Irrelevant argument. Who cares if what you can and can't do in WoW? SWTOR's system is a bit different. Advanced classes are not completely analogous to other game's classes. They share more in common than some classes in WoW's different specs within a class do in some cases.

 

On the other hand, a lot of other games don't restrict people to a limited number of roles like these games do, allowing you to build whatever focus you wish.

It's not an irrelevant argument. Your class is your class. Your AC is your class. Your basic class is not your class. Changing class is changing class, whether those two classes have a little more in common than two other classes or not.

I find it funny that the only argument against this that people have is "I don't want you to change your advanced class."

 

If there were objections based on serious conflicts like those caused by faction, gender, or base class changes, that would be one thing but I've yet to see any "real" argument for why this shouldn't be something to be implemented.

How about "I don't want you to be able to change your advanced class because healing pugs with dps-geared 'tanks' is bad enough without them being in their leftover other-AC armour?"

Someone a few pages ago made a good point of allowing it up to a certain level. This I am fine with...hit level 30 and realize you want to do the other AC instead. Lots of time to learn your class before 55. But allowing someone to change their class as significantly as an AC swap can be is going to cause a lot of frustration for those of us who don't want to do guild run flashpoints/operations all the time because we like to help the community.

There are legitimate reasons for not wanting an AC swap.

Why not make it a legacy unlock?

Example: If you have a 50 Sage and a 50 Assassin you can trade ACs. This would allow people to change ACs, but you would have to learn how to play both beforehand.

For me personally, this would allow me to "fix" my flawed ( all my tanks are Imps, all my healers are Pubs) alt plan.

EDIT

How about "I don't want you to be able to change your advanced class because healing pugs with dps-geared 'tanks' is bad enough without them being in their leftover other-AC armour?"

Very good point. However, that can just as easily be a problem now with someone switching from a dps spec to a tank spec.

Once again that quote comes up, as proof that class changes are definitely coming, despite the fact that nowhere in that quote do they say that class changes are definitely coming. The term was not even "probably", it was "likely". You can argue that these two are the synonymous, but they aren't really.

 

I'm still not convinced that the devs are really even considering adding class changes. I think the devs know that if they come out and state definitely for one side or the other, that it will likely cost them significant subs and income, as the "losing" side will likely see many people leave the game. There are those that feel strongly enough against class changes that if the devs allow them, those players will walk away, never to return or spend another cent on this game. The opposite is also true. There are those who are so opposed to the effort required to level another character, that if they cannot swap AC's they will simply stop playing, as their AC has been nerfed, the other AC buffed or simply because they chose the easy mode leveling and now cannot fill their desired end game role.

I think this is fair. Though the quote definitely INFERS that they are moving in that direction, it is not ironclad IMO, and anything could change between now and then.

So I think it's reasonable to say "we will see when we will see".

Instead of just saying "No, not going to happen ever" or things like "the only reason people want to do this....." why don't you guys actually try sharing your concerns instead.

 

I for one am curious as to why this would be such a seriously bad thing to add to the game. I mean it looks like it's coming...just like F2P, market, moddable gear, adaptable gear, appearance kiosk...dyes....all of the things that folks were saying the same things about.

 

That doesn't mean that your concerns are not important or reputable. I just want to know what they are.

There have been many people who have expressed concerns about being grouped with players who just switched AC's and not having the experience or proper gear for their newly chosen role, for starters.

Maybe those who wish to be able to change class could provide a valid reason for allowing class changes.

This is only my opinion, but I do not consider "my AC got nerfed, or the other AC got buffed, and I want to be the OP AC", "I want to level easy mode and switch at ma level to my chosen end game AC" or "I spent all this real money for CM items for my character" to be valid reasons. The CM argument would have been more valid prior to 2.1, but with the advent of the collections interface, and the ability to make all those CM items account wide, that argument becomes moot, IMO.

they have said more then once that AC changes will NEVER happen.

Your AC is your class... what you want is the EXACT same as someone in wow saying they want to go from a priest to a monk.

You pick your story at level 1 you pick your class at level 10 that is how this game is. A Mercenary has little in common with a Powertech other then the story, infact a powertech has more mechanics in common with a jugg then they do with a mercenary.

Now let this post die... all it is doing is proving that most of the playerbase is stupid enough t think that ACs are not your class and they simply want a new toon without doing anything.

This. Why do people think it's okay to switch classes? They really screwed it up when they made the AC's. I knew this would happen. It was however, the only way to make sure each class had it's own story and you could play it from two perspectives.

Not this. Why do people think it's not OK to switch advanced classes? What's it to you what others do?

Now let this post die

Oh, well, since you put it that way, how can people not comply?

