How can you call this a fact when you have zero proof of this.

Are you for real? PvP has always been the bastard step child in terms of players participating and validated by the lack of any attention by BW to address anything as compared to player base very few people play. But, please keep your head in the sand and pretend everything is fine.

All the threads on the first page are related in some form to no incentive for playing / pre mades in unranked and discussion always comes back to people leaving matches and not sticking with PvP to actually get better.

Whether it is Premades stomping PUGs or not

Whether it is bad matchmaking or not

Whether it is a ton of backfills leading to these asymmetrical groups or not.

Whether it is ranked players coming into unranked to farm or not

Whether Unranked PvP is creating teams the way it is designed or not.

Whether you agree with how Unranked works or not.

Whether it was always this way and we never noticed or not.

 

The fact remains that with these new rules the casual players are leaving PvP in droves

The fact remains that Bioware has ignored the issues and players as usual

The fact remains that Bioware has done a little more to kill off PvP

I complete agree, Groups farming PVP instances always make the excuse that queue pops will fall if a solo unranked warzone queue is added. I complete disagree as does many I speak with who are casual players. If a group decides to queue for a match then they should be going up against other group players. Additionally, there should be no stat or win being used to place people randomly in a match queue. It should be first to hit the enter or travel to instance button back fills the remaining slots. Also Diminishing returns need to be added to all PVP instances. There is no reason that pvp should bolster or increase stats beyond that a pve instance does. 99% of all the players that do insane damage in a warzone will get pummeled if they use the same gear in a world pvp duel. Makes no sense.

1. a Solo match queue needs to be added to unranked warzones

2. Map selections should be added to Warzones just like flashpoints as some do not like the addition to deathmatches. If people enjoy death matches they can queue for that and fight amongst themselves.

3. Add an 8 man Ranked PvP warzone both group and solo

4. Any argument against these concepts is invalid and only continues to perpetuate the need for a few groups to dominate the matches 90% of the time.

5. Bring back losses to complete warzone match in all warzones. ( the two for wins) does not need to come back just a single completion for loss and a single completion for winning. The rewards provided for losses could be the same as it does not white crates versus green equipment crates or maybe even increase the reward output for winning a match over losing one. Bu the notion of spending 3 hours in constant losses and not a single mission completion is unfair to other paying subscribers who do not wish to be part of the bullying squads.

Are you for real? PvP has always been the bastard step child in terms of players participating and validated by the lack of any attention by BW to address anything as compared to player base very few people play. But, please keep your head in the sand and pretend everything is fine.

 

All the threads on the first page are related in some form to no incentive for playing / pre mades in unranked and discussion always comes back to people leaving matches and not sticking with PvP to actually get better.

And yet, 11 years later I can still log into the game damn near anytime of the day and get a pvp pop within 5-10 minutes, sometimes faster, sometimes a little slower if its like 4 am when most people are, ya know, sleeping.

Meanwhile in FFXIV, a game with arguably triple the population that swtor has, you can be in a pvp queue for 3 hours and not get a pop.

I don't have the numbers, so I can't make a statement saying something along the lines of "the fact remains blah blah blah" and neither does anyone else. However, from my own personal experience, pvp still pops with relative consistency and I don't really ever see the same names every match. Its usually always new people.

Diminishing returns need to be added to all PVP instances. There is no reason that pvp should bolster or increase stats beyond that a pve instance does. 99% of all the players that do insane damage in a warzone will get pummeled if they use the same gear in a world pvp duel. Makes no sense.

That's not how bolster works....Bolster brings you up to ilvl 306. People wearing 306 gear don't get bolstered. They have their stats itemized to be BiS......they would pummel you just the same in world pvp as they would in a pvp match.

Any argument against these concepts is invalid and only continues to perpetuate the need for a few groups to dominate the matches 90% of the time.

That's not how a conversation works buddy....And being in a premade isn't an instant win. Plenty of people out there are in 2 or 3 man groups just playing the game with friends.

But the notion of spending 3 hours in constant losses and not a single mission completion is unfair to other paying subscribers who do not wish to be part of the bullying squads.

No offense, but either you're REALLY bad at pvp or you're heavily exaggerating this. I have never gone that long without winning a single match. Most of the time I finish the weekly on Tuesdays after the reset and I solo queue all the time.

And yet, 11 years later I can still log into the game damn near anytime of the day and get a pvp pop within 5-10 minutes, sometimes faster, sometimes a little slower if its like 4 am when most people are, ya know, sleeping.

