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Time for a PvP Fix


fungihoujo

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Err many of your suggestion don't make sense. That DoTs (all dots, not just sorc's) don't stop caps is a gameplay decision, not a balance one. They will break stealth if not cleanse first tough.

 

But mostly, they want to avoid a sorc dotting people just for the sake of it, and paralizing a team. Because thats a hit too easy.

 

Affliction becoming the current CT as well. The two sec root on a spam CD? Seriously?

 

Same for the self heals. You are suggesting a bit total of 4% heal on tick crits.

 

Do the math, it means on single target, a potential of 12% for all 3 DoTs if star align, even more for assassin who shares your tree and can have a 100% uptime on Crushing Darkness, so lets suppose a 35% crit rate, thats roughly 10% on 6 seconds as well. Now if you also tab affliction....

 

Class needs some loving, sure. But if what you want is a FoTM fix, you just move the problem elsewhere. Annihilation marauders used to have 2% on bleed crit. That made a LOT of self-heals and got nerfed, I suppose to make up for the 1vs1 unmatched ability of it. You are suggesting taking madness way beyond that. As it currently roughly has the pre-nerf annihilation self-heal, with an easier application of them.

 

When DoT's became a major part of the damage we do, it does become a balance issue. I get a long single target mez in the madness tree, or have the games dumbest long term cast time on a single target mez. Both of which will break within 3 seconds of application, because all three specs use Affliction.

 

I thought I put it in there, but maybe I didn't explicitly state it. Affliction needs to be on a 15 second CD with that change.

 

The self healing on DoT's WAS excessive on maras. Sorcs already have a self instant heal, plus can't pair the self heals with any defensive CD's. Right now the parasitism and devour combo isn't even noticable.

 

Kind of hard to have 100% uptime on crushing darkness too. Was kind of my first clue that you don't play sorc.

 

The only big balance change in madness really would be shock, a six second CD, being able to do 5k ish damage when Crushing darkness is up, I wasn't sure if 25% each would be too much and only 20% each would be better.

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When DoT's became a major part of the damage we do, it does become a balance issue. I get a long single target mez in the madness tree, or have the games dumbest long term cast time on a single target mez. Both of which will break within 3 seconds of application, because all three specs use Affliction.

 

I thought I put it in there, but maybe I didn't explicitly state it. Affliction needs to be on a 15 second CD with that change.

 

The self healing on DoT's WAS excessive on maras. Sorcs already have a self instant heal, plus can't pair the self heals with any defensive CD's. Right now the parasitism and devour combo isn't even noticable.

 

Kind of hard to have 100% uptime on crushing darkness too. Was kind of my first clue that you don't play sorc.

 

The only big balance change in madness really would be shock, a six second CD, being able to do 5k ish damage when Crushing darkness is up, I wasn't sure if 25% each would be too much and only 20% each would be better.

 

1st- you have 40% of your damage from FL. Use that to stop caps. It means you actually have to pay attention to your node you are defending. Again, gameplay.

 

2nd - you obviously have a reading issue, since I clearly state the issue will come for ASSASSINS who share your tree (parasitism and devour) and HAVE a 100% uptime on CD with Raze, the Wrath equivalent in the tree.

 

3rd - self heals on marauder : you obviously never parsed one. Marauder had a self-heal burst on berserk, but otherwise were actually at current madness level, just slightly above 1% hps.

 

4th affliction and lightning charge's discharge (ON THE ASSASSIN. Caps to help you notice) fill the same role of multi dottting. While creeping terror is not exactly worthy of being a 31 pts ability right now, there is a limit to making it a baseline one. Also, multi dotting has always been a way of helping with procs.

 

5th - mez ALL break on damage. Lethality sniper ALSO use dots with his, all marauder spec uses rupture. CC can be used in fight, but mostly they are to be used to lock put someone from fight, not a 2nd stun.

 

Ex : a reinforcement, a healer while your team is killing the tank guarding it.

