Here we go again... Sigh.

If you don't understand how to counter our roll simply by using any one of the roots, stuns, snares, or slows in this game (and this game has a ton of them) then you are just bad. I hate to say that because I would prefer to keep the forums more open to discussions on legit topics. But not using one of your abilities to easily negate this ability, then you are bad... And by the way, we can't roll so fast that enemies can't still reach us to interrupt a cap... Especially since most other classes have either a ranged attack, or a leap/pull to use. Again, here is the link to my video showing how this ability really works.

Sounds like BAD dps.

Your emergency medpac heals for 3-4k on a crit, go compare that to the DPS of lets say, dispatch or aimed shot.

 

Tell me what server you play on ?

 

lol....

Lol, seriously.. 4 players and they couldn't kill you.. 1 player should be able to pressure you enough so that just one other one can come in for a kill shot. Maybe they weren't all focusing on you, but on other people around you.. haha.

God. The claims in these threads are rediculous. It's "He killed me before I stood back up" all over again.

An operative getting to the ball before a sage/shadow is even off the first ramp is IMPOSSIBLE. Unless the sage simply forgot they have a sprint and didn't use it. Even then it's highly doubtful they covered that much distance.

And guess what. Shadows could do the same thing in voidstar with good group support. Team slows, stuns, roots the defending team while the Shadow sprints ahead in stealth. Now scoundrels can do it too. That's all the roll really does. It puts Scoundrels/Operatives on equal footing with Shadows/Assassins in terms of speed. Just get used to it. If you see a scoundrel/operative, be aware they have some ability to cover distance quickly.

Holding off 4 people isn't that hard too do as a healer op/scoundrel. The emergency medpack instantly re-granting upper hand when you use it under 30% makes it spammable if you're hovering around that health with the enemy team beating on you. I'm not saying you can do anything back to them because you're going to be spamming your heal, but staving off 4 people is relatively easy if you know what you're doing.

The energy cost for this ability isn't that much of an issue. As has been pointed out, you have plenty of energy management tools to help counter the fairly small amount of energy this sucks away from you.

As for "Oh well use a root/snare/stun etc" It's feasible if your team is focusing the person. However, any DPS op/scoundrel knows they're a hit and run class and tends to pick up on one person while the majoridy of the team is focused on somebody else. Chain stunning isn't hard, and you can usually take a person out within the window of the chain stuns. A healer is usually guarded and the tank is sucking up a good majoridy of the damage while the healer keeps them both up.

Plus, the second they realize they're in trouble, CC break and roll away and they're home free.

The roll has more speed potential than anything else in the game. I started DPSing a sorc, he hit force run, I paced my roll a little and was right on top of him when force speed wore off and put him in the dirt.

Don't kid yourselves, this ability is highly over-powered in terms of PvP gameplay. Arguing it takes too much energy or one of these other silly arguments is, well, silly. As I said, any good operative/scoundrel will die once or twice, but a great one who understands just how to utilize this roll and skills is literally going to be unkillable.

QQ about this alleged QQ if you want, but a cool down would bring this more into balance.

I love when people claim to play the class to try and give legitimacy to their nerf cry.

 

You held off 4 people, Orly ?

This^

Oh, and OP, why should sniper's roll get a huge CD and not this one?

Sniper's roll breaks all movement impairing effects, increases dodge/resist by 200% (invincible), rolls forward. If lethality, places a dot. If Engineering, places some bombs. If MM, allows you to gain full CC immunity for 3 seconds while in cover, and then for 6 seconds after that, movement impairing immunity and 50% speed. It has no counter. It breaks everything, and gives them huge immunities.

Note that the CC breaker has a longer CD than the CCs themselves; CC breaker > CCs.

Note that electronet has a longer CD than vanishes, speed boosts, etc. Electronet > speed boosts.

It can be seen easily that lower CDs belong with crappier moves that have lots of counters. Longer CD moves are usually better.

Note that the sniper's roll is amazing, and free of energy cost. Note that electronet's Damage Per Heat efficiency is the highest of any bounty hunter. CC breaker is free.