 

Meanwhile in FFXIV, a game with arguably triple the population that swtor has, you can be in a pvp queue for 3 hours and not get a pop.

 

I don't have the numbers, so I can't make a statement saying something along the lines of "the fact remains blah blah blah" and neither does anyone else. However, from my own personal experience, pvp still pops with relative consistency and I don't really ever see the same names every match. Its usually always new people.

Applies / oranges. No one here cares what queue times are in FFXIV. We're discussing SWtoR PvP and are on a 33 page thread (one of many) where the OP literally laid why he is done with playing with PvP.

And yes he can say "The fact remains that with these new rules the casual players are leaving PvP in droves" because the issue became such a problem that BW implemented a leaver ban. And that action in and by it self is an example of BW history of knee jerk adjustments to underlying issues that plague PvP

No offense, but either you're REALLY bad at pvp or you're heavily exaggerating this. I have never gone that long without winning a single match. Most of the time I finish the weekly on Tuesdays after the reset and I solo queue all the time.

I am just going to leave this hear from a different thread. Posted a week or so ago. As a solo player you can absolutely play well and still get screwed by match making and loose a ton of games despite playing well.

Base line statement. SWtoR is a casual game for casual games. If you want progression raiding and what not this isn’t game and similar for PvP. The same small number of people play ranked and the general population couldn’t care less.

 

MMOs and respective game modes within live and die by their population. And its current format by lack of rewards (wins don’t count) and some premades discourage new players from trying out PvP and actually getting good.

 

There are 2 types of “pre mades” – 1) play the objective 2) go full team death match mode. The TDM premades are toxic and turn players away.

 

Go look through the number of posts on this forum and you also have 2 types of posters / players. 1) that like keep group queue in unranked, but acknowledge TDM premades are an issue 2) those that don’t care and rather continue to rofl stomp their way through for easy wins population be damned.

 

Case and point majority of comments in this thread.

 

Quick disclaimer, played since launch on and off. Highest player is rank 91 with a couple 80s and quite a few 60-70s. Doesn’t mean anything other than that I do play a fair amount of PvP.

 

For example, below is my experience of 10 games played yesterday. Some breaks in between Solo queued each time.

 

1. Yavin Ruins Loss TDM premade on opposite team 3 players quit my team in first 2 min. but close game in the end due spread out map. Still fun match

2. Hypergate Win TDM pre made my team ridiculous score.

3. Voidstar Loss no premades noticeable close game, fun

4. Hypergate Loss TDM premade on opposite team 2 players quit. ridiculous score

5. Hypergate Loss TDM premade on opposite team 1 player quit. ridiculous score

6. Hypergate Loss TDM premade on opposite team no player quit. close for half game then stupid score

7. Hypergate Loss TDM premade on opposite team 5(!) players quit, back fill / quit and repeat. stupid score

8. Hypergate Loss premade on opposite team no player quit. very close game down the wire

9. Yavin Ruins Win no premades noticeable easy win

10. Hypergate Loss TDM premade on opposite team 2 players quit. ridiculous score

 

If I didnt stick to plan to play 10 games regardless I would have stopped after 2. Cause honestly, there was nothing fun about facing TDM pre mades when your team as soloers and some are new, under geared or inexperienced etc.

 

You can still get 10-12 medals and your 2million dmg or whatever, but what is the point? And if I was a new or inexperienced player I wouldn’t play PvP again.

I am just going to leave this hear from a different thread. Posted a week or so ago. As a solo player you can absolutely play well and still get screwed by match making and loose a ton of games despite playing well.

That is the sad reality for many casual players and the current setup and system doesn’t encourage new people to stay and learn when things are tough.

How can you call this a fact when you have zero proof of this.

You know who would have proof? Bioware. It's a shame they refuse to have any meaningful interaction in the forums. I'll point out it has been just about 6 weeks since this post.

I am unable to give out a timeline of when devs respond to threads as I don't want to make promises such as 'someone will reply on a daily/weekly basis'. However, I can say that I am helping the team keep an eye on feedback that is being posted. One of my highest priorities is to remain active in the forums (outside of posting) to understand community sentiment across the board.

Since then we have heard ... what exactly?

You know who would have proof? Bioware. It's a shame they refuse to have any meaningful interaction in the forums. I'll point out it has been just about 6 weeks since this post.

 

Since then we have heard ... what exactly?

I mean I can certainly agree BW is the only group that has numbers on it one way or another.

But that doesn't change the fact that we have no proof.

