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Help needed with HM Writhing Horror


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To clarify, are you suggesting the 2 swap stat only until the second male...

Or doing the 2 on boss whole time 2 on 2 adds and male whole time?

 

The strat I laid out is only for the initial pull and then the first Jealous Male. After that, just revert back to doing whatever it is you are doing now.

 

The "2 on boss, 2 on adds" isn't really what I was getting at though. Not least because I can't know what your raid composition is. Mainly it's a "mDPS on the boss/jealous male, rDPS on the small adds as soon as they arrive at the red circle". I only mentioned 2+ ranged DPS on the adds - just in case your raid group was largely melee. *Someone* needs to attack the small adds, but if you have ranged people - it usually only needs 2 (in an 8man group) to AoE the small adds down.

 

The sequence of events would be something like this :-

 

 

  • Tank-A pull the Boss.
  • When Tank-A gets 2x stacks of incubation, Tank-B takes the boss. This is very early in the fight.
  • Tank-A moves towards the ranged DPS and when the 2x incubations stacks spawn 2x add - the ranged DPS kill them and return to the boss. mDPS could help, but then why bother?
  • After a while, a Jealous Male and a red circle will spawn. Ranged DPS kill the Jealous. The red circle is ignored.
  • When Tank-B reaches 9 stacks of the incubation debuff. Do a tank swap.
  • Almost immediately afterwards, the 2nd Jealous Male and associated circle spawn. Tank-B picks up the Jealous.
  • Your mDPS swap onto the Jealous too. rDPS can stay on the boss. That's up to you**.
  • Someone goes to stand near the red circle and wait for the 9x stacks of incubation on Tank-B to trigger. At which point the person next to the red circle goes and stands in it - attracting the adds that spawned. When the small adds reach the circle, the rDPS stop attacking the boss and AoE down the small adds.

 

After this, everything continues as normal. Tank swaps happen each time a new Jealous Male spawns.

 

** -- We split our rDPS and mDPS according to target. With mDPS focusing on the 2nd, 3rd and potentially 4th Jealous Males. rDPS killing the 1st Jealous Male only and all small adds when they reach the red circles. If you have lots of mDPS or lots of rDPS, then my description is only a guide, not an absolute.

 

Just because we do it that way doesn't mean you have to. If you want mDPS to attack the small adds in the circle - fine. If you want rDPS to attack the Jealous - also fine.

 

We do it this way so that people are switching targets less and mDPS aren't spending more time than necessary running around. Reducing time lost target switching and moving are both ways to increase overall DPS.

 

As someone else points out, this only helps with this boss and only if you're consistently struggling with the enrage. There will come a point where you no longer need to do the boss this way and you can go back to doing "normal" tank swaps whenever a Jealous Male spawns. Not least, because this way is clunky and you'll need a higher level of DPS to kill the other bosses in TFB HM anyway.

 

I'm intrigued by the 1800+ DPS mentioned. That's not unreasonable given the amount of AoE involved. However, just in case it's linked to why you are hitting the enrage timer... I'll point out that you should only ever be getting the small adds to AoE down while a red circle is present. If you are getting adds to AoE more often, then it's likely you are doing tank swaps (or the tank is losing aggro/dying) too often.

 

Hope that clears up my advice and why it might work for you.

 

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Edited by Woetoo
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If you are hitting an enrage, no matter which fight, it is always a DPS issue. Dummy DPS really doesn't help you here. A full compliment of logs will enable us to help you. But there are a few things I can add that help trouble shoot these issues:

 

1. Since you are hitting the enrage (5:45) this means you will have time to use Inspiration twice. Are you? In addition, are all 4 DPS in the same group so they all benefit from it?

 

2. Are all DPS using their adrenals on cooldowns (you'll be able to use them twice)?

 

3. Are all DPS using their click power relic and personal cooldowns on cooldown?

 

4. Is the non-active tank (once male is down, back on boss) focusing on DPS (stim switch if biochem, stance change)?

 

5. Are the DPS only giving the tank a couple second lead? I know some groups give upwards of 5-7 seconds, and that's too much of a DPS loss.

 

Once again, logs will help more than anything else. But it defiinately sounds like you have a significant DPS issue.

