Canon wise , Sidious

None Canon wise , Luke

 

Luke does not become a Master and number 1 till EU and lucas stated everything after the movies did not happen and are not canon.

 

Just another reason why I hate Lucas's hate for EU and this whole Canon Fanboy bs.

 

No. There's a reason C-Canon exists.

 

On topic, Luke.

How would Sidious fall to Luke.

I think he is a little too old now.

He might slip while fighting and break his back...

That is true but I will give him points for taking out the backstabber who tossed him down the hole . After all Vadar was only alive for little while after before his suit and body gave out from being shocked to death .

 

Palpitine scores one for that !

I would say I would rather him killing the cry baby Luke than Vadar but can't have it all I guess !

 

I just want to know one thing.....do you spell Vader as "Vadar" intentionally?

we have to go with EU Luke ... because of the simple fact the threads title says MASTER Luke vs. Darth Sidius and Luke wasn't a master til after the movies... your entire argument is now moot

 

Master Luke SKywalker > Palpatine by miles

 

This!

 

When the thread title explicitly asks us to compare the EU Luke that was a Jedi Master to Darth Sidious and you insist that we must use the ROTJ Luke who was just barely a Jedi Knight it comes across like you aren't arguing in good faith.

From an EU viewpoint...

Master Skywalker would kick Palp's wrinkly purple behind.

 

From a 'movie-canon' viewpoint...

It could be argued that Luke is still stronger than both Vader and Palpatine. After all, he is the only one of the three of them that didn't give in to the dark side, and indeed was pure enough to be able to pull his father, Vader, back from where he was, way deep down into the dark side of the Force.

 

Also, he didn't go to the Death Star to kill the Emperor, he went to redeem his father. In that, he succeeded.

From an EU viewpoint...

Master Skywalker would kick Palp's wrinkly purple behind.

 

From a 'movie-canon' viewpoint...

It could be argued that Luke is still stronger than both Vader and Palpatine. After all, he is the only one of the three of them that didn't give in to the dark side, and indeed was pure enough to be able to pull his father, Vader, back from where he was, way deep down into the dark side of the Force.

 

Also, he didn't go to the Death Star to kill the Emperor, he went to redeem his father. In that, he succeeded.

 

I wanna say on a more moral level, he was stronger then both of them being able to resist the darkside. Seeing as he resisted the strongest sith lord in history, power wise in ROTJ he wasn't near Palpatine....and(really hate to say this, because it makes his training seem almost worthless to me) he wasn't strong as Vader. Because after the battle, he states that if Vader fought him at full he wouldn't have lasted.

I wanna say on a more moral level, he was stronger then both of them being able to resist the darkside. Seeing as he resisted the strongest sith lord in history, power wise in ROTJ he wasn't near Palpatine....and(really hate to say this, because it makes his training seem almost worthless to me) he wasn't strong as Vader. Because after the battle, he states that if Vader fought him at full he wouldn't have lasted.

 

Yeah, that's kinda what I was saying. He was morally stronger than the pair of them. i suppose that is why he went along anyways, even though he knew that he was doomed if he couldn't turn Vader away from the dark side.

As much as I hate that the EU has fallen for the mighty power creep that affects a good majority of books and comics, I'm going to have to say Luke. My only question is: why must Luke have the ability to create black holes and all that other OP stuff? Why doesn't he just use those OP powers to kill Abeloth and be done with it? It doesn't make sense to me. Edited May 25, 2012 by Aurbere

As much as I hate that the EU has fallen for the mighty power creep that affects a good majority of books and comics, I'm going to have to say Luke. My only question is: why must Luke have the ability to create black holes and all that other OP stuff? Why doesn't he just use those OP powers to kill Abeloth and be done with it? It doesn't make sense to me.

 

You can't kill an immortal....well you can, but it just depends on what kind of immortality the person has.

You can't kill an immortal....well you can, but it just depends on what kind of immortality the person has.

 

Then how is Luke gonna beat Abeloth? I guess you could suck her through a black hole

Then how is Luke gonna beat Abeloth? I guess you could suck her through a black hole

 

Well what kinda immortality does Abeloth have?

Well what kinda immortality does Abeloth have?

 

idk. Abeloth is really complex to me. Is Abeloth like 'Back from the dead!' Like Boba or unkillable like Superman(back when he seemed nigh invulnerable)

Edited May 25, 2012 by Aurbere

idk. Abeloth is really complex to me. Is Abeloth like 'Back from the dead!' Like Boba or unkillable like Superman(back when he seemed nigh invulnerable)

 

Well if Abeloth doesn't have god immortality, meaning can never die no matter what happens. Then she can still die in some way or another, cutting off the head for example like a vampire they are immortal but can still die.

