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awesome job bioware for caving to the l33t stun loving pvpers


astrobearx

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I have to admit, sometimes it does feel that way. But in this case there were some great points made by our veteran PvP crowd and we decided to hold the change back to a later version in order to address those points. In the end PTS is exactly for getting this type of feedback. As for the tone of the responses, I think it's ultimately our fault for not communicating enough. We have made big strides here but there is still plenty of room for improvement. We'll keep pushing ourselves to do better, with the goal of making the forums a better place for all.

 

look at my post above, but whatever man. i had my QQmilk for the day.

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I have to admit, sometimes it does feel that way. But in this case there were some great points made by our veteran PvP crowd and we decided to hold the change back to a later version in order to address those points. In the end PTS is exactly for getting this type of feedback. As for the tone of the responses, I think it's ultimately our fault for not communicating enough. We have made big strides here but there is still plenty of room for improvement. We'll keep pushing ourselves to do better, with the goal of making the forums a better place for all.

 

It's a near impossible balance catering to PvPers (or PvEers) of various skill levels. Everyone's got the same ability to post on the forums, and not having an idea of a posters actual ability to play the game makes assessing the validity of criticisms challenging, I'm sure.

 

That said, I really think adjusting how resolve works is the smarter way to go about it. it's a great mechanism that I feel has been underutilized from a CC management perspective from the dev group.

Edited by islander
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Forums are frequented by less than 10% of the playerbase in most games, yet those 10% whine enough to get the changes they want.

 

Anyway, I think there is way too much CC in PvP - doing away with it almost entirely might not be a bad thing. Certainly stun breaks could be on (much) shorter cooldowns. Resetting on death sounded like a great idea - why was it rolled back??

 

Also ... immunity timers for out of combat CC. Please.

Edited by Asavrede
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Rather than making certain classes have passive abilities that make them stronger or weaker (like tanks with insane amounts of passive armor, hp, or healing on their gear) the Devs designed the game around player abilities which when used properly would extend their life (stuns, cooldowns, stun-breakers etc). That's why there is so much CC in the game.

 

Your survivability depends on how well you use your CC's, and less on the mitigation from your gear. If they nerf CC's then they have to buff mitigation and that essentially just "dumbs-down" the game which nobody wants.

Edited by DimeStax
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I have to admit, sometimes it does feel that way. But in this case there were some great points made by our veteran PvP crowd and we decided to hold the change back to a later version in order to address those points. In the end PTS is exactly for getting this type of feedback. As for the tone of the responses, I think it's ultimately our fault for not communicating enough. We have made big strides here but there is still plenty of room for improvement. We'll keep pushing ourselves to do better, with the goal of making the forums a better place for all.

 

Thank you for commenting Bruce.

 

Honestly, the change would have done more harm than good with the more seasoned players...you made the right call not implementing it now. CC's ARE a big issue though and I truly hope you pursue other ways to minimize how much of an impact they actually have in PvP - the frustration they create is huge. CC's are needed...just not in the quantity we currently have.

 

My suggestions:

- cut the cooldown on CC breaks in half (or reduce on damage)

- 50% or 75% less damage while CC'd (stunned), this would make it a tactical play, not a way to beat an enemy to death while they sit there defenseless

- stun breaks on full Resolve

- Resolve lasts longer

- revert to the pre 1.4 Resolve system (overlapping CC's stack, filling Resolve quicker)

 

Any one of these changes (not all of them), would drastically help reduce the effect (and frustration) CC's have in PvP, without changing their core function. Again, we need CC's, we just don't need them to frustrate players to the point of quitting.

 

Personally, I think the best possible change you could make would be to reduce the damage taken by a player who is CC'd (stunned). That leaves all the current mechanics in place, but reduces the feeling players have of being "stunned to death".

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Personally, I think the best possible change you could make would be to reduce the damage taken by a player who is CC'd (stunned). That leaves all the current mechanics in place, but reduces the feeling players have of being "stunned to death".

this is a excellent idea.

