can we settle this peacefully thru duel and upload in youtube and be done with it

I've never tried to claim I'm a better player than him. Plus, sorc v. sin would hardly be a fair fight in a 1v1.

I wrote a big long post breaking this down, but then I scrolled down and the two of you already got the point: population precludes stacking teams of similar elo together. it would create the same barren queues that you see in group ranked and that you saw in the preseason of 8v8 ranked. everything after the first 2-3 weeks of the season is simply too small a population. I can prolly prove this with my experiences on SF, limited as they were. Please scroll down to the conclusion if you don't wanna read the evidence...

I'll give it one last shot to try and explain to you what is important to me. When I talk about quality matches, I mean put the 8 best players In the same game and make the fairest teams between those 8 players. Right now, this never happens. The system seems to put the worst players with the best players to help create more fairness (which is a good thing to aim for), but it absolutely does this with the cost of the quality of the match. .

this is a good point, but in my very limited solos this year (maybe 20 matches across 3 nights on two toons), there wasn't sufficient population to make a dent.

example:

days 1-2 (3rd? week of season)(IO mostly 242s unoptimized): was carried a couple matches (one involved dropping out of spawn into a dead zone!); was never the worst player on my team but only the best in a couple matches (win or lose). variety of players in queue was such that I did not face or team with the same players more than once. went 6-5 or 7-5. just barely over .500. the definition of neither carried nor carrying. pretty pathetic vis-a-vis s1-6 when I last played.

day 3 (1-2 weeks later) (Arsenal mostly 258s unoptimized): was carried when I won. was the anchor when I lost. gave up in embarrassment and incompetence once I was ferreted out and focused down in 4 consecutive matches. Almost the same 8 players in each match (5 or 6 of the 8 were the same each match).

~20-something games isn't really enough to draw sweeping conclusions from, but I can say that it was very apparent when the population was large and when it was small. When it's small, no manipulation of matchmaking is going to mean squat.

you either load up a match with 4 strong players against 4 weaker players, or you mix the teams up for more even matches that constantly frustrate the strong players (understandably so).

unfortunately, 4 strong players vs 4 strong players or 4 weaker players against similarly weaker players requires a significantly larger population than the former (current) matchmaking.

to double down on the unfortunately, the current system of handicapping stronger players with weaker players is the only system that works as intended with BOTH large and small populations. so if there's going to be one of the two systems in solo, it logically has to be this one.

Lmao @ all the ppl in this thread defending the old system bc it allowed them to collude with their wintrading friends and stack all the high elo players on 1 team to farm the players on the low elo team

Yeah this. ^

Also, epeens out and about too.

Regarding some of the posts above between individuals I just think It should never get personal just because someone gets rustled over a disagreement about what really is going on in PVP.

It's a personal experience and not everyone has the same experiences as others in this game, and not everyone views the same experiences the same way.

Everyone has a right to voice their own opinions on the forums too, whether or not it's stupid to others. Anyway, I just get annoyed when a player tells another player they are essentially a bad player.

For me, this doesn't prove anything, because even if true a person can be awful in PVP and still have a ton of knowledge and/or experience in PVP.

Yeah this. ^

 

Also, epeens out and about too.

 

Regarding some of the posts above between individuals I just think It should never get personal just because someone gets rustled over a disagreement about what really is going on in PVP.

 

It's a personal experience and not everyone has the same experiences as others in this game, and not everyone views the same experiences the same way.

 

Everyone has a right to voice their own opinions on the forums too, whether or not it's stupid to others. Anyway, I just get annoyed when a player tells another player they are essentially a bad player.

 

For me, this doesn't prove anything, because even if true a person can be awful in PVP and still have a ton of knowledge and/or experience in PVP.

To these top leaderboard dudes if you aren't having the same ranked experience as them just means you are a bad player... If you weren't, you'd right up there with them right ? right ?

As for the topic, I've said it many times that making changes to the way you get rated in this game could have consequences as a lot of people who want to get top 10 fast might quit as adding a point based system will mean that now you have to play a lot in order to get the rewards. I am not saying this is bad as anything is better than this cheat encouraging thing we have now.

Also, I really doubt anything of note is going to change as ranked is even less popular than Starfighter...

Yeah this. ^

 

Also, epeens out and about too.

 

Regarding some of the posts above between individuals I just think It should never get personal just because someone gets rustled over a disagreement about what really is going on in PVP.

 

It's a personal experience and not everyone has the same experiences as others in this game, and not everyone views the same experiences the same way.