 

Also don't forget its a in-fight 60 sec cc in pve. In that regard, its the only one in the game that can see its 1,5 cast removed.

 

And shock doing 5k when CD is up? Yes plz, my hybrid wants the 3k dps!!!

 

Currently its not rare that I hit with 4k on a crit and chain shock proc with it.

 

So you see, not only do I play sorc but I also have experience with most class, something I'm not sure you do other than from a "fighting them" point of view.

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For me its really unclear what role semi-mobile ranged DPS should play in any currently existing Warzone that isn't Huttball.

A lot of the proposed buffs/fixes around this forum or the PVP one sound very nice, but as long as Biowares idea for the Sorcs role in a Warzone isnt clear, we cant really say what is an appropriate Buff and what isnt.

 

Are we supposed to guard the Off-Node, using stuns and our kiting to delay a cap while help is on the way?

Joining in the big fight around the contested objective, supporting the melee train?

Delay reinforcements going for the node currently being ninja'd by your team?

 

IMO currently there are better classes for everything a DPS Sorc (or Merc) can do in an objective based WZ.

The only thing where we are really shine is in Bubble Spec, which is also pretty silly gameplay wise.

 

So Bioware, what role do you intend DPS Sorcs and Mercs to have?

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People want to see sorcs buffed alot because marauder is their base line, and can you blame them, when marauders have been roflstomping wzs for months on end now, and sorcs have had successive (unwarranted) nerfs? Did you see that thread about the person monitoring the big hitting moves in wzs, knights/warriors had 4 of the top 8, and unsurprisingly, sorcs didn't have any and even mercs get in there. And not only that 88.5% were smash/sweep.

 

You will get no argument from me that the derp-smash spec needs a nerf. However, I think you miss the point.

 

The problem with that spec isn't that smash is capable of 6k crits. It is that getting them is far too easy. They need to adjust the procs and cooldowns that guarantee the massive crits on low cooldown.

 

There is no problem with making certain classes have a hard-hitting ability they have to work for while others are more about sustained damage. We are never going to have 6k-plus auto crits on 5 people. If that is what you want, you might as well roll derp-smash spec now. The problem is the sustained damage we are supposed to get just isn't up to standard. It needs a slight buff to bring us up to the damage output potential of some of the other DPS classes. Separately, derp-smash needs a nerf to make it more than a faceroll spec.

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You will get no argument from me that the derp-smash spec needs a nerf. However, I think you miss the point.

 

The problem with that spec isn't that smash is capable of 6k crits. It is that getting them is far too easy. They need to adjust the procs and cooldowns that guarantee the massive crits on low cooldown.

 

Getting them far too easy is just part of the problem, the others being that it's an AOE, virtually unavoidable, a force attack that never misses, and hits harder than any single target move in the game, coupled with the fact that it's on a class that happens to have 3 other big hitting moves, and in the case of marauder, stupidly good defensive cooldowns (and Juggs aren't exactly easy to kill when theirs are up too). The last being they stack power/surge and forgo any crit rating at all and still do well, because of this auto-crit mechanic.

 

There is no problem with making certain classes have a hard-hitting ability they have to work for while others are more about sustained damage. We are never going to have 6k-plus auto crits on 5 people. If that is what you want, you might as well roll derp-smash spec now. The problem is the sustained damage we are supposed to get just isn't up to standard. It needs a slight buff to bring us up to the damage output potential of some of the other DPS classes. Separately, derp-smash needs a nerf to make it more than a faceroll spec.

 

Well, no I don't want to roll a derp-smash, but I only want the 6k death field auto-crits if smash is here to stay in its current form. It wasn't that long ago they deemed Chain-Lightnin wrath procs too good, but here we sorcs are eating 7k smashes with alarming regularity. How come? So on the proviso smash is here to stay, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for 6k death field auto-crits. What's good for the goose and all that.

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It's also worth noting that the level cap is about to be increased, so balance is going to also change significantly.

