I genuinely ask. I don't see anything likable, in the character. I don't even want to argue, I just want to have a glimmer of understanding. I can't see how you can like him as a Dark Sider, nor as a Light Sider. Has he been a Moff, I would accept the character, but as a Dark Lord of the Sith, I just don't understand. Especially when I see him bromancing Satele, as a ghost, after his death. Why does a Sith, care about the well-being of the galaxy, after his own death... ? Especially when the guy in charge now, is basically a Sith !

Please, help me understand.

I can't say that I "like" him per se, but I do think he's an excellent character and a good leader for the Empire. He shows much more foresight than most Sith do (since most of them appear to be borderline psychotic), and willingly works together with the Jedi to overcome serious threats facing both factions. He is calm, level headed, rational, and is honest with the Republic as long as they are honest with them. He sees beyond the bickering of the Dark Council and demands that his fellow Sith straighten up and work to better the Empire, not just themselves.

In short, I guess I could say I like him in that he is what I think a Sith should be- still a follower of the DS, but not so insane that he can't see what must be done when it needs to be done.

So yeah, would he and a Lightsider get along? Highly doubtful. But he's better than most of the Sith we've been introduced to over the course of the game, and he'd be more likely to be willing to talk if nothing else.

he adopts and embodies an idealistic interpretation of the Sith Code -

Fundamentally he envisions and works towards an empire built on upwards mobility based on meritocracy and ambition, with the fundamental assumption that each person working to better themselves will better the society as a whole. His philosophy and action is devoid of the usual backbiting of other Sith, living instead by the mantra Might makes Right. This is seen in things like how he handles the Wrath's ascension (conflict between Wrath and Baras, whoever triumphs in combat is clearly correct). That being said he also subverts this ideal when it is in the best interest of the empire (dealing with strong idiots, he is distraught at the damage pointless in-fighting does to the empire).

He is also, uniquely, limited in his ambitions on the dark council. Though clearly the dominant force he declines ascending the emperors seat, whether out of an understanding of his own severe mortality or a desire to not give other council members a more clear target to compete for and against is up to interpretation.

Lastly we see his dedication to fighting in our short personal experience with him in chapter 1. Dedicated to fighting at all costs, he shows defiance even to the point of his death against Valk/Vitiate. Overall he's the sith with the most developed character and dark-side personality that remains accessible to light/neutral characters.

That being said, I find it a shame they couldn't retread Darth Jadus, who philosophically was a much more dark-side oriented leadership figure.

I do think he's an excellent character and a good leader for the Empire. He shows much more foresight than most Soth do (since most of them appear to be boarderline psychotic), and willingly works together with the Jedi to overcome serious threats facing both factions. He is calm, level headed, rational, and is honest with the Republic as long as they are honest with them. He sees beyond the bickering of the Dark Council and demands that his fellow Sith straighten up and work to better the Empire, not just themselves.

Basically this.

Before there was Lana Beniko, Marr was the only Sith Lord most players interacted with who was sane and prgamatic. He also plays against type because he's in faceless Juggernaut armor but is thoughtful with a bit of dry humor. That he's aware that he is dying also puts the crazy Sith ambition on ice. He has power over the Empire but has concluded that he should try to make it run as best he can before he succumbs. He doesn't deny that he is succumbing or seek to do anything about that.

He's also something of a bro to the SI and SW, again being the only superior who doesn't mess with them.

That he could work with Satele is plausible.

I never did. In fact, I found in most cases, my characters did not get along with their leaders on the Empire and Republic sides as they were shortsighted, weak, corrupt and an obstacle on my road to making a better galaxy.

I was glad to see Marr killed off and would be equally glad to see the Chancellor killed off as well as a number of others in the process. That they now have Marr, as a ghost, chil-laxing around a campfire with a Jedi is actually very funny and enjoyable.

Has he been a Moff, I would accept the character, but as a Dark Lord of the Sith, I just don't understand.

He is the person he is. What blocks your understanding is you holding on to your own view of what a Sith should be like. The easiest solution to your dilemma is to drop the idea that he is Sith, he is just a powerful force-user who is passable as Sith to the rest of the Empire.

The thing is he is the most dogmatic sith in the game all about war and victory and not the petty political conflicts. Think Darth Malgus except the whole betrayal bit and he does not go around murdering other sith for no reason. Now because he was such a hardcore old school sith is the reason why he was killed by big E.

I like to imagine that Marka Ragnos was like marr and Darth Malgus hence why he died of old age instead of being back stabbed like most sith.

Even if my inquisitor respected him greatly he still enjoyed killing him in his dream. *sorry marr*

Personally...

I wouldn't go far and say I like him. I always found hims very intimidating (especially since all my Sith are body 2 and females are always shorters in this stupid game) .

I'm not big on Lore and stuff (running on lore from games mainly) , but for a sith I found him impressive . He wasn't suffering from paranoia that most sith seem to have . And he was clearly a warrior born for the battelfield . My wrath was a warrior too , and in a way she could understand him and find something in commun with him then say Baras or Thanathon or even Malgus (even if she agreed with Malgus , just not the way he was going about things) .

