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How many subscriptions SWTOR still have?


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ok i see the problem. You think MMOs have to have WoWs numbers to be succesful. sorry kid but you are wrong.

 

No, I don't.

 

Companies like Bioware EA do though, that is the problem. :(

 

(and you know if you have to resort to insults like "kid" you've already lost the debate :csw_yoda:)

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No, I don't.

 

Companies like Bioware EA do though, that is the problem. :(

 

(and you know if you have to resort to insults like "kid" you've already lost the debate :csw_yoda:)

 

listen kid i'm pretty sure that LotrO, EQ2, and Rift weren't made by EA.

 

You yourself said that EQ2 was made BEFORE WoW so how come you think it is a failure? It wasn't designed with the desire to get millions of subs. It's also been around for over 8 years and had 9 FULL expansion packs. Yeah that's pretty succesful. Now we know that it was succesful because of what SOE does to it's MMOs that aren't succesful. Look at Vanguard Online. They pulled the staff from it and never released an expansion. SWG after the CU and NGE they stopped making expansions for it. However EQ2 has recieved a new expansion every year.

 

LotrO also has had 4 expansion packs and caused Turbine Studios to grow.

 

Rift just released it's first expansion pack. The company that makes it has never had to fire employees. In fact it has only hired employees since the launch of Rift. I would say that is pretty succesful.

 

But don't let facts get in the way of your inexperience kid.

 

 

 

 

So I leave it up to you now. Name an innovative MMORPG that has been succesful

Edited by jarjarloves
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listen kid i'm pretty sure that LotrO, EQ2, and Rift weren't made by EA.

 

You yourself said that EQ2 was made BEFORE WoW so how come you think it is a failure? It wasn't designed with the desire to get millions of subs. It's also been around for over 8 years and had 9 FULL expansion packs. Yeah that's pretty succesful. Now we know that it was succesful because of what SOE does to it's MMOs that aren't succesful. Look at Vanguard Online. They pulled the staff from it and never released an expansion. SWG after the CU and NGE they stopped making expansions for it. However EQ2 has recieved a new expansion every year.

 

LotrO also has had 4 expansion packs and caused Turbine Studios to grow.

 

Rift just released it's first expansion pack. The company that makes it has never had to fire employees. In fact it has only hired employees since the launch of Rift. I would say that is pretty succesful.

 

But don't let facts get in the way of your inexperience kid.

 

Your ignorance is shocking, pal.

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Yup G is right

 

EQ2, while a much superior game then WOW, is not considered a market success. It had stronger then WOW numbers for first few months (mostly because it was a much nicer game to look at, plus it had original EQ followers trying game) and then WOW changed its marketting direction and rest is history. EQ2 however failed to reach the numbers that was originally projected for it.

 

LOTRO gets mentioned alot by people that dont understand the genre. *shrugs* I dont see any developers or industry people talking about it or imitating it in any manner though. Guess success here is in eyes of beholder.

 

RIFT was a complete and utter flop in its first year and anyone claiming differently is crazy. Rift couldnt maintain subscribers for more then 2 months at a time and after the first year was up they had used up pretty much their entire potential subscriber pool. RIFT however listened to the feedback and has huge design changes in this most recent expansion, changing many core design from what launched.

 

Strangly enough I was a fan of Rift and beta tested it and bought pre order, and was gone 6 weeks later as had seen and done all the content (both sides). Much like everyone else I knew that played game. Trion is betting heavy on the new expansion that they can draw subscribers back to RIFT.

 

Fact is no title since before WOW (WOW had nothing new either, was rehashed stuff with bad graphics and dumbed down game play) has been all that creative.

 

RIFT gets a nod for RIFT content. While done before it was done excellently well in RIFT.

 

Really the last game I can think of that really shocked the MMORPG genre (and was successful) was DAoC with their RVR system.

 

EQ2 did great with mentoring, crafting, houseing, and seasonal events. But game wasnt overly successful in the long run.

 

The thing is, devs dont really need to reinvent the wheel.

They just need to stop looking to copy WOW and start looking at what was successful before WOW and why.

 

This genre started in 1991 on AOL and has hosted a ton of successfull titles long before Warcraft was made (forget WOW, first MMORPG was released before original Warcraft released).

 

There is ALLOT of great ideas from different titles over the years.

Devs just need to take their blinders off, stop guzzeling the WOW kool Aide, and look at what makes a great game!

 

WOWs success isnt that hard to figure out.

Make a watered down product

Hire some popular celebrities to name drop the product while on Letterman and Leno and Conan

Make some very creative advertisements that make people remember them

Culture fads will do the rest for you

WOW success really isnt about great game play.