Bioware does speak, just because they don't ELI5 everytime you are confused doesn't mean they don't communicate, look at what they do ingame, what issues that are focusing on, recently there were several issues raised concerning crafting macros/bots around conquest as well as how new players were handled which made bioware quickly react and do something

bioware has the data and they will act on the data if its required, the simple fact that the current system has been in place for such a long time and combine that with the fact that bioware has said that they are continuously monitoring the situation only means one thing, the system works well

you see a lot of anecdotal evidence in this thread but in the end, its nothing but a small number of people sharing their point of view, perhaps biowares data (this is by far the most likely scenario) the system works very well, or better than any of the alternatives, for the majority of the playerbase

Bioware does speak, just because they don't ELI5 everytime you are confused doesn't mean they don't communicate, look at what they do ingame, what issues that are focusing on, recently there were several issues raised concerning crafting macros/bots around conquest as well as how new players were handled which made bioware quickly react and do something

Other than that godawful, perfunctory solution to deserters (the deserter debuff), what has Bioware responded so quickly about? I couldn't care less about conquest stuff. I have not read any messages about conquest in PvP. Maybe they did not catch my attention, but they roundly ignore the real PvP problems, which are listed below...and by the way, weren't the tacticals and utilities supposed to be a method of quick response to class imbalance???

bioware has the data and they will act on the data if its required, the simple fact that the current system has been in place for such a long time and combine that with the fact that bioware has said that they are continuously monitoring the situation only means one thing, the system works well

Bioware says a lot of things. Do you take every person at his or her word? I don't.

"Continuously monitoring the situation" amounts to bupkis when we're not informed. Silence is not communication. They probably operate under the credo: "When in doubt, do nothing."

I am growing less and less sympathetic to these developers when they refuse to share with us the reasons supporting their decisions. Being a developer is stressful because you're never going to please everyone, and you receive far more negative feedback than positive...but I am beginning to not care. They signed on for that job.

They slap one lazy solution onto an problem that has only caused more anger than the preceding one did, and now they refuse to even tell us anything except that they're, "continuously monitoring the situation." That is meaningless without action or explanation. And yeah, I think we're owed an explanation because we pay for the game. I love the game (still), but the love affair is slowly dying.

I don't want to read some player's explanation for the lousy state of PvP (deserter debuff, premade tdms, desync (which is getting worse), ghost gcds, the map bugs, the MASSIVE class imbalances and more), I want to read the developers' perspective(s) and what they intend to do about these problems.

Remember when class representatives were supposed to be a thing? Whatever happened to that? At least then Bioware was attempting to keep us informed and/or allow us to have a voice in the game through the representatives. I should have known it would not work because most people treated it as a popularity contest...it was kinda absurd. I think only a handful of them took it seriously.

I am just going to leave this hear from a different thread. Posted a week or so ago. As a solo player you can absolutely play well and still get screwed by match making and loose a ton of games despite playing well.

So let me get this clear. In your "silver bullet" of evidence post you cite 1 person playing for one evening. In that one evening we have 10 games.

1. Yavin Ruins Loss TDM premade on opposite team 3 players quit my team in first 2 min. but close game in the end due spread out map. Still fun match

0:1

Loss, with quitters. Good thing they're locked out to stop it next game

2. Hypergate Win TDM pre made my team ridiculous score.

1:1 guess it must be the premade carrying you

3. Voidstar Loss no premades noticeable close game, fun

1:2 loss but fun, your premade detector didn't go off otherwise you'd probably call this bad too

4. Hypergate Loss TDM premade on opposite team 2 players quit. ridiculous score

1:3 Good thing those quitters can't spoil the queue right? 6v8 will be a loss

5. Hypergate Loss TDM premade on opposite team 1 player quit. ridiculous score

1:4

By the way, AHG rewards you for kills so I have no idea why you'd complain about a high kill premade calling them "TGM premades" it's the point of the map. Good thing the person who quit is locked out.

6. Hypergate Loss TDM premade on opposite team no player quit. close for half game then stupid score

1:5

Close until your team lost. Must be a premade problem.

7. Hypergate Loss TDM premade on opposite team 5(!) players quit, back fill / quit and repeat. stupid score

1:6

5 leavers, once again showing why the lockout is needed.

8. Hypergate Loss premade on opposite team no player quit. very close game down the wire

1:7

Very close! How is this possible! Premades stomp all! Almost like there's varience and it's not one supernatural premade group summoned to farm you all night!

