As anyone who has qued many solo arenas knows, far too often teams come out grossly mismatched. Sometimes this happens by means of composition - such as when a team of 4 ranged is put against a team of 4 melee when they could simply be split up. However, what may be far more problematic is when game after game after game you get a weaker team, while your opponent is clearly stronger.

 

Here is one example of such a game: http://imgur.com/DvmuwzR

 

If we consider the ratings at the time of this game, we find this:

 

Count-Crochula - 2045

Somnax - 1874

Rayste - 1376

Kruth - 1282

 

 

Gaurex - 1283

Blackness - 1222

Acliptic - 1223

Nazra - 1475

 

Even on the surface looking at this you can see that one team is stacked and the other is significantly weaker. If we average them out, we see that one team has an average rating of 1300.75, whereas the other is averaging 1644.25.

 

Now if this were late at night and Imperial versus Republic and these were the only two teams available, then this would be a necessary evil. However, this was an Imperial versus Imperial match. Swapping either the two healers or Somnax with any DPS would have evened things out.

 

Moreover, this happens all the time; this is only one example.

 

This is a very large problem which is not only making games less fun and competitive, but is creating a vicious cycle of getting caught in lower brackets for some. It should be a top priority to correct.

The solo matchmaking system in this game is utter dog**** and is a reason why the developers of this game need to be replaced. In no world other than one of pure unadulterated frustration should players truly be randomly matchmade for ranked games. In no world should a team of 1100s be going against a team of 2000s and still lose even a single rating point for it. In no world should that team of 1100 beat a team of 2000s (by some miracle) and only gain 20 rating.

 

The lack of 2s, 3s, or even cooperative ques in this so called "Arena ladder" is so beyond broken that I can't really even justify wasting my time with it anymore.

 

If you are not a vanguard/pt with a broken hybrid spec, or an operative healer, you cannot begin to carry the amount of garbage that enters these games.

 

Players who do 11k damage overall, in dps spec, players who dont heal, players who just stand there and die.

 

You don't give me 2s, and 4v4 is a lesson in misery as only one real team comp will ever que.

 

Who thought this would be a good idea? They need to be slapped.

 

I cannot wait for Warlords of Draenor to launch with an actually realized and balanced PVP ladder. Say what you want about WoW's PVP but even if you shamelessly copied their ranking system you'd have a better solution than the garbage that took the ToR team 2 years to cook up.

 

I'm a very good shadow, a "Regstar" if you will. I can put out 250k damage and 70k protection in a game easily. But there is no way to compensate for the unbelievable stupidity that you get when quing in this game. There is no *********** reason it should exist in such a way.

I'm not particularly surprised.

 

Bioware's developers have proven themselves inept over and over again. Match-making is not a trivial problem - proper matchmaking involves graph-theory and a little knowledge about scheduling to prevent starvation (one player from never getting matched).

 

I would not trust Bioware's developers to implement such a complex system correctly.

the solo matchmaking system in this game is utter dog**** and is a reason why the developers of this game need to be replaced. In no world other than one of pure unadulterated frustration should players truly be randomly matchmade for ranked games. In no world should a team of 1100s be going against a team of 2000s and still lose even a single rating point for it. In no world should that team of 1100 beat a team of 2000s (by some miracle) and only gain 20 rating.

 

The lack of 2s, 3s, or even cooperative ques in this so called "arena ladder" is so beyond broken that i can't really even justify wasting my time with it anymore.

 

If you are not a vanguard/pt with a broken hybrid spec, or an operative healer, you cannot begin to carry the amount of garbage that enters these games.

 

Players who do 11k damage overall, in dps spec, players who dont heal, players who just stand there and die.

 

You don't give me 2s, and 4v4 is a lesson in misery as only one real team comp will ever que.

 

Who thought this would be a good idea? They need to be slapped.

 

I cannot wait for warlords of draenor to launch with an actually realized and balanced pvp ladder. Say what you want about wow's pvp but even if you shamelessly copied their ranking system you'd have a better solution than the garbage that took the tor team 2 years to cook up.

 

I'm a very good shadow, a "regstar" if you will. I can put out 250k damage and 70k protection in a game easily. But there is no way to compensate for the unbelievable stupidity that you get when quing in this game. There is no *********** reason it should exist in such a way.

 

quote all

The solo matchmaking system in this game is utter dog**** [...]

 

And that is why we need cross server queues. There is so much potential for balanced PVP in this game if only the entire player pool were connected. But yeah, not gonna happen, and so I will stick to unranked. Besides I much prefer warzones to arena so...

bumping this thread because bioware has no idea what ELO is and still just throw 4 random ppl in a WZ i do admit it takes longer the higher soloQ rating you have but you also get matched with a lot better players when your higher thus is the fast track to high rating.