Its like McDonalds, over a billion served, and maybe 1% of the billion will say its the best burger ever.

McDonalds is to burgers what WOW is to MMORPGs.

Low grade product/high grade marketting

 

But if your trying to make a great game that will have a loyal following to it

Then you need to do your homework and look at everything not named WOW and get feedback from experienced and knowledgeable customers.

 

RIFT just took a step in that direction and im really hopeing TOR does as well soon (sooner the better)

 

Said it before and say it again

WOW was and is the WORST THING to ever hit the MMORPG genre and were STILL trying to recover from its long lasting effects.

 

Besides, why would anyone come to TOR/RIFT/Who Ever for a WOWish game experience when they can goto WOW and all its expansions and updates for the genuine experience?

 

The genre is not looking for the next WOW

Its looking for the next great game

The two are NOT the same thing

 

I was going to respond, point for point, while pointing out your grammar and spelling, but I don't really have the patience for that this morning.

 

You almost had a decent point, but you spent too much time crying about how bad WOW is to make anyone think you're being objective. I can't take your opinion seriously. Try again without the holier-than-thou attitude and maybe someone will take what you said seriously.

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by all means prove me wrong. Tell me how RIFT, EQ2 or LotrO aren't succesful?

 

It's hard to quantify success in the MMO industry. I would say just being able to keep your game afloat and not go bankrupt is the most that most MMO developers can hope for. Even World of Warcraft with it's 80 Bazillion subs is still almost as harmful as helpful to Activision who has been looking to sell Blizzard for years now.

 

I think SW:TOR is successful to some degree, but that is surely despite the gross incompetence of the development team (I'm talking about the leads, not the guys in the trenches doing the coding...the Hickman effect is not their fault).

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according to the fanboys, SWTOR has eleventy gajillion subs and makes Bioware and EA enough to fund a gold plated deathstar

 

"haters" however suggest the number has fallen into the minus figures.

 

I dont think swtor is profitable to be honest, they will have a hefty license fee to stump up a month, the game is hemorrhaging staff and no transition to free to play has ever smacked so much of a cash grab, they are even selling "hope" with next to no information just before Christmas to make the spreadsheets look better.

 

I guess you are an economist.

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It's hard to quantify success in the MMO industry. I would say just being able to keep your game afloat and not go bankrupt is the most that most MMO developers can hope for. Even World of Warcraft with it's 80 Bazillion subs is still almost as harmful as helpful to Activision who has been looking to sell Blizzard for years now.

 

I think SW:TOR is successful to some degree, but that is surely despite the gross incompetence of the development team (I'm talking about the leads, not the guys in the trenches doing the coding...the Hickman effect is not their fault).

 

World of Warcraft makes 30 million dollars a month. Your are just dumb

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amount of subs: irrelevant.

The game earns its € with subs + cartel pts now.

And I bet cartel pt users spend more € than subscribers... and some subscribers even buy cartel pts.

 

Play the game, enjoy it, or leave it. Stop speculating on its amounts of players or subscribers.

And at all the "WoW here, WoW there" guys: in 5 years from now WoW will be burried, not by another game, but by Blizzards new project. WoW is already virtually dead anyway.

 

Enjoy what you play because you like it, not because of its NASDAQ ranking. *sigh*

Edited by Draksen
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Hey, guys, I am writing this in search of a small bit of info I haven´t been able to find. Everything I say in this post is based on outdated information, so it is probably wrong/innacurate by now.

 

Way back in 2011, it was said that SWTOR would be "very profitable" if it managed to hit 500k active subs. This was said in answer to a question if the dev expected Tor to dethrone WoW.

 

As far as I know, SWTOR had a peak of 2,5 million active subscriptions, and then this number started to dwindle rapidly, as more and more players finished the calss storylines.

 

Question is: how many active subscriptions TOR has today? I think it must be 300k tops, otherwise a transition to F2P wouldn´t be implemented so quickly. Also, is the number of subs finally stable? Or it still continues to drop?

 

Anyone knows the answer?

 

We obviously can't know the answer to that question. If you'll look, you will notice that the servers are loaded with players now, and at certain times, the servers are all full. EAWare may have to reopen some of the servers they closed about 5 months ago.

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listen kid i'm pretty sure that LotrO, EQ2, and Rift weren't made by EA.