Our roll, on the other hand, is one of these "lower tiered" moves that is countered by many things; its high energy cost means we sacrifice damage/heals by overusing it. It CANNOT be used while immobilized at all. We get a 1/2 distance penalty if we're slowed.

In giving it a cooldown, you're turning it from a bread and butter low tier easily counter able move into a higher tier, less counter able move, else you've ******* on us operatives yet again. BW should not give it a CD unless they remove the energy cost, or make it extremely cheap, and take away at least some of the movement penalties that affect it.

We'll still be rollin,' and you'll still be hatin,' because it will be more powerful.

TL;DR If you will not make the roll better in giving it a CD, you are not looking for balance as you claim; you are looking for more unjustified nerfs because you need to stop QQing, need to learn to play, and need to learn to counter this easily counter able move.

Though I love the roll for an escape (I'm 2 levels away from getting it myself, but fighting against Ops with it I can see how useful it is), or gap closer, I do wonder if the "Transcendence" map clearing effect was intended.

How about, and this is just throwing an idea out, rather than a cool-down, each use adds a stacking debuff to you for X seconds (to be decided) that increases the energy cost of the next roll. Maybe they could then *reduce* the cost of the first roll.

So, for example, first roll is 15e, but adds debuff for 6s that increases cost by 10e, so next 25e, 35e, etc.

Thoughts?

So Mauraders can use Predation, Juggs can Leap, Sins and PT's can pull, Snipers get CC immunity, Sorcs pull friendlies, so let the poor Operative have a place in PVP and roll!

God forbid we have use for an operative in a WZ.

The sniper/gunslinger roll grants you that dodge for the duration you're rolling. That's all of what, a second? Oh no, that's some serious "invincibility" right there.

I'm still amused by the fact you're still countering with this energy cost being the main drawback to this ability. Ever used your adrenaline probe/cool head? Use it smart and it basically negates it. Plus, two rolls at full energy, your energy is regenned in about 2 seconds, if that. Your argument of energy cost is quite flimsy, though I would say that's putting it mildly.

Once again, for the snare/root/cc etc argument. Any half-brained op/scoundrel (or PvPer for that matter) is going to smartly utilize their CC break and then, if they're in trouble, use something to help them get the hell out of dodge.

Also, the argument is moslty based around the ridiculous amount of ground this ability helps you cover in a short amount of time. Two ops/scoundrels on one team in huttball can essentially win the game single-handedly.

I know I'm fighting an uphill battle here, anyone who fancies this ability is going to viciously attack any arguments about "nerfing" it no matter how sensible it is, or how flimsy an argument they have as to why it should be left alone.

All I can say is watch one good operative/scoundrel who knows how to effectively utilize this roll, and you SHOULD be able to see how out of whack this manuever is.

So Mauraders can use Predation, Juggs can Leap, Sins and PT's can pull, Snipers get CC immunity, Sorcs pull friendlies, so let the poor Operative have a place in PVP and roll!

 

God forbid we have use for an operative in a WZ.

You're taking it to the extreme there. I'm not suggesting the ability be removed, but it needs a CD added to it most definitely. All of those other abilities have cooldowns, so there's a shot in the face to your argument.

You're taking it to the extreme there. I'm not suggesting the ability be removed, but it needs a CD added to it most definitely. All of those other abilities have cooldowns, so there's a shot in the face to your argument.

My point is that the operatives got something somewhat useful and its the end of the world. Keep shots in your own face please. lol

It needs an internal cooldown, and it will probably have one, we've seen them put ICDs on a few abilities when they first try to modify them.

It would still be very useful if it were allowed to be used, let's say twice in 10 seconds. After 10s ICD resets and you can use it twice again.

That's still faster than pretty much anything but carnage predation. And it would prevent getting to nodes twice as fast as any other class.

