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Chosen one: Luke, or anakin?


Grayer

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I'm surprised that no one here subscribes to the "Unifying Force". The fact that the force doesn't take sides should be apparent if you look at the entire cannon as a whole.

 

I would even make the argument that Luke was between "alignments" much the same as Jolee Bindo and Qui-Gon.

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Anakin not only destroyed the sith lord who'd evaded the jedi for years while meeting them face to face, he was powerful, He also had luke and leia with his wife bringing more balance.

 

Luke is a good jedi like his father but he's not his father.

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Lucas' own viewpoints regarding what the Force is and is not has changed several times since the first film, mostly in accordance with his own beliefs and philosophical viewpoints. In the 70s, New Age mysticism and Eastern philosophies, like Buddhism and the Tao, were very popular, and so Lucas' presentations of the Force and the Jedi were greatly colored by that. As time went on, religion and philosophy began to take a back seat to science and reason, and this, in turn, changed the way the Force and the Jedi were presented. This is how we went from the Force being "...what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us, penetrates us, and binds the galaxy together" to a genetic condition (midi-chlorians).

 

Depends on which era of the SW universe you want to focus on as to which version of the Force you're dealing with. When it comes to questions of "canon"... well, there's an entire schema of what is and is not "canon", but almost all of it with a SW label falls somewhere in the canon.

 

Midichlorians aren't the force. It doesn't explain the force at all. The more midichlorians you have the easier it is to feel the force. It isn't the force. Midichlorians cannot exist without the force. The force is beyond them.

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I put forward the argument that Luke IS the balance, ergo Anakin fulfilled the prophecy when Padme gave birth to him. By the end of Jedi, we see that he is an equal measure of light and dark and that this balance of light and dark is the real way forward. The Sith adhering only to the dark side is bad in ways we all know about, but if you really think about it, being super pious light side is also bad news because it stops a person from being human. Remember that this was the reason Ani and Padme had to conduct their relationship in secret and a real driving force behind Anakin's turn to the dark side. Liken it to a super religious family that raise a kid that way and then when s/he is old enough, they go off the rails because they give in to temptation and overly abuse all the things they've been denied (I know a chick like this and she's mental :p) The only other two canon characters to realise this before the end of Jedi were both Revan and Jolee Bindo as far as I know and arugably, these are the two most well balanced and knowledgable individuals in the SW universe (even if Revan had to learn the hard way :p)
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If you read what Lucas has said his idea of balance is that the Light Side wins.

Which if you follow more then the 6 movies doesn't happen to long after as The Emperor "survives" the fight with Luke and Anikan.

 

But it is Vader who the prophecy is about as the prophecy speaks of a boy who is born from midiclorians, which is Anikan.

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remember the emperor basically killed 2 jedi masters under 1 minute (he lost to Mindu though).

 

I would believe he intentionally lost to Windu in order to get Anakin to join the Dark Side by betraying a Jedi before him. It seemed he could have escaped Windu anytime he wanted.

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I would believe he intentionally lost to Windu in order to get Anakin to join the Dark Side by betraying a Jedi before him. It seemed he could have escaped Windu anytime he wanted.

 

No... Windu really beat him. I'd be mad if he didn't. Windu is imho the 2nd best duelist below Luke Skywalker.

 

 

Mastering all 7 forms and creating a form himself, plus Shatterpoint. He was an unstoppable duelist.

 

Sidious beats with force powers though.

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The Emperor losing to Windu is one of the thing many people say but i believe is wrong. The Emperor was just playing with Windu. He wanted Anakin to see him as a feeble man that needs saving. Anakins final step to turning dark side was killing Mace Windu, which was all a part of Palpatines plan.

 

Thats what I always belived. If you remember the fight with Duco. Palpatine tells Anakin to kill Duco. Anakin says "its not the Jedi way". Palpatine says "he's to dangerous to be left alive". The fight with Windu and the Emperor is being staged by him, just so Anakin can here Windu say the same thing about Palpatine. Windu "Im gonna end this now" Anakin "you can't its not the Jedi way he must stand trial" Windu"hes to dangerous to be left alive". Anakin's fall is not to the Sith but to love. In order to fullfill the prophesy Anakin had to know both sides of the force to be able to bring it into balance. His love for his wife which Palpatine used against him came back to get him in the end through Luke. The circle was complete, the prophesy.