 

Everyone has a right to voice their own opinions on the forums too, whether or not it's stupid to others. Anyway, I just get annoyed when a player tells another player they are essentially a bad player.

 

For me, this doesn't prove anything, because even if true a person can be awful in PVP and still have a ton of knowledge and/or experience in PVP.

I can only assume you're referring to my argument with Zurules. If you actually read the thread, you'd see that I never call him a bad player. In fact, he's a good player. He just isn't a "pvp expert" with genius-level strats like he claims to be. And when he tries to back up his bad arguments with "I'm a pvp genius," I felt compelled to clarify for people that that is not the case.

To these top leaderboard dudes if you aren't having the same ranked experience as them just means you are a bad player... If you weren't, you'd right up there with them right ? right ? .

Arguing with ranked PvPers:

Your rank is largely meaningless because of the sheer numbers of cheaters, queue manipulators, and random variables involved (like crap matchmaking due to low population).

What's your rating?

I dont do ranked much because I find it repetitive, boring, meaningless, and full of jerks

Oh so you're bad then!

Whether I'm good or not it doesnt invalidate my point...

But you just say stuff because you don't have a high rating!

I havent been trying because its repetitive, dull, meaningless, and full of jerks... but that doesn't invalidate the original point about low population and rating meaningfulness.

So you're bad and your opinion is worthless!

Ok sure, whatever, I'm done arguing with brick walls.

I can only assume you're referring to my argument with Zurules. If you actually read the thread, you'd see that I never call him a bad player. In fact, he's a good player. He just isn't a "pvp expert" with genius-level strats like he claims to be. And when he tries to back up his bad arguments with "I'm a pvp genius," I felt compelled to clarify for people that that is not the case.

It's irrelevant who I was referring to, I am just saying making a broad, disrespectful and insulting statement to other players is contentious and uncalled for.

Honestly, it's hard to gauge skill and even if a person sucks on one toon, they might be a giant on another. Also, that level of performance isn't always indicative of a player's actual amount of experience in PVP or their knowledge.

I just think a little class goes a long way. I also think sometimes people forget that we are all just a bunch of nerds no better or worse than the other. We are all in the same boat here, we ought to be less mean to each other.

just going to state flat out, on SF I have fought alongside both alex and zur. I'v also seen their opinions here on the forums. if I ever desired pvp advice I would not have think to ask alex, I would welcome his input. zur on the other hand, I might ask a side question about sins. maybe.

So you're saying alex measures up in this e-contest?

I can only assume you're referring to my argument with Zurules. If you actually read the thread, you'd see that I never call him a bad player. In fact, he's a good player. He just isn't a "pvp expert" with genius-level strats like he claims to be. And when he tries to back up his bad arguments with "I'm a pvp genius," I felt compelled to clarify for people that that is not the case.

I don't know where you get the concept of genius from, your the only one who has used that term here. My understanding of pvp in this game and strategies I choose to implement that give my team the best opportunity to win in pvp depending on the situation is my greatest strength. It is my most valuable asset when I pvp, not my mechanical skills. That Is what I claimed and i'm not sure how you managed to miss that. I'm no genius lol.

I said that I back up my opinion of myself with the successful results I've had in ranked. Those results are facts, not opinions. The only thing you use to defend your opinions are your own opinions. You have not provided any facts to defend your opinions. Facts are neutral, they aren't biased like all of our opinions. That is why we use facts to make our arguments or opinions stronger and have more weight behind them. Everyone has opinions and are entitled to them and that's fine. I just don't appreciate you trying to discredit my credibility without providing something other than your own opinion. Those type of arguments are worthless.

Also, epeens out and about too.

 

Regarding some of the posts above between individuals I just think It should never get personal just because someone gets rustled over a disagreement about what really is going on in PVP.

 

It's a personal experience and not everyone has the same experiences as others in this game, and not everyone views the same experiences the same way.

 

Everyone has a right to voice their own opinions on the forums too, whether or not it's stupid to others. Anyway, I just get annoyed when a player tells another player they are essentially a bad player.

 

For me, this doesn't prove anything, because even if true a person can be awful in PVP and still have a ton of knowledge and/or experience in PVP.

I agree with you 100% that someone can be very bad at pvp but be extremely knowledgeable at the same time with tons of experience and could be considered an expert in pvp. The only area I would disagree on some level is if he would claim to be knowledgable about the highest level of pvp. For me, you need some experience playing a the highest level to be able to talk about the highest level of play at any given time.