I find yolo queue highly amusing.

1700 vs 1100-1200

Ofc you can win. Just L2P and H2F!

bumping this thread because bioware has no idea what ELO is and still just throw 4 random ppl in a WZ i do admit it takes longer the higher soloQ rating you have but you also get matched with a lot better players when your higher thus is the fast track to high rating.

 

^this

Edited November 21, 2013 by Glower

There is no any ELO in this matchmaking system. Its just one team of randoms vs other team of randoms.

As anyone who has qued many solo arenas knows, far too often teams come out grossly mismatched. Sometimes this happens by means of composition - such as when a team of 4 ranged is put against a team of 4 melee when they could simply be split up. However, what may be far more problematic is when game after game after game you get a weaker team, while your opponent is clearly stronger.

 

Here is one example of such a game: http://imgur.com/DvmuwzR

 

If we consider the ratings at the time of this game, we find this:

 

Count-Crochula - 2045

Somnax - 1874

Rayste - 1376

Kruth - 1282

 

 

Gaurex - 1283

Blackness - 1222

Acliptic - 1223

Nazra - 1475

 

Even on the surface looking at this you can see that one team is stacked and the other is significantly weaker. If we average them out, we see that one team has an average rating of 1300.75, whereas the other is averaging 1644.25.

 

Now if this were late at night and Imperial versus Republic and these were the only two teams available, then this would be a necessary evil. However, this was an Imperial versus Imperial match. Swapping either the two healers or Somnax with any DPS would have evened things out.

 

Moreover, this happens all the time; this is only one example.

 

This is a very large problem which is not only making games less fun and competitive, but is creating a vicious cycle of getting caught in lower brackets for some. It should be a top priority to correct.

 

There's no surprise here. We all knew stuff like this would happen in a system implemented at bioware.

Basically if you see in 2 or 3 games in a row just go play something else.

Is Somnax still playing? i thought everyone in the Shadowlands edition of ID quit the game.

 

More on topic, they should outsource matchmaking to Bungie because they know what they're doing.

Edited November 21, 2013 by MidichIorian

We also found that there was something odd about the match making system when we tried to queue two teams of 4 against each other, and got no pop. No one on either team had ever done a single ranked group match, (we really we just messing around on alts and with new members), but we waited for 10 minutes and never got a match. Since nobody had a ranking, we found it odd that the system would deem us "unfit ranking" for each other.

Is Somnax still playing? i thought everyone in the Shadowlands edition of ID quit the game.

 

Lol wut? We all transfered to Pot5 half a year ago. ID is alive and well.

Edited November 21, 2013 by ParagonAX

While I agree with the basic premise that the matchmaking sucks, you need a lot more than 1 game in order to prove your theory. If you had maybe 100 games, and it showed that there was a discrepancy between average team ratings then it would hold water.

 

But based on 1 single match, no. The data here is far too little to accurately represent anything.

I just stopped playing and went to the forums to post a thread exactly like this. Playing against some 1.7k rated players as a 1.5k rated player, with 1k rated players on your team at primetime. It's just so frustrating. When I am playing my Scoundrel healer, I am usually able to carry one of my own teammates. But carrying 2 or 3 others is just so *********** hard. It would be totally okay with me, if the other team had a 1.5k rated healer and the rest were just baddies, like on my team. I got a mando on my team, that hasn't even been listed on the leaderboards vs Kelduin (Nr.1 Merc World). What is this? There probably wont be any changes anyway. Maybe I will level a Marauder on double XP weekends so I finally have the "flavor of the game" class, but thats a whole other story....

This info would be inconclusive on my server. So few people play ranked that there are only 8 people playing. Of course the team are mismatched, if you don't have enough in the queue for more than one matchup it will always be horribly mismatched like this (sucks doubly when 6 of the 8 people playing are on the same guild).

 

The quickest "easy" solution right now would be to make ranked matches count towards dailies. Then more people would jump in and we could have a big enough pool to make ranked matchups possible in the first place.

In my unfortunate experience over 20 games now, it seems that in the matchmaking or less ignores individual player ELO. Instead it randomly throws 2 sets of 4 people together without balancing these teams. For example, I've had one match where the top player on the server plus a few other high ranking players played against 2 average ranked players 1.3 or 1.4k ratings and 2 unranked players ( my team). You can guess the outcome.

 

Other matches are similar where a team with players with a very high average ELO gets thrown against another team that has a Low average ELO. It seems that the matchmaker just puts dps against dps (or hybrids tank/healers but that's another totally separate problem) and other roles against other roles and totally ignores the players ELO rating. 90% of my games were same faction games and they were played one after the other so the silly matchmaker had ample time to attempt to balance the teams but it does not.

