Fixed that for you, it took the most powerful line of the Sith of all time, hiding in the shadows and growing stronger over a thousand years to produce the greatest master manipulator the galaxy ever saw, then have him stack the deck so high against the Jedi Order that he'd already won, to beat them.

 

While I agree, Vader definitely had the advantage when he attacked the Jedi Temple. The whole idea that they were only brought down by a elaborate plan is hardly a testament to their strength. Their downfall had nothing to do with a full on battle, face-to-face like the Great Galactic War or the Jedi Civil War, they were stabbed in the back, no means of strength could have prevented their destruction.

 

The Jedi Order of the Old republic shouldn't be dismissed as weaker, if anything they were stronger, battle-hardened. The Jedi of the Prequel era had enjoyed a 'Golden Age' - 1000 years of peace. Yes they had time to improve their training and grow their numbers but they had no real enemies - sith - to test themselves against. The fact that Ventress defeated Jedi so easily, such as Luminara Unduli (I watched the fight recently, if Ahsoka hadn't intervened, Ventress would have killed her) is a testament to this.

 

Bastila Shan participated in the Jedi Civil War, so we can assume she had experience with sith - more than the Jedi of the Prequel Era. This already gives her an overwhelming advantage. Consider that during the clone wars there where, what, 3 sith operating at any one time. So we can surely say that many of the Jedi, including masters, had never fought a lightsaber wielder who actually wanted to kill them, and was sith.This could account for Ventress' prowess in battle against them. Bastila had experience, she would not be so easily killed.

While I agree, Vader definitely had the advantage when he attacked the Jedi Temple. The whole idea that they were only brought down by a elaborate plan is hardly a testament to their strength. Their downfall had nothing to do with a full on battle, face-to-face like the Great Galactic War or the Jedi Civil War, they were stabbed in the back, no means of strength could have prevented their destruction.

 

The Jedi Order of the Old republic shouldn't be dismissed as weaker, if anything they were stronger, battle-hardened. The Jedi of the Prequel era had enjoyed a 'Golden Age' - 1000 years of peace. Yes they had time to improve their training and grow their numbers but they had no real enemies - sith - to test themselves against. The fact that Ventress defeated Jedi so easily, such as Luminara Unduli (I watched the fight recently, if Ahsoka hadn't intervened, Ventress would have killed her) is a testament to this.

 

Bastila Shan participated in the Jedi Civil War, so we can assume she had experience with sith - more than the Jedi of the Prequel Era. This already gives her an overwhelming advantage. Consider that during the clone wars there where, what, 3 sith operating at any one time. So we can surely say that many of the Jedi, including masters, had never fought a lightsaber wielder who actually wanted to kill them, and was sith.This could account for Ventress' prowess in battle against them. Bastila had experience, she would not be so easily killed.

 

Sorry but you are wrong, the Jedi Order of the PT is flat-out more powerful by orders of magnitude over any other BUT the New Jedi Order, this is canon fact backed up by the fact that the Masters of the PT Jedi Order, crush any masters of any time before them.

 

Your idea that war makes a a Jedi stronger is the complete opposite of everything the Jedi are and stand for, conflict makes the SITH more powerful, the nature of the Dark Side is the strong survive, the weak die, the Jedi way and the Light Side is exactly the opposite, a Jedi becomes more powerful by becoming closer and closer with the Force, through much meditation and training, whilst conflict can make a more battle orientated jedi more powerful, it is not the best way by a long shot and usually leads to Dark Side temptation.

While I agree, Vader definitely had the advantage when he attacked the Jedi Temple. The whole idea that they were only brought down by a elaborate plan is hardly a testament to their strength. Their downfall had nothing to do with a full on battle, face-to-face like the Great Galactic War or the Jedi Civil War, they were stabbed in the back, no means of strength could have prevented their destruction.

