in place. Next thing you know there are 8,432 murder droids giving us all vibroblade enemas.

 

Edited January 4, 2013 by Khevar

Thank you for the original posting.... It is interesting that you make note of this now. As a tank, especially when I was a new tank trying to learn to control aggro. My biggest frustration was the speed at which ppl seem to want to rush through things and how the had no patience to wait for the tank to hit first.

 

No disrespect to the Sentinals... but if you want to tank, level a Guardian. Force Leap is a great skill and I understand it ties into a great rotation, high damage and fast kill; however, when you jump in and start smacking the crap out of things, you are not working on a team -- your are trying to kill everything alone. One strategy we have used in the past was to guard the DPS; however, often, we have gotten grief from the DPS for guarding them and not the healer. Logic says -- he who pulls aggro, gets the guard.

 

My point -- rushing through and forgetting you are in a group with complete strangers who may or may not know the mechanics or who may be learning a new role does not make for a fun GF OPS/FP run. In fact, it just leads to rage quits and nasty whispers. We are all here for fun and to learn the mechanics of the game. You may be full Hazmat/Dreadguard but your healer may be tier zero. Show some consideration and follow these simple guidelines:

 

- Ask the question, Do you know the fights?

- No? Explain them as you go

- Tanks, take 5 seconds and type where you are tanking a boss (thinking of Iron Fist in Essesles in particular)

- Healers, don't pre-heal your tanks... doing so immediately means that at the start of the fight, you have the highest threat which makes it harder to get aggro back.

- DPS, show some respect and use whatever threat drops you have on your toon. Just because you can crit 6000k hit points on Nightmare Pilgrim doesn't mean that it's neccessary to do so on a mob of 6 level 50 regulars and strongs.

- Mind the CCs and mark them.

-- on that note, whether you choose to mark CC or not, mention it to the group.. some ppl think the Gun symbol is the NPC they are to hit first which, is often what ticks ppl off.

 

More importantly, if you wipe -- it's part of the game. Be patient and don't freak out.

 

For the noobs out there, if you have never run a FP, try to get ppl from your guild to run you through the first time so you can watch the story. After 9 months at level 50, I want to space-bar through it *cough Essesles*

 

Great thread guys I enjoyed reading your thoughts.

Edited January 4, 2013 by Baby-Girl

I actually agree with you, but this comment reminded me of HM KP.

 

We've wiped on the trash pull right after the Fab more times than every boss in the instance combined.

 

Inevitably some yahoo dps will walk into the next room before CCs are in place. Next thing you know there are 8,432 murder droids giving us all vibroblade enemas.

 

 

On my server, we call those The Wipe Rooms. I'm a Shadow tank and will always use blackout in order to get close and CC one of the two technicians in the room, but more than often someone follows me, or rushes into the room first, or will just randomly tab and leap to the first thing they lock onto.

 

--

 

I have a DPS, a Healer and my main character, the Shadow tank and if I ever want to do group finder with a pug group, tank is the best way to go. It's not very often I will have to wait for group finder to pop for a flashpoint, it's usually right away . My healer requires a bit of a wait and my DPS... I don't even bother unless queued with at least 1 more guild member.

 

But there is still another side of this coin, as I've seen tanks get real attitudes and usually aimed at the healers. They'll stack endurance, completely ignore mitigation and then rage quit because a party wipes simply because the healer (or healers in Ops) have to focus all their attention on keeping that tanks 28-30k HP full because they are taking much more damage than they should be.

I tank but only in PvP and refuse to even queue for instances. The reason is they are boring and theres always that guy who forgets he has a spacebar and it makes them take even longer. I didnt think it was possible for a game to make small man PvE more boring than WoW but it seems Bioware succeeded. I only have full War Hero Tank gear and everything is faceroll. Im not even PvE geared.