\I'm still amused by the fact you're still countering with this energy cost being the main drawback to this ability. Ever used your adrenaline probe/cool head? Use it smart and it basically negates it. Plus, two rolls at full energy, your energy is regenned in about 2 seconds, if that. Your argument of energy cost is quite flimsy, though I would say that's putting it mildly.

 

Once again, for the snare/root/cc etc argument. Any half-brained op/scoundrel (or PvPer for that matter) is going to smartly utilize their CC break and then, if they're in trouble, use something to help them get the hell out of dodge.

 

All I can say is watch one good operative/scoundrel who knows how to effectively utilize this roll, and you SHOULD be able to see how out of whack this manuever is.

Roll costs 25 energy, right? And I regen 6 energy per second when in the top energy bracket...

Roll - 75 energy

1 second later 81 energy

.5 seconds later roll again as my roll is off gcd - 56 energy

100-56= 44. 44/6 = 7 seconds until my energy is back to max.

Do you play Op/Scoundrel? It seems like you don't, you just know everything about them from playing against them. Every day since I hit 51 and got the roll I've noticed myself getting slowed more and more on PVP. It's not bad when a merc or sniper puts the slow on me, I can cleanse that, but when it's a sorc using his 12 second (or whatever, it's long) slow, I can't cleanse that and I can use my dodge to remove it, which is on a 60 cd. If I happened to use my dodge against a high impact bolt/rail shot or masterstrike/ravage then I'm SOL. Or are you actually suggesting that people are using their CC break just to remove a slow so they can ROFLroll away? Oh, you did suggest that, and even said that it's what a smart scoundrel would do. I guess saving my CC break for a white bar situation is one of the many reasons I'm so bad at this game.

Biowares reason for the roll!

Reason for the roll

Roll costs 25 energy, right? And I regen 6 energy per second when in the top energy bracket...

 

Roll - 75 energy

1 second later 81 energy

.5 seconds later roll again as my roll is off gcd - 56 energy

100-56= 44. 44/6 = 7 seconds until my energy is back to max.

 

Do you play Op/Scoundrel? It seems like you don't, you just know everything about them from playing against them. Every day since I hit 51 and got the roll I've noticed myself getting slowed more and more on PVP. It's not bad when a merc or sniper puts the slow on me, I can cleanse that, but when it's a sorc using his 12 second (or whatever, it's long) slow, I can't cleanse that and I can use my dodge to remove it, which is on a 60 cd. If I happened to use my dodge against a high impact bolt/rail shot or masterstrike/ravage then I'm SOL. Or are you actually suggesting that people are using their CC break just to remove a slow so they can ROFLroll away? Oh, you did suggest that, and even said that it's what a smart scoundrel would do. I guess saving my CC break for a white bar situation is one of the many reasons I'm so bad at this game.

You are pretty terrible.. you should CC break as soon as the first CC gets on you.

You are pretty terrible.. you should CC break as soon as the first CC gets on you.

I lol'd. Good one.

They see me rollin

They hatin

Just shot first some kid for seven thousand thirty

It dosnt take that much energy and ops have several abilities to regain energy quickly.

It takes 1/4 of their energy per roll and they have 1 ability for energy regen.

The fact that a good amount of classes dont have any snairs makes arguments for that moot as well.

Guard/Jugg have aoe snare, Sent/Maur have a multi target snare, Scoundrel/Oper have a snare, Sniper/Gunslinger have an aoe snare, Merc/Comm have snare, vanguard/powertech have snare, shadow/assassin have snare, Sorc/Sage have snare.......... hmmm seems like ever single class has access to a snare.... hmmmmmmmm

Its extremely unfair that they can roll through fire and move faster than every player in the game.

Like other classes can. The fact that they may be the fastest is irrelevant, as one class must be the fastest... I'm guessing you play a sorc right about now.

They have virtually endless cc including group cc's!

Dirty Kick/Debilitate and Flash Bang(aoe) very endless

an ability that protects them from all damage while allowing them to continue moving.

To bad the shield doesn't last as long as the GCD

I just thought I would correct your perception.

This will be fun.