9. Yavin Ruins Win no premades noticeable easy win

2:7

Oh hang on, you can have easy wins WITHOUT A PREMADE? HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE?

10. Hypergate Loss TDM premade on opposite team 2 players quit. ridiculous score

2:8

More leavers, it's very hard to win with a weak-minded team regardless of skill.

The people leaving I'm going to ignore, the lockout exists to punish players like that and THOSE players are the ones messing up the matchmaking AND games for you.

In summary, you had a bad night, or you MIGHT and I know this is going to be a mind-blowing notion, part of the reason you're losing.

So let me get this clear. In your "silver bullet" of evidence post you cite 1 person playing for one evening. In that one evening we have 10 games.

 

1. Yavin Ruins Loss TDM premade on opposite team 3 players quit my team in first 2 min. but close game in the end due spread out map. Still fun match

 

0:1

 

Loss, with quitters. Good thing they're locked out to stop it next game

Oh, really?

I had two backfills tonight. One to a hopeless voidstar wherein they were ALREADY in the last room. I didn't even get out of the spawn before we reset. The next was a novare coast. I had maybe 90 SECONDS of the match before it was over. Explain how THAT is not punishing ME!

snip

Sorry...I was particularly piqued when I posted given what I recounted. But, no matter how you cut it, I ain't gonna be thinking well of this deserter debuff. Nope.

 

The people leaving I'm going to ignore, the lockout exists to punish players like that and THOSE players are the ones messing up the matchmaking AND games for you.

But is it really punishing them?

For all intents and purposes it's keeping them from participating in an aspect of the game that they were, apparently, not enjoying anyway.

If there were rewards specific to PvP like there used to be then a LO would work far better. But since there isn't, the LO really does nothing and isn't really causing any negative impact on players that drop.

Some sort of incentive needs to be added that would prioritize staying in the match and contributing. Right now, such an incentive does not exist.

you see a lot of anecdotal evidence in this thread but in the end, its nothing but a small number of people sharing their point of view, perhaps biowares data (this is by far the most likely scenario) the system works very well, or better than any of the alternatives, for the majority of the playerbase

But with the lack of any data, all we have to go on is our emperical evidence. All y'all may be absolutely 100% correct. There may be no issue with premades vs pugs. Timer lockout may be having a positive effect on PvP. We may have the same number of players as we did 2 months ago.

But you have no hard data either. So who is right? Me or you? The correct answer is it doesn't matter. My experience is that WZs are more lopsided than ever before. Queues are longer. The reward/time ratio is now abyssmal considering I could run GSF or Veteran Flashpoints. In absence of any data I can only go with what I see and what I see is

1) PvP has changed in a way it is not fun for me to play anymore most of the time. SWTOR is a game not a job so why should I spend time playing an element I don't like. I used to love PvP but now it is not for me.

2) I believe that these problem has driven a lot of casual players away from PvP which has a positive reinforcement effect making the problems worse. I believe that this thread has demonstrated that because from what I can tell those that like the changes or don't experience issues with the changes are NOT casual players.

3) Bioware has completely ignored the issue and us paying players OR the current system is exactly what they want. Either way I foresee no changes. There are many threads on the de-evolution of PvP so I won't go into that but I will say these changes are the most recent in a long line of decisions that have killed off PvP in this game.

If there were rewards specific to PvP like there used to be then a LO would work far better. But since there isn't, the LO really does nothing and isn't really causing any negative impact on players that drop.

 

Some sort of incentive needs to be added that would prioritize staying in the match and contributing. Right now, such an incentive does not exist.

bUt PvP iS iTs OwN rEwArD.

So let me get this clear. In your "silver bullet" of evidence post you cite 1 person playing for one evening. In that one evening we have 10 games.

In summary, you had a bad night, or you MIGHT and I know this is going to be a mind-blowing notion, part of the reason you're losing.

I normally dont play 10 games in a night usually 4-5. I was making a point of the experience of solo queuing the last 6-7 weeks and my experience as a solo queue player is that I am facing what feels like a lot of TDM pre mades.

And yes AHG is the one game mode that rewards kills over anything similarly as Voidstar or Hutball are the opposite. The point is completely flying over your head is that people are quitting left and right and not sticking to PvP. “All working as intended – don’t want those losers playing anyway”.

And as you so eloquently hinted I may be the problem. Thank you for you L2P and GETGUD advise. Clearly having 15 medals and sitting near top of the DPS charts in a game despite being tunnelled by the opposing team isn’t good enough I need to do better – doing dmg as a DPS and playing objective – mind blown.