 

You yourself said that EQ2 was made BEFORE WoW so how come you think it is a failure? It wasn't designed with the desire to get millions of subs. It's also been around for over 8 years and had 9 FULL expansion packs. Yeah that's pretty succesful. Now we know that it was succesful because of what SOE does to it's MMOs that aren't succesful. Look at Vanguard Online. They pulled the staff from it and never released an expansion. SWG after the CU and NGE they stopped making expansions for it. However EQ2 has recieved a new expansion every year.

 

LotrO also has had 4 expansion packs and caused Turbine Studios to grow.

 

Rift just released it's first expansion pack. The company that makes it has never had to fire employees. In fact it has only hired employees since the launch of Rift. I would say that is pretty succesful.

 

But don't let facts get in the way of your inexperience kid.

 

 

 

 

So I leave it up to you now. Name an innovative MMORPG that has been succesful

 

 

Repeatly trying to insult someone doesn't make you anymore right, as I've said resorting to it mean you KNOW you've lost the debate, it just make you look rather silly. :)

 

Again, can you name ANY MMORPG that has been "successful" since WoW?

 

None of the above count by the definations Bioware EA and such use.

 

 

 

 

Innovative MMORPGs that were "successful" (IMO) were UO, EQ1, AC, SWG (to a degree) and EvE, but again none of these have the "success" that companies are trying to achieve when they repeatedly copy WoW.

 

Indeed by the definition of "success" Bioware EA was working under, there has only ever been one "successful" MMORPG - WoW. :rolleyes:

Edited by Goretzu
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Repeatly trying to insult someone doesn't make you anymore right, as I've said resorting to it mean you KNOW you've lost the debate, it just make you look rather silly. :)

 

Again, can you name ANY MMORPG that has been "successful" since WoW?

 

None of the above count by the definations Bioware EA and such use.

 

 

 

 

Innovative MMORPGs that were "successful" (IMO) were UO, EQ1, AC, SWG (to a degree) and EvE, but again none of these have the "success" that companies are trying to achieve when they repeatedly copy WoW.

 

Indeed by the definition of "success" Bioware EA was working under, there has only ever been one "successful" MMORPG - WoW. :rolleyes:

 

..... wait so you are gauging EQ2, LotrO, and Rift's success by what Bioware and EA say? and not by the companies that run them??? I'm not insulting you I am just addressing you as you are because only a kid would act like you do.

 

But let's play your silly game.

 

Tell me what Bioware/EA currently says success is. Obviously you must know what that means because you want me to find one that fits that definition.

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..... wait so you are gauging EQ2, LotrO, and Rift's success by what Bioware and EA say? and not by the companies that run them??? I'm not insulting you I am just addressing you as you are because only a kid would act like you do.

 

But let's play your silly game.

 

Tell me what Bioware/EA currently says success is. Obviously you must know what that means because you want me to find one that fits that definition.

 

 

Trying to "justify" your insults now only makes you look sillier, just learn your lesson instead. :)

 

 

Again I am gauging nothing, I am simply stating what the MMORPG companies are after when they endlessly copy WoW and don't innovate instead.

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Trying to "justify" your insults now only makes you look sillier, just learn your lesson instead. :)

 

 

Again I am gauging nothing, I am simply stating what the MMORPG companies are after when they endlessly copy WoW and don't innovate instead.

no you are trying to say every MMO is not a success because it didn't get WoWs numbers.

 

Even though I proved you wrong. Sorry but Turbine, Trion, and SOE have their OWN ways to measurments of success. I guarentee if they didn't meat those numbers they wouldn't continue to put lots of money into the games in the form of expansions.

 

I showed you 3 MMOs that have all been sucessful post WoW. Now where is that innovative succesful post WoW MMO?

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no you are trying to say every MMO is not a success because it didn't get WoWs numbers.

 

Even though I proved you wrong. Sorry but Turbine, Trion, and SOE have their OWN ways to measurments of success. I guarentee if they didn't meat those numbers they wouldn't continue to put lots of money into the games in the form of expansions.

 

I showed you 3 MMOs that have all been sucessful post WoW. Now where is that innovative succesful post WoW MMO?

 

No, again I am not saying that, I am saying that is what the companies making MMORPGs since WoW are after. :)

 

Which is why they are copying rather than innovating.

 

As things stand we're in a death spiral with MMORPGs just trying to copy WoW and being less and less successful with every try.

 

Only innovation can push the MMORPG market forward and indeed is the only thing ever likely TO "succeed" like WoW. :csw_yoda:

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Calling this game a success or failure is speculative, but it's not a stretch IMO to say it probably did not meet expectations.

