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Denova - stuck on Firebrand and Stormcaller - Story Mode!


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Hey all,

 

Wondering if anyone can shed a little light on this for me, our guild doesn't seem to have the dps to down Firebrand and Stormcaller in story mode, we keep hitting the enrage timer around 15% and I'm looking for a few tips over the obvious get new DPS...

 

Our team make up is two Assassin tanks, a maruader, sniper, and usually two bounty hunters, our healers vary but they're not our problem,

 

Our current tactic is BH and Sniper on Fire, with the BH running around dodging rods, once the shields come up all dps switches to the mobs underneath them and the Tank of Storm runs around like a headless chicken.. namely me!... once the red circles appear, everyone hops back on the tanks and we repeat til enrage.

 

Are we missing an opportunity for more dps somewhere here? Should we have the healer dodging rods where possible to focus the dps?

 

just to eliminate any obvious answers, i have one piece columni, otherwise I'm rakata and above geared as tank, the other tank isn't far behind with his gear, 3 of the dps are pretty much full Rakata, the other is usually a filler but gnerally in columni gear at least and we continually clear EV/KP HM without any problems at all, and Zorn & Torn dont pose any problems either.

 

I'm thinking theres something wrong with our strategy... but i've no idea! Please help!

 

Cheers in advance!

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In story mode, what I've normally done is have a healer on the ground rather than a dps. I've done it with the healer on both the firebrand and stormcaller sides dodging the lightning orbs and dodging the missiles and never had a problem. ideally this would be a operative/scoundrel healer as they have the best ability to heal when forced to move, but I've had no problems doing it on either side as a sorc. This will allow your dps more up-time and increase overall dps (though, not nearly enough to contribute 15%)
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My group is able to down the hovertanks right around the same time they enrage (probable 2-3 seconds of enrage), and we've (sometimes) hit the enrage timer for Zorn and Thoth.

 

Meaning, if you're able to down Z&T before they enrage, your group probably has the raw DPS for F&S.

 

This said, is your merc optimising his dps while running around with the yellow reticle / lightning spires?

There is a certain rythm to it and while the yellow reticle is "locking on" him for a few seconds before the "hard" lock-on, he can certainly stay stationary and DPS, and just taking two steps to avoid the missiles blast. Same with the lightning spire (when the combat start the spire falls first, but as the combat goes on, it will come right after the hard lock-on). Your merc should memorize the pattern and take advantage of every seconds to maximize his uptime.

 

all the other DPS should be able to perform nominally (on Stormcaller they'll have to move a little to absorb the double destruction but it's insignificant, especially for melee dps).

 

Are the two tanks HP going down at the same pace?

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Meaning, if you're able to down Z&T before they enrage, your group probably has the raw DPS for F&S.

 

this is what i'm figuring and why i'm a little confused!

 

Are the two tanks HP going down at the same pace?

 

yeah more or less if anything the Firebrand is actually dieing slightly faster, I'm pretty sure the 4th DPS we've bought on the 3 occasions isn't pulling big numbers, I'm glad you guys arent seeing anything fundamantally wrong in what we're doing, we'll give it a better crack later in the week, see where it gets us!

 

ta for the replies!

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Be thankful you dont have our issues. We keep getting lightning spikes inside the shield. Dunno how. He targets the kiter consistently, then at random one comes inside the shield. No pattern or we'd plan around it. Cant seem to figure out why. Needless to say it's killing our chances of downing the boss. Which is sad, since we pretty much know we can take them, just that 1 random spike kills us almost every time.
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I'm pretty sure the 4th DPS we've bought on the 3 occasions isn't pulling big numbers

You can have everyone turn on combat logging and then after the raid Ask Mr. Robot how well your DPS did, that might shed some light on the situation.

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I don't know if you are tank swapping or not. We were having some enrage issues, and stopped tank swapping to get a bit more dps and got through it (yes, we know tank swapping is needed in hard mode, will deal with that when we get there).
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my guild typically lacks melee DPS, so this is how we do this fight.

 

Setup:

Firebrand group:

Jugg Tank (our typical MT)

Sorc Heals

Merc DPS

Sniper DPS

 

Stormcaller:

Sin Tank

Merc Heals (me)

various Ranged DPS (typically combo of Sorc, Merc or sniper) - People with long cast times do well for us, here.

----

For storm, we have our 2 ranged DPS stand on the left corner of the tank platform, basically right up against the turret. We then have our Sin tank (who is on the right corner, basically with his back to where the shield will spawn) move to behind them, to drop the DD on them, then he moves back. Super seemless so long as the dps know not to move, and to be nice and close so there is plenty of room for the tank to run and not fall off. During shield, we CC and burn down the 2 mobs in the shield, while the Sin Tank runs in his pattern to drop the lightning rods. He always finishes the drop back behind our shield, so he is in range at the end of the round, so i can heal him from within the shield. Our DPS run back to position just slightly before the red reticles happen, and then the tank and i follow suit.

 

For DPS, we have all dps, even storm, burning down Fire for the first phase (til the first shield happens). We kill Fire first, everytime. The one time we tried it the other way, his missile bombardment thing killed everyone, as where Storm can be tanked and healed through his enrage pretty easily (we found, ymmv).