 

The Jedi Order of the Old republic shouldn't be dismissed as weaker, if anything they were stronger, battle-hardened. The Jedi of the Prequel era had enjoyed a 'Golden Age' - 1000 years of peace. Yes they had time to improve their training and grow their numbers but they had no real enemies - sith - to test themselves against. The fact that Ventress defeated Jedi so easily, such as Luminara Unduli (I watched the fight recently, if Ahsoka hadn't intervened, Ventress would have killed her) is a testament to this.

 

Bastila Shan participated in the Jedi Civil War, so we can assume she had experience with sith - more than the Jedi of the Prequel Era. This already gives her an overwhelming advantage. Consider that during the clone wars there where, what, 3 sith operating at any one time. So we can surely say that many of the Jedi, including masters, had never fought a lightsaber wielder who actually wanted to kill them, and was sith.This could account for Ventress' prowess in battle against them. Bastila had experience, she would not be so easily killed.

 

1. It was an elaborate plan that brought the Jedi down. Everything that happened in the prequels was by Sidious' designs. He started a fake war for two purposes: Destroy the Jedi and take over the galaxy. The Jedi Order was caught flat footed. No one could have guessed what Sidious was planning and that's what killed the Jedi Order. the final stage of Sidious' master plan was swift. The Jedi Order fell in a matter of days.

 

2. Conflict makes the Sith strong. It is conflict that increases the strength of the Dark Side- through death and destruction and spilling the blood of jedi. The Jedi grow in strength through peace and meditation- by increasing their connection to the Force. If anything, conflict makes the Jedi weaker and increases the chance of young Jedi falling to the Dark Side.

 

3. Many of the Sith Bastila faced were mere acolytes. They weren't even full Sith. And Ventress has been trained to kill Jedi by Count Dooku- the greatest user of Makashi and arguably one of the most powerful Sith ever. Bastila may have killed many Sith, but Ventress has killed masters.

Apparently a lot of people never saw the original CW series episode when Asajj was introduced and became Dooku's apprentice.

 

Eh? Last I checked, she never became Dooku's apprentice he denied her.

1. It was an elaborate plan that brought the Jedi down. Everything that happened in the prequels was by Sidious' designs. He started a fake war for two purposes: Destroy the Jedi and take over the galaxy. The Jedi Order was caught flat footed. No one could have guessed what Sidious was planning and that's what killed the Jedi Order. the final stage of Sidious' master plan was swift. The Jedi Order fell in a matter of days.

 

2. Conflict makes the Sith strong. It is conflict that increases the strength of the Dark Side- through death and destruction and spilling the blood of jedi. The Jedi grow in strength through peace and meditation- by increasing their connection to the Force. If anything, conflict makes the Jedi weaker and increases the chance of young Jedi falling to the Dark Side.

 

3. Many of the Sith Bastila faced were mere acolytes. They weren't even full Sith. And Ventress has been trained to kill Jedi by Count Dooku- the greatest user of Makashi and arguably one of the most powerful Sith ever. Bastila may have killed many Sith, but Ventress has killed masters.

 

I'm not disagreeing that it wasn't a complex plan, I'm just saying it shows nothing of the Jedi's strength as Order 66 had little to do with combat. I can see what your saying about peace making the Jedi stronger, thats something I hadn't considered . Even so, Bastila does have experience, so she has a small advantage here.

 

Personally though I'd side with Ventress, purely because she is more skilled with a lightsaber. Although Bastila may have a chance of defeating her through the force alone, and perhaps with reinforcements.

I'm not disagreeing that it wasn't a complex plan, I'm just saying it shows nothing of the Jedi's strength as Order 66 had little to do with combat. I can see what your saying about peace making the Jedi stronger, thats something I hadn't considered . Even so, Bastila does have experience, so she has a small advantage here.

 

Personally though I'd side with Ventress, purely because she is more skilled with a lightsaber. Although Bastila may have a chance of defeating her through the force alone, and perhaps with reinforcements.

 

Bastila has experience, Ventress has the experience of duelling some of the best ever and living.

 

Case closed.