There are legitimate reasons for not wanting an AC swap.

There are certainly legit reasons for not wanting it, but there are none, other than technical ones, for not allowing it.

There have been many people who have expressed concerns about being grouped with players who just switched AC's and not having the experience or proper gear for their newly chosen role, for starters.

 

Maybe those who wish to be able to change class could provide a valid reason for allowing class changes.

 

This is only my opinion, but I do not consider "my AC got nerfed, or the other AC got buffed, and I want to be the OP AC", "I want to level easy mode and switch at ma level to my chosen end game AC" or "I spent all this real money for CM items for my character" to be valid reasons. The CM argument would have been more valid prior to 2.1, but with the advent of the collections interface, and the ability to make all those CM items account wide, that argument becomes moot, IMO.

Ok, this is a good point, worried that folks will not know how to properly play their class. That sounds to me like a reputable against.

Here is what I consider a reputable for. If people are unhappy with a class they should be able to change to another.

The reason this is reputable is almost every class is disappointing in some way at level 50. Almost all of them...Scoundrels, Mercenaries, Vanguards, Sages, Operatives, Assassins....many have quirks and weakness that do not manifest themselves until you hit end game and start raiding.

These flaws or clunky/awkward mechanics are not prevalent around level 30, but start revealing themselves around level 45.

So...the classes are poorly designed post level 40 IMO. And this is the reason to allow the change. It's either that or you have to reroll JUST so you can make a different AC choice.

So that's my argument for. And I think the argument against I noted is a good one.

Any others?

Not this. Why do people think it's not OK to switch advanced classes? What's it to you what others do?

 

 

Oh, well, since you put it that way, how can people not comply?

 

 

There are certainly legit reasons for not wanting it, but there are none, other than technical ones, for not allowing it.

you go play a powertech then you play a mercenary... the class have NOTHING in common other then their story the play style is completely difference. There is no reason to ever allow an AC swap other then crybaby little kid wants a free max level toon without earning it. All the ACs are so very different they are not close to the same class, everyone who has placed both options of any base class knows this.

Not this. Why do people think it's not OK to switch advanced classes? What's it to you what others do?

"I want it and it doesn't affect you, so I should be allowed to have it"? I've never heard that one before. Oh, wait...

they have said more then once that AC changes will NEVER happen.

And they have said more recently something different. They changed their minds. You might have to find a way to be at peace with that fact. Pretending it's not true is not going to make it so.

Your AC is your class... what you want is the EXACT same as someone in wow saying they want to go from a priest to a monk.

No it's not. Again, this is a silly contention IMO. It is akin to someone in wow saying they want to go from a shadow priest to a holy priest. It is your advanced spec...it just so happens to have 2 distinct branches, but it is still not the class. It is class advanced spec. Your class remains the same.

You pick your story at level 1 you pick your class at level 10 that is how this game is. A Mercenary has little in common with a Powertech other then the story, infact a powertech has more mechanics in common with a jugg then they do with a mercenary.

The game has changed dramatically from where it once was. This is a relic of the original devs very narrow stubborn artistic view which almost sunk this game. Perhaps this needs to go as well.

Now let this post die... all it is doing is proving that most of the playerbase is stupid enough t think that ACs are not your class and they simply want a new toon without doing anything.

Actually the thread is furthering the discussion. All YOU seem to be doing with this comment is is posting diatribe in an attempt to try and dissuade community members from fighting for this because you do not wish to see it happen.

If the recent changes to the game do not prove this predatory tactic no longer works here, than nothing will.

Well If this were to happen we would see a great reduction with PVP players crying about OP classes - because everyone would just switch to said OP class on the fly. That and It would just cause more problems in my opinion.For a game that's supposed to be based off choice and consequences, cause and effect - there sure are a lot of requests to implement Do overs.

I personally think it would kill the game. All one would need is 2 toons per account. For example.. agent could be every role short of tank and Warrior could swap from Dps or tank . That's a huge short cut to me and seems like BW would be shooting themselves in the foot if this were implemented. Isn't the point to keep people playing as long as possible?

you go play a powertech then you play a mercenary... the class have NOTHING in common other then their story the play style is completely difference. There is no reason to ever allow an AC swap other then crybaby little kid wants a free max level toon without earning it. All the ACs are so very different they are not close to the same class, everyone who has placed both options of any base class knows this.

Your doing it again. Are you incapable of presenting a point without using predatory rhetoric?

"I want it and it doesn't affect you, so I should be allowed to have it"? I've never heard that one before. Oh, wait...

