If they don't put in barbershops, TOR will fail.

Yeah I forgot about babrbershops one. That is a pretty passionate discussion when it comes up. The first time I saw it I really thought it was a joke. I guess they had them in WOW? Must have been after I left that game.

this game is the DA2 of MMOs

That's the meanest thing anyone has said about this game yet.

SWTOR is not a bad game, it’s nice to see a Star Wars environment again. I like my trooper, my big gun and my armor. I played a couple of MMO and I always have only one character and I’m more the RP-PvP type than PvE even tho I raided in that game that shall not be named. SWTOR is good for a while up until when you reach the end, at this point it becomes like a lot of other MMO and all you can do is essentially raid again or PvP again. Players that want to LIVE in the Star Wars universe won’t be able to do it, too many features are simply missing, sometimes they are very basic features expected in a AAA MMO like it was falsely advertised by the devs. I’ll try not to talk about bugs and to talk more about absent features and restrictions.

 

 

Dead world

Let’s start with the main problem about the game, the dead world. Best example is Coruscant. Remember the Coruscant scenes in the movies? Huge crowds of people, dense traffic, in short, a living world. Now go to Coruscant in the game, you’ll see a tiny zone linking the spaceport to the senate (nice coincidence by the way!) with barely a couple of NPC standing in place, frozen in time. That plaza is the only “living” area of Coruscant and the only place you’ll go back to (on that planet) after finishing the game, all other zones are full of enemies, completely linear and underground or in buildings and don’t represent at all what we expect of Coruscant. Zones are not connected and there is no feeling of unity. Some zones are obviously made for a video game since they would be impossible in reality by their poor design, it might not be as bad as The Citadel or Illium in Mass Effect but it’s still obvious.

 

You wanted to go to a place like Dex’s dinner? Sorry, there is no such open sky area nor any place like that. You wanted to stand at the 300th floor of a skyscraper and look and the scenery through the window? Not possible. You wanted to visit the planet through the catwalks high in the air? Not possible. The same problems are visible on Nar Shaddaa. One zone is above ground, everything else is away from the landscapes that make the planet notorious and there is little to no NPC life.

 

The main cities like Coruscant, Kaas City, Nar Shaddaa, Corellia, etc. need more life. Hundreds of NPC must be added and they have to walk around, have animations and do things like using a computer, moving to talk to other NPC, going to cantina, etc. Dozens of NPC vehicles must also fly by and fill up the sky. Zones like in the movies must be added, social zones with no enemies, like the bar district or the dinner in ep2, or the building in the books, apartments, shops, attractions, social places, etc. Stop putting everything and every important NPC in the same place, we are not in that much of a hurry. The fleet is currently the only important place to be at level 50, add reasons to go back to the planets.

 

The PvE enemies are almost always in packs and placed in such a way that it doesn’t make sense for a battle and they are frozen for eternity, not moving or doing anything and it just adds to the feeling of dead worlds. They also have to do things and move so it look like a real world.

 

What it is: Coruscant Spaceport | Coruscant Senate | Coruscant Streets

 

What is has to be: Coruscant crowd

 

 

Exploration

Exploration is currently really hard to do. You want to go explore that coast? Chances are good that you are going to enter an exhaustion zone and die, even if you are on land and unaffected by weather. The lands are filled with invisible walls and useless limitations. Most structures are unclimbable or simply inaccessible. As said in previous point, we need more non-fighting zones to go to.

 

 

Day/night cycle

As other caring people on the forum at that time, I was shocked that day a couple of years ago when they announced that every planet would be frozen in time, never to evolve, never to change. It’s mind boggling to see that in a 2012 MMO. A day/night cycle is essential for the mood and immersion of the game. You wanted to organize a RP event during night on a day planet? No chance. You wanted to watch the lights of Coruscant at night? Not possible. You wanted to finally see a day on Nar Shaddaa? Not possible. You wanted to watch the sunset between the hills of Alderaan? No.

 

You'll never see: Coruscant Night | Tatooine sunset | Tatooine at night

 

Pre-rebuttal:

“But the day/night cycle was crap in that other game!”