This is why at the time earlier in this thread, I wanted to find out who alex was ingame and what his rating was on his main to see if he had any experience playing at the highest level of ranked so that what he wanted to say would have some credibility. That was basically my issue with him and after finding out who he is ingame, I got my answer and he did not play at the highest level back in season 1. This is why I don't value his opinion when he wants to talk about the highest level of play back then.

So you're saying alex measures up in this e-contest?

my father had a saying. "If you have to tell people how good you are, you probably arent that good"

as for zurules performance vs alex in solos, alex can carry 2 man teams easily on dot sorc. hes does it a lot actually, zurules on the other hand, this is only my personal exp.. generaly wins when his team is 3-4 stacked with good players. we are in this case including him.

my father had a saying. "If you have to tell people how good you are, you probably arent that good"

 

as for zurules performance vs alex in solos, alex can carry 2 man teams easily on dot sorc. hes does it a lot actually, zurules on the other hand, this is only my personal exp.. generaly wins when his team is 3-4 stacked with good players. we are in this case including him.

I appreciate the support I hope they give rage juggs a buff someday for you.

And just want to clarify, I'm not claiming to be a better player than Zurules. I'm almost certainly not.

I agree with you 100% that someone can be very bad at pvp but be extremely knowledgeable at the same time with tons of experience and could be considered an expert in pvp. The only area I would disagree on some level is if he would claim to be knowledgable about the highest level of pvp. For me, you need some experience playing a the highest level to be able to talk about the highest level of play at any given time.

 

 

This is why at the time earlier in this thread, I wanted to find out who alex was ingame and what his rating was on his main to see if he had any experience playing at the highest level of ranked so that what he wanted to say would have some credibility. That was basically my issue with him and after finding out who he is ingame, I got my answer and he did not play at the highest level back in season 1. This is why I don't value his opinion when he wants to talk about the highest level of play back then.

You are a blatant example of what is wrong with these kids in ranked how they ruin the community and give it a bad name which sends a bad message to anyone who wants to try ranked... And you really wonder why they had to add mats and force people to que for it ? If there were 90 people in que, they wouldn't need to bother with things like that.

So this Alex guy has an opinion you don't agree with and then you actually bother to dig up who he is in game and what his rating was/ is and then you claim he shouldn't be talking about the "highest level " of PVP because he has no experience there.. In other words: "what's your rating, noob ? "

I can't take you seriously, sorry... Whatever your top rating might be means nothing. It doesn't make your point view more valid than his..

You are a blatant example of what is wrong with these kids in ranked how they ruin the community and give it a bad name which sends a bad message to anyone who wants to try ranked... And you really wonder why they had to add mats and force people to que for it ? If there were 90 people in que, they wouldn't need to bother with things like that.

 

So this Alex guy has an opinion you don't agree with and then you actually bother to dig up who he is in game and what his rating was/ is and then you claim he shouldn't be talking about the "highest level " of PVP because he has no experience there.. In other words: "what's your rating, noob ? "

 

I can't take you seriously, sorry... Whatever your top rating might be means nothing. It doesn't make your point view more valid than his..

That D%#$%*&%ss brought up rating like it equates to skill or knowledge?

If it did the people on the Top wouldn't be.

Solo ranked is a cesspool.

I don't do team ranked, so I won't speak to that, but solo ranked? Please...

Two weeks ago I had 3 matches on the same day that were 2 vs 4. As shocking as it may sound, I lost all three of those matches, You drop you lose elo anyways for sure, even under such extreme circumstances, might as well go out swinging, who knows maybe they are just there because they can't do Queen ***** HM.

No such luck.

Between the droppers, the dead beats, and the 216 rated gear [slight exaggeration], 70 token users and the dumpers being good guarantees you nothing and mere rating doesn't aid in killing the enemy team.

And the uneven roles, that's always a crowd pleaser.

I guess someone forgot to tell him that not everyone does ranked on the toon they may know of. Plenty of people do that for that very reason. Focus because people don't like someone isn't exactly unheard of, at least in solo ranked.

Speaking of no one in particular......ahem[just getting back from a 3 month ban so]..........no cure for stupidity, generally speaking.

My money's on Alex.

You are a blatant example of what is wrong with these kids in ranked how they ruin the community and give it a bad name which sends a bad message to anyone who wants to try ranked... And you really wonder why they had to add mats and force people to que for it ? If there were 90 people in que, they wouldn't need to bother with things like that.

 

So this Alex guy has an opinion you don't agree with and then you actually bother to dig up who he is in game and what his rating was/ is and then you claim he shouldn't be talking about the "highest level " of PVP because he has no experience there.. In other words: "what's your rating, noob ? "

 

I can't take you seriously, sorry... Whatever your top rating might be means nothing. It doesn't make your point view more valid than his..