You've heard it 100 times before and you'll hear it 100 times again every time someone whines about some game feature or potential game feature which has no affect on them or their characters.

you go play a powertech then you play a mercenary... the class have NOTHING in common other then their story the play style is completely difference. There is no reason to ever allow an AC swap other then crybaby little kid wants a free max level toon without earning it. All the ACs are so very different they are not close to the same class, everyone who has placed both options of any base class knows this.

Again, so what? You write words, but the meaning behind them is "Waa, waa, people shouldn't be allowed to do this 'cause I said so!"

all it is doing is proving that most of the playerbase is stupid enough t think that ACs are not your class and they simply want a new toon without doing anything.

The forum posters only represent a tiny fraction of the playerbase. It is a very vocal and often obnoxious fraction, but that doesn't mean it's representative of all players everywhere or even most of them.

Well If this were to happen we would see a great reduction with PVP players crying about OP classes - because everyone would just switch to said OP class on the fly. That and It would just cause more problems in my opinion.For a game that's supposed to be based off choice and consequences, cause and effect - there sure are a lot of requests to implement Do overs.

 

I personally think it would kill the game. All one would need is 2 toons per account. For example.. agent could be every role short of tank and Warrior could swap from Dps or tank . That's a huge short cut to me and seems like BW would be shooting themselves in the foot if this were implemented. Isn't the point to keep people playing as long as possible?

The only problem I see with this argument is that you have to ignore the fact that players can roll and level a different class right now. So they would already be the OP class at this moment and would have their alts in storage.

It makes it EASIER to switch but the problem still exists with switching or not.

Your second point however is another valid argument against...no more need for alts, people will be less invested and play less perhaps. That a good argument against IMO.

And they have said more recently something different. They changed their minds. You might have to find a way to be at peace with that fact. Pretending it's not true is not going to make it so.

We have no evidence that they changed their minds. We have a quote that could be an indication that they changed their minds, or could be nothing more than an attempt to placate those who want class changes.

No it's not. Again, this is a silly contention IMO. It is akin to someone in wow saying they want to go from a shadow priest to a holy priest. It is your advanced spec...it just so happens to have 2 distinct branches, but it is still not the class. It is class advanced spec. Your class remains the same.

Your basic class is not your class. Look at your guild roster. Do you see any players with their class listed as bounty hunter-mercenary or bounty hunter-powertech? No. The classes are mercenary and powertech. The only characters who show a class of bounty hunter would be those who have not yet chosen an AC.

You want to say it is akin to changing from a shadow priest to a holy priest? Can a shadow priest stealth like an assassin can? Is a shadow priest ranged or more melee oriented in terms of DPS? Going from an assassin to a sorcerer would be more akin to changing from a rogue to a priest, than from a shadow priest to a holy priest.

You want to say it is akin to changing from a shadow priest to a holy priest? Can a shadow priest stealth like an assassin can? Is a shadow priest ranged or more melee oriented in terms of DPS? Going from an assassin to a sorcerer would be more akin to changing from a rogue to a priest, than from a shadow priest to a holy priest.

You and others keep trotting out that kind of retort as if it's supposed to carry some weight. If all you got is to repeat the same old song, save us all the bother.

they have said more then once that AC changes will NEVER happen.

 

Your AC is your class... what you want is the EXACT same as someone in wow saying they want to go from a priest to a monk.

 

You pick your story at level 1 you pick your class at level 10 that is how this game is. A Mercenary has little in common with a Powertech other then the story, infact a powertech has more mechanics in common with a jugg then they do with a mercenary.

 

 

Now let this post die... all it is doing is proving that most of the playerbase is stupid enough t think that ACs are not your class and they simply want a new toon without doing anything.

They also said there'd be more class stories. Obviously, things change.

We have no evidence that they changed their minds. We have a quote that could be an indication that they changed their minds, or could be nothing more than an attempt to placate those who want class changes.

That is evidence....but, if I was being reasonable (as I have already said in prior posts) this is not rock solid evidence, no...your absolutely right IMO. It could be lip service. And who knows when, if ever we would see it..

But you have to admit. It is a different tune, and that is significant.

Your basic class is not your class. Look at your guild roster. Do you see any players with their class listed as bounty hunter-mercenary or bounty hunter-powertech? No. The classes are mercenary and powertech. The only characters who show a class of bounty hunter would be those who have not yet chosen an AC.

I can't argue against the point that it was INTENDED to be another class by design...heck, there are two sith and two jedi classes which is just as ridiculous IMO.

The problem is that they are poorly designed IMO. and therefore are not distinctive enough to classify as different classes. The best they can be seen as is different specializations.

You really cant compare A Sorc and a Assasin to a Monk and a Warlock. You could, however compare them to a Holy priest and a Shadow priest. And that is why I have the opinion that I do.

