And again, i dont know how many times i have to state this, different system, lets state that again, different system. We get 1 reward per day per run, the other system gets a reward per run, this system locks you into an advanced tree the other system allows you to be duel spec in the classes that have that available on a wider pool of classes.

 

And finialy, zero proof this works. Emphasis on proof. thats my problem, stating it works when the term 'work' is based on opinion not fact.

 

I see no proof that q times went down for dps as a whole, i see no proof that players didnt game the system to chain the rewards which increased the dps wait time.

 

The main problem with tors RGF espec whilst leveling is reward for using the RGF in the 1st place, its not specifically just tanks and healers that maybe short. Without statistics it could be a fact that whilst your waiting for an RGF you are infact a dps short for the specific run you are looking for. Im not stating that as fact as i do not have any but nor does anyone else bar Bioware and the statistics for the other system is held by Activision/Blizzard.

there are 11 classes in WoW.

there are 8 in TOR. (yes each advanced class is essentially a separate class, you just get to pick one out at lvl 10 instead of on character creation)

out of 11 classes in WoW - 4 are pure dps

out of 8 classes in TOR - 2 are pure dps.

the major difference is that WoW has 3 classes that can play all 3 roles - however, it doesn't mean they actually play all 3 roles. gearing is too annoying for that.

overall - TOR has 6 classes that can play needed roles. WoW has 7. its really not that much of a difference.

you are confusing the shared story with class.

there are certain rewards in WoW that are only once a day, or once a week.

NOTHING is stopping bioware from creating a separate flag for needed role reward IF THEY SO CHOSE and make it more than once a day.

I know personally people who queued more often almost solely because of the reward bag. I'm guilded with several. i was ONE of those people, I specifically respecced my paladin to tanking (even though I prefer to dps or heal on her), solely because rewards bag had certain pets and mounts I was unable to farm up the hard way. I also know people who said - screw it, a little extra gold is not worth it. and of course people game the system. do you honestly believe they are not gaming it right now in TOR? are are you so lucky to never get a group with dps who picked tank or healer because they wanted a faster queue?

its a bandaid. but its a bandaid that DOES work to a degree, at least temporarily. provided there are safeguards (which is something I mentioned. we need at least some sort of safeguards if this were to be implemented) and I'm not entirely sure why you are so vehemently against it?

and general rewards for queueing in TOR are generally better than what you get through questing, at least the first run of the day. by far. one run with both dailies nets you as many coms as finishing half the planet. so no, that's not really an issue.

there are 11 classes in WoW.

 

there are 8 in TOR. (yes each advanced class is essentially a separate class, you just get to pick one out at lvl 10 instead of on character creation)

 

out of 11 classes in WoW - 4 are pure dps

out of 8 classes in TOR - 2 are pure dps.

the major difference is that WoW has 3 classes that can play all 3 roles - however, it doesn't mean they actually play all 3 roles. gearing is too annoying for that.

 

overall - TOR has 6 classes that can play needed roles. WoW has 7. its really not that much of a difference.

you are confusing the shared story with class.

 

there are certain rewards in WoW that are only once a day, or once a week.

 

NOTHING is stopping bioware from creating a separate flag for needed role reward IF THEY SO CHOSE and make it more than once a day.

 

I know personally people who queued more often almost solely because of the reward bag. I'm guilded with several. i was ONE of those people, I specifically respecced my paladin to tanking (even though I prefer to dps or heal on her), solely because rewards bag had certain pets and mounts I was unable to farm up the hard way. I also know people who said - screw it, a little extra gold is not worth it.

 

its a bandaid. but its a bandaid that DOES work to a degree, at least temporarily. and I'm not entirely sure why you are so vehemently against it?

 

and general rewards for queueing in TOR are generally better than what you get through questing, at least the first run of the day. by far. one run with both dailies nets you as many coms as finishing half the planet. so no, that's not really an issue.

Again you miss my point, there is no proof this worked, just proof that you swapped roles to get those rewards, within this game that would involve re rolling for people who cannot get those rewards via respec within there AC. I notice you are also looking at this from only 1 angle and that is endgame, IF this is something to look at in the terms of encouraging people to use the RGF then the system has to encorperate the whole playerbase.

It has to start from lvl 10-55, it has to encourage players that support roles are required yet not deter people from being there chosen playstyle simply for material gain that is otherwise blocked from them and encourage group play within RGF outside of normal leveling.

It also would never have bothered me in the slightest if they had never said THIS WORKS with zero proof.

Again you miss my point, there is no proof this worked, just proof that you swapped roles to get those rewards, within this game that would involve re rolling for people who cannot get those rewards via respec within there AC. I notice you are also looking at this from only 1 angle and that is endgame, IF this is something to look at in the terms of encouraging people to use the RGF then the system has to encorperate the whole playerbase.