Just because it was crap, too dark, too light or ugly in another games does not mean that it must be the case for SWTOR too. I’ve seen that argument many times and yet it never made any sense.

 

“Planets don’t all have a 24 hours rotation in the Galaxy Far Far Away!”

So? The rotation just has to be based on the actual data of that planet.

“I don’t want to play during night all the time!”

Many planets are at perpetual night at this moment. Anyway, as said before, the rotation isn’t always 24 hours and it doesn’t have to be on a 1:1 ratio with real life either.

 

 

Dynamic weather

Some planets have special weather but in most case it’s just to limit (limitation being the key word in this game) the zones you can go to like the killer sandstorm on Tatooine if you try to go PvP in the enemy city. Weather needs to be more dynamic, make it rain on Coruscant, spawn a huge blizzard once in a while on Hoth, make the sky change, give life to the world.

 

Tatooine sandstorm

 

 

Environment interaction, social activites & RP

To live in a world, we must interact with the world. Elevator buttons are not enough, there isn’t much liberty in the environment. Cantinas are filled with chairs, why can’t we sit on them? We must be able to gather friends, go to a cantina, sit at a table start playing a game like Pazaak or Sabacc with the possibility to bet credits. I see some kind of Dejarik game in my ship, why can’t I use it?

 

Sabacc

 

Allow us to activate more buttons in our ship, like a viewport toggle, lights, training simulation, etc. Allow us to put waypoint on the map and establish a route for a player created race event. Allow us to climb obstacles like in other games so we could actually go to places that are obviously possible to go to for a trained warrior instead of being blocked like if we were on a wheelchair

 

Allow swimming! Not having that in a modern game is an insult. The reveal of Otoh Gunga in The Phantom Menace was a great moment and we can’t do similar things in the game.

 

Pre-rebuttal:

“I wear heavy armor, I can’t swim!”

It’s the Galaxy Far Far Away with technology thousands of years ahead of us, many solutions exist. Submersible armor, waterproof electronics, scuba gear or simply remove armor when swimming!

 

“Underwated content was crap in that other game!”

See answer for day/night cycle. Because other games failed in doing a good job doesn’t mean that it will fail here too. A lot of potential for underwater content exists.

 

Swimming

 

 

PvP

Some people might like boxed PvP and love to play ball with the enemy or destroy a ship in Alderaan for the hundredth time but many of us come from games with excellent world PvP with a lot of possibilities. One thing that the system of planets with a range of levels prevents is good world PvP. You wanted to raid the capital of the enemy faction? Not possible, capital world are restricted by faction. You Imperial scums wanted to occupy Anchorhead? Not possible, you’ll get killed by a sandstorm while trying to go there. You wanted to have epic battles on Alderaan? Sorry, due to the fact that planets have a level range, there is no reason for a 50 to go there and you’ll only piss lowbies off. You wanted to go the the Jedi Temple on Tython and kill Satele Shan? Not possible, that planet is also off limit, In fact, it will be impossible to ever do any PvP on Ord Mantell, Hutta, Korriban, Tython, Coruscant, Taris, Balmorra and it’s impossible for most of Nar Shaddaa. All iconic worlds on which you will never have the chance to fight the other faction. Solution would be to add more zones to all planets so lvl 50 players have a reason to leave their fleet and explore the world.

 

 

Space & vehicle

Like many people, I was very disappointed when they announced the tunnel space combat. The current system is not bad for what it’s worth, but it could be so much more. It should have been at least as good as the previous one, in SWG, with the liberty and possibilities, or even better, like in X-Wing Alliance. It was said the space combat will be improved soon and it’s very exciting. It needs to be multiplayer and free roam. The travel could also be improved so it doesn’t feel so disjointed. Allow us to go to empty space and float aimlessly, race in a field of asteroids or land on them and mine. Allow us to build structures and bases in space or in asteroids.

