Comparatively in pve no.

They have the "melee" branch and "range dot" branch, but both are technically melee, thus you will get more from melee/concealment in the end dps wise. So now you have to compare your dps to melee dps classes like dps juggernauts or marauders. No comparison to any ranged dps class. Your sustained damage is going to be much lower, your action regen isn't meant for sustained dps, your best special is stealth based, useless, and your second best special, best sustained damage special requires the mobs back, so if you are fighting mobs forgetaboutit, against a tanked boss it's a bit better, still no where near as effective efficient as the other melee classes. Oh and much less survivability.

PvP. You can make it work, but it still has the same relative short comings, easier to work around with the way pvp mechanics work though. I could speculate on how effective they will be in rated warzones, but we really won't know until they come out. My guess would be, not too effective, much more focus fire, and efficient healing.

If you're the only agent in group (which is very common as agents are the least played class), you provide the biggest dps increase with your crit buff.

But your ops group benefits in every way possible if they replace the operative with a sniper.

operatives still have high dmg, i need a guard for the tank not to lose aggro, even while using the threat reduction ability constantly. This makes up for the no-gap closer.

All in all for dps we are very competetive, do not listen to ppl who clearly dont play the class. I could say our dmg (melee dpsers) is of the highest atm for the reason above. Remember to use all ur tools.

operatives still have high dmg, i need a guard for the tank not to lose aggro, even while using the threat reduction ability constantly. This makes up for the no-gap closer.

 

All in all for dps we are very competetive, do not listen to ppl who clearly dont play the class. I could say our dmg (melee dpsers) is of the highest atm for the reason above. Remember to use all ur tools.

Every operative cheerleader uses the L2P argument as though its acceptable that stealth doesn't work as a gap closer, the DPS specs are both positionally dependent, and OP sustained DPS is the lowest in the game. We have completely cut OPs from our raid. We have one of the best OP healers I have ever seen and even that spec isn't good enough because Mercs provide DR and Sorcs have shields and AoE.

For DPS, our one IA spot is covered by a Sniper. OP DPS? I immediatly improve my DPS by cutting the best OP in the world and replacing them with a Mara, Merc or Sorc

Indeed, Operative DPS is subpar in PvE. Ive been in Ops in many characters, and I only play DPS. Of the 6 chars I have, oper, assassin, commando, gunslinger, sentinel and sage, Operative is clearly the weakest one in endgame PvE.

And yes, those 6 chars are lvl 50.

Every operative cheerleader uses the L2P argument as though its acceptable that stealth doesn't work as a gap closer, the DPS specs are both positionally dependent, and OP sustained DPS is the lowest in the game. We have completely cut OPs from our raid. We have one of the best OP healers I have ever seen and even that spec isn't good enough because Mercs provide DR and Sorcs have shields and AoE.

 

For DPS, our one IA spot is covered by a Sniper. OP DPS? I immediatly improve my DPS by cutting the best OP in the world and replacing them with a Mara, Merc or Sorc

OP DPS is fine, and yes the sustained dps of an op is positional based. If that's too hard for most ppl to accomplish then i'm happy you removed those operatives from your operation raid, because it's so hard to position urself in a pve encounter. lol

You can fill your raid with mercs or sorcs if you like, but as dps goes they dont provide more damage than an operative. You might only stand at a 4k dmg from a merc missile but operative easily makes those numbers as well.

If you're the only agent in group (which is very common as agents are the least played class), you provide the biggest dps increase with your crit buff.

Once Legacy is out, this won't be true. All the Agent re-rolls who got to 50 before re-rolling will be able to provide the 5% crit buff. This will be true of my Mercenary as well. I'm looking forward to going into flash points with all of my Sith brethren and still giving the entire group the 5% crit buff.

Oh, no idea how good/bad Op DPS is. I only healed on my Operative, so I haven't got a clue.

short answer

no

long answer

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

short answer

no

long answer

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Once Legacy is out, this won't be true. All the Agent re-rolls who got to 50 before re-rolling will be able to provide the 5% crit buff. This will be true of my Mercenary as well. I'm looking forward to going into flash points with all of my Sith brethren and still giving the entire group the 5% crit buff.

 

Oh, no idea how good/bad Op DPS is. I only healed on my Operative, so I haven't got a clue.

Only problem is they said legacy unlocks will not affect anything but situations with ur companions. Additionally unlocked abilities will be on heavy cooldowns.

Only problem is they said legacy unlocks will not affect anything but situations with ur companions. Additionally unlocked abilities will be on heavy cooldowns.

They clearly said that you would be able to provide those buffs in pvp warzones and operations. IA/Smugglers will be really unwanted post 1.2 if they remain gimped.

They clearly said that you would be able to provide those buffs in pvp warzones and operations. IA/Smugglers will be really unwanted post 1.2 if they remain gimped.