I'm not disagreeing that it wasn't a complex plan, I'm just saying it shows nothing of the Jedi's strength as Order 66 had little to do with combat. I can see what your saying about peace making the Jedi stronger, thats something I hadn't considered . Even so, Bastila does have experience, so she has a small advantage here.

 

Personally though I'd side with Ventress, purely because she is more skilled with a lightsaber. Although Bastila may have a chance of defeating her through the force alone, and perhaps with reinforcements.

 

Bastila does have experience, but Ventress has faced some of the best ever. That's an inescapable fact that puts Ventress on top.

Not being rude or anything, but what's your point here?

 

I'm just saying all these people saying Ventriss has little or no force abilities didn't see her in that fight, apparently.

 

She would rip Bastilla Goody-two-shoes apart.

There seems to be the idea here the the PT Jedi Order was somehow extremely powerful relative to the KotOR era Jedi/Sith.

 

While their knowledge of Force techniques was more developed, their knowledge of battle was laughable. Anakin and Obi-Wan had to learn the hard way how to fight wars, while Bastila Shan was trained into a Jedi Order that was fighting a war against a Sith army, one that had an extensive pedigree of experience fighting against Mandalorians and Jedi-led Republic troops. Revan's forces were well directed and formed around a core of battle hardened veterans from the Mandalorian Wars. Just to survive in the Jedi Civil War, Jedi would need to become experienced lightsaber duelists, and there is no crucible better than war.

 

At the time of the PT, the Jedi had experienced a thousand years of peace, without fighting against any large group of force and lightsaber wielding enemies. Their practical fighting skills were meager, at best. The real life historical examples of combat skills decaying during peacetime, only to be re-learned over the course of a war is enough to attest to this.

 

So, Ventress bested numerous Jedi who had no practical saber combat experience. Cute, she gets points for trying. Bastila had fought and killed Dark Jedi, Sith Warriors and countless experienced Sith Troopers. Contrary to what someone was saying earlier, it's not possible for Jedi to get stronger through peaceful meditation. They may find enlightenment, but not combat skills. Numerous Jedi became skilled warriors without falling to the Dark Side, and the only way to develop combat skills was... combat.

 

While Ventress may have been able to hold her own against Anakin, remember that he was still only barely a Jedi Knight during the Clone Wars. He was still apprenticed to Obi-Wan when the war broke out, and was a complete rookie to saber combat during his first duel with Dooku. Likewise, Obi-Wan was the only living Jedi during the Pre-Clone Wars era to have fought a Sith, and his battle was very nearly a crushing defeat. In short, the Jedi that Ventress fought and killed were poor examples of martial prowess, and while Ventress is clearly a skilled fighter, I doubt she could hold her own against someone tempered in the battles of the Jedi Civil War, when lightsaber combat was not an art form, but a way of life for those fighting the war.

*snip*

 

Read this: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=541525

 

Enlightened you will be.

While i do agree the PTO is generally better than any jedi order before it i dont think that it makes one overwhelmingly powerful just because they came from a future era. I find a few exceptions that could stand up to most of the jedi of the PTO (Exar Kun, Revan Reborn (not foundry Revan), Emperor Vitiate, Darth Nihilus, Marka Ragnos, (basically almost any ancient sith lord), I wouldnt put Satele Shan cause her feats arent as grand as those past names (she was a master and couldnt beat Darth Baras when he wasnt at the peak of his power but thats besides the point) that being said I think Ventress would win cause shes dueled some of the best jedi masters from the PTO and lived where u get Bastila whos only known duels she had were against Darth Malak, and an amnesiac Revan (whom she both lost to) both which couldnt light a candle to PTO masters im sorry Ventress wins in a not so close fight.

While I agree, Vader definitely had the advantage when he attacked the Jedi Temple. The whole idea that they were only brought down by a elaborate plan is hardly a testament to their strength. Their downfall had nothing to do with a full on battle, face-to-face like the Great Galactic War or the Jedi Civil War, they were stabbed in the back, no means of strength could have prevented their destruction.