 

The vehicles are also very basic. As other said, the speed bonus is very small so it could be boosted. Companions could sit behind the player on the speeder when travelling instead of disappearing to oblivion. Vehicles could be parked and stay there while the player walks away or they could be called from the ship and have an animation of auto-piloting to the player from distance instead of appearing out of nowhere and disappearing every time in an unrealistic way. We should also be able to use them in more places like caves and big buildings.

 

 

Interface & graphics

Other people have talked a lot about the problems of the interface and it seems the devs finally understand and are going to give us some liberty. The maximum of 2 windows is ridiculous, we don’t have enough bars for all skills and items. The friend/guild lists need many functions like personal comments and a complete right click menu. The market must have options to filter better, by type of items and stats.

 

Chat bubbles needs to be in the game, it’s a basic feature for social interaction.

 

The real high resolution textures needs to be available at least for our own character, companion and groups and preferably for everyone in close proximity.

 

Texture problem

 

 

Character

The lack of races at release was disappointing. After SWG, one could expect at least the same races and preferably more, but we got at lot less and most of them are humans with a different color. I guess it’s too late for that, we already made our character and I will certainly not start over.

 

The weapon system didn’t receive any innovation either. A class will have a certain weapon proficiency and it will keep that for all the game. The rockets, grenades, laser shots, beams and electricity all come out of the same barrel.

 

The bounty hunter has a jetpack, that’s great, only he can’t use it at all to access restricted places or jump higher, the Force users can’t use their ability on the world either.

 

 

The cover system is years behind the current standards and requires the player to go to a specific location instead of allowing to take cover anywhere and behind anything and it is restricted to two classes.

 

Real cover system

 

The current item modification is a good step in the right direction but a complete appearance tab system is missing. We should be able to change the color, change logos, have clothes on top of armor and be able to have multiple gear setups for social, combat or events.

 

 

Guild

No guild ship, no guild HQ, nowhere private and special to go. They are going to add a guild bank, that’s good, but we also need to be able to wear a guild symbol like an emblem, logo, piece of equipment or maybe even a rank patch. Having a guild is really just a permanent group chat.

 

 

Endgame

Raid again or PvP again. Most MMO do that mistake. These things are dev-made and have an end, a limit. We must have ways to make our own content, RP tools, possibility to make events, housing, collections, achievements, these things can keep people busy for a long time and if made correctly they can never end. I don’t plan to stay in the game if it’s to log and wait between raids and PvP events. Quests and stories have and end, we must be able to create.

 

 

Housing

As said above, housing is a good way to keep people busy. If we could decorate our ship with furnitures, change the color or, like in SWG, drop every item of the game on the ground and move/rotate in anywhere in our ship to create a real personal space. Most objects in the ship are actually useless. Allow us to use the med center, go in the bed, put items in crates and wardrobes, allow people to sit in the council room and do a briefing for a future mission. Allow us to change the weapon racks so they actually display the guns we used and want to show. We could also buy a home on planets like Coruscant and Corellia and be in our apartment in a skyscraper high above the ground and watch the life on the planet and decorate it like said above.

 

Trophies | Player made council room

 

 

Pre-rebuttal:

“Housing isn’t heroic!”

You can’t be a hero all the time. Han Solo spent a lot of time in his ship, customizing it and changing everything. Luke and Mara had an apartment on Coruscant and I’m pretty sure they had good times there creating Ben. Han and Leia have a place on Coruscant too. Obi-Wan lived like a cave troll in his little house on Tatooine for years so is Yoda on Dagobah. Students at Luke’s academy all have a room. The examples are countless. We can’t be expected to live in this game by fighting all the time.

 

 

Crafting

The current discovery system is too random, we need more control. The resources could have stats and qualities, that would allow dedicated crafters to be famous across the galaxy and people would go look specifically for their items. I remember that weaponsmith in SWG that was known for the good materials he used in crafting guns. I made the trip to Naboo then went far in the wilds to find his shop and buy stuff from his vendor then I could see him in the backstore, crafting and working, that was great and I actually felt I was in a real world.