I stop playing PVP warzone because of cheaters and the fact shooter characters were over powered in warzone matches, like they are in flashpoints.

When your on Sith Socerer an your being one shot through the force barrier then their is something very wrong and to be ignored continuously about this problem makes these activities less appealing.

It had nothing to do with casual players why many of us are not playing PVP warzones which for 6 years have gone down hill.

I stop playing PVP warzone because of cheaters and the fact shooter characters were over powered in warzone matches, like they are in flashpoints.

 

When your on Sith Socerer an your being one shot through the force barrier then their is something very wrong and to be ignored continuously about this problem makes these activities less appealing.

 

It had nothing to do with casual players why many of us are not playing PVP warzones which for 6 years have gone down hill.

If you’ve not played pvp for 6 years, how would you know if they fixed the exploit that would have allowed that to happen?

There is very little cheating going on in reg pvp these days. And really, the only type of cheating that is going on is in ranked and it’s not hacking. It’s people who win trade or ones that aren’t really breaking the rules as such, but know how to use the games terrible Dysnc or bugs to their advantage.

Sorcs also have some of the best defences or survivability in the game. If you go into pvp now and get one shot on a Sorc, I’d be surprised and say you’re doing something very wrong (like not wearing gear).

Applies / oranges. No one here cares what queue times are in FFXIV. We're discussing SWtoR PvP and are on a 33 page thread (one of many) where the OP literally laid why he is done with playing with PvP

I care, because it shows that despite FFXIV having three times the population of swtor that swtor is clearly doing something better when I can still queue for pvp in swtor and consistently get pvp matches with queue times that are only around 5 minutes.

I am just going to leave this hear from a different thread. Posted a week or so ago. As a solo player you can absolutely play well and still get screwed by match making and loose a ton of games despite playing well.

I can play this game too! Here's my list from yesterday and a few games today.

1. HB - Win
   
2. AHG - Win - Premade on both sides.
   
3. AHG - Loss - 2 leavers.
   
4. Arena - Win
   
5. Voidstar - Loss - Premade on the other team.
   
6. NC - Loss
   
7. Yavin - Win
   
8. NC - Win - Premade on both sides.
   
9. ACW - Win
   
10. AHG - Win
    
11. Arena - Loss
    
12. OPG - Loss - Premade on my team.
    
13. Voidstar - Win
    
14. OPG - Win
    
15. NC - Win
    
16. ACW - Loss
    
17. Yain - Loss
    
18. HB (why doesn't this map pop more often? * cries *) - Loss, but who cares this map rocks.
    
19. HB( Yesssss!) - Win, double pleasure as I was on my PT. Lots of delicious firepulls.
    
20. OPG - Loss
    
21. Yain - Win
    
22. Voidstar - Loss - Premade on the other team
    
23. ACW - Win - Premade on my team
    
24. ACW - Win - Premade on both sides.
    
25. NC - Win
    
26. Voidstar - Loss - Premade on my team.
    
27. Arena - Loss
    
28. Arena - Loss
    
29. Arena - Win
    
30. HB (finally broke the arena rotation) - Loss - Premade on my team.
    
31. Yavin - Win
    
32. ACW - Win
    
33. HB - Win
    
34. Voidstar - Loss
    
35. HB - Loss
    
36. AHG - Win
    
37. ACW - Win
    
38. AHG - Loss
    
39. OPG - Loss - Premade on both sides.
    
40. NC - Win
    
41. NC - Win
    
42. OPG - Loss - 1 leaver
    
43. Yain - Win
    
44. Voidstar - Win
    
45. Voidstar - Win
    
46. HB - Win - 1 leaver at the start when the other team scored fast.
    
47. ACW - Win
    
48. OPG - Loss - 3 leavers at the start, though people leave this map a lot. Don't know why, it's a good map.
    
49. NC - Win
    
50. Arena - Win - Premade on the other team.
    

30-20. Naturally I'm going to call this anecdotal, just like your buddies list. You can't just go "oh this guy had a string of losses so solo queuing or pvp in general must suck and the matchmaking must be bad." That said, I refuse to believe people lose 10 games in a row commonly, and if you're pvping just to do the daily that barely gives you anything then why are you pvping to begin with?