So while I don't know much about him (beside that he is scary)...he did earn my respect when he stood against Mister must shave on that cutscene . And even felt sad and picked the reply that he brough stability to a world of Sith who acted like a Dark elf society (save for lack of religion or a Loth) .

I did Love how he reacted to my Jedi consular , he was going like she was Holy water and he was a Vampire and she was too close to him

But yeah , sometimes respect is better then Liking . Respect is earned , Liking often come off more like being fanboy . Wich is good..if it doesn't lead to the Dark side aka Zealot behavior lol

So yeah Marr has my respect , liking him is a matter of perspective . I like and Love Satele , I respect Marr .

He's the kind of sane ruler the Empire needs if it is to survive, like Malgus before him. A Sith who sees beyond blind ambition and petty, short-sighted desires.

I guess that's why he got offed by the plot like Malgus before him. Under an Emperor Marr the Sith Empire would likely start to move away from the kitten-eating evil typically associated with the Sith, which is something Star Wars rarely abides for long from the Sith.

I liked Marr, because he seemed to be generally friendly with my Inquisitor. Not in a "I'm going to backstab you later" sort of way either, generally on good terms. If Sith could have BFF they would have been BFF.

I did not get that feeling with the Wrath, though I did get the feeling of some possible tolerance/respect, but it did not feel like the friendship level Imperious and Marr have.

Marr doesn't deny the talents of the Hunter and Agent, but it feels like he believes them beneath him (which they are, so it makes sense).

Marr also isn't the kill everyone type of Sith, though he certainly seems the type willing to main and have his teams sacrifice themselves for the present goal.

I liked Marr, because he seemed to be generally friendly with my Inquisitor. Not in a "I'm going to backstab you later" sort of way either, generally on good terms. If Sith could have BFF they would have been BFF.

 

I did not get that feeling with the Wrath, though I did get the feeling of some possible tolerance/respect, but it did not feel like the friendship level Imperious and Marr have.

 

Marr doesn't deny the talents of the Hunter and Agent, but it feels like he believes them beneath him (which they are, so it makes sense).

 

Marr also isn't the kill everyone type of Sith, though he certainly seems the type willing to main and have his teams sacrifice themselves for the present goal.

He hated mine...like hell....she was so psycho! she be Best Stabber forever !

My main is a SI, and after the whole story it felt good to finally have a fellow Sith not trying to kill me or humiliate me in some way, therefore after this I could only like him even with the rest of my toons.

Darth Marr is the epytome of what a Sith Commander already at the top should be, a guy with vision and now above petty rivalries with his own kin, but still dark and ruthless. By strengthening the empire you strengthen yourself too, so it's not like he's a selfless samaritan .

For the ghost thing, he was at peace with death long before actually dying and his entire life was dedicated to defend the empire so I don't see why his motivations would change in death when all is at risk and he could still be of use. Also Satele and him were the poster children for republic and empire cooperation since SoR. Basically exactly what the Outlander is doing now so it wasn't out of place, with Satele in exile and Marr dead it was kinda like them handing over the torch to us, atleast that's my interpretation of it .

A lot of the empire you see is an empire ruled by an elite class of mostly youngish, emotionally immature psychopathic young adults with magic powers and no rules. When you think about it though, the empire has to have, or has to have had, better leaders if it'd survived for centuries. If you are an empire player who wants to imagine that the empire IS a functional (though probably unpleasant) society led by competent (but almost certainly evil) leaders, then Darth Marr is a glimpse into that possibility.

People also like him for the same reasons most likable characters are likable - he's a character that people can relate to, and he has qualities that are admirable. He's the empire's defender (literally, having held the sphere of defence for 40 ish years), he genuinely cares about the state of the empire. The guy's like 60 and foreseen his own death, and yet is still interested in opposing the emperor only for the benefit of the empire he leaves behind. This is something players can relate to. He's also competent, practical, gives respect where it's due, and seems to inspire loyalty. And there are so few other characters empire side that players can relate to, or have any redeeming qualities.

I always wondered whether more sith would be like him if only they managed to live a bit longer. I mean, no doubt Marr has managed to survive so long because he's strong and competent. But there is probably a bit of luck in there as well. I kind of imagine that before the war, most sith would be like... spending their youth fighting other sith for power, trying to prove themselves, raising as high as they can. And at some point they get as far as they'll ever get, and then with age will come a bit of wisdom and... realism. And then they hang around, hopefully being useful to the empire, probably going home at some point to have kids (the games talk about sith bloodlines. bloodlines = multiple generations. So sith parents are at least raising their kids to the point where those kids will, after growing up and becoming sith themselves, care enough to come back and continue the bloodline).

You kind of get a glimpse of this with other older sith as well, Darth Vowrawn for example. In my headcannon, I kind of feel like the war screwed over sith society big time in a few ways:

* The ratio of immature kids with magic powers to older seasoned sith lords with some perspective on life shifted massively, because the older sith lords who were the leaders at the time the war started have mostly been killed.