 

 

Conclusion

SWTOR has potential, but at this moment it is too far behind in many aspects. SWG was bad on many points but it had awesome ideas, the housing was great and the immersion was present. LotRO has a good appearance tab, Champions Online has awesome personalization possibilities and dynamic combat system so does Age of Conan, EVE online has good ideas and incredible liberty and World of Warcraft must have something too.

 

Don’t tell me to go back to X MMO, SWTOR is the only Star Wars MMO and that represents a lot in my life. Accept that it would gain a lot by having most of these sometimes very basic features and the game would only be better and last longer.

Ok i like some of the things but i would add a few my own

1-The BH has a jet pack but he cant fly with it yes he has a few skills that let him use it for combat but still he should be able to fly if only for a few minutes or seconds w/e

2-The trooper might be a little better off using the cable he (the vanguard gets) to climb walls for a bit and maybe something like that for the commando as well

3-Jedi/sith They can jump really high in the movies so why not in this i know the JK and SW get a combat jump but what about out of combat?

4-Ok the trooper gets to use rifles and assaultcannons depending on your AC but i have had lots of cannons drop on my BH and hes got lots of rifles drop as well but i would like to see the Bh get something like a carbine if only the powertech and the merc get something like it

4-speeder combat strap a Gun pod to your speeder and make a mess of the imps or the reps depending on your side

5-and maybe the BH doing quests for both sides seeing as the BH was more of the independent sort

Cant think of anything more atm so ill keep thinking

This thread is a joke.

If this game had 400 npcs on screen with dynamic weather and active day night cycle it would require an i5 2500k and a 500 series card to run.

Then you wouldnt be able to play it.

This thread is a joke.

 

If this game had 400 npcs on screen with dynamic weather and active day night cycle it would require an i5 2500k and a 500 series card to run.

 

Then you wouldnt be able to play it.

+1 and alot off ppl want to run an b able to play the game like myself, just to add btw, the OP clearly didnt look hard enough as i was in an area where i could c out of the blinds from a window on nar shaddaa an c all the traffic passin by, im not 100% sure on the loc

Ok i like some of the things but i would add a few my own

 

1-The BH has a jet pack but he cant fly with it yes he has a few skills that let him use it for combat but still he should be able to fly if only for a few minutes or seconds w/e

 

2-The trooper might be a little better off using the cable he (the vanguard gets) to climb walls for a bit and maybe something like that for the commando as well

 

3-Jedi/sith They can jump really high in the movies so why not in this i know the JK and SW get a combat jump but what about out of combat?

 

4-Ok the trooper gets to use rifles and assaultcannons depending on your AC but i have had lots of cannons drop on my BH and hes got lots of rifles drop as well but i would like to see the Bh get something like a carbine if only the powertech and the merc get something like it

 

4-speeder combat strap a Gun pod to your speeder and make a mess of the imps or the reps depending on your side

 

5-and maybe the BH doing quests for both sides seeing as the BH was more of the independent sort

 

Cant think of anything more atm so ill keep thinking

6- I should be able to ride sharks with lazer beans strapped to their heads.

Oh wait were you being serious?

/signed

Agree 100% with OP. Some very good additions that would make SWTOR better and appeal to more crowds. Specifically to the crowds that do not just log in twice or three times a week to do dailies/weeklies/raids.

If you want me to spend more time in your game, SWTOR, give me more stuff to do but shoot and kill.

Bump.

Edit: Add this thread to the Suggestion Box section. Might get more responses.

This thread is a joke.

 

If this game had 400 npcs on screen with dynamic weather and active day night cycle it would require an i5 2500k and a 500 series card to run.

 

Then you wouldnt be able to play it.

^ This. Single player games can get away with having amazing graphics, that demand the best computers to play it, because you're the only one playing it. But when you have a bunch of people playing the same game, at the same time, you have to make the game accessible to everyone. Not just the dude with deepest pockets.

Don’t tell me to go back to X MMO, SWTOR is the only Star Wars MMO and that represents a lot in my life. Accept that it would gain a lot by having most of these sometimes very basic features and the game would only be better and last longer.

