Okay, a very general question so I'm going to give you a full answer. I would not by any means consider myself a master of either class, these are just from my personal experiences playing with and against them.

Sage:

A ranged casting class, think of it as this games 'mage' class. You have light armor and few defensive cool downs, a glass cannon and probably the squishiest of the game. Though it is a ranged class, your auto-attack (the weak damage one that is used to help regain resources) making it useless. As soon as you pick your sage AC get those light saber attacks off your hotbar. Your main issue with this class will be resource management, and defenses.

These are the three sage talent trees:

Seer (Healing)

This is currently the weakest healing class in the game. Most are cast heals which can be easily shut down in PVP, in addition to your squishness, pvping a sage healer is like wearing a free kill sign. While it is more viable in PVE, it only really has big heals which use up a lot of your resources and lacks a minor free heal which both other healing classes have. Only recommended once familiar with the class.

Telekinetics (DPS)

You're bread and butter casting tree. Powerful cast somewhat 'bursty' dps. But due to the long cast-times it, like seer, is too easily shut down in PVP to be a very good option. This spec works better in a PVE environment, where the focus is someone else and you're left to cast and do your own damage.

Balance (DPS)

Probably the most popular sage tree, it helps forgo some of the casting required in the Telekinetics tree for instant-cast sustained and/or aoe damage. It thrives on DoTs, this can be fluff damage in comparison to Telekinetic sage if not with the right sort of team. Most viable spec for PVP, and a good solid spec for PVE.

Shadow

Melee stealth class, very 'rogue' like. Still light armor, but not as delicate as the sage. Thrives on controlling the fight, and has an arsenal of escape abilities for sticky situations. Your main issue with this class will be the lack of sustained and aoe damage, and low dps output (PVE only issue)

Three Shadow Talent Trees:

Kinetic Combat (Tank):

Most viable shadow tree for PVE (some say the only one). As far as tanks go, you'll rely more on mitigation then any other and have to watch your procs closely. It isn't an easy class to tank with, but most find it easiest to hold threat with. You are still wearing light armor, so expect spike damage. A solid PVE tank, a 'meh' PVP one.

Infiltration (DPS):

Completely single-target with great burst damage, also the 'stealth-focused' spec. A lot of stuns to use, and decent resource management. The most popular shadow spec in the game (probably). It's damage doesn't really stack up in comparison to the other classes in PVE (some teams pass over dps shadows completely) but PVP is where this spec excels anyways. Some proc watching, but not as much is needed as with KC.

Balance (DPS):

No.

I have to disagree about Sage being the weakest healer in game. In PvP certainly true, bu they perform extremely well in raids because of Bubble, Salvation and few other strong heals, like Healing Trance. They have normal casted heal (Benevolence) and longer cast heal (Deliverance)

Edit: Sorry, I misread ur post u said Sages aren't good for PvP, not that they wouldn't be viable for PvE, I apologize

Balance (DPS):

No.

I lol'd.

If you don't know how to play balance - that doesn't mean It is bad.

Well it is bad but you can still get higher DPS than with infiltration. So I'm not really sure where the No comes from

Balance (DPS):

No.

I'm assuming im doing it all wrong?

I'm currently leveling a Shadow in Balance and I have to say I'm loving it and its perfectly viable in PVE. It definitely could be better though. PVP, I honestly cant speak for, but if you can do well with this spec, you're an attentive player to say the least.

Well it is bad but you can still get higher DPS than with infiltration. So I'm not really sure where the No comes from

Dps shadows have a hard time keeping up in pve, a few nightmare-mode ops groups won't even accept them. Infiltration has the redeeming factor of being one of the best pvp specs in game. While balance is just somewhere between 'bleh' and 'meh' all around. Also I didn't feel like typing all I'm about to below.

I'm assuming im doing it all wrong?

 

I'm currently leveling a Shadow in Balance and I have to say I'm loving it and its perfectly viable in PVE. It definitely could be better though. PVP, I honestly cant speak for, but if you can do well with this spec, you're an attentive player to say the least.

