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Stop Requiring Full Groups for Easy Content


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My friends and I recently returned to the game. Not many of our old guild members are still around, but we managed to get six people together to do Astation Story Mode. We were having a blast through the first two bosses, but we were extremely frustrated to find that Master Controller was impossible without a couple more warm bodies. We tried to get two more people to join us, but no luck - had to call it.

 

TLDR: Please don't make easy content require extra people.

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You actually don't need 8 people for SM, unless they patched it. I remember watching a vid of it being 4 manned a while ago, by running back to the west side of the room and exit it and then re-enter as the color needed.

It doesn't work in HM, but does (or at least did) in SM.

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Yes, please.

 

It is very annoying, especially for those who, like I, enjoy runing operations with 4 or less people.

 

Some mechanics should take into account group size. For example on Operator IX a person should be able to choose more than one color if you have less than 8 people. On the Ancient Pylons on EV the clicker debuff should not exist if you have 3 or less people in group.

 

Also the group finder forcing 2 tanks, 2 healers, 4 damage dealers for operations is just annoying. It has reached a point where you have a group of 7 queued who can clearly clear the operationsand are sitting for hours and eventually give up because it doesn't pop!

Edited by Qvasar
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Not to burst your bubble,but these ops were created 8+ groups.Nowhere does it say that because you can 4 man it do they need to make it easier for you.If you can 4 man it,gratz on the accomplishment,but they shouldn't have to alter anything to appease ppl trying to overachieve in a 8+ man operation.
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Nowhere does it say that because you can 4 man it do they need to make it easier for you.

 

True, but...

 

When you have completed every single operation countless times in every available mode, and you are just snoozing whenever you do it you are very likely to grow bored of the game and move on. Allowing players to run the same content extremely undermanned or with weird group compositions ensures they can still enjoy the game, that the challenge is still there if they choose to pursuit it.

 

I don't want Bioware to make it "easier for me", that is the exact oposite of what I want, in fact I would prefer if they stopped nerfing content and significatly increased the difficulty in the game. I am asking for them not to introduce brick walls.

 

Operator IX requires a group of 8 (unless you have classes that can go out of combat). There is no way to avoid this, regardless of you skill and/or gear level. It's just annoying and uncreative. Same goes for the new [Heroic 4] on Section X... noone will ever have the joy of soloing it :(

Edited by Qvasar
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You need a stealth class in the group who can exit combat

 

Thanks for the tip. We didn't think of that.

 

Not to burst your bubble,but these ops were created 8+ groups.Nowhere does it say that because you can 4 man it do they need to make it easier for you.If you can 4 man it,gratz on the accomplishment,but they shouldn't have to alter anything to appease ppl trying to overachieve in a 8+ man operation.

 

Well, the point of having a Story Mode in the first place is to make the content more accessible to more players, right?

 

I mean, we tried to play the game with a more structured, "hardcore" style last year only to end up bored out of our minds farming Denova. So, we figure we'll just play casually this time around, but now the casual content requires us to have exactly eight people? You have to be organized enough to field exactly the right amount of people for each operation (or make extra people sit out), but if you're that organized, you're probably going to run through the content and end up wanting to quit before long anyway. It doesn't make sense.

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True, but...

Same goes for the new [Heroic 4] on Section X... noone will ever have the joy of soloing it :(

 

Soloing it? No, but supposedly someone 3 manned the end (I'm not certain if that's true since I can't figure out how you'd 3 man the grenade part).

Edited by AshlaBoga
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My friends and I recently returned to the game. Not many of our old guild members are still around, but we managed to get six people together to do Astation Story Mode. We were having a blast through the first two bosses, but we were extremely frustrated to find that Master Controller was impossible without a couple more warm bodies. We tried to get two more people to join us, but no luck - had to call it.

 

TLDR: Please don't make easy content require extra people.

 

If SM is to easy for your group maybe you should do HM Astation instead......

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True, but...

 

When you have completed every single operation countless times in every available mode, and you are just snoozing whenever you do it you are very likely to grow bored of the game and move on. Allowing players to run the same content extremely undermanned or with weird group compositions ensures they can still enjoy the game, that the challenge is still there if they choose to pursuit it.

