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Annihilation and Ravage


Murmurrr

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Everyone knows that Ravage feels slow and is hard to fit in anywhere, but since the first two hits occur quickly and the final blow from the 3 second channel comes at the very end, why not always chain a ravage into an annihilate?

 

The startup animation for annihilate (I haven't actually done any timing of this) seems to be very long, and you can skip that startup time by casting annihilate out of ravage. If you start to cast ravage and then mash annihilate, you will get the first two hits of ravage off and then immediately annihilate. Would the damage gained from the two hits of a free and otherwise not used ability (ravage) be worth the extra time spent before annihilating?

 

Also if you do it and watch your GCD it seems like you cast annihilate when your GCD sweep is only ~4/5 complete or something...

 

I know it is kind of counter-intuitive to sacrifice the last hit of ravage, but is the damage from the last hit worth the extra time it takes to channel after the first two hits plus the time it takes for the annihilation startup animation?

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I almost always clip my Ravage ASAP to cast annihilate when possible, especially in pvp. It's been proven that letting the 3rd hit of Ravage go off is usually a dps loss due to the ~2 seconds it takes to go off, while the first 2 hits happen within the first second.

 

Imo, use ravage like it was a GCD ability basically, but one that you have to stand still for, and always interrupt it as soon as possible. I find this very helpful in PvP as well as PvE. Try the following combo in PvP:

 

Force Charge (Deadly Sabers while charging in, it's off GCD), Battering Assault, Rupture, Ravage, Annihilate.

 

Interrupt Ravage with Annihilate as soon as the GCD will let you, ie, spam Annihilate while channeling ravage. You will always get the first 2 hits off and afterwards, your ravage will hit. The effect of this is that you get both bleeds going while you use your hardest hitting abilities over a 6-8 second burst.

 

If you want to really go nuts, build up 30 fury, pop Bloodthirst, Frenzy, and do the combo with both Bloodthirst and Berserk running to boost your dmg/make all bleeds crit and heal you + party.

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You're right. Ravage is slow and clunky, and after those first 2 hits, the 3rd is negligible. Honestly, in a 1v1 situation I find no time for Ravage, and there are far better ways to spend your rage.

 

Ravage is awesome when someone else is actively cc'ing a target (choke, knockdown, stun) but otherwise it's pretty lackluster. Even as Carnage which is supposed to root them (so I hear, I never take that talent when I go Carnage), someone just needs to interrupt you to shut it down.

 

Even in PvE, depending on a mob's HP and where my CDs are at, I will interrupt Ravage after 2 ticks.

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I almost always clip my Ravage ASAP to cast annihilate when possible, especially in pvp. It's been proven that letting the 3rd hit of Ravage go off is usually a dps loss due to the ~2 seconds it takes to go off, while the first 2 hits happen within the first second.

 

Imo, use ravage like it was a GCD ability basically, but one that you have to stand still for, and always interrupt it as soon as possible. I find this very helpful in PvP as well as PvE. Try the following combo in PvP:

 

Force Charge (Deadly Sabers while charging in, it's off GCD), Battering Assault, Rupture, Ravage, Annihilate.

 

Interrupt Ravage with Annihilate as soon as the GCD will let you, ie, spam Annihilate while channeling ravage. You will always get the first 2 hits off and afterwards, your ravage will hit. The effect of this is that you get both bleeds going while you use your hardest hitting abilities over a 6-8 second burst.

 

If you want to really go nuts, build up 30 fury, pop Bloodthirst, Frenzy, and do the combo with both Bloodthirst and Berserk running to boost your dmg/make all bleeds crit and heal you + party.

 

Yeah I have been always cancelling my ravage into annihilates in pvp and pve when i found out about this, but I noticed in kiba's guide he didn't mention it.

 

I mainly want to see if people know about this and to discuss the pros/cons of using 2 hits of ravage into annihilate VS not using ravage at all.

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You're right. Ravage is slow and clunky, and after those first 2 hits, the 3rd is negligible. Honestly, in a 1v1 situation I find no time for Ravage, and there are far better ways to spend your rage.

 

Ravage is awesome when someone else is actively cc'ing a target (choke, knockdown, stun) but otherwise it's pretty lackluster. Even as Carnage which is supposed to root them (so I hear, I never take that talent when I go Carnage), someone just needs to interrupt you to shut it down.