Any spec is fine leveling, whatever you have most fun with, and I wont deny balance can be a really fun spec. And of course there is no 'wrong way' to spec your character, just some are more recommended then others.

Balance lacks a lot of things, including resource management and range that sages get with it, the uselessness of stealth, and it's survive-ability. Most attacks are mid-ranged, but to get the procs you have to run of close and spend more force on double-strike. A lot of double-strike. And with few defensive cool-downs it's very easy to get stun, snared, and squished. The only real heavy-hitting ability they have is spinning strike, the execute move (shadow strike and project are too expensive/take too long to position for viability) and even then it requires another move from mid-range to up-close to hit and again risk the squish. That and most damage feels 'fluff' unless you are able to monitor and keep your dots up constantly (can be difficult in pve and near impossible in pvp).

Again, I'll repeat I'm by no means an expert and I'm sure a dozen people will come along and correct me, which might be a good thing. But this is just was I've learned though having both a 55 shadow and assassin. I'd also suggest looking at the guides stickyed to the class pages, as they'd have more clear, detailed, and professional advice.

I really like playing Sage/Sorcerer. The 30m range of their attacks makes them my favorite Force User class. I also like that they can cast heals and shields and both start off with a melee tank companion. My Commando has higher dps and can wear heavy armor, but as far a Jedi/Sith go Sage/Sorcerer is my choice. I'm not too fond of melee classes.

The Sage/Sorcerer play style is blast from a distance and provide support to other team members. Shadow is much closer range but has benefits of stealth and can carry a shield generator. Sage is like a wizard while Shadow is like a kung-fu tank.

Shadow's ranged attacks have such a short range that it makes me wonder what the point is.

The Consular and Inquisitor stories are both different, so why not make one of each so you can experience the stories and decide which mechanics you prefer?

I think that Consular Sage is very strong. I have soloed the entire story arc on two different servers with Sage. I think the problem some people encounter with Sage is that it takes time to develop the character and to learn to use it in specific ways. I find that Qyzen Fess is the best companion and Ashara the next best for Sage. To date, I have 17 characters. I feel and think that in comparison to traditional mmorpgs that use the triad system of combat, the Sage plays more like a cleric.

I find that many players fail to assess what that enemy strength and weakness are in front of them. Also, I find that players underestimate the crowd control abilities of the Sage and do not really use them.

I am on my first high level character (I am new to the MMO thing anyway) and I have a level 41 Shadow. One of the things that I love about this class is that you can sneak by enemies. I hate it when I kill a group of enemies and have to kill them again as a leave an area. It annoys me. With Shadow, this is not a problem (generally).

I also like that Shadow allows for a great exploration class. I have unlocked numerous areas (including heroic areas) on the map because I can sneak into the area.

When I DPS with my Shadow, I run him in the Balance Tree. I am not a number cruncher, so I won't argue whether or not it puts out the best numbers, but I find it much more fun personally than Infiltration. I primarily use my DPS spec to run Dailies and Tactical FPs, and that has been a large influence on my choice. I have framed this discussion in response to LouLouJ, not because I disagree, but because he/she provided many good discussion points.

Most attacks are mid-ranged, but to get the procs you have to run of close and spend more force on double-strike.

That is something I like. I enjoy moving around, having to get in close to proc things, then getting back to safety to do damage. It provides more engagement to me than simply standing at 30m and casting things while Qyzen holds aggro.

That and most damage feels 'fluff' unless you are able to monitor and keep your dots up constantly

This took some getting used to, but now I treat it almost like a puzzle. "Which ability should I cast to keep up my DoTs? What is about to expire? Can I get in another GCD to proc something?" Sure, it may not be as fulfilling as launching into a barrage of instant heavy-hitting moves, but I like being able to think through my fights and play around with it a bit.

the uselessness of stealth

This was actually the main reason I chose Balance. Since I am usually a tank on my shadow, I will respec to run dailies. I take Qyzen or Nadia along to blow stuff up while I deal damage. I tried Infiltration first, but since it relies on stealth so much, I found I was resetting mobs every time I used Blackout. I'm sure there were other ways around that problem, but I tried Balance and found it was actually pretty fun. I didn't rely on stealth, but could use it if I needed to as a utility to sneak by mobs and escape annoying fights.