* Training any force sensitives including slaves (this was supposedly started to fix the war depleting sith numbers) and trying to convert Jedi didn't help. We went previously from children raised and groomed from childhood to wield power (sith bloodlines, etc.) to giving emotionally traumatized slaves magic powers and telling them they could do whatever the hell they want.

* The emperor himself being distant. Because there's nothing like the threat of a more powerful being to encourage cooperation and obedience to the common good.

The behavior of both Marr and Lana can be explained by their upbrining and environment, of course they reside on threats and fear and they won't hesitate to carry them out, but in comparison to the rest of the Siths, who are the true stereotype of Sith, they do not care so much about personal power but rather they are patriotic and seek a powerful (Imperial) society.

Also why I liked him? That is because he is not afraid to give respect when it is due as shown in the respectful bow towards Shatele. In fact in that scene out of the two Shatele is the one being unable to get past her past issues and behaves more than a Sith than Marr does.

Probably the term Imperial dark side Jedis would described them best IMO, but putting this 4 words together is contradictory to their definition.

PS: My favourite and funniest scene with my sage and Marr is during sn interrogation in SoR, side-stepping him allowing Shatele to conduct the interrogation leads to his reply "Don't push me further!" LOL. Here is the

PPS: The only reason that the Empire managed to recover after the end of the main chapters of PCs is due to the leadership of Marr, this starting during the RotHC.

You can like a character without liking them as a person. I have little tolerance for stupid 'I will bathe in your blood just cos!' evil, and Marr stands apart from most Sith characters.

In-character, my consular has a wary respect for him, but certainly doesn't like him.

I like Saresh as a character too - she creates conflict, and contrasts nicely with the image the Republic wants to have of itself.

In-character, my consular wants nothing to do with her, and has become somewhat disillusioned about the republic because of her leadership.

Yeah, but, that's the point of the Dark Side : Quick and easy power, at the price of your sanity.

Well yes hence why both lana and Marr are still evil Lana casually commits homicide and manipulates "allies" if it will benefit the sith and the empire and marr approves when you crash his ship into another ship. As long as it destroys the enemy does not matter who else is on it and who dies. Plus he spends his time converting jedi to the dark side according to Lachris

People like these characters because well they are sith with an actual head on their shoulders instead of the many sith we encounter that only care for murder and mayhem.

They actually have vision and character hence why they are my favorites along with Traya.

Well yes hence why both lana and Marr are still evil Lana casually commits homicide and manipulates "allies" if it will benefit the sith and the empire and marr approves when you crash his ship into another ship. As long as it destroys the enemy does not matter who else is on it and who dies. Plus he spends his time converting jedi to the dark side according to Lachris

 

People like these characters because well they are sith with an actual head on their shoulders instead of the many sith we encounter that only care for murder and mayhem.

 

They actually have vision and character hence why they are my favorites along with Traya.

Casually commits homicide?

Kill the spy in her employ? Not murder.

Kill the Zakuul who tried to kill her and the outlander, and who's also an enemy of the Empire and Republic and basically the force of the Zakuul Empire that's keeping her own Empire in chains.

This isn't to say she wouldn't commit murder, just that I can't recall a murder she's committed yet.

Er by definition its still murder there are always better options than killing someone and lana often does not take them you can dress up and justify it all you like its murder. God I am talking like a jedi now >_<

You don't tend to call killing those you're at war with, murder. If it was a civilian, maybe, but that was a warrior of the enemy.

The other was a spy of the enemy and seeing as how she was Minister of Sith Intelligence (the boss of the organization) having the spy killed just isn't murder.

It is still murder in the Zakuul's knight regard. Plus she is willing to let thousands of people die when she is in the position to help. With the zakuul knight she has beaten him and took control of the situation and choking him at the same time and she wishes to kill him. With out the direct intervention of the PC she will plant the lightsaber into his chest.

Remember that zakuul are in control of the galaxy and they are the law. The zakuul knights are essentially policemen and to the civilians she is essentially a terrorist. By law of the current galaxy its murder and after meeting his partner and senya they just seem like people trying to do their jobs.

Yes the imperial committed crimes but she allowed her anger of what he did to guide her decisions in demanding his death. There is a due process going by imperial or "sith" intelligence standards. I am sure if it was keeper he would of most likely taken him in for questioning and finding out what he knows of the republic and how he did it.

Still I am surprised to this day taking him prisoner was not an option bioware and their limited options. Still I can see how you make the argument that for the agent. Its not murder since she has the authority to execute him, her being in charge and also being sith. Its still a homocide one she did not even bat an eyelid at doing and had no reservations in doing.

For sith if killing someone serves their aim or fuels their rage they will do it and woe to you if you betray them and the sith teach you to show no mercy to those who stand against you. Honestly in my opinion with the Zakuul knight it felt like she was trying to prove a point more than anything, that they are "weak" and don't know how to use their rage and the whole no mercy bit as well.

Still she is not exactly a "nice" lady she is still, well evil like all sith.

Isn't this more of a chapter 1 spoiler? And I liked him because he was a total balance of cruelty and morality… he made a fine general for the Empire.

He's also not dead for me. I have him at level 46 Influence right now.