It would have... but Explosive Probe + Cluster Bombs is still too much damage. And no we don't want a nerf to Engineering talents but maybe a buff to Full Lethality sustained single target DPS instead.

What do you think about the talent "Lethal Takedown" increasing Cull's damage by 6% (a 3% increase) and reducing it's energy cost by 5 (so making it 20 energy)?

Too much?

What do you think about the talent "Lethal Takedown" increasing Cull's damage by 6% (a 3% increase) and reducing it's energy cost by 5 (so making it 20 energy)?

 

Too much?

Anyway anyone is free to post their questions. When the rep gets chosen at least we have this compilation to pass onto that person (reduced work load lol).

Fantastic question. I'm trying to play exclusively as Dirty Fighting on my Slinger. You nailed my issue with the spec right on the head.

That is a terrible question. It is loaded and is trying to address more than one thing in multiple questions and suppositions.

It makes it almost impossible to answer the question properly as to do so, they need to agree with your suppositions in the first place.

So it looks like the 3 questions can ask about

 

- Design philosophy = quality of life

- Math = buff.

e.g. assasin tank spikeyness or full pyro doing low sustained DPS in pve and low burst DPS (lol idk dont ask me) in pvp.

 

Maybe that's why we only have 3 questions for both PVE and PVP aspects. These questions are something that "they plan to put some serious work into." The questions should be "all-encompassing" that everyone can agree on which includes 1 PVP question, 1 PVE question and 1 other.

How did you get this from that post....

Math does not mean buff. It means the way they calculate certain abilities damage compared to other classes defenses as a good example.

Design philosophy is the idea behind the play styles the class offers. This will not give you an insight of where the class is heading..... its already there, but it will give you insight in to why certain skill choices were made in the first place, and the ideas behind the functionality of the class from concept to implementation.

Pretty much you should focus on trying to get more math type responses as this will help calculate the theory crafting needed for spec and gear optimisation.

Another good inquest would be into mechanics. An indepth account of how things are determined would do wonders for this class, especially given its defensive nature.

As in, how is the cover mechanic governed and what skills/damage types are exempt from the cover rule.

How did you get this from that post....

 

Math does not mean buff. It means the way they calculate certain abilities damage compared to other classes defenses as a good example.

 

Design philosophy is the idea behind the play styles the class offers. This will not give you an insight of where the class is heading..... its already there, but it will give you insight in to why certain skill choices were made in the first place, and the ideas behind the functionality of the class from concept to implementation.

 

Pretty much you should focus on trying to get more math type responses as this will help calculate the theory crafting needed for spec and gear optimisation.

 

Another good inquest would be into mechanics. An indepth account of how things are determined would do wonders for this class, especially given its defensive nature.

 

As in, how is the cover mechanic governed and what skills/damage types are exempt from the cover rule.

Re: math, design philosophy, qol, etc, I guess you went in deeper into the meaning of the words. If it is going to confuse people then let's remove it! If you can think of a better way to word my first lethality question that would be great! in the meantime let me try to remake it to make it more precise and not ALL over the place

I think you have your answer. The design philosophy is ranged DPS. Your fill a dps role in all, trees, and have a varying amount of utility in each for different things, to match different play styles.

 

I think this type of question is obscure, and doesn't really do much for the class in general at all. Use these questions to answer specific problems or questions with functionality or problems with x skill, not a blurb on what they want to achieve with the class, that was set before the game was released.

not quite. ranged dps is vague. how snipers dps between skill trees as well as mercs and sorcs varies considerably. There is a role in mind that defines what a sniper is and how it is supposed to be different from mercs and sorcs.

there are already many questions on the front page dealing with what is the intent behind different specs.

Angelsfluttersky #2 and Paowee #1 are asking about the changes made to leathality and the intention and use in raid environment vs hybrid specs. Evrydayimsmugglin #1 is a question about if snipers are to be reliant on other classes or is roll to be used as a major defense. Angelsfluttersky #3 is question about if engineering is designed for the mines to be the primary damage dealer. Angelsfluttersky #1 is also about the intent behind engineering and the limited viablity of plasma probe in mobile boss fights.

the answer will shape future questions and provide a basis for new discussion.

you could always pose your own question tho.

Ok here you go Yndras how about this one? You seem to be good at wording... I *think* you have an idea of the point i'm trying to say, but made a comment that how that point was made is obscure and can lead to more questions than one definite answer (and we only get ONE pve answer from the combat team. That's why these questions have to be really *important* and carefully made). Well technically we have 1 PVE, 1 PVP, and 1 other question.