 

Even in PvE, depending on a mob's HP and where my CDs are at, I will interrupt Ravage after 2 ticks.

 

Ravage costs no rage to use :\

 

Because it's a channeled ability it autofaces.

 

The last hit (should you choose to let it go off) has some range to it and hits like a truck.

 

Ravage certainly has it's uses in PVP.

Edited by Foxcolt
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Ravage costs no rage to use :\

 

Because it's a channeled ability it autofaces.

 

The last hit (should you choose to let it go off) has some range to it and hits like a truck.

 

Ravage certainly has it's uses in PVP.

 

My bad, I meant better things to attack with? Lol.

 

I did notice that Ravage has a little bit of "lag time" as in, if someone is running away, there's a good chance I am going to hit someone with at least 1 swing.

 

If Annihilation is up though, for sure I'm gonna be hammering that button over letting Ravage finish.

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Hmm, as annihilate spec I find Ravage usabLe in pvp only when I dont have the rage to use any skill, everything on cd and i need to finish some enemy "fast".

 

Ravage - doesnt build Fury ( i could b wrong)

Ravage - Dont get you RAGE points

 

Ravage is a DPS loss in the long run, tho it is good in some key moments. (annihilate spec)

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Hmm, as annihilate spec I find Ravage usabLe in pvp only when I dont have the rage to use any skill, everything on cd and i need to finish some enemy "fast".

 

Ravage - doesnt build Fury ( i could b wrong)

Ravage - Dont get you RAGE points

 

Ravage is a DPS loss in the long run, tho it is good in some key moments. (annihilate spec)

 

You get something like over 1000 damage in by only sacrificing maybe half of a GCD though?

 

If the animation for annihilate takes X seconds to perform, you spend 1.5 seconds on the GCD for ravage but save X seconds by not having to perform the annihilate animation, thus getting the first two hits of ravage damage in trade for 1.5-X seconds of time.

 

Now if only we knew what X was, we could calculate the DPS for the first two hits of ravage... Assuming my logic is correct.

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If you're high on rage and have everything on cooldown with a recently proc'd rupture(6s ICD) then you're good to use ravage for it's full duration. Otherwise just use the first 2 ticks. It's a very limited window when Ravage is worth using fully.

 

In most situations I just skip it because it STILL bugs out a lot and that's a massive DPS loss.

Edited by Tumri
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Uses I have found for it

-PvP players about dead and running away. As that last hit does have some leeway on range.

-PvE targets that need to die faster than my dots last. (Mind Traps for example)

-PvP players who may end up thinking I'm a different spec and change their tactics(in my favor). Generally this is followed by clipping the attack unless I know my charge is up.

 

As far as general rotation goes the only time it is useful is when everything else is on cooldown, your rage is full and you're Rupture proc is on it's internal cooldown. Which is generally a very small window. And almost worth it to ignore it for an Assault+VS, as that generates fury and doesn't interrupt your normal "rotation".

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I use ravage to finish off low health enemies when deadly throw is on CD and I don't want to waste rage. Other than that, there is almost always something better. If you are burning/generating rage as fast as possible then you will need the full time from anni coming available to the time the buff expires to hit it since much of the time you will need to generate 1 or 2 rage first to afford it.

 

I like to think of my goal, playing anni spec, is to get as many ruptures in as I can while keeping DS and Anni on cd, weaving in berserk as appropriate. If you're casting ravage that means that you weren't casting something that could reset rupture or build the rage needed to continue the rotation.......

 

IMHO, ravage is one of our lowest priority abilities that should only be used in extremely limited situations.

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Seriously, *** are you guys talking about?

My ravage hits for a total of 7-8k (crit) for NO RAGE COST !!!!

 

First hit 1,5k, second hit 2,5k and last hit 3,5k (all crit btw, but when I use ravage I have my crit relic up)

Or 1st hit 1k, 2nd 1.5k and 3rd 2k = 4,5k in 3 seconds (still not bad if none of them crits)

 

If you use an ability before the last hit, that's a huge dps loss imo.

Edited by WokeSmeed
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Murmurr, no one is answering your question. If this is as frustrating for you as it is for me, I'm sorry.