Also, 50 matches, only 11 of them had premades that were noticeable and 4 of which had premades on both sides that were noticeable. It could be more premades as many people queue without matching guild tags so you never know. I'd argue based on my own experience when I do join a premade that most matches with premades there's probably a group on the other side as well. I bet if swtor added what OW does and marks the grouped up people you'd all would probably be shocked how many games you have where its 2-3 people who are not in guilds together and just grouping up.

You know who would have proof? Bioware. It's a shame they refuse to have any meaningful interaction in the forums. I'll point out it has been just about 6 weeks since this post.

 

Since then we have heard ... what exactly?

But it doesn't change the fact that YOU don't have proof. So to make a statement like "the FACT is" is just wrong.

People would also be surprised how many people from the same guilds in matches aren’t in premades either. If you queue solo, you will often see people on your team from your own guild who have also queued solo. This is especially true if it’s a large guild who focuses on conquest.

It’s often hard to tell who is in a premade unless you ask.

 

I can play this game too! Here's my list from yesterday and a few games today.

 

[

50 games in 2 days and majority being on day. If i am being generous and put each game at 10min and 5min between games that's 12.5 hours played in 2 days (in reality you spend much more time in game than that) - and by your comment most of that in one day. Let's ignore my first thought - to each their own.

That was my list and reflects my experiences for last months playing PvP. Clearly your experience varies. But somehow my experiences reflect that of the OP and others.

Again, coming back to point in that post and the thread - reread OPs post "why i am done with PvP" - note the title- on this 35 page thread. Scroll up just a few posts to 342 - someone who PvPed and who is now not PvPing anymore. Mmmm wonder why????

You can find someone on every page or just go look at number of posts on page 1 of the PvP forum and the same 20 people come out and argue that the reasons those people are" done with PvP" are not valid. I.e. premades in unranked are not a problem. Lack of rewards in comparison to other games modes are not a problem. Losses shouldnt count and so.

But keep fighting the good fight

You can find someone on every page or just go look at number of posts on page 1 of the PvP forum and the same 20 people come out and argue that the reasons those people are" done with PvP" are not valid. I.e. premades in unranked are not a problem. Lack of rewards in comparison to other games modes are not a problem. Losses shouldnt count and so.

 

But keep fighting the good fight

While I do agree that I've said multiple times, along with many others, that I don't see premades being a problem but more a consequence of the state of PvP, I'd like to know where did you see peoples saying that there is no need for more rewards in PvP, or that class imbalance isn't an issue.

Still, I like one more thing about this thread now : Peoples are beginning to understand that if we can't have data provided by other peoples, then we just have to find a way to gather some ourselves.

That's what players do in a mmo anyway. They gather data, and put together a way to easily see if there is a problem with a system or not. I'm surprised to be honest that websites like WoWlogs and FFLogs exists with much more complex data analysis while here peoples are content with the few informations you can find on Parsely, which are more often than not just peoples hitting a dummy. (Even tho said dummy already shows issues for sure)

Still, maybe the issue doesn't come from premades in the first place, and maybe they are the consequences of bigger issues in PvP that should be solved first ?

I don't know eh, but it's not like anybody has the right answer here for now. But it cannot hurt to try and explore every aspect and issues of PvP before jumping to conclusions too early without at least some collected data to back it up.

While I do agree that I've said multiple times, along with many others, that I don't see premades being a problem but more a consequence of the state of PvP, I'd like to know where did you see peoples saying that there is no need for more rewards in PvP, or that class imbalance isn't an issue.

 

Still, I like one more thing about this thread now : Peoples are beginning to understand that if we can't have data provided by other peoples, then we just have to find a way to gather some ourselves.

 

That's what players do in a mmo anyway. They gather data, and put together a way to easily see if there is a problem with a system or not. I'm surprised to be honest that websites like WoWlogs and FFLogs exists with much more complex data analysis while here peoples are content with the few informations you can find on Parsely, which are more often than not just peoples hitting a dummy. (Even tho said dummy already shows issues for sure)

 

Still, maybe the issue doesn't come from premades in the first place, and maybe they are the consequences of bigger issues in PvP that should be solved first ?

 

I don't know eh, but it's not like anybody has the right answer here for now. But it cannot hurt to try and explore every aspect and issues of PvP before jumping to conclusions too early without at least some collected data to back it up.

Wow allows and supports 3rd party tools which even new players are likely as not to use (good luck getting everyone to use just Parsely here). And there are far more stats available ingame or online about people's characters such as pvp win/loss ratios for every battleground/arena, gear, achievements and specs. And of course there are lots more people playing and they do x-server. So... lots more data that swtor will likely never give us.