- Is it for loot?

- Is it because you don't know what else to do?

- Is it to be social and doing stuff with your guild?

- Is it because PvP is worse than a Justin Bieber song?

- Are you competative or is it simply just for the love of the game?

I don't understand how guilds can dedicate hours and hours to defeat computer controlled pixels so they can get even more pixels and computer coding with purple color. But that's just me.

What am I missing? Why do you PvE?

- Is it for loot?

- Is it because you don't know what else to do?

- Is it to be social and doing stuff with your guild?

- Is it because PvP is worse than a Justin Bieber song?

- Are you competative or is it simply just for the love of the game?

 

I don't understand how guilds can dedicate hours and hours to defeat computer controlled pixels so they can get even more pixels and computer coding with purple color. But that's just me.

 

What am I missing? Why do you PvE?

It can actually be fun sometimes. I play 90% PvP, but I do enjoy PvE sometimes.

It can actually be fun sometimes. I play 90% PvP, but I do enjoy PvE sometimes.

I just don't understand how playing against something where you already know what's gonna happend can be fun. That's the turn off at my end.

I just don't understand how playing against something where you already know what's gonna happend can be fun. That's the turn off at my end.

Yes, the mechanics are known ahead of time and are fixed, however it's one thing to 'know' what is going to happen. Reacting in the proper way to down a boss is different animal entirely. Just my opinion, and I'm not even a hard core raider. I've only gotten as far as DG HM, but I still get a rush every time we kill them.

Organised teamwork vs puzzle and personal character co-ordination and successfully fulfilling a role in the group.

Loot is somewhat secondary but there does have to be something in PVE or you end up losing interest.

PVP matches on the same maps are always repeatable for amusement as anyone who could sketch out every key point of dust2 could tell you.

I just don't understand how playing against something where you already know what's gonna happend can be fun. That's the turn off at my end.

its fun the way dancing is fun, the way acting in a theatrical performance is fun, singing in a band is fun. the point is in teamwork and execution and friends or at least people who like each other - having a good time together.

now, I understand the fun of pvp even if its not my preferred pastime, but it provides a very different dynamic from pve.

the thing to take away from this is... people have fun in a variety of ways and just because you personally cannot understand or relate? doesn't make it less fun or invalid to those who do.

for example, I just don't get baseball. oh I understand how the game is played, but it bores me silly, watching even more then tyring to play. and yet... people love it. REALLy love it. so who am I to rain on their parade.

- Is it for loot?

- Is it because you don't know what else to do?

- Is it to be social and doing stuff with your guild?

- Is it because PvP is worse than a Justin Bieber song?

- Are you competative or is it simply just for the love of the game?

 

I don't understand how guilds can dedicate hours and hours to defeat computer controlled pixels so they can get even more pixels and computer coding with purple color. But that's just me.

 

What am I missing? Why do you PvE?

i do itt for fun!

i solo for credits and comms, and for story too

run flashpoints for loot and group experiency

ow, and PVP sucks :-)

I like teh shineh l00tzors, but I also like the security of knowing that if I apply my skill at pushing buttons on my keyboard to the fullest, I'll almost be guarantied to succeed, something that isn't for sure in PVP. I enjoy both, but PVE is probably my favourite.

Also, lots of shiny cool number coming off the boss. Can't forget that.

I like PvE for the same reason that I prefer playing D&D to playing Risk/Monopoly/etc. The fun comes from the cooperative nature of overcoming a piece of content with my friends. In PvP, the only variation you'll experience is in variability of your opponents' group composition and relative skill level. While there are a lot of potential variations, most of them are worthless so you generally see a pretty limited real variation in composition. In PvE, while each individual fight is generally the same (or close enough that it doesn't matter, like the random nature of Olok the Shadow's fight or the order with which you can kill the Cartel Warlords), the fights, as a whole, are substantially more varied than you'll find in PvP.

There's also the aspect that some fights are just *fun*. It's like watching your favorite movie multiple times. There's only *one* fight in the entire game that, barring those with some balance issues (i.e. terribad spikiness combined with content designed like it was specifically built around killing Shadows based on RNG while letting the other tanks laugh at it), that I don't thoroughly enjoy. The fights aren't your standard fare and that makes them fun, even when you've done them time and again. I'll admit that some of them get old time and time again, but some are simply *amazing* (seriously, I want Soa to be brought back as at 55, even if it were for just a single boss fight; that fight is *amazeballs*).

It doesn't help that, in all of my experiences, PvP is pretty much where all of the rudest, most antagonistic, and most vitriolic players tend to pool, and, since I don't play the game to get rabid levels of insults and rudeness hurled at me no matter what I do, I don't like it and end up doing my damnedest to completely eliminate it from my gameplay if at all possible. PvE gets competitive and has its fair share of rude/insulting players, but it's cooperative competitiveness, not direct competition between two groups where you either win or you lose, and you're only liable to get coated in hate if you're playing like an idiot.