 

HE IS NOT ASKING ABOUT THE USEFULNESS OF RAVAGE IN ROTATION AS A LONE SKILL - HE IS ASKING ABOUT IT IN TERMS OF ANNIHILATE AND GCD/ANIMATION REDUCTION.

 

Read the whole post before responding please. I would like to know people's thoughts on this as well.

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Murmurr, no one is answering your question. If this is as frustrating for you as it is for me, I'm sorry.

 

HE IS NOT ASKING ABOUT THE USEFULNESS OF RAVAGE IN ROTATION AS A LONE SKILL - HE IS ASKING ABOUT IT IN TERMS OF ANNIHILATE AND GCD/ANIMATION REDUCTION.

 

Read the whole post before responding please. I would like to know people's thoughts on this as well.

 

Yes. That seems to be the case.

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regardless of animation is still a **** skill to use for all 3 hits. they should make them all 3 spread out or take the last one out completely.

 

Thank you for sharing your opinion on what the developers should do to modify the skill. Now let us discuss the current functionality of the skill, in which two swings occur rapidly and then a long delay occurs before the final swing.

 

It is my theory that it is never useful as an annihilation marauder to fully cast 3 seconds of ravage, but it is extremely useful to cast 1.5 seconds of ravage and to then cancel it with annihilate.

 

I created this thread for the purpose of discussing my opinion with the community and to see what other people thought about the usefulness of cancelling ravage into annihilate; opinions (ideally backed up with data) that counter the concept of casting 1.5 seconds of ravage before using annihilate are extremely welcome, as I currently cannot see any reason to NOT cancel my ravage into annihilate every time.

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Ravage clipping is what every good Annihilation Marauder should do (can't speak for Carnage, but clipping Ravage with Smash in Rage would seem like a good idea, provided your target it stationary).

 

Though I have to say that since the last patch, it seems the GCD is a lot slower since before. Earlier the GCD started when you hit the button, but now it seems to wait until 0,5 sec into the channel. Dunno about the rest of you, but my burst from clipping Ravage with Annihilate seems to have become a lot slower since 1.1.5.

Edited by Evixy
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My bad, I meant better things to attack with? Lol.

 

I did notice that Ravage has a little bit of "lag time" as in, if someone is running away, there's a good chance I am going to hit someone with at least 1 swing.

 

If Annihilation is up though, for sure I'm gonna be hammering that button over letting Ravage finish.

Here's an idea... Let ravage finish, laugh when the last hit crits 3k, THEN annihilate him for 4k, and laugh when DS crits for 1.3k.

 

You'd be surprised how often I get off a full ravage channel in pvp, even in 1v1. Sometimes dot dot ravage can be better than dot dot chokes! :p

Edited by CaptainBarbosa
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Seriously, *** are you guys talking about?

My ravage hits for a total of 7-8k (crit) for NO RAGE COST !!!!

 

First hit 1,5k, second hit 2,5k and last hit 3,5k (all crit btw, but when I use ravage I have my crit relic up)

Or 1st hit 1k, 2nd 1.5k and 3rd 2k = 4,5k in 3 seconds (still not bad if none of them crits)

 

If you use an ability before the last hit, that's a huge dps loss imo.

 

Just tested this cuz I wasn't sure about it and I was correct. The first and second hit are merged. So when you see 1.5k first then 2.5k, its actually 1.5k+1k. If what you are saying would be true, then Ravage would hit for 4k in 1 GCD (provided both hits crit), which is just absurd considering its a free skill. If you see 2 numbers appear on your screen, then both hits crit.

Edited by Evixy
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Thank you for sharing your opinion on what the developers should do to modify the skill. Now let us discuss the current functionality of the skill, in which two swings occur rapidly and then a long delay occurs before the final swing.

 

It is my theory that it is never useful as an annihilation marauder to fully cast 3 seconds of ravage, but it is extremely useful to cast 1.5 seconds of ravage and to then cancel it with annihilate.

 

I created this thread for the purpose of discussing my opinion with the community and to see what other people thought about the usefulness of cancelling ravage into annihilate; opinions (ideally backed up with data) that counter the concept of casting 1.5 seconds of ravage before using annihilate are extremely welcome, as I currently cannot see any reason to NOT cancel my ravage into annihilate every time.

 

We should be friends. But you have more patience than I do. And I'm a teacher.

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