 

6. Are you wasting as little time possible on the small adds? (aka letting your good AoE classes kill them)

Ex:

BH - Explosive Dart -> Death From Above -> go kill Jealous Male

Sorc - Force Storm 'till they die (+ procced Chain Lightning or Death Field) -> JM

Sin - (Death Field ->) JM

Agent - Orbital Strike (-> Plasma Probe) -> JM

Warrior -> JM

 

Healers could use a single AoE as well if they can afford it and your group has almost no AoE DPS.

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thanks for your reply.

 

At 15% we are still working through the last bit of the third male and adds. The WH turns red and hard enrages.

This is confirmed by the buff in red "enrage 200% damage increase.

Again the loss is the dps somehow, but where? It's not gear.

Fine tuning and advanced mechanics me thinks.

 

Are you at 15% during the 3rd, or 4th Jealous Male? If 3rd, then you actually have too much DPS, as I recall the hard enrage will not happen until after the 4th Jealous Male spawns (5:45 into fight). (I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong)

If you are close to 15% before the 3rd JM spawns then stop DPS until he is down then go all out on the boss during his soft enrage/spawning champion adds and hope you can keep enough ppl up to finish off the adds.

If you are getting a 4th JM spawn then, yes, there does need to be more DPS.

Edited by BBTheHawk
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well then you are hitting the enrage. i would suggest putting everyone in MoX just to see what's going on and then having your top dps go in red circle after all other dps and top dps stays on boss no matter what. let your other 3 handle adds and jealous males. other than that are they keeping their debuffs up on the boss at all times? not using the right rotations is probably the only other thing it could be unless they just haven't optimized their gear yet. i remember with my sentinel i was trying to get him in BH as quick as possible and ended up with some pretty crappy stats until i started min/maxing. does your dps have to much acc / crit not enough power / surge? just something else to check.

 

Thanks again for all the good suggestions.

We will try 3 and 1 split the whole time and see how it goes.

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The strat I laid out is only for the initial pull and then the first Jealous Male. After that, just revert back to doing whatever it is you are doing now.

 

The "2 on boss, 2 on adds" isn't really what I was getting at though. Not least because I can't know what your raid composition is. Mainly it's a "mDPS on the boss/jealous male, rDPS on the small adds as soon as they arrive at the red circle". I only mentioned 2+ ranged DPS on the adds - just in case your raid group was largely melee. *Someone* needs to attack the small adds, but if you have ranged people - it usually only needs 2 (in an 8man group) to AoE the small adds down.

 

The sequence of events would be something like this :-

 

 

  • Tank-A pull the Boss.
  • When Tank-A gets 2x stacks of incubation, Tank-B takes the boss. This is very early in the fight.
  • Tank-A moves towards the ranged DPS and when the 2x incubations stacks spawn 2x add - the ranged DPS kill them and return to the boss. mDPS could help, but then why bother?
  • After a while, a Jealous Male and a red circle will spawn. Ranged DPS kill the Jealous. The red circle is ignored.
  • When Tank-B reaches 9 stacks of the incubation debuff. Do a tank swap.
  • Almost immediately afterwards, the 2nd Jealous Male and associated circle spawn. Tank-B picks up the Jealous.
  • Your mDPS swap onto the Jealous too. rDPS can stay on the boss. That's up to you**.
  • Someone goes to stand near the red circle and wait for the 9x stacks of incubation on Tank-B to trigger. At which point the person next to the red circle goes and stands in it - attracting the adds that spawned. When the small adds reach the circle, the rDPS stop attacking the boss and AoE down the small adds.

 

After this, everything continues as normal. Tank swaps happen each time a new Jealous Male spawns.

 

** -- We split our rDPS and mDPS according to target. With mDPS focusing on the 2nd, 3rd and potentially 4th Jealous Males. rDPS killing the 1st Jealous Male only and all small adds when they reach the red circles. If you have lots of mDPS or lots of rDPS, then my description is only a guide, not an absolute.

 

Just because we do it that way doesn't mean you have to. If you want mDPS to attack the small adds in the circle - fine. If you want rDPS to attack the Jealous - also fine.

 

We do it this way so that people are switching targets less and mDPS aren't spending more time than necessary running around. Reducing time lost target switching and moving are both ways to increase overall DPS.

 

As someone else points out, this only helps with this boss and only if you're consistently struggling with the enrage. There will come a point where you no longer need to do the boss this way and you can go back to doing "normal" tank swaps whenever a Jealous Male spawns. Not least, because this way is clunky and you'll need a higher level of DPS to kill the other bosses in TFB HM anyway.