I try to do role-playing (like within my TDE pen & paper group), but in fact I had to acknowledge that SWTOR is in fact an hack & slay Action-RPG after Blizzard's overly-successful model.

And since I just can't stand hack & slay, I do know that I'll get off SWTOR at one point in the future (probably after all my class stories are done, and I exclusively play Republic).

I just can't stand slaying and slashing masses of NPC hordes. I just can't. I'm far too sensitive for that.

But - Programmers and Developers following Blizzard's success/model just expect that.

That players are willing to do as much hack & slay with only micromarginal social NPC interaaction as possible.

So, in fact, ALL MMORPGs that i know of cater only 1 kind of gamer : Those who absolutely love hack & slay.

I do it 4 teh lulz.

Nice troll attempt, I'll give it 4/5 for the effort.

I do it 4 teh lulz.

 

Nice troll attempt, I'll give it 4/5 for the effort.

You give 4/5 to yourself ???

You give 4/5 to yourself ???

Nay, not for such an half-*****ed retort. That's barely worth 1/5 and i'm generous, but I did not get my 3rd coffee yet and don't feel like launching in a full-fledged PvEr vs PvPr forum war right now so I figured I would just mention my trollscanner had stirred out of sleep mode on reading the OP.

I want Soa to be brought back as at 55, even if it were for just a single boss fight;

I so agree with this. For me it is only second to Terror for fun factor. Pre-1.2, it really required competence from everyone. Coordinating *exactly* when to push Soa so that nobody was in a mind trap or going to be dropped to their death took a pretty decent team to do. And even if the pre-1.2 RNG is too much, I'd love to see some kind of extra mechanic added there. Maybe have the ancient pylons explode with a knockback when they die.

As long as we are on the subject, the fight I hated the most was Karagga. Who's bright idea was it to add a "prostate exam" to this fight? The other mechanics are fine, but the drill thing is just dumb. Even more irritating than Chief's let's-stun-all-the-melee-every-10-seconds mechanic.

The biggest problem with PvP is that, while you may not know the outcome, there isn't a lot you can do about it either. Unless you are doing ranked or premades, most matches seem to be decided when the queue pops, based on who you got in your group vs the other team. The truly close competitive matches where your individual performance actually makes any difference at all are rare.

- Is it for loot?

- Is it because you don't know what else to do?

- Is it to be social and doing stuff with your guild?

- Is it because PvP is worse than a Justin Bieber song?

- Are you competative or is it simply just for the love of the game?

 

I don't understand how guilds can dedicate hours and hours to defeat computer controlled pixels so they can get even more pixels and computer coding with purple color. But that's just me.

 

What am I missing? Why do you PvE?

Being utterly bored of PVP and the 1 map per year approach, I dabble in raids twice a week.

For me it's the rush of downing a boss for the first time. The exhilaration I get when I and my teammates perform perfectly and everything coalesces into a win.

Above all else...THIS

I have been playing MMOs for more than a decade, and this feeling is what keeps bringing me back.

Yes, the mechanics are known ahead of time and are fixed, however it's one thing to 'know' what is going to happen. Reacting in the proper way to down a boss is different animal entirely. Just my opinion, and I'm not even a hard core raider. I've only gotten as far as DG HM, but I still get a rush every time we kill them.

Again this. Knowing what to do is one thing, being able to execute it is VERY different. Reading all the strategy guides and watching umpteen videos never REALLY prepares you for a boss fight. Only by engaging and seeing the fight for yourself do you really begin to understand the potential difficulties. Furthermore, PvE and PvP are not that much different when it comes to strategies - for every WZ there's only maybe three viable strategies that work with any consistency. The only variable is which team executes their chosen strategy better.

its fun the way dancing is fun, the way acting in a theatrical performance is fun, singing in a band is fun. the point is in teamwork and execution and friends or at least people who like each other - having a good time together.

 

now, I understand the fun of pvp even if its not my preferred pastime, but it provides a very different dynamic from pve.

 

the thing to take away from this is... people have fun in a variety of ways and just because you personally cannot understand or relate? doesn't make it less fun or invalid to those who do.

 

for example, I just don't get baseball. oh I understand how the game is played, but it bores me silly, watching even more then tyring to play. and yet... people love it. REALLy love it. so who am I to rain on their parade.

+1

In addition, on the gear side of things, in PvE there is no "participation award". In PvP you can lose EVERY match/encounter you EVER engage in and still eventually acquire the best gear available for that aspect of the game because simply participating you get WZ comms. In PvE, you don't down the boss you don't get jack squat.

Lastly, in all candor, I am just not good at PvP. I get my *** kicked more often than I kick ***, and it is not a matter of practice or rotation or spec or gear, it is a matter of the fact that I do not have the manual dexterity in my hands and fingers to do all the crazy **** that the best players do. And getting my *** kicked is not fun...period.

- Is it for loot?

Yes

- Is it because you don't know what else to do?

No

- Is it to be social and doing stuff with your guild?

