I'm definitely not complaining about this in any way, shape, or form, as I find I make a profit by selling my mats and letting someone else make the augments that I'd normally have to make myself, but it seems like thermal regulators on Pot5 are pretty consistently going for around 20k or thereabouts, and purple 28 augments are pretty consistently selling for 75-78k. Since I tend to be pretty good at math, that's a 2-5k loss for every purple 28 augment sold, even when not counting all the other materials and the time spent in making these.

Anyone have any idea why this seems to be consistently the case, other than rampant drug use or higher level brain function disabilities among the crafting population?

It's pretty funny, but this has been going on long enough to be weird...

I'm going to be rude here but it's a proof Darwin was right!

I'm playing Eve online from time to time and big lesson I've learned there is "nothing is free". There are no free masts and nothing! The only thing which is to consider is potential income.

I guess the human waste which sells under the price of mats sells it because the critted and got free copy BUT!! if they would have just traded the extra copy for mats and sold them they could have made more money.

By selling under-price instead of keeping price levels they screw all crafters.

In the past I could sell 31 armoring\mods around 900k-1.2 mil on gtn today I saw some ppl selling 31 armoring for 600K!!!! Much less then the price of ISOTOPE-5 and Mass manipulator alone not including other mats and the time it took you to actually craft it which you could use your companion to craft something else.

It's silly, for sure. The crafters probably aren't losing money per se, assuming they have a slicer or two to supply the TRs. And they get some crits here and there, increasing their overall profits. But, yeah, they should probably be selling those TRs outright instead of bothering to craft the augments.

This is not the case on my server (JC), at least for the popular augs (mostly mainstat), which is largely what I've been crafting of late. Pricing fluctuates from a low of around 95k up to around 110k, depending on the day of the week. It's possible less popular augs (like surge or presence) are selling in that 80k range, I haven't checked them in a while. But if those mainstat aug prices ever dropped to the levels you're seeing, there's absolutely no way I'd stay in the aug market. Selling straight mats would make way more sense, since otherwise I'd be relying on crits to make up the difference - and I hate betting creds on RNG.

It's silly, for sure. The crafters probably aren't losing money per se, assuming they have a slicer or two to supply the TRs. And they get some crits here and there, increasing their overall profits. But, yeah, they should probably be selling those TRs outright instead of bothering to craft the augments.

 

This is not the case on my server (JC), at least for the popular augs (mostly mainstat), which is largely what I've been crafting of late. Pricing fluctuates from a low of around 95k up to around 110k, depending on the day of the week. It's possible less popular augs (like surge or presence) are selling in that 80k range, I haven't checked them in a while. But if those mainstat aug prices ever dropped to the levels you're seeing, there's absolutely no way I'd stay in the aug market. Selling straight mats would make way more sense, since otherwise I'd be relying on crits to make up the difference - and I hate betting creds on RNG.

Well, right at present, there are 22 pages of Overkill, Might, Reflex, Skill, Resolve, and various "trash" purple augments between 72 and 79k on Pot5. From what I recall, this is pretty much par for the course, as well.

There are six pages of Thermal Regulators, with the lowest price being 19,475, with 21 total TRs selling (one each) between that price and 20k. I posted something like 28 or so earlier today (left myself a bunch), and they went QUICK.

So... I'm doing the math here:

(Average costs that I've seen on Pot5)

2 x Corundum Power = 1.2k

4 x Thermal Regulator = 80k

2 x Carbonic Crystal = 3k

2 x Primordial Artifact Fragment = 4k

Total cost = 88.2k

Average augment sale cost = 76k

...and I'm thinking two things:

1.) The drug use on Pot5 has got to be pretty rampant.

2.) I need to stop sitting on my mats and start selling.

I've run into the same thing myself.

I've can understand why some mats can get pricey, like Turadium. It's used for 3 crafting professions, and many schematics ask for 4 units for every 2 Mythra. So it tends to be scarcer, thus price goes up. Logical.

But Thermal Regulators can only be used to craft augments. Its a mystery to me why people will buy TRs to craft augments if it's cheaper to just buy the finished augments directly.

Go figure.