 

It has to start from lvl 10-55, it has to encourage players that support roles are required yet not deter people from being there chosen playstyle simply for material gain that is otherwise blocked from them and encourage group play within RGF outside of normal leveling.

 

It also would never have bothered me in the slightest if they had never said THIS WORKS with zero proof.

So basically you're against this idea because your gunslinger can't respec to tank and you think that's somehow unfair even though if it worked, that gunslinger would massively benefit from being able to run flashpoints far more often.

So basically you're against this idea because your gunslinger can't respec to tank and you think that's somehow unfair.

I have 18 chars, trust me i can field any and all classes, each side and nearly every varient. The basic thing is you have not read a word i have written.

I have 18 chars, trust me i can field any and all classes, each side and nearly every varient. The basic thing is you have not read a word i have written.

I'm not the only one in this thread who's read everything you've written and can't make heads or tails out of your argument.

I'm not the only one in this thread who's read everything you've written and can't make heads or tails out of your argument.

jesus, you cant make head nor tail yet you have agreed with me on my point, ok. The fundamental problem with the RGF isnt that tanks and healers need more rewards, its that everyone needs a reward per run. The RGF needs to be rewarding and encourage instance running from lvl 10-55 not just at 50-55.

The problem isnt a lack of healers or tanks and it wont be improved by people having to make an alt todo 1 run a day/week for those rewards if you dont have that as your main ac. The problem isnt that your idea isnt a bad idea in principle, its that you state it works with zero proof and that people wouldnt game the system.

jesus, you cant make head nor tail yet you have agreed with me on my point, ok. The fundamental problem with the RGF isnt that tanks and healers need more rewards, its that everyone needs a reward per run. The RGF needs to be rewarding and encourage instance running from lvl 10-55 not just at 50-55.

 

The problem isnt a lack of healers or tanks and it wont be improved by people having to make an alt todo 1 run a day/week for those rewards if you dont have that as your main ac. The problem isnt that your idea isnt a bad idea in principle, its that you state it works with zero proof and that people wouldnt game the system.

I don't think this post is very in touch with reality. If I queue as a tank, I get in a group instantly. If I queue as a healer, I get in after 10-15 minutes. If I queue as DPS, it takes 1-2 hours.

It's not rocket science that this means there are far more DPS than healers, and more healers than tanks. And stop with the 1 run a day nonsense. Bioware could recode the groupfinder to offer the incentive every single time you queue if they want to.

I don't think this post is very in touch with reality. If I queue as a tank, I get in a group instantly. If I queue as a healer, I get in after 10-15 minutes. If I queue as DPS, it takes 1-2 hours.

 

It's not rocket science that this means there are far more DPS than healers, and more healers than tanks.

The only thing not in touch with reality is your posts, you just disagreed with yourself, you do realise this dont you, Its not rocket science if you only get 1 reward per day and you are doing them for rewards then you will only do them once per day.

And if i can q for a RGF as a tank and get a group within 5 mins, 1 as a healer and get a group within 5 mins and get a group as a dps within 30 that isnt factual statement of what everyone gets, thats simply the average time that i am entering rgf. Your not stating to offer it to everyone every run though are you , your stating to only do it for tanks and healers for 1 run.

So show me proof it works or stop.

Your not stating to offer it to everyone every run though are you , your stating to only do it for tanks and healers for 1 run.

Who's not reading? I've said that Bioware should offer it every run 5 different times now.

Who's not reading? I've said that Bioware should offer it every run 5 different times now.

HA you just stated my post isnt in touch with reality when i said it, still dont see this stat proof just giving tanks and healers rewards works. You know you did state it works. Ow and you going back and editing doesnt work when you have been quoted, just a heads up.

As a tank.. My only question would be.. What would this extra reward be?? Extra coms?? At least one guaranteed tank or healer drop that is automatically given to the tank or healer??

I guess that is the most important question to me..

Again you miss my point, there is no proof this worked, just proof that you swapped roles to get those rewards, within this game that would involve re rolling for people who cannot get those rewards via respec within there AC. I notice you are also looking at this from only 1 angle and that is endgame, IF this is something to look at in the terms of encouraging people to use the RGF then the system has to encorperate the whole playerbase.

 

It has to start from lvl 10-55, it has to encourage players that support roles are required yet not deter people from being there chosen playstyle simply for material gain that is otherwise blocked from them and encourage group play within RGF outside of normal leveling.