What in the world is the point of your first paragraph here. There is nothing there that is relevant to my argument with alex. Because of that it, you seem to not understand any of the reasoning for my actions regarding trying to figure who alex was ingame.

Let me refresh your memory. AT the start of all of this, the point that we disagreed on was about being to compare to highest level of play from season 1 to the highest level of play from today. Without having played at the highest level in both seasons, without having that experience I don't believe that you cant truly know how to accurately make a good comparison between the two. If you want to compare the taste between an apple and orange, how can you make an accurate comparison if you never tried an orange yourself?

So because I did not know who he was and if he had played or not at the highest level back in season one. I wanted to find who he was out before I would consider his opinion valid from his own experience of playing at the highest level back then. He did not play at the highest level back then and therefore I do not believe his opinion between the comparison between of the two would be accurate.

Your "in other words" is your own interpretation, not mine. So if you think that your own interpretation is a problem, look at yourself. Do I think that anyone who got a rancor in season one is a "noob". of course not. As stated earlier the top 5% got that mount. Being in the Top 5% is good which is why I said earlier in one of my earlier posts, that alex should be proud of that fact that he is part of that top 5%.

What I believe and what I have been saying is because the gap between the 5% and the top was so large back in season one. If you were just inside the top 5% area, you would not have played a majority of your games vs the top players. This is why I don't believe his opinion regarding the top players back in season one has any weight. Its that simple. I had to repeat myself and provided very clear and simple examples to explain myself during the course of all the posts. When I read back most of your comments after my explanations, i'm baffled at how many people completely missed the point.

Genius is paraphrasing all of that babble.

 

 

 

More babble. Your success in ranked happened months and years ago. I'm providing first hand eye-witness testimony of your actual play in ranked; that's not just my opinion, that's admissible evidence. You are a decent sin/shadow player. Nothing more, nothing less. Nothing "great" about your play, and I've seen no evidence of your supposedly groundbreaking strategies. Your previous success in ranked doesn't prove those things to be true either.

 

 

 

All depends on what you mean by highest level. Even my ending rank (which was lower than my peak, obviously) was still in the top 5% of all ranked players in season 1. And again, the fundamental point is that I haven't made any misleading statements about my abilities or experience like you have, repeatedly. Still makes me chuckle to be honest.

i'm sorry to burst your bubble, but when someone watches someone play and in their head they try to decide if he is good or bad, for example. Guess what! Your in the process of developing your OPINION of that person in regards to his skill. So once again you try and use your OPINION to defend your arguments.

You are absolutely right that my results do not prove things for my argument. All it is, is an undisputable FACT that SUPPORTS my argument.

What misleading statements about my abilities or experience have I made? I flat out told everyone what I think about my game play. Even my own weaknesses like how I click my most important dcds, dont use target of target to interrupt or taunt. In regards to experience, I still dont know what your highest rating was in season one, but based on the fact you said: "Even my ending rank (which was lower than my peak, obviously) was STILL in the top 5% of all ranked players in season 1" I capitalized the "still" because that is what indicated to me a high probability that your end rating is closer to the 1500 mark. From that I can maybe guess your highest was around 1600-1650 ish? Who knows maybe one day you might actually share your highest earned so that you might be able to have something CLOSE to a fact. But even then it would need to be like a screenshot of it since the leaderboards don't show your highest earned. If I am right about your rating, then its guaranteed you did not play a majority of you're games with or against the 2k+ players.

Based on all the difficulty you are having to comprehension what feels to me to be very simple stuff, this only hardens my opinion of either you are actually in a sense "worse" than I thought originally (which is still above the vaste majority of players) or that you are a simple troll. I'm honestly completely split eveningly between which one it really is at this point.

Let me refresh your memory. AT the start of all of this, the point that we disagreed on was about being to compare to highest level of play from season 1 to the highest level of play from today.

That was just a minor point though. The actual point of this thread was whether the current version of solo ranked matchmaking is better than the previous one. You made very bad arguments in favor of the old matchmaking, which included inaccurate claims about your skill and how much better ranked was in the good old days.

What I believe and what I have been saying is because the gap between the 5% and the top was so large back in season one.

Simply plucked from your brain and presented as a fact. Ironic.