 

I don't want Bioware to make it "easier for me", that is the exact oposite of what I want, in fact I would prefer if they stopped nerfing content and significatly increased the difficulty in the game. I am asking for them not to introduce brick walls.

 

Operator IX requires a group of 8 (unless you have classes that can go out of combat). There is no way to avoid this, regardless of you skill and/or gear level. It's just annoying and uncreative. Same goes for the new [Heroic 4] on Section X... noone will ever have the joy of soloing it :(

 

Why should they cater for you? Many more people have not even touched Operations. Just because you're "elite", doesn't mean everyone else should be. Maybe you should move on if you're looking for more hardcore games.

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Why should they cater for you? Many more people have not even touched Operations. Just because you're "elite", doesn't mean everyone else should be. Maybe you should move on if you're looking for more hardcore games.

 

And dilute the noble breed of Elitist bloodline? What kind of blasphemy is this?!

 

I must ask... what are you two talking about? :confused:

 

Eternity Vault and Karagga's Palace (SM) were released over one year ago and designed to be run with some or no Columi gear. They have since been nerfed.

 

Explosive Conflict (SM) was released on April 2012 and designed to be run with some or no Rakata gear. It has since been (heavily) nerfed.

 

Terror from Beyond was released September 2012 and designed to be run with some or no Rakata gear.

 

Are you telling me that people who are able to run EV/KP SM with less than 8-man are part of some elite? The most clueless and disorganized group of people in Rakata gear can do those with 7-man or less! It's hardly a challenge. If you want to classify them as elite fine... 90% of players playing for over a month are elite.

 

Also if you are level 50 and haven't joined an operation it is by your own choice. At least on The Red Eclipse there are guilds actively raiding that will recruit anyone and constant PuGs being formed on fleet general. Oh and wait... operations are in the group finder!

 

Also keep in mind one thing before you go attacking the majority of the player base calling them "elite". Dedicated players are the ones that keep this game afloat. They are the ones who beta-tested, per-ordered, subscribed, and bought cartel coins. They are also the ones who go out there and spread the word, the ones that invite their friends to play. In your opinion Bioware shouldn't cater to these people? Fine again, but don't complain when you have to find a new game also because this one will cease to exist.

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I can see both sides. However, (at least on HM TfB) I like that it requires 8 people and that it require 8 people to pay attention. So while on SM TfB I wouldn't mind them removing this "roadblock," but in HM I think it is a important mechanic to the fight and without it the fight would be too easy.
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Soloing it? No, but supposedly someone 3 manned the end (I'm not certain if that's true since I can't figure out how you'd 3 man the grenade part).

 

You 3 man until after you beat the boss and then offer to make a freeloader's day. You'll always get a fourth if all they have to do is click.

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You 3 man until after you beat the boss and then offer to make a freeloader's day.

 

You can actually 2 man everything except for the absolutely last part. The 2 pillar gate can be done with only 2 players by having the players hug the force wall before clicking (you still need to be at least 10m away from the pillar you're clicking, so both players will be hugging the central third of the force wall). When the wall comes down, one of the clickers simply moves through; the wall will be back up, but you're already on the other side of it. Repeat for the second person.

 

Supposedly, someone has 3 manned the final part of the mission, which, in every attempt I've ever made, has required 4 people. You can *reach* the side clicks and the final click simultaneously from the proper vantage point on the sides, but, as soon as you stop the side click, you're incapable of completing the final click. Unless there is simply some kind of wonky geometry screwery that lets you get past one of the clicking requirements without actually having to click, you're not going to be able to 3 man it.

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You can actually 2 man everything except for the absolutely last part. The 2 pillar gate can be done with only 2 players by having the players hug the force wall before clicking (you still need to be at least 10m away from the pillar you're clicking, so both players will be hugging the central third of the force wall). When the wall comes down, one of the clickers simply moves through; the wall will be back up, but you're already on the other side of it. Repeat for the second person.

 

Supposedly, someone has 3 manned the final part of the mission, which, in every attempt I've ever made, has required 4 people. You can *reach* the side clicks and the final click simultaneously from the proper vantage point on the sides, but, as soon as you stop the side click, you're incapable of completing the final click. Unless there is simply some kind of wonky geometry screwery that lets you get past one of the clicking requirements without actually having to click, you're not going to be able to 3 man it.