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Forums are frequented by less than 10% of the playerbase in most games, yet those 10% whine enough to get the changes they want.

 

Anyway, I think there is way too much CC in PvP - doing away with it almost entirely might not be a bad thing. Certainly stun breaks could be on (much) shorter cooldowns. Resetting on death sounded like a great idea - why was it rolled back??

 

Also ... immunity timers for out of combat CC. Please.

 

Well the only way to voice opinions/concerns/ideas is on the forums, its the way it has always been done.

 

Too much CC, yes, sometimes it feels like it. Doing away with CC would be one of the worst things to do. You would never be able to bring down certain classes and forget about capping objectives or stalliing on defense.

 

CC is needed for this game and it used to be way better prior to 1.4

 

Personally, I think the best possible change you could make would be to reduce the damage taken by a player who is CC'd (stunned). That leaves all the current mechanics in place, but reduces the feeling players have of being "stunned to death".

 

Actually madness sins have an ability to reduce damage by 30% while stunned. The only problem is madness assassins is one of the if not the worst full spec in the game.

Edited by cycao
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I hope, ultimately, that everyone that enters PvP is shooting to be the best that they can possibly be. It's difficult to balance a game where the difference in skill between players is so great (some who rarely join warzones and some rarely do anything else). It's a fine line between helping less skilled players avoid hurting their chances of winning simply from a lack of knowledge and taking away any way to have competitive PvP of some kind.

 

If you've followed the top rated teams at all, you would know that objectives rarely get capped and matches generally come down to whatever the tie breaker is or whoever runs to one node first. Ensuring everyone has a CC break every life only decreases the chances of this changing.

 

Outside of competitive games, it basically takes away any chance of CC capping anything. Knowing when to use your CC break is important. You can say that this isn't a true measure of skill (the devs have), but if you're going to die from 3 people stunning you to death, having your CC break on this life means nothing. It gives the illusion that you have more control, because you can break that stun knowing you will have it back in 2 seconds when you die. The only reason for breaking this CC would be to stop a cap or possibly get a last hit in on someone and that will still be an option without CC break resetting, unless you used it previously.

 

I don't have a problem with necessary changes for the greater PvP community, but you already made one change to resolve that catered to those who don't understand how it works and it made stuns significantly worse. Making another change to fix that by catering to those who don't know what they are doing doesn't seem like the right move to make.

 

I'll be honest, CC should be used far more tactically than it is in this game and the cause of the problem is the enormous amount of hard CC in this game. No one wants to get beat up while unable to move, but soft CC is a tactical move (ability to escape, ability to CC cap, maybe even waiting on a CD) and you won't die during it most likely. The argument was made that stuns are necessary for PvE content, but I have never NEEDED a hard stun at any point in leveling, FPs or Ops. If you still feel extremely strongly it's necessary, then make them PvE only abilities.

 

This leaves CC available for it's intent. Change current hard stuns to a much shorter duration (say 2 seconds) or remove hard stuns from classes that don't rely on CC (op/soundrel and sin/shadow are pretty CC dependent) and replace with soft CC and/or channeled CC ( like force choke) where you can't be attacked by the person performing the CC at least. It will cut down on the amount of damage you take while CC'd without removing the amount of CC available for tactical use. Add talents to DoT heavy trees to allow soft CC to ignore DoT damage.

 

TL;DR Find a way to make people feel like they are stunned to death less without ruining mechanics necessary for organized PvP to function as intended.

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this games pvp is crap anyway worse i have ever seen. after 2.0 it actually managed to become even more *******r, which tbh i thought it was impossible, this game is dieing if not already dead, EA is just trying to milk what they can before the inevitable fail.
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I'll be honest, CC should be used far more tactically than it is in this game and the cause of the problem is the enormous amount of hard CC in this game. No one wants to get beat up while unable to move, but soft CC is a tactical move (ability to escape, ability to CC cap, maybe even waiting on a CD) and you won't die during it most likely. The argument was made that stuns are necessary for PvE content, but I have never NEEDED a hard stun at any point in leveling, FPs or Ops. If you still feel extremely strongly it's necessary, then make them PvE only abilities.