So... I'm doing the math here:

 

(Average costs that I've seen on Pot5)

2 x Corundum Power = 1.2k

4 x Thermal Regulator = 80k

2 x Carbonic Crystal = 3k

2 x Primordial Artifact Fragment = 4k

Total cost = 88.2k

Average augment sale cost = 76k

You undervalue crits. A good crafter has a crit-chance of ~25% (depending on companions)

Taking your numbers:

material costs: 88,2k for one production

outcome: 1,25 augments

outcome sell-price: 1,25*76k=95k

discounting 6% GTN sell-tax: 95k*0,94=89,3k

profit per augment: 89,3-88,2=1,1

So there is at least a profit of 1,1k per piece to make (plus you overvalue green's and white's which you can gain a lot cheaper by crew-missions). So tell me who is taking drug's?

that crafter.

Kill 1 group of mobs on hoth heroic area > 2000 credits.

why all the hassle with crafting if you are not making huge profit to justify the effort?

I'll craft for 2 reasons:

1. Stuff for my alts.

2. Sell and make large amounts of money.

If I need to work on 3 crew skills then craft something for an hour only to make 1 k ? why?

Don't look at only the cost of thermal regs. Look into the cost of 450 slicing missions as well.

Anyone making less then 10-15k per augment (on the low end), before factoring in crits on the crafting side, is doing it wrong.

plus you overvalue green's and white's which you can gain a lot cheaper by crew-missions

There's this thing called opportunity cost. It doesn't matter if you got them for free from a gathering node - if you use the materials to craft something, you forfeit the opportunity to sell them as they are. If the materials cost 4k on the GTN, then the opportunity cost of using them is 4k.

It's precisely the same thing that's being discussed about thermal regulators here. The cheapest way to acquire those is to run lockbox missions for slicing mission discoveries, then run those at TRs with very close to zero overall cost. It just takes some time and luck.

I've run into the same thing myself.

 

I've can understand why some mats can get pricey, like Turadium. It's used for 3 crafting professions, and many schematics ask for 4 units for every 2 Mythra. So it tends to be scarcer, thus price goes up. Logical.

 

But Thermal Regulators can only be used to craft augments. Its a mystery to me why people will buy TRs to craft augments if it's cheaper to just buy the finished augments directly.

 

Go figure.

It's the crits.

Whether you have the augmenter or a friend/guildie does (who will give you the crits, lol).

On my server, TRs go steady at 20k a pop. Augments around 80k (mainstat ones, which can drop to like 75k) and 90k the others (sometimes a bit more,sometimes a bit less).

I have the slicers and I have the augmenters. No way I'm selling the TRs. It'd be foolish. I only sell the augments.

Tanno Vik and the ship droid with the synth sensor rock.

IMO, the only reason to buy directly the augments is either you need them now or you have no access to an augmenter giving you the crits.

And let's forget about the crits.

Yeah, let's say I can make a bit of more money by selling all the mats (TRs, the 2 different green mats, white mats,etc) instead of augments.

What about the hassle of listing/relisting all that garbage ? If you wanna do it right, you need to check prices for each item. Then you need to do the spliting stacks stuff. Every time for evey mat...God... I'm tired by just thinking all that. Augments, on the other hand, are a really simple and really quick thing to list. Spending as little time as possible on the GTN is nice.

In my case, indulging my laziness is priority . I would do that even if it meant less profit (which it doesn't)

I agree with those who have explained that it's the crits being taken into account. However, I do not agree with that mentality for one simple reason: what if you don't crit?

Even with two +5 crit companions (on my synthweaving JK: Kira and C2-N2), there have been times when I craft ten augments and I get ten augments. Over the last 18 months, these instances are rare, but numerous enough for me to take crits off the table when it comes to determining my pricing.

Hence, why I rarely dip into the artifact quality item modifications markets. Blue quality item modifications are much cheaper to make, invariably sell for a higher profit margin (as a function of percentage), and are much easier to scoop up when someone posts them under the cost to manufacture.

I agree with those who have explained that it's the crits being taken into account. However, I do not agree with that mentality for one simple reason: what if you don't crit?

 

Even with two +5 crit companions (on my synthweaving JK: Kira and C2-N2), there have been times when I craft ten augments and I get ten augments. Over the last 18 months, these instances are rare, but numerous enough for me to take crits off the table when it comes to determining my pricing.

 

Hence, why I rarely dip into the artifact quality item modifications markets. Blue quality item modifications are much cheaper to make, invariably sell for a higher profit margin (as a function of percentage), and are much easier to scoop up when someone posts them under the cost to manufacture.

But, overtime, you do crit. Inevitably. So crits do exist.

Yes, one week will be less profitable than other. But the profit from crits is certainly there.

Also, if you sell purple augments doesn't mean you can't sell blue ones. I sell both. I agree, profit margin is bigger for blue stuff, but that also means more work.