Which does not mean yours is invalid. I just dont agree with it.

You want to say it is akin to changing from a shadow priest to a holy priest? Can a shadow priest stealth like an assassin can? Is a shadow priest ranged or more melee oriented in terms of DPS? Going from an assassin to a sorcerer would be more akin to changing from a rogue to a priest, than from a shadow priest to a holy priest.

I think your splitting hairs here. They did not add enough mechanics to fundamentally change each AC enough to make them distinct. They still share far too many abilities for them to have distinction.

The classes aren't even that distinct. But at least there is enough of a difference between a warrior and a sorc to claim they are separate classes...if the ACs were truly that differentiated than I would agree with that position. As it is it is not IMO.

Again...that doesn't mean I am right...it is just how I see it.

To make things crystal clear...IMO a Marauder and a Juggernaut would have to be akin to a Sorc and a Warrior for them to be seen as real classes.

I'm of mixed feelings on that...

on one hand, having rerolled my shadow as sage and losing all the unlocks I bought on her, not to mention - a loyalty pet, i could have used that AC change - if only to have an opportunity to keep those no longer available rewards.

on the other hand, I personally wouldn't want it to become something easily and constantly done.

one time use or very long cooldown and a relatively high cost, I think I could live with.

You've heard it 100 times before and you'll hear it 100 times again every time someone whines about some game feature or potential game feature which has no affect on them or their characters.

Don't you mean we'll have to hear it every time someone wants something else handed to them for little or no effort?

I'm of mixed feelings on that...

 

on one hand, having rerolled my shadow as sage and losing all the unlocks I bought on her, not to mention - a loyalty pet, i could have used that AC change - if only to have an opportunity to keep those no longer available rewards.

 

on the other hand, I personally wouldn't want it to become something easily and constantly done.

 

one time use or very long cooldown and a relatively high cost, I think I could live with.

This is the suggestion that I had made.

Reselect advanced class - Only allowed when class story is concluded. All points are naturally refunded.

It would cost CC to use, have a 15 day cooldown and all of your current gear would be removed from your toon. This way you could not sport heavy gear in a class that uses medium, etc.

Dual spec - Allowed when you choose your spec onward, but open use is only allowed after you conclude your class story.

Before your story conclusion dual spec would be restricted to use inside heroics, flashpoints, operations and warzones UNLESS the groupfinder tool allows you a free spec swap while qued to fill missing roles. It would be a permanent unlock feature, allowing you to save a particular setup...it saves point allocation and bar locations of specials but not gear setup. it would have a one hour cooldown, and would cost either EC or CC.

After conclusion of your storyline you are unlocked to spec swap any time you wish.

I don't want to be insensitive, in case you have a reading-comprehension disability. So I'd just like to politely encourage you to find outside help to read you the OP, especially the giant quote box where the lead developer says "Yes, that will probably happen".

 

Let's think about your claim.

 

We'll begin with the generous assumption that every month, 1 of 8 classes becomes the new "flavor". We'll also assume that each class has an equal chance of becoming this flavor and ignore similarities between 2 same-class ACs which can also lead to similar weaknesses in the current metagame.

 

Since you are already one class, you have a 12.5% chance of not even needing to AC change! So we can discard 1 class because that's you (wave at the camera!) and you might be lucky and become OP for a month!

 

Thus, we'll decide that there are 7 other classes that might become more powerful and appealing to you than your current class, every month.

 

You can AC change to exactly one of them.

 

Thus, you have a 14.29% chance of being able to impulsively become the new FotM class every month, while retaining about 25-30% of the same skills and tools you would have had if you didn't change.

 

I am sceptical that this is a significant or gamebreaking development.

Once again that quote comes up, as proof that class changes are definitely coming, despite the fact that nowhere in that quote do they say that class changes are definitely coming. The term was not even "probably", it was "likely". You can argue that these two are the synonymous, but they aren't really.

 

I'm still not convinced that the devs are really even considering adding class changes. I think the devs know that if they come out and state definitely for one side or the other, that it will likely cost them significant subs and income, as the "losing" side will likely see many people leave the game. There are those that feel strongly enough against class changes that if the devs allow them, those players will walk away, never to return or spend another cent on this game. The opposite is also true. There are those who are so opposed to the effort required to level another character, that if they cannot swap AC's they will simply stop playing, as their AC has been nerfed, the other AC buffed or simply because they chose the easy mode leveling and now cannot fill their desired end game role.

like·ly

/ˈlīklē/

Adjective

Such as well might happen or be true; probable.

I hereby call you out on consistently trolling a variety of threads, general rudeness, and an overall lack of helpful or positive posts relative to your substantial player-directed negativity.