They said you would be able to provide a buff from another class to your other character. But they did not say if this buff is able to be shared to your group, or if you can have 2 buffs at the same time..

Once Legacy is out, this won't be true. All the Agent re-rolls who got to 50 before re-rolling will be able to provide the 5% crit buff. This will be true of my Mercenary as well. I'm looking forward to going into flash points with all of my Sith brethren and still giving the entire group the 5% crit buff.

 

Oh, no idea how good/bad Op DPS is. I only healed on my Operative, so I haven't got a clue.

Unfortunately for you the Legacy granted skills are only available when using your 20min CD buff that requires an active companion.

Unfortunately for you the Legacy granted skills are only available when using your 20min CD buff that requires an active companion.

The abilities linked to the 20 min CD companion only buff are the "signature" abilities you get for finishing chapter 3 of the class story lines for that class. They clearly stated the buffs would be gained by all classes once you complete chapter 2 of the story quests. Once you have an operative/smuggler past chapter 2, every other toon on that server should have the crit portion as part of their "buff", at least thats my understanding.

The signature moves and the buffs are obviously 2 different things, since they mention different chapters of the story quests to gain, not the same.

Complete Chapter 2 and unlock class emote and apply that to your buffs.

^ this says it applies the class emote to you buff... and that's it.

http://www.darthhater.com/articles/swtor-news/19973-guild-summit-stream-live-blog/page-5

If someone can link me to a more complete article where it says you get the buffs, I'd appriciate it. but just from this I don't see where it says you get the other classes buffs.

Q: Alt: those buffs from other classes, are those self only or apply to all group members? Does that mean we don’t need to bring a specific class for ops/warzones? A; yes.

From here.

The way this question was written down is kinda iffy. But since the first part of the question was an "or" question and the second part was a "yes/no", I took this answer to mean that we won't need to bring a specific class along to get their buff, but I could be wrong.

what Operative/Scrapper need for dps is a stacking debuff. impossible to use in PVP or trash situation where they are aleady good. but good on bosses fight that takes 5m.

Something like -1% armor duration 15 second stacking up to 20 times.

I'm gonna laugh if operatives somehow come out as one of the best dps classes when damage meters are put in. Seriously, just play the class you enjoy. If you aren't in a hardcore progression raiding guild that is going for world firsts, then it shouldn't even be a concern.

I thought Bioware were just going to add some form of combat kill log, and not WoW style dmg meters? Meters are overrated anyway, the goal is taking in a group good enough to achieve a group goal, e.g. kill hardmode boss in ops group.

I'm gonna laugh if operatives somehow come out as one of the best dps classes when damage meters are put in. Seriously, just play the class you enjoy. If you aren't in a hardcore progression raiding guild that is going for world firsts, then it shouldn't even be a concern.

Operatives are far too limited by large cooldowns and energy starvation for this to even by plausible.

We can dream though.

what Operative/Scrapper need for dps is a stacking debuff. impossible to use in PVP or trash situation where they are aleady good. but good on bosses fight that takes 5m.

The answer is obvious: change Acid Blade from an armor penetration buff on us, to an armor rating debuff on our target. We've suggested this in quite a few threads already.

In 1-on-1 fights (PvP or strong/elites in PvE), there's no practical difference other than the fact that a PvP opponent can use his debuff remover (if any) to get rid of it.

In 1-on-many fights (trash PvE) it'd be worse than the current setup, since the buff currently carries over to your next target (as it's a buff on you). So yes, we'd be worse here, but honestly, this is something we don't have a problem with.

But in those many-on-1 fights in endgame Operations and Flashpoints, it'd make a HUGE difference. Raids would instantly want a Conceal Op, just for his ability to debuff the armor of the boss to help the other dozen DPSers' attacks. And it'd be a "sustainable" DPS boost, which is something we sorely lack.

Maybe, for balance reasons, change it from a -30% armor debuff for 15s into a smaller, longer-lasting one (say, -10% for 30s) that stacks with itself up to 5 times. That way, two Conceal Ops won't conflict with each other so much, and even a single Conceal would have a reason to use Acid Blade more than once per 15s.

Now, obviously that helps Conceals and not Lethalities. The main thing Lethality needs to be a good raid DPSer is a way to generate TAs at range. For this, I've previously suggested altering the Counterstrike talent (Lethality 5) to also give a point of TA 50/100% of the time when you use Countermeasures. That gives you a 45s-cooldown ability to instantly generate a TA regardless of range (and it even works out of combat) once you're level 30+; besides just being good that way, it's tied to an ability that you'll be using constantly in raids anyway, and it'd make Countermeasures useful in PvP as well. I'd also suggested changing the Vanish talent (Lethality 4) to reduce the cooldown of Countermeasures by 7.5/15s like it does the other clickies, which'd reduce it to a 30s cooldown. One free TA per 30s won't completely remove the TA problem, but it'd go a LONG way towards making the Lethality spec viable when combined with other TA generators.