Edited May 25, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

Well if Abeloth doesn't have god immortality, meaning can never die no matter what happens. Then she can still die in some way or another, cutting off the head for example like a vampire they are immortal but can still die.

 

True. It'll probably come down to that.

Disregarding all the arguing about the movies and stuff and going based on the OP I would say Luke. I have read about 60 EU novels and Luke becomes pretty ******. Granted if you read all the books it did take him time to reach the level of mastery he does achieve.

 

One moment later in the EU where you can easily see Lukes power but not in some kind of ridiculous OP way is when he pins Jacen (Darth Caedus) to his chair with a mere thought. At this point Caedus was very powerful and a full blown Sith capable of some pretty amazing feats like flowwalking and battle meditation and Luke just pawned him to his chair with literally no effort. Even Jacen admitted at that point as powerful as he has become he still could not best his uncle.

 

Without spending to much time going into detail of Lukes other powers I think its pretty safe to say EU Grand Master Skywalker would beat Sidious, should be a good fight but I think he could edge it out one way or another

Why doesn't he just use those OP powers to kill Abeloth and be done with it? It doesn't make sense to me.

 

Because then the book would be about 10 pages long if that....

Because then the book would be about 10 pages long if that....

 

I think that's the problem with making heroes and villains so powerful. You show off once, but in order for the books to be interesting you can't do it when you need to.

Luke from the novels turned into the greatest Jedi to have ever lived, surpassing any known Sith Lord. This isn't even debatable. He had all of Anakin's potential, pre-lava. Lucas has stated that Anakin had the potential to surpass Sidius. Luke, unlike his father, actually realized his potential and singlehandedly rebuilt the Jedi order. Luke became so powerful in the novels that they had to nerf him to some degree just to keep the plot interesting.

 

The answer is Luke.

 

I lol'd pretty heartily at "pre-lava"

 

Anyway, Luke from the novels makes Sidious look like a punk

A point that I don't think people are getting... Luke beat the Emperor in Return of the Jedi. He didn't use force lightning or his lightsaber. He used his connection to the force and his understanding of his father to turn Vader back to the light. That may not be as exciting as lvl 50 force lightning against dual wield ataru form, but it's valid nonetheless. It's also kind of the whole point of the original trilogy, that love can conquer evil. The Emperor miscalculated by thinking he could turn Luke to the dark side, and he paid with his life. Luke beat him. Plain and simple.

A point that I don't think people are getting... Luke beat the Emperor in Return of the Jedi. He didn't use force lightning or his lightsaber. He used his connection to the force and his understanding of his father to turn Vader back to the light. That may not be as exciting as lvl 50 force lightning against dual wield ataru form, but it's valid nonetheless. It's also kind of the whole point of the original trilogy, that love can conquer evil. The Emperor miscalculated by thinking he could turn Luke to the dark side, and he paid with his life. Luke beat him. Plain and simple.

 

Excellent point!

What I don't get is how people can think Palpatine is so powerful. 1. He couldn't figure out that Master Poof was the Death Star's chef. 2. It took two weeks for him to figure out that the first Death Star was destroyed. Need I go on?

What I don't get is how people can think Palpatine is so powerful. 1. He couldn't figure out that Master Poof was the Death Star's chef. 2. It took two weeks for him to figure out that the first Death Star was destroyed. Need I go on?

 

Lol, but he did sense that Master Poof didn't give him and Vader crackers!

Lol, but he did sense that Master Poof didn't give him and Vader crackers!

 

At least he has priorities. But you'd think he would be suspicious. I mean Poof was the only guy with a small head on a stick working for him.

Sidious had sith training and was all official and such. Luke didn't have any real formal training... seems one-sided.

 

"Naturals" quite often best the "well-trained expert"...

First of, I don't think "Sidius" is the most powerful sith. I'd put Bane up there when he was in his prime before he fought Zannah the last time. Also considering Bane and his "rule of two", Sidious did not prove stronger then his last master. Broke the fundamental rule that made the "rule of two" superior over all others, by poisoning his master and not facing him.

 

Second, if you read the novels Luke during his prime would destroy Sidius. Back during the movies or even lets say before the new jedi order novels. Luke would loose hands down. Its not much of a topic realy Luke is a BA in the novels.

 

But in my opinion where the novels stand now, Luke in his prime is the single most powerful force user, outside beings like Zonama Sekot, "the ones" featured in the clone wars series and legacy era, and perhaps the "celestials" in fact anything around 30,000 BBY ish doesn't count when I put Luke as the strongest. He may have not learned all the fancy tricks that were lost after so many Jedi vs Sith wars. But looking at all he accomplished hes pretty powerful.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Stephenjdoug