A multi-page essay about how unhappy you are. So, what are you going to do about it?

Oh and "sometimes very basic features" is an oxymoron.

I like the game, and I believe it will last a long time. Your long winded whinage has some elements that would be nice and very likely are on their plan for inclusion at a later date. Nothing original in your whine though.. it all been expressed hundreds of times already, often with critical dissatisfaction tone (like you did). Nothing I can't live without at the moment, and so much else about the game (if you love the SW lore) to enjoy while they work on future content releases.

People who only want to play an MMO that is "complete" and in need of nothing, should not play MMOs, IMO. People who don't like a particular game, should move along and find something they do like.

when you have a bunch of people playing the same game, at the same time, you have to make the game accessible to everyone.

why is the best solution in every MMO to make thoughtless grinds with ****** graphics?

6- I should be able to ride sharks with lazer beans strapped to their heads.

 

Oh wait were you being serious?

Yes im being serious

This is an excellent post.

Thank you OP

/signed

 

Agree 100% with OP. Some very good additions that would make SWTOR better and appeal to more crowds. Specifically to the crowds that do not just log in twice or three times a week to do dailies/weeklies/raids.

 

If you want me to spend more time in your game, SWTOR, give me more stuff to do but shoot and kill.

 

Bump.

 

Exact, this is all about the players that don't want to just raid all the time and do the same content over and over but more about the social and RP types that want to live in the Star Wars universe.

They would be great options that just added more freedom to the way we play an MMO. Sadly, little of this will probably ever make it into this game.

Most of what you list is sandbox. The other is immersion intensive. These days most of the casuals want neither. They like the rails. Easy, no thought, log in and be lead along the track. They are happy for this streamlining we have currently. They will fight you tooth and nail to keep it so bare bones. To keep it as 'raids and arenas'... as my guildies call it.

It is my first Theme park MMO also. I am as bewildered as you are... I watch the boards daily though, and it is apparent that the majority want it this way....

...

Thanks a lot for this topic, a lot of exellent ideas!

May Bioware aware of that

They would be great options that just added more freedom to the way we play an MMO. Sadly, little of this will probably ever make it into this game.

 

Most of what you list is sandbox. The other is immersion intensive. These days most of the casuals want neither. They like the rails. Easy, no thought, log in and be lead along the track. They are happy for this streamlining we have currently. They will fight you tooth and nail to keep it so bare bones. To keep it as 'raids and arenas'... as my guildies call it.

 

It is my first Theme park MMO also. I am as bewildered as you are... I watch the boards daily though, and it is apparent that the majority want it this way....

One can hope that one day, the streamliners and the sandboxers will coexist in symbiosis in the same world for the good of the game.

Many very good points in this thread. Once again, however, I think that what could have been an extremely good MMO is going to end up by the wayside due to developers pushing to release the game early.

A lot of TOR feels unfinished. I know its an MMO, and it was a really clean launch, but it seems pretty clear that what we have now is really a barebones game, with much of the polish and many of the features missing.

Here's hoping the game sticks around long enough for the devs to clean it up and implement some of the promises they've been making.

I think you're being a little overly generous with the "it has potential" comment but otherwise I totally agree with you..

QFE

It's time to invest on a high level to keep the ship in space. The recent issues didn't help either but rather shortened the time period till the bare bones begin to rattle terribly.

Heck, give us some meat!

Do not think it would be interesting to have quest without fight?

Such as those we saw in Mass Effect and Dragon Age. Maybe without the dubbed only through speeches written by pop-up ingame. Missions without great rewards or benefits ... but do to deepen the knowledge of the players' gaming world. The alien races that inhabit it. The political and social life.

Even quests such as:

I carry an object from point A to point B.

I speak with the character A to convince the character B.

Maybe some fun quests to laugh.

Do a lot of this quest is beautiful! But repeat fighting mission for a long run it gets boring and repetitive the experience of the player.

There should be some distractions and changes to quests and leveling. Maybe it would be nice to put the mini-games. As the races of Podracer. Do not put a real mini-game where you run the fan means but more of a gaming network bet.