My question is:

The 2/18/23 hybrid iteration of X/X/36 Full Lethality is more popular right now in raids. This is due to multiple things like the 4-pc set bonus "requirement" of Full Lethality, Hybrid offering EP+CB energy regen and great DPS, and Hybrid seems to in general just do better single target DPS. Is Full Lethality on the list of things to look at to make it do equal if not more DPS than its Hybrid spec?

not quite. ranged dps is vague. how snipers dps between skill trees as well as mercs and sorcs varies considerably. There is a role in mind that defines what a sniper is and how it is supposed to be different from mercs and sorcs.

Ok, a lot of stuff in this post. Firstly the above quote.

The trees differ because they are different classes. It is good design to do this. The role in mind is ranged dps, and George has given you a run down on the overall feel for the class which is what you are after. That is NEVER going to change, it was decided upon during the initial design of the class. Hearing more of what George says about the class would be moot.

Angelsfluttersky #2 and Paowee #1 are asking about the changes made to lethality and the intention and use in raid environment vs hybrid specs.

Asking about the changes to lethality is fine. But we Need to be specific about what changes and leave enough room for elaboration on other aspects. Once you start referring to hybrid specs as a comparison you are creating grounds for confusion. How is the dev to know what hybrid spec you are referring too and what dps this spec is supposed to do. Too much supposition in this type of question.

Evrydayimsmugglin #1 is a question about if snipers are to be reliant on other classes or is roll to be used as a major defense.

All classes are designed to be reliant on each other. Its designed as a team game, hence the warzones. Roll is a defensive ability, I doubt it was designed to be the end all go to ability. It is bad to pose a question as tho it is designed to get a specific result. You want open ended questions that are specific enough to get you the information you want, but open ended enough so they have to elaborate on other mechanics as well.

Angelsfluttersky #3 is question about if engineering is designed for the mines to be the primary damage dealer. - Not a bad question. Perhaps you should be asking more about the mechanics and math behind the tree and what is supposed to be the main dps ability.

Angelsfluttersky #1 is also about the intent behind engineering and the limited viability of plasma probe in mobile boss fights. - This is supposition. To answer the question you have to agree that it has limited viability. Not a very good question.

the answer will shape future questions and provide a basis for new discussion.

If you ask the right question, the answer will answer your future questions.

purple text above

So.... do you have any input on how to make some if not all those quoted questions better..? I edited mine if you can be bothered to check . Also you do get my point though right? About Full Lethality x/x/36 versus 3/18/23 Hybrid?. I am assuming you play both Saboteur/Dirty Fighting and Full Dirty Fighting on your Gunslinger (or sniper) in end-game PVE and have compared both specs in parsing.

Ok here you go Yndras how about this one? You seem to be good at wording... I *think* you have an idea of the point i'm trying to say, but made a comment that how that point was made is obscure and can lead to more questions than one definite answer (and we only get ONE pve answer from the combat team. That's why these questions have to be really *important* and carefully made). Well technically we have 1 PVE, 1 PVP, and 1 other question.

 

My question is:

The 2/18/23 hybrid iteration of X/X/36 Full Lethality is more popular right now in raids. This is due to multiple things like the 4-pc set bonus "requirement" of Full Lethality, Hybrid offering EP+CB energy regen and great DPS, and Hybrid seems to in general just do better single target DPS. Is Full Lethality on the list of things to look at to make it do equal if not more DPS than its Hybrid spec?

Mmm, You need to be really careful here. You are forcing the dev to admit that one spec is doing more dps than the other... I don't think that is a fair question. What you are essentially asking for is a buff to X tree or if it is in the pipelines, and i think that detracts from the overall intention of the Q&A bioware have proposed.

You need to think about what it is that your concerned about, and from the above question it appears your concerned about a certain playstyle not doing as much dps as another.

Consider asking for more maths or inhouse numbers for your theorycrafting rather than if the devs "feel" there is a dps anomaly.

Something like - A specific hybrid spec appears to be quite popular at current due to higher dps. In your play tests, do you have any numbers that support this theory in comparison to numbers for lethality snipers.

This way you address the question, is there a dps balance problem between these specs that you are aware off, and gives them some room to be more specific or provide numbers.

Mmm, You need to be really careful here. You are forcing the dev to admit that one spec is doing more dps than the other... I don't think that is a fair question. What you are essentially asking for is a buff to X tree or if it is in the pipelines, and i think that detracts from the overall intention of the Q&A bioware have proposed.

 

You need to think about what it is that your concerned about, and from the above question it appears your concerned about a certain playstyle not doing as much dps as another.

 

Consider asking for more maths or inhouse numbers for your theorycrafting rather than if the devs "feel" there is a dps anomaly.