But, overtime, you do crit. Inevitably. So crits do exist.

Yes, one week will be less profitable than other. But the profit from crits is certainly there.

 

Also, if you sell purple augments doesn't mean you can't sell blue ones. I sell both. I agree, profit margin is bigger for blue stuff, but that also means more work.

I do not deny that crits exist, but I do not believe that one should depend on them for profit. Just my opinion.

With that opinion in mind, as for crafting purples along side blues, it is a better investment of materials and credits to go exclusively blue:

• As a function of time one can craft 2 blues for every 1 purple
  
• As a function of credits I can craft 13 blues each purple
  
• And players who buy blues tend to buy in bulk so I usually sell out in one transaction
  
• So for every one purple you might make a profit on, I am selling five or six blues and definitely making a profit.
  

It's the crits.

Whether you have the augmenter or a friend/guildie does (who will give you the crits, lol).

 

...

I do understand, and have used that in my profit math before.

But the mystery is not how someone can make a profit. The mystery is: who is buying all these TRs?

Most of the crafters I know that make money on augments also run their own slicing missions. So they have a choice of selling TRs for x credits or selling the final augments (hoping for crits) and 1.1x credits.

This I can understand.

But is someone going to go to the GTN, buy up all these TRs, spending 45 minutes per augment, just to make a small profit IF they get the expected crit rate?

That is the mystery.

I do understand, and have used that in my profit math before.

 

But the mystery is not how someone can make a profit. The mystery is: who is buying all these TRs?

 

Most of the crafters I know that make money on augments also run their own slicing missions. So they have a choice of selling TRs for x credits or selling the final augments (hoping for crits) and 1.1x credits.

 

This I can understand.

 

But is someone going to go to the GTN, buy up all these TRs, spending 45 minutes per augment, just to make a small profit IF they get the expected crit rate?

 

That is the mystery.

Just running missions is rarely enough to maintain a proper stock of materials. Eventually and inevitably one runs

into the issue of running low on materials. The choice then becomes:

1. time: stopping production of crafted items while stock is rebuilt
   
2. or credits: for all intents and purposes paying someone else to rebuild your stock for you
   

The other possibility, is someone who does not have an (proper) augment crafter, buys the materials off the GTN and is hoping a crafter friend/guildmate crits. If we assume an idealized circumstance - 28% crit rate actually happens in the short term - one needs 44 TRs to get 14 augments (the first eight crafts yield two extra, then because of the slightly better than 1 in 4, you get an extra in the final three; or any combination therein)

I do understand, and have used that in my profit math before.

 

But the mystery is not how someone can make a profit. The mystery is: who is buying all these TRs?

 

Most of the crafters I know that make money on augments also run their own slicing missions. So they have a choice of selling TRs for x credits or selling the final augments (hoping for crits) and 1.1x credits.

 

This I can understand.

 

But is someone going to go to the GTN, buy up all these TRs, spending 45 minutes per augment, just to make a small profit IF they get the expected crit rate?

 

That is the mystery.

Gotcha.

I imagine there's a bit of everything. While I've never done it, I did consider buying TRs just to make profit off of crits. But since that would mean not gaining anything on non-crits (just even at best), I figured it'd be too much work for nothing.

I get my own TRs (I have 6 slicers), so I make profit with non-crits too.

But that's me, I'm lazy and cheap (I don't want to pay 20k for something I know it costs, in terms of creds, 4k - 5k ish )

Though I do see names that are always selling purple augments, every day, a bunch. They either have an unholy army of Slicers with multiple accounts and spend lots and lots of times sending minions or they just buy the TRs and they're always selling purple augments everyday. The more you roll the dice for crits, the more crits you get.

Maybe some have only the augmenter(s) and cba leveling slicers and do a bunch of missions for mats. Specially considering there are only 2 missions that may grant TRs and one of them sucks. Or, if someone has few characters and they want to make money with purple augments, they need to buy TRs.

Re: who comprises the TR market - I'll buy a few here and there. I've only recently figured out how to profit off of augment crafting. I have two 450 slicers, working on a 3rd, so obviously my influx of TRs is fairly small. I'm able to run Unsliceable? and WtW several times a day (working from home ftw), typically a total of about 5-6 times per mission per alt. So my total potential net is around 60-70 TRs if everybody crits, which, of course, never happens. I'm more likely to end up around 15 or so for the day.