Any spec is fine leveling, whatever you have most fun with, and I wont deny balance can be a really fun spec. And of course there is no 'wrong way' to spec your character, just some are more recommended then others.

In the end, this is the bottom line. I have more fun DPSing in a Balance spec, and while many number-crunchers will vehemently disagree, I trust the developers to not leave me out to dry when it comes down to balancing classes. I suggest trying several different builds, see what works for you, and then just pick what's the most fun. This is a game, after all.

I'm assuming im doing it all wrong?

 

I'm currently leveling a Shadow in Balance and I have to say I'm loving it and its perfectly viable in PVE. It definitely could be better though. PVP, I honestly cant speak for, but if you can do well with this spec, you're an attentive player to say the least.

When those shiny new changes for Balance come out, i think that Balance will become the most viable PvP Shadow Spec, and probably the best Shadow PvE spec for Sustained. And it will just rock in general. (consular jokes FTW)

When those shiny new changes for Balance come out, i think that Balance will become the most viable PvP Shadow Spec, and probably the best Shadow PvE spec for Sustained. And it will just rock in general. (consular jokes FTW)

I been testing this on the test server for my Sage and I can honestly say yes, it will actually be better in damage than what it is now, the Merc I was having issues with in PvP with the hit and run rail shot tactic has been solved by giving us this "Dot" dps boost.

From what I gather, my son who has a 55 Shadow, says that Balance in PvE is decent but he will still be running his mid tree for PvP as it has a lot better burst , he did want me to mention the instant cast force lift helps him control the fights better when there is more than one opponent.

Dps shadows have a hard time keeping up in pve, a few nightmare-mode ops groups won't even accept them. Infiltration has the redeeming factor of being one of the best pvp specs in game. While balance is just somewhere between 'bleh' and 'meh' all around. Also I didn't feel like typing all I'm about to below.

 

 

 

Any spec is fine leveling, whatever you have most fun with, and I wont deny balance can be a really fun spec. And of course there is no 'wrong way' to spec your character, just some are more recommended then others.

 

Balance lacks a lot of things, including resource management and range that sages get with it, the uselessness of stealth, and it's survive-ability. Most attacks are mid-ranged, but to get the procs you have to run of close and spend more force on double-strike. A lot of double-strike. And with few defensive cool-downs it's very easy to get stun, snared, and squished. The only real heavy-hitting ability they have is spinning strike, the execute move (shadow strike and project are too expensive/take too long to position for viability) and even then it requires another move from mid-range to up-close to hit and again risk the squish. That and most damage feels 'fluff' unless you are able to monitor and keep your dots up constantly (can be difficult in pve and near impossible in pvp).

 

Again, I'll repeat I'm by no means an expert and I'm sure a dozen people will come along and correct me, which might be a good thing. But this is just was I've learned though having both a 55 shadow and assassin. I'd also suggest looking at the guides stickyed to the class pages, as they'd have more clear, detailed, and professional advice.

I would say the weakness in the tree is mostly its lack of survivability. DPS wise it is very viable. Both my 55 assassin and 55 shadow are tank specced, and I'm wondering if maybe you're melee specced on yours?

Because while I'm not madness/balance specced on either, your "DPS" in the tank tree is kind of a blend of the other two trees, with a significant focus being on building stacks that bolster your lightning/pebble storm.

My understanding is that the madness/balance tree is basically this, only it does WAY MORE damage, and doesn't have the survivability. But what struck me as being a bad assessment of the tree is how you seem to imply double strike is a waste.

I'm going to have to disagree, because basically the idea is double strike beefs up shock/project, which then in turn beefs up lightning/pebble storm. It's like progressive damage you're building it and peaks quite high.

I dunno, I just feel like you don't fully grasp the concept of how exactly that works and that it is indeed viable. Just because you're using double strike for procs doesn't make it the end of the world. As for resource management...I dunno, I just don't see that as an issue for shadows/assassins.