Edited by Malefik
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Thats what I always belived. If you remember the fight with Duco. Palpatine tells Anakin to kill Duco. Anakin says "its not the Jedi way". Palpatine says "he's to dangerous to be left alive". The fight with Windu and the Emperor is being staged by him, just so Anakin can here Windu say the same thing about Palpatine. Windu "Im gonna end this now" Anakin "you can't its not the Jedi way he must stand trial" Windu"hes to dangerous to be left alive". Anakin's fall is not to the Sith but to love. In order to fullfill the prophesy Anakin had to know both sides of the force to be able to bring it into balance. His love for his wife which Palpatine used against him came back to get him in the end through Luke. The circle was complete, the prophesy.

 

 

While i do agree that is a powerful argument,

 

 

Windu was just too powerful a duelist to compete against. Best duelist of the era. master of all 7 forms. His own special form, blah blah, you know this side.

 

The real problem is that the movie doesnt give enough evidence (books generally give a much better base for this argument).

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From what i've experienced in the star wars realm, i've come to the opinion that the Jedi are just as evil as the Sith. When the cult of the Sith came before Revan they were hunted down by the Jedi and they fled to Korriban. The First sith (not the race) were just Jedi utilizing the dark side of the force and the Jedi didn't approve and attacked thus making them the aggressor. I might be totally wrong but I remember reading this a couple times.
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the chosen one who will destroy the sith and bring balance to the force>?

 

step one balance the force 2 jedi (obiwan + Yoda) = 2 sith (vader + sidious)

 

looks like an equal equation if i remember my chemistry correctly

 

step two, destroy the sith>? check

 

in the end there was just luke, who was pretty much grey and his reformed order was no where near as dogmatic as the old republic, they weren't afraid of their emotions

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I put forward the argument that Luke IS the balance, ergo Anakin fulfilled the prophecy when Padme gave birth to him. By the end of Jedi, we see that he is an equal measure of light and dark and that this balance of light and dark is the real way forward. The Sith adhering only to the dark side is bad in ways we all know about, but if you really think about it, being super pious light side is also bad news because it stops a person from being human. Remember that this was the reason Ani and Padme had to conduct their relationship in secret and a real driving force behind Anakin's turn to the dark side. Liken it to a super religious family that raise a kid that way and then when s/he is old enough, they go off the rails because they give in to temptation and overly abuse all the things they've been denied (I know a chick like this and she's mental :p) The only other two canon characters to realise this before the end of Jedi were both Revan and Jolee Bindo as far as I know and arugably, these are the two most well balanced and knowledgable individuals in the SW universe (even if Revan had to learn the hard way :p)

 

Incorrect. Everyone who thinks it was "Two jedi vs two sith" are completely wrong. This is from George Lucas. This is what balance was about. Balance simply meant. The sith are destroyed.

 

"The first film starts with the last age of the Republic, which is it's getting tired, it's old, it's getting corrupt.

 

There's the rise of the Sith, who are becoming a force, and in the backdrop of this we have Anakin Skywalker, a young boy who is destined to be a significant player in bringing balance back to the Force and to the Republic...

 

Then in the second film we get into more of that turmoil. It's the beginning of the Clone Wars, it's the beginning of the end of democracy in the Republic, sort of the beginning of the end of the Republic. And it's Anakin Skywalker beginning to deal with some of his more intense emotions of anger, hatred, sense of loss, possessiveness, jealousy, and the other things he has to cope with.

 

And then we will get to the 3rd film where he is seduced to the dark side..

 

Which brings us up to the films 4, 5, and 6, in which Anakin's offspring redeem him and allow him to fulfill the prophecy where he brings balance to the Force by doing away with the Sith and getting rid of evil in the universe..."

Edited by Rhyltran
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Yoda said that "once you start down the dark path forever will it dominate your destiny"

 

based on this I always thought that since Luke was able to to turn Vader back to the side of light Luke brought balance to the force.

 

I assumed that meant that the darkside had a power the lightside did not. It could turn you evil and you could not be turned back to light.

 

But Luke gained the power to turn people from the darkside to light. So i always thought balance was achieved that way both sides now had the power to turn people to their side.

 

but after much research and reading it turns out that

 

Anakin was the chosen one because he was the only one powerful enough to destroy Darth Sidious, then he died, leaving no Sith, the Sith became destroyed.

 

It was the Sith who unbalanced the force, the force comes from life, if no life exists there can be no force.

 

now that being said that does not mean evil can't return. People that are good can still become evil and turn to the darkside.

 

Balance was brought to the force, but that does not mean that it can't be unbalanced again.

 

Perhaps there is a sith prophecy about one who will restore the sith in the future.

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I'm stuck on this question: Is Anakin the chosen one just because eveyone said he was, or is Luke, because he saved the galaxy?