 

The firebrand tanks group has a tougher time during the shield phase, as they sometimes get hit with random rods (as others have mentioned) and after they kill their 3 mobs, their shield drops and the whole group takes a large hit. Make sure you watch your DPS while under here to help out the healer. Dont burn them down too fast if your healer is still working to get everyone healed up. Coordinate. We have good luck killing Fire first (we also kill Zorn and Sorno first in other encounters similar to this), so hopefully this helps. We are overgearing these fights however, as most of us are in full rakata, but its more about execution imo.

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Having the dps on Stormcaller stand in one place and the tank rotate the turret to them in Double destruction as Aenene mentioned above works well for my guild, we also have a healer running around on the ground rather then a dps so all the dps are essentially stood still and free to just nuke. Combat logging and ask mr robot as also previously suggested may be a good idea for you guys.
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Assuming you're appropriately geared and are executing the mechanics effectively, I would ask your raiders to upload logs and see if you can spot the problem. It could be something so simple that they don't realize. For example, I've run into Gunslingers who don't know they have a sunder. That makes a big difference in DPS. It could also be that your raiders don't have enough accuracy.

 

It's the little things that make a big difference.

 

The only execution thing I would suggest -- and another poster brought it up as well -- is that a healer should be on the floor, taking the beams, while all DPS focus on maximizing their damage.

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  • 2 weeks later...

We get him down by now. Still doing the blue bubbles on top of them, but we can avoid them if we see it in time. Usually we have a DPS running, because the healers are still whining :)

Didn't get rid of the problem, it still occurs.

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The firebrand tanks group has a tougher time during the shield phase... after they kill their 3 mobs, their shield drops and the whole group takes a large hit.

Uh... no. Tell your DPS to stop AoEing/turn off auto target/unequip proc relics.

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Some areas of lost time could be:

- between the killing shielded adds and returning to the bosses.

If your dps are unsure when the AE has stopped before running back to the boss they could be losing dps time on the boss. If no-one touches a shield generator the shield will be up beyond the safe point to run back out.

 

- between sound/voice notification of pending adds and getting off the bosses.

If your dps are too slow getting away from the bosses to the adds they can be knocked back/slowed/damaged out in the open. This is lost time from dpsing the adds and getting back to the boss.

 

- excessive movement of dps on Stormcaller to move for DD.

If your dps are moving about to get double destruction they could be losing precious dps. You can stack your dps on top of each other in such a way that they get positional attacks and dont need to move at all for DD.

The tank controls the proximity to ensure the two dps or dps + healer get DD. They just swing the turret around to centre and back up slightly without dps losing uptime.

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In our group for 8 man we keep one of the healers on the ground dodging bubbles if you watch Stormcallers head you can see when the rocket comes out.

 

Man thing you want to watch is Stormcallers health drives the entire fight but you want to kill Firebrand first. SO top 2 dps on Stormcaller. In our group we rock all of the defensive systems 80 60 40, on the last one at 20% we have our range flip over to storm caller but only dps Firebrand until he dies then we all flip over to Stormcaller and wipe him out.

 

Thats been our strat in SM it also works in HM, we now down these guys every week.

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In story mode, I was usually the one dodging nodes in my old guild. I was Operative Healer. Can't say all healers can do this, but there is plenty of time to throw heals out and you are only moving a couple times between Shield Phases. Operatives/Scoundrels will easily have the least trouble due to their mobility, but I think it is completley plausible for any healer to be able to do it as well.

 

If you can keep your dps on the bosses full time, it should make it easier. Don't forget your ranged dps can still dps after the mobs in their shields are dead but the shield phase hasn't ended yet.

 

 

You may also need to make sure that all the dps are rolling appropriate specs and not just what they want or think works best, and that they are doing the proper rotations and priorities on their attacks. DPS classes can become very complacent in their role and not actually know the fullest extent of their abilities. They will need to be open minded about performing better and that their current set up might not be the best. Encourage practicing on dummies and checking their dps out.

 

Also, make sure you aren't tank swapping as it's not necessary. Incinerate Armor isn't that bad that a tank swap is required. Tanks staying on their initial tanks allows them to continue their own dps on them as well.

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have firebrand healer kite / heal it's easy to do. That will put one more dps full time on firebrand. Also having the tank on stormcaller move during double destruction instead of the dps helps alot also. You can also put the marauder in the group with all the dps for the damage buff. If that doesn't help then someone is seriously derping it and you need to gkick them :). I'd suggest running mox dps parser. Find out who your problem is if it persists after the changes i said. Edited by andretious
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In our group for 8 man we keep one of the healers on the ground dodging bubbles if you watch Stormcallers head you can see when the rocket comes out.

 

Man thing you want to watch is Stormcallers health drives the entire fight but you want to kill Firebrand first. SO top 2 dps on Stormcaller. In our group we rock all of the defensive systems 80 60 40, on the last one at 20% we have our range flip over to storm caller but only dps Firebrand until he dies then we all flip over to Stormcaller and wipe him out.