 

There seems to be a tide around the net against some of the features of the market. At the moment I believe the market is the best factor to draw players, and this concerns me. Sub numbers are not as relevant as they were prior to F2P IMO.

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What is considered well over 500k? 501k? 550k? To think that since the last investor call there has been no drop in subs is ridiculous.

 

actually seeing as there has been a HUGE increase in players i would say there is a increase in subs. You are also wrong on why they won't releve the next sub numbers because now that they are a hybrid model subscriber numbers doesn't mean anything. it's all about the the total income ie cash shop and subs. Which i guarnetee is WAY up

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No, again I am not saying that, I am saying that is what the companies making MMORPGs since WoW are after. :)

 

Which is why they are copying rather than innovating.

 

As things stand we're in a death spiral with MMORPGs just trying to copy WoW and being less and less successful with every try.

 

Only innovation can push the MMORPG market forward and indeed is the only thing ever likely TO "succeed" like WoW. :csw_yoda:

then by all means.

 

What is Trions definition of success?

 

What is Turbines definition of success?

 

What is SOE's definition of success?

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actually seeing as there has been a HUGE increase in players i would say there is a increase in subs. You are also wrong on why they won't releve the next sub numbers because now that they are a hybrid model subscriber numbers doesn't mean anything. it's all about the the total income ie cash shop and subs. Which i guarnetee is WAY up

 

They said subs were going up after F2P, but they'd almost certainly dropped to 500,000 or below before F2P.

 

They are almost certainly making a lot of money with Gambling Boxes though, but it's the sustainability that is the issue, not the F2P surge what was bound to happen.

 

then by all means.

 

What is Trions definition of success?

 

What is Turbines definition of success?

 

What is SOE's definition of success?

 

All of the were, I think, aiming at WoW, certainly SoE is using that sort of language with its new MMORPG (which may well be somewhat innovative :eek:).

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They said subs were going up after F2P, but they'd almost certainly dropped to 500,000 or below before F2P.

 

They are almost certainly making a lot of money with Gambling Boxes though, but it's the sustainability that is the issue, not the F2P surge what was bound to happen.

 

 

 

All of the were, I think, aiming at WoW, certainly SoE is using that sort of language with its new MMORPG (which may well be somewhat innovative :eek:).

 

what proof do you have they went under 500k?

 

key word YOU THINK. What proof do you have that's what they were aiming for?

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This what was told to me by a friend who just left EA to work for PWE.

 

It doesn't matter, back when we released numbers we were called liars, if we give any information we will be accused of spinning, the game has never been unprofitable and today it is extremely profitable, the bean counters are happy they are actually adding staff that's all that matters.

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So, according to posters opinion, SWTOR amount of active subscripstions is between 300k-600k.

 

An average of 450k then? WoW. less than 20% of the top number.:(:(

 

Not sure about how I feel about this... I wanted this game to be the next WoW, you know... What did we do wrong?:(

 

As a subscriber, I can tell you where I think the game went wrong.

 

1) I think it should of set the timeline for after RotJ and not thousands of years before. As a fan of Star Wars, but not a HARDCORE FAN, I'm actually saddened that I can't have such things as an X-Wing Fighter or an R2 Unit droid.

 

2) While the storyline concept is awesome! There was one flaw with it. I've run my Sith Inquisitor to 50. Now on any other character, the only difference in missions is the class storyline missions (If I dont decide to roll another SI to try out the other AC). From a PvE standpoint, I have no variation on the regular quests I can take to level up. This is fine for the early levels, but when it gets to mid-late levels, they should have had some more variations in the regular PvE quests.

 

3) They did a hardline between Empire and Republic and the classes. Maybe I'd rather have a IA who uses a pistol and vibro knife and not a blaster rifle (nevermind the fact that cutscenes for IA show a blaster pistol everytime, even though it's not even an option). Basically, whether or not one is an RPer, players have concepts in mind for their SW character, and TOR came out and limited them a bit.

 

4) Races and classes. I was with TOR int he beginning, but actually left untill the cashshop came out, because I hated the fact that I couldn't have the race I wanted to play with the class I wanted to play. I know I'm not the only one. That should have never been a limiting factor.

 

5) Content. Now I'm leniant on this, as I know MMOs need time to get to that point, and need a loyal playerbase to get there. Sadly, a lot of players now a days arent that patient. And they'll leave for the new shiney.

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So... constant updates with new pve and pvp content.... a new expansion on the way... tons of money being spent on cartel coins.... yep, those sure are signs of a doomed mmo... lol

 

How many more times does this thread need to be posted? Can't we just sticky one so that people will stop?

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