 

I'm intrigued by the 1800+ DPS mentioned. That's not unreasonable given the amount of AoE involved. However, just in case it's linked to why you are hitting the enrage timer... I'll point out that you should only ever be getting the small adds to AoE down while a red circle is present. If you are getting adds to AoE more often, then it's likely you are doing tank swaps (or the tank is losing aggro/dying) too often.

 

Hope that clears up my advice and why it might work for you.

 

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Thanks again for all the help. I'll will pass it by the team and maybe have a few goes a ***.

 

Is it possible to do the normal strat, but than go 2mdps on male and 2rdps on adds for all switches?

would that be better?

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6. Are you wasting as little time possible on the small adds? (aka letting your good AoE classes kill them)

Ex:

BH - Explosive Dart -> Death From Above -> go kill Jealous Male

Sorc - Force Storm 'till they die (+ procced Chain Lightning or Death Field) -> JM

Sin - (Death Field ->) JM

Agent - Orbital Strike (-> Plasma Probe) -> JM

Warrior -> JM

 

Healers could use a single AoE as well if they can afford it and your group has almost no AoE DPS.

 

Are you saying rdps on adds and mdps on male for all rotations?

what does your group do as a strat?

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Are you at 15% during the 3rd, or 4th Jealous Male? If 3rd, then you actually have too much DPS, as I recall the hard enrage will not happen until after the 4th Jealous Male spawns (5:45 into fight). (I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong)

If you are close to 15% before the 3rd JM spawns then stop DPS until he is down then go all out on the boss during his soft enrage/spawning champion adds and hope you can keep enough ppl up to finish off the adds.

If you are getting a 4th JM spawn then, yes, there does need to be more DPS.

 

thanks again for the reply, i think i said it wrong.

 

We are hitting the hard enreage at 12-15% which usually happens 30 seconds or so after the 4th male (5:15 for male).

Here is how our scenario is playing out. 4th male spawns and boss is at 20% or so (5:15), we get him to 15% while still trying to finish off the male and adds and he enrages with all adds and male still up at 5:45.

Group wipes.

 

My main question is what strat for male and add downing is most efficient and gives most time on boss?

 

4 on adds 4 on male? 2 on adds 2 on male?

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Is it possible to do the normal strat, but than go 2mdps on male and 2rdps on adds for all switches?

would that be better?

 

"Better" is subjective. But imo, yes.

It's even possible with 1x mDPS and 3x rDPS. As long as the Jealous Male dies before the next one spawns.

 

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Just for the conversation sake.

 

we are running,

 

BH tank

Jugg tank

Jugg dps

Merauder dps

BH dps

Sorc dps

 

Honestly, with this setup I'm surprise you're still at around 20% when the 4th male spawns as Jugg and Marauder do some absolutely insane DPS.

 

I don't think that it's a strat issue as you manage to go through all the phases., its just not enough DPS. Curious though, at the beginning of th encounter does your Jugg or Marauder ever pulled aggro from the tank...as although shouldn't., if they both are going all out then its very hard for the tank to keep aggro at the beginning without taunt back or threat dump from them.

Edited by Caeduz
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Just for the conversation sake.

 

we are running,

 

BH tank

Jugg tank

Jugg dps

Merauder dps

BH dps

Sorc dps

 

Your BH (merc or ptech) should have some good aoe for the adds.

 

Sorc will have good aoe.

 

If jugg is rage he will have good aoe, but it requires a lot of movement in this case. Jugg and marauder should toss a smash or whatever at the adds though if its convenient.

 

 

Also when I tank this on my ptech, I like to drop an explosive dart and DFA on the little guys. Does appreciable damage to groups.

 

Healers probably won't be able to help out much here as there's a decent amount of damage going out when all the adds are up.

 

 

I just really think something else is going on here if the 1800 DPS number is real as you said. Just seems off.

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My main question is what strat for male and add downing is most efficient and gives most time on boss?

 

4 on adds 4 on male? 2 on adds 2 on male?

 

Try 4 on little adds, after little adds are down put 2 rDPS (sorc, bh) on male, 2 mDPS (mara, jugg) on WH. I'm assuming here that your BH dps is merc. Also, this is assuming that everyone knows the best spec and rotation for raid dps. You really shouldn't have to do anything special on the tank swaps. If you're still hitting enrage then your dps needs to do some research on their dps rotations, maybe change trees.