Maybe

- Is it because PvP is worse than a Justin Bieber song?

I don't know

- Are you competative or is it simply just for the love of the game?

Can you repeat the question

For me it is only second to Terror for fun factor.

Terror is fun, but I'm not sure it's more fun than Soa was. TfB has some kewl mechanics, and I love how it takes you inside the wormhole for the other half of the fight, but I think the raw epicness of "gonna asplode the floor and make you jump down it!" was way more awesome.

I'd love to see some kind of extra mechanic added there.

Throw the Infernal Council into the fight as adds. 4 random council members jump down to help out Soa during phases 1 and 2, with all 8 of them being resurrected in p3. The first player to attack 'em gets the debuff as normal (probably need to change it so that any damage from anyone that doesn't have the debuff fully heals the target or the council member increases damage and DR by a crapton for each person with the debuff; either that, or make the debuff only last ~10 secs or so).

Conversely, the phase transition could be done such that you need to split the group, with one tank/heal/2DPS going down each side, to cover all of the platforms (going off of the Infernal Council thing, there are 2 members of the council on each descent path, each opposite the other, that have to be killed before the next phase starts or they go berserk and start demolishing everyone).

As long as we are on the subject, the fight I hated the most was Karagga.

To me, Karagga sucked because it was a complete let down of a final boss. It's pretty much a tank/spank with no phase changes whatsoever. The DPS requirements weren't even all that high. Karagga was designed more like an intro boss than a final boss: none of his mechanics were all that interesting or hard to deal with and you saw the entire fight 1m in. Pretty much every other fight in there was more fun than Karagga. Hell, most of them were more difficult, too.

It would be really kewl if they brought back and revamped some of the old 50 ops bosses to 55. Just make 'em one shot, no trash weeklies like Toborro's with random loot tables. Warlord Kephess, Karagga (if they actually revamped him proper so that he's not just the same boring stuff, over and over), and Soa would *all* do really well for this.

For me it's the rush of downing a boss for the first time. The exhilaration I get when I and my teammates perform perfectly and everything coalesces into a win.

^This.

I'm not in it for loot,

I'm not in it for world first,

I'm in for the kill.

It would be really kewl if they brought back and revamped some of the old 50 ops bosses to 55. Just make 'em one shot, no trash weeklies like Toborro's with random loot tables. Warlord Kephess, Karagga (if they actually revamped him proper so that he's not just the same boring stuff, over and over), and Soa would *all* do really well for this.

That would be ok if they would keep working on the new things in the same time. We know they are not capable of that, so I'd rather them focus on creating new instances.

I'm glad that this thread didn't instantaneously degrade into the PvP vs PvE battle as I thought it might... :-)

To answer the OP, I PvE because it's a puzzle. More importantly, it's a puzzle performed with multiple actors, each with different capabilities stemming from their class and varied skill level stemming from the player. If it were really as simple as "already knowing the outcome", then any group where everyone has watched the walkthrough videos would be able to one-shot the boss every time. That's not how it works though. Bosses have scripted sequences that they go through, and those sequences require reaction of the appropriate type and at the appropriate time. Sometimes there are different ways to react to the same actions. All members of your group must react appropriately, and this is where you start seeing a HUGE amount of variation.

Additionally, people tend to forget that PvP is strictly constrained by class mechanics. Absent hilarious bolster bugs, no one will ever hit you in PvP with a single ability that does 16k damage. Never. Kel'sara, on the other hand, will do this to her tank once every 15-20 seconds. No one in PvP has 2 million HP. These sorts of things alone tend to turn PvP into more of a burst fight, where sustain and mathematical optimality matter naught. When was the last time you saw a sage run out of mana in PvP? When did you see a Combat sentinel who cared enough about sustained rotation to ensure proper proc maintenance and reaction timing? Conversely, note how frequently *tanks* run with DPS gear in warzones. PvE has tighter mathematical constraints, and I really enjoy that aspect of it. That's not to say there aren't people in PvP who care about these things, but they just don't play that significant of a role.

PvE also has a lot of analytical and strategic components to it. I spend a lot more time digging through combat logs and watching post-wipe FRAPS to find ways to optimize the group's performance and tweak our strategy just a bit. I spend time working with individual players, futzing their rotation timing w.r.t. the boss mechanics so as to eke out that extra little bit. While I do *some* of this sort of thing in PvP (I enjoy playing 1v1s and 2v2s in my mind between various classes), it just doesn't have the same prominence.

As for gear, it is for me a means to an end. I need gear so that I can do the content. That's about it. I do care somewhat about gear that represents extremely rare drops, since I do have a streak of vanity that enjoys it when random people on fleet know that my group has completed a particular challenge. Overall though, gear doesn't really motivate me to raid.

I do PvP a lot, and I enjoy it for what it is. I have multiple characters above Valor 70. I've leveled most of my characters at least 50% through warzones, and one of them is going from 50-55 *exclusively* via PvP. It's fun, especially post-2.0, but I still like raiding better.