The sniper/gunslinger roll grants you that dodge for the duration you're rolling. That's all of what, a second? Oh no, that's some serious "invincibility" right there.

Also breaks all CC, goes for a much longer distance, and in certain specs, grants entrench + more CC immunity.

I'm still amused by the fact you're still countering with this energy cost being the main drawback to this ability. Ever used your adrenaline probe/cool head? Use it smart and it basically negates it. Plus, two rolls at full energy, your energy is regenned in about 2 seconds, if that. Your argument of energy cost is quite flimsy, though I would say that's putting it mildly.

Cool head breaks stealth, so ~6 seconds where a scoundrel will be visible which can ruin some tactics. Cool Head is also a 2 minute cooldown. Two rolls is still well within 30 meters for a leap, closer if the scoundrel was slowed. The energy cost IS high. To say it's not means you really don't understand how Scoundrel energy regen works.

 

Once again, for the snare/root/cc etc argument. Any half-brained op/scoundrel (or PvPer for that matter) is going to smartly utilize their CC break and then, if they're in trouble, use something to help them get the hell out of dodge.

Complete waste of a CC break if you're using it on a root or slow. Those can just be reapplied, and now you have no CC break when you get hard stunned.

Also, the argument is moslty based around the ridiculous amount of ground this ability helps you cover in a short amount of time. Two ops/scoundrels on one team in huttball can essentially win the game single-handedly.

Sages and Shadows already do this. And easier too with Sages being able to pull teammates. And their sprint is not slowed by the Huttball, while Scoundrel's roll is.

I know I'm fighting an uphill battle here, anyone who fancies this ability is going to viciously attack any arguments about "nerfing" it no matter how sensible it is, or how flimsy an argument they have as to why it should be left alone.

You're fighting an uphill battle, because your argument is essentially. "This is powerful, nerf it." I can make very similar claims for many other class abilities. A Jedi Knight for instance can leap to an enemy right after grabbing the ball, push that enemy across the fire pit, leap again, then leap to an ally that ran ahead, and still have CC immunity so they can just walk across the goal line. Now that's pretty overpowered, don't you think?

You're fighting an uphill battle, because your argument is essentially. "This is powerful, nerf it." I can make very similar claims for many other class abilities. A Jedi Knight for instance can leap to an enemy right after grabbing the ball, push that enemy across the fire pit, leap again, then leap to an ally that ran ahead, and still have CC immunity so they can just walk across the goal line. Now that's pretty overpowered, don't you think?

No, that's working as intended since it's been in the game as long as people can remember and it's what they are used to. Knights are supposed to run the ball and leap, sages are supposed to run the ball and pull, pts/vgs are supposed to pull enemies away from the goal line and into fire traps, assassins are supposed to knockback enemies into firetraps/the pit, and scoundrels are supposed to hate huttball because they are the person constantly getting leapt to, killed in fire traps, or knocked into the pit and have no gap closer to get back into position. That's the way it has always been and that's the way it should always be.

No, that's working as intended since it's been in the game as long as people can remember and it's what they are used to. Knights are supposed to run the ball and leap, sages are supposed to run the ball and pull, pts/vgs are supposed to pull enemies away from the goal line and into fire traps, assassins are supposed to knockback enemies into firetraps/the pit, and scoundrels are supposed to hate huttball because they are the person constantly getting leapt to, killed in fire traps, or knocked into the pit and have no gap closer to get back into position. That's the way it has always been and that's the way it should always be.

Yup, scoundrels/operatives have the worst moving heals ever (SARCASM DETECTED), it makes them such easy prey when they just roll and lol from the dps. Not a single one of the other abilities you mentioned are instantly reusable.

Yup, scoundrels/operatives have the worst moving heals ever (SARCASM DETECTED), it makes them such easy prey when they just roll and lol from the dps. Not a single one of the other abilities you mentioned are instantly reusable.

Good thing every class has a slow then. I love spamming the roll 3 times just to end up 18 meters away with 40% energy.

And what about a jugg/guardian? I don't have one so I don't know the specifics, but can't they leap > force push > leap > friendly leap, one after the other?