 

Thats been our strat in SM it also works in HM, we now down these guys every week.

 

There's also a sound associated with the bubble coming out. I don't know how to describe it, but just listen right before it comes... It goes blue spire --> yellow reticle --> blue firing sound (move now) --> blue spire.

 

You should be able to never get hit by them. =)

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I don't know if you are tank swapping or not. We were having some enrage issues, and stopped tank swapping to get a bit more dps and got through it (yes, we know tank swapping is needed in hard mode, will deal with that when we get there).

 

Tank swapping is not needed in hardmode if you have an assassin dps that can taunt during incinerate. I know this because that is how we kill them in hardmode.

 

To OP-If you have the bosses down to 15%, I wouldn't change too much in your strat. Get a bit more BH gear and download MOX Parser. Take your DPS to the bridge deck and dps the PVE dummy for exactly two minutes to see where everyone is with their dps. Once you know who needs to do more damage, work with them on their spec and rotations.

 

15% means you are doing a lot of things right. You shouldn't change your entire strat to try and get the last 15%. Change little things. You guys will definitely get them down soon. Just keep working on it and buying that BH gear.

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Tank swapping is not needed in hardmode if you have an assassin dps that can taunt during incinerate. I know this because that is how we kill them in hardmode.

 

To OP-If you have the bosses down to 15%, I wouldn't change too much in your strat. Get a bit more BH gear and download MOX Parser. Take your DPS to the bridge deck and dps the PVE dummy for exactly two minutes to see where everyone is with their dps. Once you know who needs to do more damage, work with them on their spec and rotations.

 

15% means you are doing a lot of things right. You shouldn't change your entire strat to try and get the last 15%. Change little things. You guys will definitely get them down soon. Just keep working on it and buying that BH gear.

 

Black Hole gear is not needed to complete story mode. If they are hitting the enrage, it is a DPS issue - simple.

 

I agree that you need to have your DPS on the Operations Dummy on the Ziost Shadow and see where your weak link(s) is / are and address the enrage timer issue where you should - with the DPS.

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What my team does for both Story and HM is we stack our two strongest DPS on Firebrand to blow it out first. 15% on story means it have only about 90k health left so if your two strongest dps can blow firebrand out quicker, they can join you as Stormcallers soft enrage is a joke.

 

Also, tank swapping is an ancient way of doing this fight. If you have a Vanguard/Guardian/Shadow on your team who can actively taunt while dpsing, they should taunt 5 seconds after double destruction is called on the other side. This off taunt should take the incinerate armor debuff and your main tank should pick the tank back up without having to swap at all.

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What my team does for both Story and HM is we stack our two strongest DPS on Firebrand to blow it out first. 15% on story means it have only about 90k health left so if your two strongest dps can blow firebrand out quicker, they can join you as Stormcallers soft enrage is a joke.

 

Also, tank swapping is an ancient way of doing this fight. If you have a Vanguard/Guardian/Shadow on your team who can actively taunt while dpsing, they should taunt 5 seconds after double destruction is called on the other side. This off taunt should take the incinerate armor debuff and your main tank should pick the tank back up without having to swap at all.

 

 

How funny we do the opposite for a couple reasons.

 

1. Stormcaller controls the entire fight, defensive systems is triggered by Stormcallers health so you should always know when it's coming 80% 60% 40% and 20%

 

2. Probably a bug but we start getting random bubbles if Firebrands health is lower then Stormcallers.

 

What we do is get Stormcaller about 5% ahead then we have our 2 highest dps stay on it. At the last defensive systems 20% we have are two ranged jump on Stormcaller for DD then we have our two Marauders on Firebrand we burn Stormcaller to about 8% then focus everything on Firebrand until its dead then flip back to Stormcaller FTW!

 

Once we really got into and realized what controls the defensive systems it's become really easy for us to do. Same strat for HM. Also we keep our tanks Firebrand at about 2O'clock and Stormcaller about 10 O'clock with our DPS at 6 ish on both.

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How funny we do the opposite for a couple reasons.

 

1. Stormcaller controls the entire fight, defensive systems is triggered by Stormcallers health so you should always know when it's coming 80% 60% 40% and 20%

 

2. Probably a bug but we start getting random bubbles if Firebrands health is lower then Stormcallers.

 

What we do is get Stormcaller about 5% ahead then we have our 2 highest dps stay on it. At the last defensive systems 20% we have are two ranged jump on Stormcaller for DD then we have our two Marauders on Firebrand we burn Stormcaller to about 8% then focus everything on Firebrand until its dead then flip back to Stormcaller FTW!

 

Once we really got into and realized what controls the defensive systems it's become really easy for us to do. Same strat for HM. Also we keep our tanks Firebrand at about 2O'clock and Stormcaller about 10 O'clock with our DPS at 6 ish on both.

 

 

Never thought of it that way, but every time we killed stormcaller first, Firebrands soft enrage is pretty tough to live through as it does his mortar barrage's until it's dead.

 

My question is though, if the defensive systems are based on stormcallers health, why not have your 2 weaker dps there to extend the period for dps to be done instead of your 2 best who will speed up the defensive systems from coming up?

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