Sometimes I'll have a particularly bad run, landing only, say, a couple of pairs of TRs from WtW. In those situations, I have been known to buy TRs off the gtn to supplement my inventory. I figure if I score two via slicing and pay around 40k for the other two, I'll still come out ahead (even considering the cost of failed missions). While I won't go nuts buying tons of TRs at 20k a pop, I feel it's important to maintain a positive cash flow.

Also, I'm more likely to do this when I see the aug market trending towards higher prices. As I said in my earlier post, prices on my server can get up to 110k for mainstat ugs. Usually that only happens 1-2 days a week. During those high points, I'll snatch up more TRs than I otherwise would.

I agree with those who have explained that it's the crits being taken into account. However, I do not agree with that mentality for one simple reason: what if you don't crit?

 

Even with two +5 crit companions (on my synthweaving JK: Kira and C2-N2), there have been times when I craft ten augments and I get ten augments. Over the last 18 months, these instances are rare, but numerous enough for me to take crits off the table when it comes to determining my pricing.

 

Hence, why I rarely dip into the artifact quality item modifications markets. Blue quality item modifications are much cheaper to make, invariably sell for a higher profit margin (as a function of percentage), and are much easier to scoop up when someone posts them under the cost to manufacture.

+1 on this. You'll notice in my post thus far I haven't considered critting on crafting the augs. I would never bother with the aug market if I had to rely on crits for profits. I consider them a bonus. Ultimately they do make aug crafting wildly profitable (even in my small-scale 2-slicer enterprise), but I want to ensure that I'll land a significant profit without them. And thus far I have. The day I'm no longer able to maintain a margin without crits, I'll move on to another market.

My server hasn't seen prices fall to that level yet, though they seem to be pushing closer and closer to it every day.

I have seen what someone else noted, and that is quite a few 31 items now priced significantly below the selling prices of mats (such that any profit even with crits is going to be very low - though most are probably posted by the 'trading X31 for mats' people that constantly spam chat on fleet).

It does seem like this is where the market is heading for all servers though, so have started offloading my excess stock.

And at the prices mentioned by the OP, I would just sell mats (unless the idiots start pricing them below mission cost as well, in which case R.I.P. crafting / crew skills).

It does seem pointless to me to craft items and have to rely on crits just to make a measly 1K when I can simply have my crafting crew members run missions instead and sell the mats for more overall profit / time at less risk.

Augment crafter here. I make millions a week purely from crafting Adv 28 Augs. I have to constantly buy up Thermal Regulators because I don't have any crafting alts (working on that now). I never purchase other materials from the GTN and run my own gathering missions. Crits mean that there are significant profits to be made even at 80k. It's key that you're using max affection companions with crit bonuses and that you have the legacy of crafting perks.

The price of Thermal Regulators is not always 20k. I don't buy them for anything above that price. 19.5k is the typical price on Harbinger. I always buy every TR I see listed for less than 19k. Sometimes, I'll even see bulk sales of 99 sold for 15-17k each. Grabbing those up is a huge boon.

Another thing to consider is that the price of augments is not always 80k. That's the bare minimum I'll sell for and only if I need the capital to gather more materials. I have built up a huge stockpile of Absorb, Reflex, Skill, and Shield augments. Whenever the price starts to rise, I can sell dozens/day for 90k+ each. If I have the capital and feel the prices have been too low for too long, I like to buy out everyone in the market and set the price to a much higher level. On Harbinger a few days ago, I set the prices of absorb augments to 130k (I find that they simply don't sell at higher prices than 130k) and made sure that they stayed as high as possible for as long as possible. After 4-5 days, they basically returned to normal and I made ~6 million in profits. So if you felt that you were getting gouged on Absorb Augment prices on Harbinger for the past few days, that was my fault.

I've recently noticed that I have a massive stockpile of Bio-Mechanical Interface chips. I'm currently studying the market and contemplating expanding into Augmentation kits.

tl;dr There's huge money to be made in the augment market if you pay attention.

Augment crafter here. I make millions a week purely from crafting Adv 28 Augs. I have to constantly buy up Thermal Regulators because I don't have any crafting alts (working on that now). I never purchase other materials from the GTN and run my own gathering missions. Crits mean that there are significant profits to be made even at 80k. It's key that you're using max affection companions with crit bonuses and that you have the legacy of crafting perks.

 

The price of Thermal Regulators is not always 20k. I don't buy them for anything above that price. 19.5k is the typical price on Harbinger. I always buy every TR I see listed for less than 19k. Sometimes, I'll even see bulk sales of 99 sold for 15-17k each. Grabbing those up is a huge boon.