 

You can 3 man by having one of the players who is clicking on one of the sides to break his cast while at the same time clicking on the middle, similar to the force field (both have a tiny bit of delay to reactivate)

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You can 3 man by having one of the players who is clicking on one of the sides to break his cast while at the same time clicking on the middle, similar to the force field (both have a tiny bit of delay to reactivate)

 

I've tried that, but, as soon as you drop the side clicks, it breaks LoS and immediately ends and prevents the cast on the final click.

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I've tried that, but, as soon as you drop the side clicks, it breaks LoS and immediately ends and prevents the cast on the final click.

 

You just ahve to spam your right click on the middle and jump or move slightly, it takes a couple tries but its doable, ive done it many times

 

heres a video i found on youtube

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I must ask... what are you two talking about? :confused:

 

Eternity Vault and Karagga's Palace (SM) were released over one year ago and designed to be run with some or no Columi gear. They have since been nerfed.

 

Explosive Conflict (SM) was released on April 2012 and designed to be run with some or no Rakata gear. It has since been (heavily) nerfed.

 

Terror from Beyond was released September 2012 and designed to be run with some or no Rakata gear.

 

Are you telling me that people who are able to run EV/KP SM with less than 8-man are part of some elite? The most clueless and disorganized group of people in Rakata gear can do those with 7-man or less! It's hardly a challenge. If you want to classify them as elite fine... 90% of players playing for over a month are elite.

 

Also if you are level 50 and haven't joined an operation it is by your own choice. At least on The Red Eclipse there are guilds actively raiding that will recruit anyone and constant PuGs being formed on fleet general. Oh and wait... operations are in the group finder!

 

Also keep in mind one thing before you go attacking the majority of the player base calling them "elite". Dedicated players are the ones that keep this game afloat. They are the ones who beta-tested, per-ordered, subscribed, and bought cartel coins. They are also the ones who go out there and spread the word, the ones that invite their friends to play. In your opinion Bioware shouldn't cater to these people? Fine again, but don't complain when you have to find a new game also because this one will cease to exist.

 

Kamii, I loved your video of three-manning Explosive Conflict, it was great. But I hope you do not think that Bioware intends to place brick walls in front of people like you just out of spite or something.

 

The reason these Ops require a full group is because the mechanics are designed in a way that everyone should be responsible for something. People were crying, with some justification, that the likes of the Annihilator droid and Gharj in EV or Jarg and Sorno, the Foreman Crusher and Karagga himself were just boring tank and spank fights - well Bioware tried to introduce more complex mechanics which also make doing these undermanned challenge runs a bit more complicated because as I said, the design goal was to give more responsibility to everyone in an 8-man raid.

 

Bioware should really not be expected to take these kinds of challenge runs into account when designing content in the first place. Though I admit, the ideas you posted a little above the quoted post looked sensible to me. Those kind of changes wouldn't hurt anyone.

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Kamii, I loved your video of three-manning Explosive Conflict, it was great. But I hope you do not think that Bioware intends to place brick walls in front of people like you just out of spite or something.

 

No not at all. I don't think they are purposefully trying to "annoy" anyone. I also agree that everyone on the raid should have some sort of responsability on each boss fight and even trash.

 

What I would like is having possibility of someone taking up more than his responsability. It would make the fights more dynamic and be an incentive to finding new and creative ways of beating the bosses, even with a full group. Just have more than one way of defeating bosses, especially when the "regular" way actually forces 8 people. For example, instead of forcing people to destroy the cores on Operator IX have something like "Damage dealt by Operator IX on 2nd stage increased by 20% per core.". There are so many (fun) ways this could be done!

 

And seriously, this isn't about catering to some elite. It's about making the game more enjoyable to everyone.

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You're asking for the wrong thing. You don't actually want/need the 8 man operations to have mechanics that are clearable with 4 or less players. What you actually want/need is more content designed for 4 or less players. Basically new tier 2 flashpoints and introduce tier 3 flashpoints.
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