 

The Jedi Order of the Old republic shouldn't be dismissed as weaker, if anything they were stronger, battle-hardened. The Jedi of the Prequel era had enjoyed a 'Golden Age' - 1000 years of peace. Yes they had time to improve their training and grow their numbers but they had no real enemies - sith - to test themselves against. The fact that Ventress defeated Jedi so easily, such as Luminara Unduli (I watched the fight recently, if Ahsoka hadn't intervened, Ventress would have killed her) is a testament to this.

 

Bastila Shan participated in the Jedi Civil War, so we can assume she had experience with sith - more than the Jedi of the Prequel Era. This already gives her an overwhelming advantage. Consider that during the clone wars there where, what, 3 sith operating at any one time. So we can surely say that many of the Jedi, including masters, had never fought a lightsaber wielder who actually wanted to kill them, and was sith.This could account for Ventress' prowess in battle against them. Bastila had experience, she would not be so easily killed.

 

You are absolutely right man! Not to mention that these "forms" are for to use the force easyer against your oponent, because the REAL masters (as Yoda) not use light saber forms, because the force guide his light saber. This was described well enough in the Darth Bane: Path of Destruction. That's why this Dark Jedi could defeat Lumia or Plo Koon... not like Obi-Wan ... and a little hard to see something like " Ventres" AND everyone in the prequel era could beat anyone... for example Exar Kun almost killed Luke and he is even older then Bastila, and Luke not in the Prequel Era. Pure Aurbere forget it every time that the Jedi Civil War or the Returned Sith Empire times the anchient times... and in these times were lost a lot of knowledge about the force, and yeah I know it because the Jedi, BUT the Jedi never used these knowledge!

Pure Aurbere forget it every time that the Jedi Civil War or the Returned Sith Empire times the anchient times... and in these times were lost a lot of knowledge about the force, and yeah I know it because the Jedi, BUT the Jedi never used these knowledge!

 

Because when knowledge is lost, no one will ever know of it again. /sarcasm

 

If you're going to attack me, try harder.

 

Edit: And I am quite pure. Thank you!

Edited December 10, 2012 by Aurbere

this is a bit of a necro

Because when knowledge is lost, no one will ever know of it again. /sarcasm

 

If you're going to attack me, try harder.

 

Edit: And I am quite pure. Thank you!

 

Never wanted to attack someone too hard, I don't want to be banned. Btw I am want to reason with u not just attack like one without a brain.

Edited December 10, 2012 by pbajnokl

Never wanted to attack someone too hard, I don't want to be banned.

 

Well the attacks are unnecessary and kinda uncalled for. Whatever. This is a necro'd thread so let's let it go.

 

Oh and one more thing about your previous post. Plo Koon beat Ventress with ease... while suffering with a broken left arm, severely limiting his use of Djem So.

I think you're wrong =P

most of the time with ventress the reason she survived so long was because she was a coward so saying her surviving fights cant really be used

but i do think she is a better duellist but bastila is extremely skilled in the force ( i think the youngest jedi to of mastered battle meditation (something was not seen in any of the films.))

 

Ventress coward? not realy what porpuse would serve to fight to the death if there is none to gain?!

But she nearly killed anakin and Obi wan combined if was not from dookus betrayal, she had them with force choke both of them.

she run away alot of times yeah mostly when surrounded and against odds , but the fact that she did get away proves that she is much more skiled then one might think. Also she was sucessfull many times in the service of the Count Ventress run away from Unduli and Ashoka, but she got what she had came for, the Vice roy who was their prisioner.

Basttila well she was a prodigal with great potencial just like jeasa is in swtor, but thats much about it. Not saying she wast skilled at all, for all i know she could well beat ventress but given of what its kowned about the two, i think its unlikely.

 

I realy enjoy ventress as a character particulary now that she is on her own.

Edited December 11, 2012 by Spartanik

Yes, this thread is Necro'd, and that's probably my fault for resurrecting it.

 

However, we have raised an interesting discussion with the concept of the "power gap" between the Old Republic Jedi and the PT Jedi. I just started a thread about Jedi teachings and how war affects them, so I'll leave further discussion of just which sect of Jedi would have more practical combat experience to that and other related threads.