 

Ya, we can get creeping terror and electric bindings, it'll be epic.

 

We should get a huge boost over other classes, like, what are juggs going to get? Nothing.

 

Oh, except for force crush and CC immunity after every leap in the same spec.

 

Yup- full smash spec will also come with CC immunity on demand.

 

Balance isn't going to change significantly- I'd put a million credits on after the expansion, class balance being the exact same as it is now- if not worse.

 

Mara/Jugg>Sniper/Sin/PT>Merc/Sorc/Op

 

The only difference is- juggs may actually overtake marauders after 9 months of mara being unparalleled godmode class.

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Ya, we can get creeping terror and electric bindings, it'll be epic.

 

We should get a huge boost over other classes, like, what are juggs going to get? Nothing.

 

Oh, except for force crush and CC immunity after every leap in the same spec.

 

Yup- full smash spec will also come with CC immunity on demand.

 

Balance isn't going to change significantly- I'd put a million credits on after the expansion, class balance being the exact same as it is now- if not worse.

 

Mara/Jugg>Sniper/Sin/PT>Merc/Sorc/Op

 

The only difference is- juggs may actually overtake marauders after 9 months of mara being unparalleled godmode class.

 

Your continued Debbie Downerism is noted. You assume they are going to make no changes to the trees when they increase level cap. I assume they are going to make lots of tweaks when they increase level cap. I assume this because the devs have said they are making significant balance changes. We could end up better or worse. At this point, we don't know what they are planning. But keep assuming the worst and crapping all over Sorcs at every opportunity. It's what you do best.

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if they changed how we deal our damage, and actually gave us another defensive ability or two, or even removed them from the likes of Marauder, i'd be more than happy.

 

Right now I find myself standing on one spot spamming the hell out of lightning until I get noticed, killed then repeat.

 

I love the class to bits, and for some reason I keep continually being drawn back to Sorc, but there's no denying they are in need of some help.

 

I think we need a default attack to be honest, I don't think there's anyone who uses sabre strike as a sorc, or atleast shouldn't so it means we're constantly using force (even if we do regain it through madness lightning). Force lightning should become default attack and then give us another ability or something.

Edited by Jayshames
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Your continued Debbie Downerism is noted. You assume they are going to make no changes to the trees when they increase level cap. I assume they are going to make lots of tweaks when they increase level cap. I assume this because the devs have said they are making significant balance changes. We could end up better or worse. At this point, we don't know what they are planning. But keep assuming the worst and crapping all over Sorcs at every opportunity. It's what you do best.

 

Well, it's not like patches 1.2 through 1.6 haven't set a precedence.

 

But your point is taken, we may end up near the top of the pile, if not at the top, after the re-balancing. Would I bet anything on it? Not a chance.

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Well, it's not like patches 1.2 through 1.6 haven't set a precedence.

 

But your point is taken, we may end up near the top of the pile, if not at the top, after the re-balancing. Would I bet anything on it? Not a chance.

 

I don't know where we are going to end up. I expect they will nerf bubble stun, making it apply only to the sorc and not any other team members who are bubbled. But I also expect something to be done to mitigate the AOE from Smash. What I really don't know is what other changes they might make in the trees as they change level cap. Are they going to add skills? Change skills? Remove skills? I just don't know, and no one really does.

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This will never happen. classes with a healing spec are not supposed to have an execution ability.

 

If anyone has played WoW like I have, Shadow Word: Death. And seeing as how DPS sorcs are nearly identical as to how shadow priests in WoW are/used to be it would make sense.

Edited by Deimosmp
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This will never happen. classes with a healing spec are not supposed to have an execution ability.