 

This was the reasoning behind changing how resolve build up because players used stuns like they were going out of style.

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this games pvp is crap anyway worse i have ever seen. after 2.0 it actually managed to become even more *******r, which tbh i thought it was impossible, this game is dieing if not already dead, EA is just trying to milk what they can before the inevitable fail.

 

Oh no, the sky is falling!

 

Funny, this PvP is leagues more balanced than many other games. Yeah, it definitely has issues that need to be addressed, but it isn't the worst out there, not by a long shot.

 

And LOL, game is dying?! Where have you been? Did you see the last earnings call? Notice any of the new additions to files in datamines? Take that as a no. . .

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I have to admit, sometimes it does feel that way. But in this case there were some great points made by our veteran PvP crowd and we decided to hold the change back to a later version in order to address those points. In the end PTS is exactly for getting this type of feedback. As for the tone of the responses, I think it's ultimately our fault for not communicating enough. We have made big strides here but there is still plenty of room for improvement. We'll keep pushing ourselves to do better, with the goal of making the forums a better place for all.

 

^This. There where loads of great reasons BW didnt need to change the stun breaker. Every decent PvPer knew why this wouldnt work. People who played in ranked or watch ranked matches on twitch knew even more/better reason why it shouldnt go into effect. The vocal minority wasnt the people who this specific change, it was people who didnt.

 

Does this mean i agree with the resolve system/being stunned for long periods of time? No. However, this was not the correct fix.

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This was the reasoning behind changing how resolve build up because players used stuns like they were going out of style.

 

Right, everyone used it whenever it lit up (like CC breaker apparently) and their solution was to allow people to be stunned far more often and for longer periods of time (exactly what people didn't want). Half the time I feel like people get within ten meters just to use their stun and run away when they could have just stayed at range in the first place.

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Right, everyone used it whenever it lit up (like CC breaker apparently) and their solution was to allow people to be stunned far more often and for longer periods of time (exactly what people didn't want). Half the time I feel like people get within ten meters just to use their stun and run away when they could have just stayed at range in the first place.

 

And players who did not know when to use CC now know when to which is leading to your character being controlled longer since they are more patient in either letting the resolve bar train a bit to allow another hard stun from filling the bar or not throwing a hard stun into a target which was just stunned which will not more the resolve bar.

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Forums are frequented by less than 10% of the playerbase in most games, yet those 10% whine enough to get the changes they want.

 

Anyway, I think there is way too much CC in PvP - doing away with it almost entirely might not be a bad thing. Certainly stun breaks could be on (much) shorter cooldowns. Resetting on death sounded like a great idea - why was it rolled back??

 

Also ... immunity timers for out of combat CC. Please.

 

Perhaps if you learned to read, you'd have an answer, instead of QQ'ing...

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I have to admit, sometimes it does feel that way. But in this case there were some great points made by our veteran PvP crowd and we decided to hold the change back to a later version in order to address those points. In the end PTS is exactly for getting this type of feedback. As for the tone of the responses, I think it's ultimately our fault for not communicating enough. We have made big strides here but there is still plenty of room for improvement. We'll keep pushing ourselves to do better, with the goal of making the forums a better place for all.

 

Thank you for clarifying this, it's very much appreciated.

 

Reading is for rich people.

 

ikr? Lol :p

Edited by Pistols
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Oh no, the sky is falling!

 

Funny, this PvP is leagues more balanced than many other games. Yeah, it definitely has issues that need to be addressed, but it isn't the worst out there, not by a long shot.

 

And LOL, game is dying?! Where have you been? Did you see the last earnings call? Notice any of the new additions to files in datamines? Take that as a no. . .

 

Pretty much this. People who leave this game pvp wise are leaving because of the lack of PvP content, not the PvP itself.