What misleading statements about my abilities or experience have I made? I flat out told everyone what I think about my game play. Even my own weaknesses like how I click my most important dcds, dont use target of target to interrupt or taunt. In regards to experience, I still dont know what your highest rating was in season one, but based on the fact you said: "Even my ending rank (which was lower than my peak, obviously) was STILL in the top 5% of all ranked players in season 1" I capitalized the "still" because that is what indicated to me a high probability that your end rating is closer to the 1500 mark. From that I can maybe guess your highest was around 1600-1650 ish? Who knows maybe one day you might actually share your highest earned so that you might be able to have something CLOSE to a fact. But even then it would need to be like a screenshot of it since the leaderboards don't show your highest earned. If I am right about your rating, then its guaranteed you did not play a majority of you're games with or against the 2k+ players.

 

 

Based on all the difficulty you are having to comprehension what feels to me to be very simple stuff, this only hardens my opinion of either you are actually in a sense "worse" than I thought originally (which is still above the vaste majority of players) or that you are a simple troll. I'm honestly completely split eveningly between which one it really is at this point.

Your entire argument is based on the fact that ranked play in season 1 at the "highest level" was fundamentally different from ranked play at a level slightly lower than the highest level. It's just nonsense to make yourself feel special. Not much to see here.

That was just a minor point though. The actual point of this thread was whether the current version of solo ranked matchmaking is better than the previous one. You made very bad arguments in favor of the old matchmaking, which included inaccurate claims about your skill and how much better ranked was in the good old days.

 

 

 

Simply plucked from your brain and presented as a fact. Ironic.

 

 

 

Your entire argument is based on the fact that ranked play in season 1 at the "highest level" was fundamentally different from ranked play at a level slightly lower than the highest level. It's just nonsense to make yourself feel special. Not much to see here.

The reasons why I prefer the old system was made extremely clear in my previous posts. I provided you with a simple example to explain what I consider to be a high quality match (which are the matches I actually have a chance to truly enjoy) and that it is the opportunity to have those matches are why I queued up for ranked. I then also explained once again with a clear example why I think the old system was better because it provided me with better chances of obtaining a high quality match compared to the current system in which I have had ZERO high quality games.

If you cannot understand the links between how I only play ranked for the possibility of having a high quality match and that with the current system it seems impossible for me to get a high quality match but the old system I had some high quality matches, and that I prefer the rank system that actually had a chance of getting the type of game I find fun.

So once again here all you are doing is using your own opinion to attack my opinion. You also have an act for putting your words into my mouth and because you have done this multiple times now towards me, your lack of basic respect is becoming an issue. I never said that the gap between the top 5% and the top was a fact. That is my opinion based on the reasoning that those near the 5% didn't play a majority of their games vs the 2k+ players because there were plenty of players in the queue with ratings between the 5% and the 2k+ and since the queue put the best players with each other, you would not play many games with ppl who had ratings from the 2k+ if your rating was near the 1500-1600s. This is still not a fact just incase you might somehow get that idea in your head again...

The only area I would disagree on some level is if he would claim to be knowledgable about the highest level of pvp.

Well, I agree with this too.

I don't wade into ranked discussions because there's far more I can learn in it than teach. So I keep my mouth shut when it comes to class strengths, class balance etc. in ranked.

I have played ranked multiple different seasons though, and I am quite familiar with the meta itself.

My early past ignorance was the thought that regs PVP mostly equated to ranked PVP, and it wasn't until I did ranked to realize just how different in performance one class could be in both game modes.

I just don't enter those discussions, even now with more experience and after playing ranked there's far more better ranked players than me with tons more experience that can answer questions and discuss the details of different classes in how they perform in ranked. (I also only run maybe 3 classes through ranked, too.)

The reasons why I prefer the old system was made extremely clear in my previous posts. I provided you with a simple example to explain what I consider to be a high quality match (which are the matches I actually have a chance to truly enjoy) and that it is the opportunity to have those matches are why I queued up for ranked. I then also explained once again with a clear example why I think the old system was better because it provided me with better chances of obtaining a high quality match compared to the current system in which I have had ZERO high quality games.

 

If you cannot understand the links between how I only play ranked for the possibility of having a high quality match and that with the current system it seems impossible for me to get a high quality match but the old system I had some high quality matches, and that I prefer the rank system that actually had a chance of getting the type of game I find fun.

 

I already explained to you that the reason you thought those games were of higher quality was because your team was getting stacked in your favor and you were winning more often. Now that teams are more fairly balanced and you can't steamroll people constantly, you feel that the matches are of "lower quality."

It's important that people understand that the matchmaker is now making fundamentally more balanced matches than previously. Your feelings about which led to "higher quality matches" is just your own delusion.