 

Something like - A specific hybrid spec appears to be quite popular at current due to higher dps. In your play tests, do you have any numbers that support this theory in comparison to numbers for lethality snipers.

 

This way you address the question, is there a dps balance problem between these specs that you are aware off, and gives them some room to be more specific or provide numbers.

Ok, a lot of stuff in this post. Firstly the above quote.

The trees differ because they are different classes. It is good design to do this. The role in mind is ranged dps, and George has given you a run down on the overall feel for the class which is what you are after. That is NEVER going to change, it was decided upon during the initial design of the class. Hearing more of what George says about the class would be moot.

Saying the trees are different because they are different classes is pointless. The question is what makes them different. Each performs a ranged dps role differently. And to be more specific sorcs and mercs can heal so the base concept of how a dps merc and sorc will work in both pvp and pve will be significantly different as to the degree each is expected to heal. Which is a question they can ask on their forums.

The overall feel post was before the game was live. Sniper Volley doesn’t work that way described anymore. Roll has created a 20sec instant move to create significant range on any melee. Spotter limits the area a stealth can approach a sniper. Evasion now removes all negative effects including dots. The addition of reflect to jugs as well as higher mobility moves in most classes in 2.0 has cut the effectiveness of legshot and alpha strike. And this is from a pvp perspective alone.

I should also point out the quote is not available on swtor.com or anywhere on the current forums. I had to go to a third party website that recorded and tracked all dev posts from current and previous versions of the forums.

This is a MMORPG classes often fluctuate on what their role is between expansions and significant content changes. Everything has a potential to be changed . Engineering has become a melee dps due to the use of mines. So even the idea that sniper will always be long ranged is inaccurate.

consider it to be a state of the union type speech. where we are, where we are going, how we will get there. You cant discount the usefulness of such a post compared to Sniper = ranged dps (sometimes) that is on the current class description.

Just a reminder of what the community team and devs are looking for: Found Here

Just keep this in mind. The goal of this is simply to help create a dialog and interaction between the studio and the forums concerns about classes, class balance, etc. This is just a fun way to create the conversation and is something new we are trying.

The questions can be as detailed or broad as we'd like them, there isn't a huge need to pose a question and strongly scrutinize each word it consists of at the moment. While we will reword/edit questions we choose for clarification, they don't need to the ultimate form of a near-perfect question. I'd also suggest saving that editing process once we've gotten a good grasp at 5-10 questions we'd like to vote on seeing being asked to the combat team, unless someone suggests a question that is too confusing for us to decipher.

In other words, I'd like to see more brainstorming and less finalizing since we have plenty of time before the three questions are presented to the community team to hand off to the combat team. One step at a time.

I love to see you folks getting started on this already! Even without a representative you are all working together for the greater good (THE GREATER GOOD!). It's cool to see, good work Snipers

 

-eric

Please tell me that is a Hot Fuzz movie Reference...

(Was that seriously a Hot Fuzz reference? Did the US even get that movie?)

Yes we did, and it was amazing.

Just a reminder of what the community team and devs are looking for: Found Here

 

The questions can be as detailed or broad as we'd like them, there isn't a huge need to pose a question and strongly scrutinize each word it consists of at the moment. While we will reword/edit questions we choose for clarification, they don't need to the ultimate form of a near-perfect question. I'd also suggest saving that editing process once we've gotten a good grasp at 5-10 questions we'd like to vote on seeing being asked to the combat team, unless someone suggests a question that is too confusing for us to decipher.

 

In other words, I'd like to see more brainstorming and less finalizing since we have plenty of time before the three questions are presented to the community team to hand off to the combat team. One step at a time.

My question will really, just revolve on Hybrid vs Lethality and the DPS imbalance that seems to be apparent between the two. A DPS imbalance that is causing one spec to be more popular, like... "~80%" more popular than the other, in end-game pve, based only though on what i see in torparse in 8 and 16-m HM/NiM raids.

Yes we did, and it was amazing.

I have to see this movie.. .i keep reading snips about it since eric's post..

Anyway Yndras, i think your version of the question is great. It doesnt sound like a "homing device" that tunnels into one answer and because it is open-ended allows for more discussion from the devs..

A specific hybrid spec appears to be quite popular at current due to higher dps. In your play tests, do you have any numbers that support this theory in comparison to numbers for full lethality snipers?

This is my version of it lol...

There seems to be an DPS imbalance between a certain hybrid spec and full lethality. Are these 2 specs performing DPS wise as intended?