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What specs are your dps running? The one spec I know you need to have is your merc be arsenal.

 

What my guild does for 8 man runs is this. We have 2 maras: one running Anni and the other (me) running rage or carnage, one Sin in deception spec, and one sniper in Lethal Engineer. We have our Sin take the first pool while me and the sniper take the adds. Since our Sin uses blackout or what ever his stealth is called in his rotation, he also takes the second pool since vanishing removes the debuff. Me and the sniper take the second group of ads again. For the 3rd group, the sniper stands in the puddle and me and him take the adds. Really these adds die so fast that the sniper or Sin could probably solo them during their turn in the puddle. We kill the Horror just after the 3rd male and that's only because our dps has him down so low that we have to wait so we don't get the male and the soft enrage at the same time. I'm pulling well over 2k dps on this fight in carnage when I just stay on the boss and 2.3 when I'm rage and taking care of the adds. The adds don't sound like its your problem; it just sounds like really bad dps. Our Sin and Sniper are at anywhere from 1.8-2k on this fight and our Anni Mara is at 2.1 k (all these numbers are rough estimates based off other fights because I'm on my phone at work and can't ask em. But it's numbers they usually have in MoX and Granted were all in BiS 61/63's but we get lazy on this fight).

 

As for the Jealous Male; the off tank pulls him over to the pool and we AoE him with the adds then burn off what little health he has left.

 

This fight is by far the joke of TfB. If your dps can't beat this, then you guys are going to have massive issues on everything else in that Operation. Best of luck to you guys and I hope you get it down

Edited by USCG_Davis
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A couple tips that might hep you eek out a little more DPS:

1. As others have mentioned, try keeping mDPS on the boss at all times, let your rDPS take care of the adds and JM. This cuts down on your mDPS downtime since they don't have to switch targets.

 

2. Try bringing the JM over near the red pool (facing away) so that he gets smacked by AoE.

 

3. NOTE: never tried this part, so it's theoretical - After the adds are dead, drag the JM over near the boss and continue AoE. This can get a little tricky depending on the boss's location due to JM's knockback, but it should hypothetically allow for more DPS on the boss since you're not taking the time to focus fire the male. As long as the male is dead before the next pool there's no reason to take DPS from the boss to burn the male.

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3. NOTE: never tried this part, so it's theoretical - After the adds are dead, drag the JM over near the boss and continue AoE. This can get a little tricky depending on the boss's location due to JM's knockback, but it should hypothetically allow for more DPS on the boss since you're not taking the time to focus fire the male. As long as the male is dead before the next pool there's no reason to take DPS from the boss to burn the male.

 

You probably don't want to do this.

 

The Jealous Male goes into a frenzy whenever he it within a certain distance of the boss. In effect, his damage increases. You should keep the Jealous away from the boss at all times. Though taking him near the red pools is a good idea (as long as the red pool isn't near the boss's current or "next" position).

 

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what we have done on this fight is left our sentinel on Withering Horror all the way through the fight. We have two range dps, sage & commando, they aoe down the little adds in the blood pool. We put one healer in the pool first, then we put our second healer in the pool. Our second Melee DPS(Shadow) waits on the boss until the tank has the Male in place near the healer in the blood pool. After that, its a a rinse and repeat. We do not do tank swaps until the mails spawn, loss of threat in this fight for any reason causes additional adds to spawn so you need your highest dps'ng tank to start off the fight and use power adrenals, etc. Ours even puts his power relic on, clicks it, then swaps back to his defense stat relic and runs into the fight. We are nearly BiS 63 now, but we can almost beat him before the third pool, we stop dps on him to finish third pool to avoid Twisted Spawn at 13%

 

This video is from our Gunnery Commando's perspective. Maybe it will help.

 

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Thank you for your reply.

Indeed the issue is DPS output, but I want to know how.

The answer is yes to all except the stim/stance switch which I will employ since both tanks are biochem.

I wish I knew where our loss was, it would be so easy to figure out.

 

Another thing you could do is video the entire fight, and run MOX at the same time to analyze it more.

Upload the video link here so we can offer more constructive criticism to help you down it.

Parses are very helpful when trying to beat an Ops boss, and it will also help the ones that need to do more dps or heals or whatever. ;)

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