 

It also would never have bothered me in the slightest if they had never said THIS WORKS with zero proof.

rewards are optional.

people who can respec to a needed role, will not always do so, why? because they are playing dps for a reason.

this is NOT meant to encourage dps people to tank or heal. this is meant to encourage existing tanks and healers to queue more often. its meant to encourage people who respect to dps that maybe its worth it for them to spec back to a needed role.

and now, I'm not just looking at it merely from perspective on end game. did I EVER say that reward should be limited to endgame? you were the one who assumed it.

I'm not even a fan of this idea, and while it does work to an extent (no matter how much you'd like to deny it) and your argument makes no sense to me.

we don't have a problem with dps queueing. tanks and healers are ALWAYS the bottleneck. so OP is trying to come up with an idea how to make that bottle neck slightly less severe. the fact that playing dps is a fun, relaxing role with relatively less responsibility is encouragement enough. there is NO need to reward the dps. to repeat myself again, because you don't seem to get what this topic is about. DPS are already queuing so much that their wait times are far FAR longer than that of people playing tanks and healers. their reward would be faster queues, because more people would show up in needed queues.

do

you

get it?

or are you STILL confused?

the purpose of the system to make queues shorter for everyone, especially dps. the system works because by given incentives to tanks/healers to queue more often, it makes wait times shorter for sdps. WHICH is the purpose of proposed system. and for that purpose, it DOES work.

@ Macic - reward would need to be something desirable, but and something that would making gearing faster and therefore remove tanks from the queue faster, thus defeating the purpose. either chance at super rare fluff (like speeders you can no longer purchase in game/expensive rep speeders - make them legacy bound while we're at it, maybe rare pets) or heck - 3 cartel coins per run or something like that - not enough to make it super unfair to other roles, but enough to serve as genuine incentive. with some extra credits to boot, to cover any extra repair bills (I'd need THAT as a healer, because goddamn, keep **** off me group, fer cripes sakes /grumbles)

rewards are optional.

 

people who can respec to a needed role, will not always do so, why? because they are playing dps for a reason.

 

this is NOT meant to encourage dps people to tank or heal. this is meant to encourage existing tanks and healers to queue more often. its meant to encourage people who respect to dps that maybe its worth it for them to spec back to a needed role.

 

and now, I'm not just looking at it merely from perspective on end game. did I EVER say that reward should be limited to endgame? you were the one who assumed it.

 

I'm not even a fan of this idea, and while it does work to an extent (no matter how much you'd like to deny it) and your argument makes no sense to me.

 

we don't have a problem with dps queueing. tanks and healers are ALWAYS the bottleneck. so OP is trying to come up with an idea how to make that bottle neck slightly less severe. the fact that playing dps is a fun, relaxing role with relatively less responsibility is encouragement enough. there is NO need to reward the dps. to repeat myself again, because you don't seem to get what this topic is about. DPS are already queuing so much that their wait times are far FAR longer than that of people playing tanks and healers. their reward would be faster queues, because more people would show up in needed queues.

 

do

you

get it?

 

or are you STILL confused?

Does that actually work on anyone where you were dragged up to talk to them like that, i am wondering because your basic concpet of the problem is so far out of whack its not even funny. You state 'rewards are optional' yet are trying to endorse a reward scheme specifically for just tanks and healers, only giving it to tanks and healers encourages dps to roll out of there role specificaly for rewards, you know like you did. That role you didnt really like but you did because and the answer is........ ding, rewards.

the purpose of the system to make queues shorter for everyone, especially dps. the system works because by given incentives to tanks/healers to queue more often, it makes wait times shorter for sdps. WHICH is the purpose of proposed system. and for that purpose, it DOES work.

And again, show me proof. I have yet to see proof where just treating the tanks and healers increase rgf, so show me that proof, go on, im waiting, but all im seeing is alot of hot air.

Does that actually work on anyone anywhere where you were dragged up to talk to them like that, i am wondering because your basic concpet of the problem is so far out of whack its not even funny. You state 'rewards are optional' yet are trying to endorse a reward scheme specifically for just tanks and healers, only giving it to tanks and healers encourages dps to roll out of there role specificaly for rewards, you know like you did. That role you didnt really like but you did because and the answer is........ ding, rewards.