 

Luke didn't save the galaxy, Anakin did when he throw the Emperor to his death. Well it's one way of looking at it! ;) haha

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The Sith were a menace, and the Jedi had become stagnant and closed-minded. Anakin brought them both down and gave his son a chance to start things off again with a clean slate. Sounds like balance to me!

 

Again. Incorrect. Read George Lucas' quote.

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Again. Incorrect. Read George Lucas' quote.

 

I read it and I dont think George is saying the Jedi are the balance. He is saying the sith were just overpowering the force. And Luke was not evil nor completely light. He is more of a ... balance ... of the two. Luke was not really a true Jedi, he just had Jedi training. All George said was by removing evil/sith Luke brought balance.

Edited by Maligni
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Light Side is balance, Dark Side Causes Imbalance. So it was Balance.

 

 

Luke isn't the chosen one. Anakin is. Luke is what Anakin should have been. Anakin brought complete imbalance(Wiping out the Jedi Order) and then brought pure balance.

 

I agree that Anakin was the chosen one... however, during Anakins padawan through Knight age the galaxy was littered with Jedi and only 2 Sith at a time. Anakin, then known as Darth Vader went around the galaxy finding and slaying all the Jedi, which he almost did, except Yoda and Obi Wan... thus bringing balance to light side/dark side users.

 

Thats my understanding of it... I could be wrong though.

Edited by Gozinya
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I agree that Anakin was the chosen one... however, during Anakins padawan through Knight age the galaxy was littered with Jedi and only 2 Sith at a time. Anakin, then known as Darth Vader went around the galaxy finding and slaying all the Jedi, which he almost did, except Yoda and Obi Wan... thus bringing balance to light side/dark side users.

 

Thats my understanding of it... I could be wrong though.

 

I always understood it as like an early poster stated, that the Sith brought imbalance to the force by their mere presence. They did spend a very long time in hiding, waiting... And quotes by Mace and Yoda in the prequels support this theory..."The shroud of the darkside has fallen"..."I think it is time to inform the senate that our ability to use the force has diminished"...and of course "The dark side clouds everything"

 

It is up for debate however, since at the end of the prequels there was a literal balance. 2 Jedi, 2 Sith. However, 19 years pass and the galaxy is even darker than it was, and people like Luke only heard stories of the Jedi and had no clue what the Force even was.

 

IMO, what Anakin did in ROTJ brought the FORCE back into balance, not the AMOUNT of Force users.

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The EU is not real true canon. While it is accepted to generally be true in the end it is not canon on the same level as the movies. The books in my opinion towards the end do a very bad job of talking about the force. Hell, Jaina basically walks down the exact same path Jacen does but somehow its cool for her to do. The books aren't true canon because they have a bunch of authors writing their own interpretations which really contradict eachother in subtle but huge ways.
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The funny thing about prophecy, movies, legends, history...

Most prophecies are never interpreted propperly until the events have passed.

 

Lucas did an excellent job in this. Everyone runs around thinking they have the answer but it's not the answer they get isn't necessarily the answer they want.

 

Annakin does destroy the emporer which is what I would say constitutes restoring balance but the Jedi Order as it stood was completely destroyed in the process.

 

Those events did pave the way for Luke to recreate the Jedi Order. Probably why the council was so reluctant to leap on board with following the prophecy.

 

But, thats just my opinion. There are many people who think Nostradamous was a genius for all his visions. If he was true genius I think there would be ways to actually interpret his prophecies before the events unfolded.

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Without dark there is no light. There will always be dark and light regardless. Technically there were other jedi and potential sith still alive throughout all the movies just maybe not trained or known. Bringing balance just meant killing the emperor who was looking to eradicate the light side which would bring imbalance. If there was just light side then it would technically be imbalanced as well. It's really a silly topic if you ask me.

 

You are thinking of balance in terms of a scientific means. A positive and a negative make a neutral. This is not really what the movies were about. They were basically Good triumphing over evil. There was not room for evil to continue existing. Now the idea that the dark side of the force can be used for good would be the closest thing to "Balance". The problem is that when this approach is tried it almost always leads to the person doing evil.]

 

Another big thing that we don't realize is that characters in the movies can be wrong. Obi Wan does not ALWAYS tell the truth, and he does not know everything. The characters all have their own values and beliefs. The movies try to make the Jedi Order seem far more Homogenous than they actually are. Its hard to tell if the Jedi were all aiming to be the same with no emotions since the many of the characters express their care for each other even though they are Jedi.

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