Another couple of small annoyances:

1. Laze Target seems a little pointless these days. It's a small dps increase, but doesn't seem very interesting any more. Back in 1.0 when stuff triggered off a crit, it was more useful, but now it seems vestigial.

2. This may have been covered, but killing a mob with Series of Shots disrupts your rotation since Followthrough doesn't come off cooldown. You can work around it, but it is jarring, and even feels like the game is punishing you for killing the mob. Suggestion: Add killing a mob to the list of things that completes the cooldown for Followthrough.

PvP and PvE Question about cover

Are there plans to add a new ability that puts you in cover where you vs rolling into cover? Using either the ability or cover key; you roll into cover if you havea target and something is close enough. The problems with this is cover bug, rolling to a spot that LoS your target you are attacking, rolling into an AoE attack and rolling to another level in Huttball. You can drop where you are by deselecting your target. It doesn't work if you are getting attack.

PvP and PvE Question about cover

 

Are there plans to add a new ability that puts you in cover where you vs rolling into cover? Using either the ability or cover key; you roll into cover if you havea target and something is close enough. The problems with this is cover bug, rolling to a spot that LoS your target you are attacking, rolling into an AoE attack and rolling to another level in Huttball. You can drop where you are by deselecting your target. It doesn't work if you are getting attack.

Just fyi, there is already a feature that you are looking for. What you want to do is go into Preferences -> Key Bindings -> Targeting. Then you want to assign keys to "Take Cover" and "Take Cover in Place." Using the latter, you can drop into cover without deselecting the target. Because of the former, you can actually remove the skill "Take Cover" from your skill bar, because it will do the same thing, thus freeing up a spot!

Paowee, for my suggestion, I would like to get some feedback from the devs on why Marksmanship buffs don't consistently show up when rolling into cover. This, in coordination with "Not usable in air" and "Unable to take cover" bugs, is the bane of my existence in warzones. Basically, what steps are being taken to ensure a smoother cover-using experience?

but maybe a buff to Full Lethality sustained single target DPS instead.

yes yes yes

Bumping this, because there is some good preemptive discussion.

I'll most likely make 2 new threads, 1 pve and 1 pvp. But for sure i'll copy some discuession from here.

I'll most likely make 2 new threads, 1 pve and 1 pvp. But for sure i'll copy some discuession from here.

If I don't post this now I won't remember it, hope you don't mind dude

I'm hoping there's a question in here somewhere so my sincere apologies if it turns out to be just a general rambling post. I can't comment on pve as I'm pvp only. So with that in mind:

We're hated. By everyone. We're the primary target of shadows and dps scoundrels, dps sages love to los dot us, dps commando's these days seem to simply take great delight in going for us, vanguards...actually not sure they're odd these days but they do love pulling us if we move an inch and sentinels/guardians just can't get enough of us, they'll jump to the person standing next to us or ignore 5 other people just to get to us. Basically everyone will go for us at every opportunity. A lot of people have even said that after healers their next primarily target is the sniper.

We're even marked by some purely because of our advanced class, at least healers being marked are three different classes. We're subjected to a lot of unwarranted hate from others.

Why is that? It's because we're a good fairly balanced class that if left alone can prove to be a nightmare, they can't afford to let us free cast. That goes the same for any class in the right hands it's true but because of our cover mechanic that draws people to us much more than others because it's harder to get to us.

So why is it that in lowbie pvp, snipers are considered overpowered? Even by us snipers ourselves? The marksman spec especially until you are lvl 45 for engineering (plasma probe) or lvl 35 for lethality (cull, lvl 36 for lingering toxins, lethality is the spec i know the least).

For me it's that inequality that gives new snipers such a wake up call when they ding to lvl 55. They spend so much time in lowbie being OP that they never bother putting much time into learning their defensive skills. They put themselves in obvious dangerous positions, they try manuvers that worked in lowbie (due to the imabalance) that have no chance at lvl 55. Essentially with our class lowbie is a breeding ground for learning bad habbits.

TLDR: lvl 55 pvp is balanced for us whereas lowbie is not, we're OP and that hurts snipers when they make the final ding.

So my pvp question would be this:

What can you do to equalise the balance for snipers with other classes in lowbie pvp without breaking the class entirely and whilst not endangering the precarious balance we have at lvl 55?

Reason for asking that question:

I've leveled a lot of snipers, far more than most other people I know and it's quite apparent that snipers have a huge advantage for a long time in lowbie pvp. I believe that this hurts snipers by giving them a false impression of what lvl 55 is going to be like and the constant calls of snipers being OP are formed from memories of snipers in lowbie. I would have that imbalance fixed to provide a better experience in lowbie and several passive benefits for those of us in lvl 55.