 

Another thing to consider is that the price of augments is not always 80k. That's the bare minimum I'll sell for and only if I need the capital to gather more materials. I have built up a huge stockpile of Absorb, Reflex, Skill, and Shield augments. Whenever the price starts to rise, I can sell dozens/day for 90k+ each. If I have the capital and feel the prices have been too low for too long, I like to buy out everyone in the market and set the price to a much higher level. On Harbinger a few days ago, I set the prices of absorb augments to 130k (I find that they simply don't sell at higher prices than 130k) and made sure that they stayed as high as possible for as long as possible. After 4-5 days, they basically returned to normal and I made ~6 million in profits. So if you felt that you were getting gouged on Absorb Augment prices on Harbinger for the past few days, that was my fault.

 

I've recently noticed that I have a massive stockpile of Bio-Mechanical Interface chips. I'm currently studying the market and contemplating expanding into Augmentation kits.

 

tl;dr There's huge money to be made in the augment market if you pay attention.

Different servers, different economies.

On mine, Therm Reg go for 24K on average (I found a stack about a week ago right at 20K, the next stack was posted at 23K) while the augments rarely poke above 100K, usually floating in the mid 90s. The green materials used float a bit more in price, but rarely dip below 1K with an average price around 1.3-1.5K.

It is sometimes possible to try and reset the price point, but it is highly risky as there are a few people who seem to be ok with making little if any profit that will dump and massively undercut if the price moves much above 100K (as in you'll see a few at 100, 99.9, 99.8 then someone with a page at 90, then another at 85).

There are players with free access to TR (very large guild crafters) or crafting gankers/trolls... there is no other explanation.

On my server I see them almost day to day undercutting augments that are usually bought in hours with 5 - 10K (let say previous ones are on 88K - you see someone post directly on 78 to 83K).

This way let say Reflex 28 goes from 95 to 60 in matter of hours ... some buyers are happy but casual crafters are screwed.

Price of TRs start at 20K.

No crit can cover 60K price when you buy TRs, grinding them alone is pretty hard.

There are players with free access to TR (very large guild crafters) or crafting gankers/trolls... there is no other explanation.

On my server I see them almost day to day undercutting augments that are usually bought in hours with 5 - 10K (let say previous ones are on 88K - you see someone post directly on 78 to 83K).

This way let say Reflex 28 goes from 95 to 60 in matter of hours ... some buyers are happy but casual crafters are screwed.

Price of TRs start at 20K.

No crit can cover 60K price when you buy TRs, grinding them alone is pretty hard.

I am not saying I agree with the mentality but if one uses one's own TRs from running missions and uses the cost to acquire as the measure of profitability then 60k is in fact very profitable.

Long story short, running "Unsliceable?" and "Watching the Watchdogs" and assuming a perfect distribution of crits, TRs cost 5965 credits to acquire. That is 23860 credits per augment. Throw in other materials' costs (using the same costing premise) and the cost to manufacture a single augment barely breaches 26k. Throw in a better than 1 in 4 crit chance when crafting an augment and each augment's cost to manufacture is only 20.8k. At 60k that's a 188% profit margin.

All that being said, at a cost to acquire of 5965 and a typical price point of 20k each that's a 235% profit margin. So those selling at 60k are selling themselves short, but are still making significant profit.

In every MMO I've played I have always seen a disconnect between materials pricing and item pricing.

I've always assumed it was because materials have the potential to be anything while an item is always an item, and people leveling crafting skills drive up the demand on materials.

Because I've always seen huge numbers of augments for sale, I assumed the oversupply was driving down prices along with the undercutters who simply want to sell now instead of waiting for a few thousand more credits. And when undercutters start undercutting other undercutters...well, it begins a rapid slide straight down.

Even materials can be affected by undercutters, however, so the best suggestion I have is to sell mats when they are worth more than what they can make and sell items when they are worth more than the mats that make them cost.

It is sometimes possible to try and reset the price point, but it is highly risky as there are a few people who seem to be ok with making little if any profit that will dump and massively undercut if the price moves much above 100K (as in you'll see a few at 100, 99.9, 99.8 then someone with a page at 90, then another at 85).

This is so true. I tried to reset the prices once (from two pages of 70k up to 90k), only to have the same people disregard the change in the market and put dozens of augs back for 70k. I swear they must be peo- trolls sitting on hundreds of mils gaining only pleasure from these occurences! Or just sheer stupidity.