 

Not only is that a problem, the amount of rating you win is more or less the same even though the teams are vastly vastly different in ELO rating. Win a match against roughly equal rating/skilled players get +10. Win a match against far superior skilled/ELO players due to luck, get a +13. However if you lose a match and literally get roflstomped by a far far superior team, lose -18 Rating. Theres almost no incentive now to bother with ranked Solos if you are a average player except for the ranked comms. Even then there is no fun in it, yes you might spend 5-8 minutes of being squished, to get 30-60 RWZ for losing but not worth it if you just want to play for fun.

The main problem is going to be population. There just is not enough of a pvp population on one server to have fair games. You either have to roll the dice and play with higher ranked people, or sit around and not do anything while the system tries to match you with people of the same ratings. would be nice to see more pvp stats such as how many WZs are currently being played and the number of people currently in queue.

4V4 Arenas have done little but to show how utterly unbalanced the classes truly are.

We have seen similar posts on what you have reported in this thread. The rating disparity you have shown in your results is entirely possible, although very unlikely to happen on any consistent basis. I wanted to assure you that our team is aware of these reports and is tracking data behind our matchmaking to look for any potential issues.

 

Thanks!

 

-eric

 

:eek::eek::eek:

 

Dev response in pvp forums what is this I don't even...

 

Thank you for visiting us and please do feel welcome here, it's always good to see new faces here on the missing-persons forum

 

EDIT: inb4 I get banned

Edited November 21, 2013 by JP_Legatus

Another thing that should be taken into consideration is class and maybe spec. You know, it is ridiculous when you get 3 shadows vs 3 smash sentinels with a random healer in both teams.

It can easily get balanced to at least 2-1 1-2.

Another thing that should be taken into consideration is class and maybe spec. You know, it is ridiculous when you get 3 shadows vs 3 smash sentinels with a random healer in both teams.

It can easily get balanced to at least 2-1 1-2.

 

I had a 4 merc vs. 3 sorc match once (I think we had a random sin thrown in for lulz).

 

We Healed to Full and Made Them Pay.

 

But of course mercs aren't exactly an OP class, as DPS they're somewhere in the middle and as heals, well welcome to the sorc world of constant interrupts.

While I agree with the basic premise that the matchmaking sucks, you need a lot more than 1 game in order to prove your theory. If you had maybe 100 games, and it showed that there was a discrepancy between average team ratings then it would hold water.

 

But based on 1 single match, no. The data here is far too little to accurately represent anything.

We have seen similar posts on what you have reported in this thread. The rating disparity you have shown in your results is entirely possible, although very unlikely to happen on any consistent basis. I wanted to assure you that our team is aware of these reports and is tracking data behind our matchmaking to look for any potential issues.

 

Thanks!

 

-eric

 

I don't think the rate of occurrence actually matters that much. The mere fact this can happen once means it can happen any other number of times (given whatever circumstances lead to this). The problem I think that's being illustrated is that because this happened at least once, there's nothing preventing this from happening again and that's a big problem.

 

Speaking only from personal experience (which is really the only thing any player can do since we don't have access to the metric the devs do) there seems to be poor matchmaking. I can only offer up my own ranked queue history (as a healer, mind you) as a data point in the sea of player data points, but the fluxuation in my rating, I think, is far greater than it should be. The time between each match is consistently lengthy (save for the first days of the season), which would indicate the pool of players queueing is low, yet the average rating of each team is never the same between matches nor close to each other within the match (I check everyone's ranking before the match, but you don't have to take my word for this). Though this propels me to think that the matchmaking system throws the first 8 players of compatible roles together if there's not a match up in rating, this is purely conjecture.

 

As queue times are getting longer with each day (on my server, at least) something is clearly disenfranchising or dissentivizing people from queuing with the frequency they did at the start of the season. If the goal of rating is to create a normal bell curve with most players being average (which is presumably 1200, but would need developer insight to know their adaptation of the Elo rating system), the current implementation seems horrendous. If I'm in a queue population of similarly skilled players, my rating shouldn't change very much over the course of the day (~50% win-loss ratio), but being able to drop (or gain) 150 points in one sitting should only be possible if the I'm against players well above (or below) their relative skill. Statistically speaking, a random person has a ~68% chance of being one σ away from μ. But out of the 911 players on The Harbinger, 568 are below 1200, which means either the μ is lower than I thought (for instance, the median rating of all USCF members is 657) or the Elo isn't normally distributed (which is certainly possible, as USCF uses a logistical distribution). Any way about it, the system of scoring seems to have been a significant factor in discouraging people from playing. Elucidation on the part of a dev or community manager seems paramount in order to either clarify how their Elo rating system works, or possibly give examples as to how players might work their way up in rating (which actually gets harder the more games you play in the USCF system).

 

I have a lot of problems with the current state of pvp beyond just these issues, but I think the OP is bringing light to something that needs to be addressed.