Yup, scoundrels/operatives have the worst moving heals ever (SARCASM DETECTED), it makes them such easy prey when they just roll and lol from the dps. Not a single one of the other abilities you mentioned are instantly reusable.

Not everyone wants to ONLY heal. Terrible argument.

People comparing scamper to skills that aren't spammable and are on cooldowns...

...please stop. Scamper is probably the most poorly implemented skill I have seen in any MMO and

clearly a failed copy of that panda skill from WoW like everything else in this game.

There is no reason in this game whatsoever that you need a spammable talent like that.

Maps are small, you're already playing lame stealth classes and every other class speed utility has a CD.

Now people spend 10 minutes chasing OPs in a circle.

OP class is officially the class for players that use training wheels.

Might as well call the skill speed hack.

Force Leap;

 

Damage

Root

Gap closer

Energy builder

Interrupt

 

Exfiltrate;

 

Escape

 

 

------------------------------------

 

???????????????

Force Leap;

15 sec cooldown

Must leap to an opponent

Exfiltrate;

No cooldown

Any direction

------------------------------------

???????????????

People comparing scamper to skills that aren't spammable and are on cooldowns...

 

...please stop. Scamper is probably the most poorly implemented skill I have seen in any MMO and

 

clearly a failed copy of that panda skill from WoW like everything else in this game.

 

There is no reason in this game whatsoever that you need a spammable talent like that.

 

Maps are small, you're already playing lame stealth classes and every other class speed utility has a CD.

 

Now people spend 10 minutes chasing OPs in a circle.

 

OP class is officially the class for players that use training wheels.

 

Might as well call the skill speed hack.

Yeah right. Might want to look at their scrapper/concealment tree and tell me where their mitigation is.

Want to make a case that only lethality/concealment should be able to go crazy with it? That might make some sense, since they are the softest target in the game.

I can kill a scoundrel/op in less then 5 seconds on my marauder and shadow (while being immune to all their attacks and CC).

If only they had an ability that completely screws over/counters "roll spam". Oh wait they DO, and it is on a class that had NO representation in ranked/competitive pvp. See Electro-net Merc/commando.

When I lead damage on my scoundrel/op? The entire battleground needs "training wheels", because I DOUBLE that output on my sniper, marauder and shadow.

Want to take away the roll or put a cooldown on it? Give me 25 percent mitigation out of stealth for 12 seconds (which I get on my infiltration shadow), 30 percent less damage from aoe (also get that) and mitigation/dmg talents which proc off my crits. Oh yeah and also make recuperate an instant heal (like shadow), and give me a 1.5 minute pvp trinket as opposed to 2, and my dodge should make me immune to CC as well.

Burst? It is the same on both classes, except the shadow/sin isn't tied to his opener, so yeah lower the cooldown on backblast as well to make it even.

The ONLY reason I still play my scoundrel is to make bad players rage with shotgun blasts to the head. My shadow will be geared first, because it is superior in every single way, except carrying a flag in huttball, and my shadow can do that pretty damn well...

I would also add that a op/scoundrel has 0 chance of beating a shadow/sin 1 v 1. If you lose that matchup? Delete your account.

So one class has stupid mitigation, higher burst out of stealth, is second best "speeder to nodes/capper", beats everything 1 v 1, and the other class gets a roll you want to take away.

Makes perfect sense. Logging in my scoundrel right now, and playing this song as my shotgun takes out all you crybabies.

Oh and in before some kid says "cloth armor? The shadow has a increased armor talent in infiltration, which puts them 2 percent behind a scoundrel/op A shadow specs into 6 percent mitigation from crits, and 2 all the time which puts them at 6 percent better then op/scoundrel BEFORE all the other mitigation (25 and 30, which is freakin 55 percent mitigation to aoe). Oh yeah that mitigation also blocks internal dmg.

If you even touch the roll for op/scoundrel? They better get all of the above and they can take shield probe and delete it, because it freakin sucks. Imagine the QQ then...