 

Therein lays the problem. The most squishes of classes not allowed having one huge attack solely because they can heal? Please, that’s ridiculous. I’ve never played in an MMO where that was the case. What BW has done to the Inquisitor/Consular classes is egregious in that regard. Thundering Blast should have the highest hitting damage capacity in the game based on the weakness of the Sorcerer AC. But, we cannot have that, LOLSmashers Inc., will have a conniption fit, and wet themselves QQing all over the boards because their Smash/Sweeps cannot do the same damage. Don't want to upset their delicate mental balance...you know how vain they are. ;)

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Therein lays the problem. The most squishes of classes not allowed having one huge attack solely because they can heal? Please, that’s ridiculous. I’ve never played in an MMO where that was the case. What BW has done to the Inquisitor/Consular classes is egregious in that regard. Thundering Blast should have the highest hitting damage capacity in the game based on the weakness of the Sorcerer AC. But, we cannot have that, LOLSmashers Inc., will have a conniption fit, and wet themselves QQing all over the boards because their Smash/Sweeps cannot do the same damage. Don't want to upset their delicate mental balance...you know how vain they are. ;)

 

^^^This guy gets it!

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Honestly, I don't mind the idea of a different approach to DPS between classes. Some ACs can be more about burst while others are more about sustained damage. Our filler abilities aren't as weak as some other classes, but we don't have abilities that hit as hard as their hardest hitting ones. Fine. But you still need to balance these concepts. Our DPS is slightly behind in PvE because our sustained DPS is just a bit too low. PvP is another matter. Burst is more important. I think the best answer may just be to decrease how often the burst classes get to take advantage of their best abilities. This would lower their DPS to our level in PvE and negate some of the PvP advantage they get.

 

I don't see that happening because it would infuriate too many people. So in lieu of that, I'd accept a slight damage buff that would close the PvE gap along with some sort of tool for PvP survivability.

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If anyone has played WoW like I have, Shadow Word: Death. And seeing as how DPS sorcs are nearly identical as to how shadow priests in WoW are/used to be it would make sense.

 

YOU FOOL

 

only the higher burst classes jugg, mara, sniper, assasin get an execute.. that 7k smash needs to be followed bya 5k execute

 

BW is so fking dumb sometimes im surprised they havnt handed powertechs an execute

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YOU FOOL

 

only the higher burst classes jugg, mara, sniper, assasin get an execute.. that 7k smash needs to be followed bya 5k execute

 

BW is so fking dumb sometimes im surprised they havnt handed powertechs an execute

 

Against a sorc, most of a PT's abilities can be counted as an execute.

3-4k detonators, 4.5-6k railshots, etc..

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Your continued Debbie Downerism is noted. You assume they are going to make no changes to the trees when they increase level cap. I assume they are going to make lots of tweaks when they increase level cap. I assume this because the devs have said they are making significant balance changes. We could end up better or worse. At this point, we don't know what they are planning. But keep assuming the worst and crapping all over Sorcs at every opportunity. It's what you do best.

 

Keep being blindly optimistic about a company that has been chain nerfing us for what is getting closer and closer to an entire year, and insulting anyone who doesn't share that optimism that has absolutely no precedence to it.

 

If bringing up all the failings of our class and all the imbalances compared to other classes- something I've supported many times with facts about what they did- numbers comparisons- patch notes- ability comparisons- other mmo comparisons, etc...... is what you call 'crapping on the class', then perhaps you should turn your anger at BW who is actually the ones doing it, I am merely reporting on what they have done, and pointing out where their previous behaviour is most likely to bring them with the xpac.

 

There is always a chance they will figure it out and do something about the imbalances that they themselves not only made back in April, but continued to widen with each patch since- but the thing about chance is, most people see 90% as a better chance than 10%.

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We can only pray that when they redo the skills for the new 55 level cap, they sort some of this out.

 

We are meant to be glass canons, fine I get that but we're glass canons with no balls....canon balls I mean.

 

:D

 

That said, I've had top damage in the last 3 warzones I've been in, and yes that was pre 50 pvp, but even with there being level 47 warrior (my toon is level 25) smashing all over the place. You need to be really, really fast to survive as a sorc/sage. If you don't have your abilities keymapped properly for instant use you are doomed.

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