 

And again, show me proof. I have yet to see proof where just treating the tanks and healers increase rgf, so show me that proof, go on, im waiting, but all im seeing is alot of hot air.

you are pointless to argue with. you are the one who is so out of wack I don't even know where to begin anymore

I've given you proof, but that proof is not good enough for you. the fact that I know personally people who queued more specifically for that reward is not good enough for you.

if someone who plays dps chooses to switch to more needed role because of the reward, how is that bad? people who chose to STAY dps are REWARDED with faster queue times, that's to people who chose to play tanks/healers more often due to extra incentives.

and I never said I didn't like that role, I said that I prefered other roles better. if someone chose to be pressured to play a role they do not like, because of extra reward, its THEIR problem. not that it doesn't happen already, with dps who are tired of waiting so they switch. except now there's no reward for them other then getting to play less preferred role faster.

either way. just. stop. please stop. your argument boils down to "I don't like it, so it doesn't work" its pointless and its not constructive.

you are pointless to argue with. you are the one who is so out of wack I don't even know where to begin anymore

 

I've given you proof, but that proof is not good enough for you. the fact that I know personally people who queued more specifically for that reward is not good enough for you. if someone who plays dps chooses to switch to more needed role because of the reward, how is that bad? people who chose to STAY dps are REWARDED with faster queue times, that's to people who chose to play tanks/healers more often due to extra incentives.

 

and I never said I didn't like that role, I said that I prefered other roles better. if someone chose to be pressured to play a role they do not like, because of extra reward, its THEIR problem. not that it doesn't happen already, with dps who are tired of waiting so they switch. except now there's no reward for them other then getting to play less preferred role faster.

 

either way. just. stop. please stop. your argument boils down to "I don't like it, so it doesn't work" its pointless and its not constructive.

You have given me hot air (which your post is) and opinions but no proof. so again proof, begin with that. 3,2,1 go.

this is like talking to a child.

no U

its basic logic and math you know.

incidentally, there's another little but crucial point that you missed.

reward would be offered to the role most needed at any given time. so in your rare as unicorn example of actually having tanks and healers but not enough dps? guess who gets the extra incentive? that's right, dps.

its a self correcting system.

so. please do try again.

this is like talking to a child.

 

no U

its basic logic and math you know.

 

incidentally, there's another little but crucial point that you missed.

 

reward would be offered to the role most needed at any given time. so in your rare as unicorn example of actually having tanks and healers but not enough dps? guess who gets the extra incentive? that's right, dps.

 

its a self correcting system.

 

so. please do try again.

So you cannot find the proof then which is why you are doing the insults to try and provoke, you know just providing the proof would stop this. I do realise you like to alter your posts after the fact, this is why im quoting you so the original is saved. Ill just sit here awaiting that proof.

A smuggler who is a sawbones and a smuggler who is a gunslinger are still a smuggler.

 

 

 

 

And it doesnt allow a pure dps ac to become its alter pure heal/tank ac. So no its not. Have a nice day.

next time you are in game, open up your guild window. Look at the column "class". I don;t see anything there for "smuggler", "Sith Warrior", or any generics, unless the player is below level 10.

So int eh Bioware world, Scoundrel and Gunslinger are 2 different classes.

next time you are in game, open up your guild window. Look at the column "class". I don;t see anything there for "smuggler", "Sith Warrior", or any generics, unless the player is below level 10.

 

So int eh Bioware world, Scoundrel and Gunslinger are 2 different classes.

Can you swap acs, if or when they introduce duel spec do the majority want it to be from different acs. simple question.

ROLF. priceless. this is absolutely priceless.

anyways, back to the original topic.

if rewards for the role most needed were to be implemented, there need to be safeguards in place. something in a system that reads your current talent trees (since currently, you cannot save presets in TOR). otherwise, the issue with dps queueing as healers/tanks will be exacerbated from already frustrating occurrences we get now.

reward cannot be direct upgrades. it needs to be something desirable, but at the core - still fluff.

I'm still not the biggest fan, since no system is cheat proof and you cannot fix stupid, or malicious, you can only avoid it in future run by utilizing ignore and/or kick function. but. if anyone has any ideas of how to minimize cheating potential, its worth looking into.

also, in WoW, the annoying issue with this system is that role most needed sometimes changes while you are waiting for everyone to hit accept, so even if you were eligible for reward when you first had the group pop, you may not be getting it after all. solution? code reward to the moment of accepting the pop, not the moment of last person hitting accept and flashpoint quest upgrading.

Can you swap acs, if or when they introduce duel spec do the majority want it to be from different acs. simple question.

Dual spec is not "dual AC". You seem to be thinking it is.

Dual spec allows you to swap specs within your class quickly and easily. That is all.

Class is not smuggler. Class is Gunslinger, class is Scoundrel. This is not my definition, this is Biowares definition.

Dual spec is not "dual AC". You seem to be thinking it is.

 

Dual spec allows you to swap specs within your class quickly and easily. That is all.

 

Class is not smuggler. Class is Gunslinger, class is Scoundrel. This is not my definition, this is Biowares definition.

Thats not what i asked you is it, what i asked you is if or when duel spec comes in that the majority want duel spec to allow you to switch between your Class http://www.swtor.com/holonet/classes Advanced skill trees.

ROLF. priceless. this is absolutely priceless..

Still waiting for the proof that this works as you state.