 

Perhaps I should reduce my argument to this:

Asajj Ventress is a goofy cartoon. The Clone Wars TV series is invalid because ANAKIN BLOODY SKYWALKER trains a padawan? I thought he wasn't ready to go out and do anything like that on his own, Obi-Wan was still HIS master... the level of discontinuity the series creates between Ep. II and III is mind boggling.

 

No doubt, the story of the Clone Wars needed to be told, but the way it's been done to date was just a poor excuse for producing additional Star Wars merchandise and action figures. Thanks, Lucas, you greedy old man.

Ventress would win. As much as I dislike her as a character, she would win. She has dueled many members of the Jedi Council, including Luminara Unduli and Plo Koon. While she didn't necessarily defeat either of these Jedi in battle, she survived and that says something about her.

Plo Koon is a master of the Djem So form and a very powerful Force User. Ventress broke Koon's right arm by bringing an avalanche down on him. Plo Koon would catch up to her and defeat her with his left arm.

Unduli was a master of Soresu (not to the extent of Obi-Wan) and was able to hold her own against Ventress while her vision was impaired.

 

As powerful as Bastila is, she doesn't have the skills or power to hold her own against Ventress, who has killed many powerful Jedi.

I have nothing to add. She's just in another league, Bastila has no chances.

Yes, this thread is Necro'd, and that's probably my fault for resurrecting it.

 

However, we have raised an interesting discussion with the concept of the "power gap" between the Old Republic Jedi and the PT Jedi. I just started a thread about Jedi teachings and how war affects them, so I'll leave further discussion of just which sect of Jedi would have more practical combat experience to that and other related threads.

 

Perhaps I should reduce my argument to this:

Asajj Ventress is a goofy cartoon. The Clone Wars TV series is invalid because ANAKIN BLOODY SKYWALKER trains a padawan? I thought he wasn't ready to go out and do anything like that on his own, Obi-Wan was still HIS master... the level of discontinuity the series creates between Ep. II and III is mind boggling.

 

No doubt, the story of the Clone Wars needed to be told, but the way it's been done to date was just a poor excuse for producing additional Star Wars merchandise and action figures. Thanks, Lucas, you greedy old man.

 

If you want information on the power gap just check out the following link: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=541525

 

Oh and Ventress was created before TCW. And most of her greatest feats happened outside of TCW.

 

Edit: And can we let the thread die now?

Edited December 11, 2012 by Aurbere

Bastila would win; while Ventress has held her own against many, she has exactly just that; held her own, followed by fleeing. She doesn't know how to finish.

 

Bastila on the other hand is the kind of character, who always rises to the occation. It is not for nothing the council put her in charge of the strike team that were to capture Revan, the most powerful force-user at the time after Vitiate.

 

Their fight would be close but end with Ventress either fleeing or being defeated and captured by Bastilla. End of discussion.

Edited December 11, 2012 by Andge

Bastila would win; while Ventress has held her own against many, she has exactly just that; held her own, followed by fleeing. She doesn't know how to finish.

 

Tell that to the twenty some Jedi she's killed.

Edited December 11, 2012 by Aurbere

Tell that to the twenty some Jedi she's killed.

 

Yes, the twenty something blank cardboard plot-device character Jedi that were created just to help keep the franchise's body-count stable. I'm talking about genuine characters.

Yes, the twenty something blank cardboard plot-device character Jedi that were created just to help keep the franchise's body-count stable. I'm talking about genuine characters.

 

Master Fay is a genuine character and ventress killed her, an extremely powerful Light Sider with one of the strongest connections to the force in the entire galaxy, possibly even greater than all but Sidious and Skywalker, obviously Ventress didn't straight up kill her, as Fay could have healed slowly, despite being stabbed by two Sabers in the back, but it was an incapacitating attack that left an extremely powerful nomadic Jedi almost dead.

Edited December 12, 2012 by Rayla_Felana