Create a form of gambling controlled by interstellar Hutt. (as happened in the real Star Wars movies).

Also create mini-games in the cantinas. A card game for example. As can be seen in many other BioWare games.

A player can buy the cards. A player wins the cards. Create your deck and play against a CPU or against other players. Create an online leaderboard. Make buying and selling your cards. Create a game in the game that keeps you glued to the screen.

The open areas of the planets without the enemies are very large but they are empty... They are dead areas. NPCs are still inactive and inert. NPCs are few. There are huge empty spaces and useless. As Coruscant ... the Senators Palace and the large square lifeless.

Don't you think that it would be great to see a living city on earth, too, not just traffic in the sky? NPC with walking and talking. droids accompanying Senators and many alien races who live their lives on a fixed binaries, but they occupy the void.

The cantina full of NPCs who speak and dance like a real movie star wars. Bartenders who sell drinks. Chairs to sit on! Would it be nice to sit on the chairs of the world. Just sit back and maybe talk to someone. Just talk to other players even for socialize. Wasting time and getting lost in your fantasy world.

I dream like city streets full of life(virtual life). People(NPC) who walk to shopping. NPC that control the streets as the police. NPC to talk without utilities. NPC that makes life in this world. That makes you a little piece of a big universe and not only a player.

The little things can make something great. Here we have a universe. A universe at the beginning but that must be filled...and not just from players.

I am supporting this thread because it's the best written one I've seen yet. I believe the problem is BioWare was not properly prepared to make a MMO. The BW legacy, though very impressive, is focused exclusively on story-driven single player games. To transition to open-world is hard enough, but SWTOR has had to transition to MMO on top of that. The result? A predominantly single player game with a few multiplayer features tacked on.

You can tell the MP is tacked on because if you allowed 3 companions instead of 1 and gave them better AI, all heroics and fp will play similarly to Mass Effect. I think the AI in this game is intentionally dumbed down because your companions have almost no reaction at all. If they are in AoE fire, they stay there until burned to death. Man, I miss Liarra and Garrus. The bigger MP features, the operations and warzones, just don't stand out from other games. Originally I thought it inappropriate for WoW players to call operations raids, but now, I think they are just that, rebranded with a different name.

I don't fault BW. They made a good game. It's just... wrong as MMO. They better turn it around fast. Guild Wars 2 will come out soon (maybe), and it has a huge price advantage. Even Besthesda is smelling blood and has re-acquired the Fallout MMO rights. Both have very high potential to just ruin SWTOR.

I think BioWare should just make the single player portion of SWTOR free to play and lock the MP parts for subscription-based until they have a whole lot more multiplayer features. I mean, all they have to do is lock the flashpoint shuttle bay, the interfleet transport, and the warzone queue. Maybe also lock team forming as well for the heroics.

I agree with pretty much everything except there are some things that I agree are issues but are very low on my priority list, like day/night.

Here's my list:

- Sharding, I don't feel like I'm in an MMO when it's sharded

- Lack of Innovation in gameplay.

- No UI customization

- Legacy system not fully implemented. I'm legacy lvl 6 right now but that means nothing because the system isn't implemented.

- Boring NPCs. It's completely immersion breaking to get this epic story told to you "There's a vast horde of Rakghouls about to bear down on our fair outpost." You go outside and see teams of Star Wars zombies ordered neatly in groups of no more than 5, standing around doing nothing. This is something I really really hope that Guild Wars is able to do something about with their Dynamic quest system.

And of course the myriad bugs etc..

Let’s start with the main problem about the game, the dead world. Best example is Coruscant. Remember the Coruscant scenes in the movies? Huge crowds of people, dense traffic, in short, a living world.

ummm what?? in the movies coruscant has even less people then the games. The only time you see large crowds is the traffic but that is already in game.

Basically everything the op mentioned would do nothing for me, those aren't the features the game needs, besides, the majority of them, are like new content entirely.

This game is currently missing the tools necessary to enjoy its current content, bw should focus on functionality before adding more stuff.