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I have to admit, sometimes it does feel that way. But in this case there were some great points made by our veteran PvP crowd and we decided to hold the change back to a later version in order to address those points. In the end PTS is exactly for getting this type of feedback. As for the tone of the responses, I think it's ultimately our fault for not communicating enough. We have made big strides here but there is still plenty of room for improvement. We'll keep pushing ourselves to do better, with the goal of making the forums a better place for all.

 

Bruce you guys have done nothing wrong so there's no need to apologise. What you need to do is make changes to the game you and your fellow devs think are right and tell these bunch of Muppets to ****. Because half the current issues are due to listening to the conflicting ideas of so called experienced pro players which means the way forward becomes confused. Some say red some say blue no ones right if these fellow subscribers knew what they were talking about they would be working for a developer.

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I only do lowbie pvp as a variation on leveling with quests. I have lots of alts so variation is good. However, I never do ranked warzones and the higher level my characters are the less I pvp with them.

 

PvP is not my focus so that's ok for me as such, but I probably would like to PvP a bit more than I do.

 

So why don't I?

 

1) Stunlocking. There is nothing I hate more in any game's PvP than stunlocking, especially from stealth. You can't defend against stealth really and it's stun stun stun death. And there is nothing you can do. Just nothing. Then you respawn and go out again and the same happens...over and over. So really, I don't see the fun in that.

 

2) Lack of choice/variation. There are very few maps and I can't choose which ones I play. I do remember my UT days with lots of maps, most of which were made by players btw. And I could choose the map I want to play. Why does that matter? Well, I like two maps and the rest are boring/annoying. Add to that the fact that it's random and there I am.

 

For the current topic, stunlocking, I can only say this. I agree that if the solution is not the right one becuase it causes more problems than it solves, it should not be implemented. But I will also say that as long as that issue is resolved I will certainly not care about PvP. You want me to queue for PvP? Well, you know what to do. But I also don't believe in half work or solutions that backfire.

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What I find hilarious is that people still play PvP in games like this and think that PvP can ever be balanced, it just isn't possible to balance a PvP system where gear and classes are so different. No developer has manged to do this to my knowledge, at least all the countless MMOs I have played has never had a balanced PvP system.

 

And so people complain about stuff, nerf this, buff that etc etc. And so the circle of nerfs and buff and additions continue, it will never come to a point where developers and players can say, ok this is now a balanced PvP system, no need for more changes here.

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Pretty much this. People who leave this game pvp wise are leaving because of the lack of PvP content, not the PvP itself.

 

I would certainly agree with this. The PvP in this game is a freaking blast!!! The lack of variety is what's hurting...5 wz's...that's all we have...and in 4 of those, the most important job is doing NOTHING while guarding a node/pylon/door/turret. NOBODY PvPs to guard something...nobody!

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What I find hilarious is that people still play PvP in games like this and think that PvP can ever be balanced, it just isn't possible to balance a PvP system where gear and classes are so different. No developer has manged to do this to my knowledge, at least all the countless MMOs I have played has never had a balanced PvP system.

 

And so people complain about stuff, nerf this, buff that etc etc. And so the circle of nerfs and buff and additions continue, it will never come to a point where developers and players can say, ok this is now a balanced PvP system, no need for more changes here.

 

What I find hilarious is when PvE or RP folk like yourself, feel the need to comment on the "balance" of PvP. Truthfully, the balance isn't all that bad right now. They're within a few tweaks of having a helluva well balanced system. Healing is a bit OP when combined with guard and a few DPS specs (Commando/Merc) could use a slight buff, but overall, the balance is relatively good.

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this games pvp is crap anyway worse i have ever seen.

 

The Secret World called and said to say you're wrong :D

 

As much as I love that game (and I like it a good bit more than this one), and as much I think pvp is totally borked right now because of their laughable bolster system at 55 (how many months now?), TSW's PVP is much, much worse :eek:

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