I think we can all agree that Vitiate can't kill Sidious. So the real question is, how does Sidious kill Vitiate?

 

Not too difficult for the great Emperor. The hardest part is luring Vitiate out of hiding. So how does he do that?

 

Considering that Emperor Palpatine's own personal shuttle supposedly had a cloaking device, the Galactic Empire would actually have some knowledge about cloaking technology.

 

So once the figured out Vitiate had a cloaked space station, it wouldn't be that hard for the Empire to haul in tech to counter the cloaking device and then blast the station into oblivion.

It's not that Sidious is invincible. It's that it took the Chosen One and his son, who reached his full potential, to defeat him. Sidious was the dark side. There is no way some ancient Sith who couldn't even take over the galaxy in his own time is going to defeat the most powerful Sith in history. Sidious almost single-handedly destroyed the Jedi Order at its most powerful and took over the entire galaxy. And this is thousands of years after the TOR era, when the galaxy was more developed, more advanced and had exponentially more resources.

Considering that Emperor Palpatine's own personal shuttle supposedly had a cloaking device, the Galactic Empire would actually have some knowledge about cloaking technology.

 

So once the figured out Vitiate had a cloaked space station, it wouldn't be that hard for the Empire to haul in tech to counter the cloaking device and then blast the station into oblivion.

Can't say I disagree with you. If SIS managed to find it, Imperial Intelligence can. However Vitiate would probably see it coming just as the Emperor did, he seemed pretty unfazed when the JK stormed his throne room - I expect he saw it coming.

Can't say I disagree with you. If SIS managed to find it, Imperial Intelligence can. However Vitiate would probably see it coming just as the Emperor did, he seemed pretty unfazed when the JK stormed his throne room - I expect he saw it coming.

 

Except Palpatine wouldn't bother marching into Vitiate's thrown room, he'd simply have his fleet blast the space station apart, and then blast the wreckage, and then have TIE fighters blast apart the wreckage, then have TIE Bombers bombard it for good measure.

Except Palpatine wouldn't bother marching into Vitiate's thrown room, he'd simply have his fleet blast the space station apart, and then blast the wreckage, and then have TIE fighters blast apart the wreckage, then have TIE Bombers bombard it for good measure.

Lol of course But what I mean is if Vitiate sees it coming he can escape and instead have a fleet waiting to greet them - and preferably the Ascendant Spear...

Lol of course But what I mean is if Vitiate sees it coming he can escape and instead have a fleet waiting to greet them - and preferably the Ascendant Spear...

 

Interdictor Cruiser...

 

In any case if Vitiate evacuates his station, it's only a matter of time before he gets killed.

Am I missing something regarding the Ascendant Spear? It's a fine ship, but from what I've read it is clearly inferior to the best ships of the GE era.

This just became the longest kaggath debate ever....

This just became the longest kaggath debate ever....

 

Actually the Revan vs. Traya debate is the longest one. Mainly because the people backing Revan didn't think the engagement was fair.

 

But let's be honest. Anything involving Revan turns into a drawn out debate.

 

Edit: What have I done?! No one read this!

Edited December 17, 2012 by Aurbere

Changing the topic of the above....

 

Judging from what I read in the last page and this one, my vote still goes to Palpatine's Empire. If they ended up locked in a stalemate, I honestly think Palpatine would better have the tools to deal with a sudden assault on coruscant than vitiate would to deal with an ambush on dromund kaas. (The sole fact that Vitiate has hundreds of sith doesn't make his army better)

Yeah, Traya vs Revan was 100+ posts longer than this one...

But back on topic.

Am I missing something regarding the Ascendant Spear? It's a fine ship, but from what I've read it is clearly inferior to the best ships of the GE era.

From what I read in the Annihilation novel it is more than capable of destroying a SD with a volley of shots - and it's manoverability gives it an edge other the larger and slower SSD and unless an interdictor is involved it can escape in the blink of an eye. And with the Dread Masters aboard, well you get the idea.

Changing the topic of the above....

 

Judging from what I read in the last page and this one, my vote still goes to Palpatine's Empire. If they ended up locked in a stalemate, I honestly think Palpatine would better have the tools to deal with a sudden assault on coruscant than vitiate would to deal with an ambush on dromund kaas. (The sole fact that Vitiate has hundreds of sith doesn't make his army better)

Can't say I disagree with you here, although unless the GE special forces are involved SE army > GE army. However I agree it would likely reach a stalemate and Sidious has a better chance of killing Vitiate than the other way round.

Apparently Beni made his mind up about this fight before he even started the thread. It doesn't seem to matter that Sidious is the most powerful Sith of all time, the best tactician the Sith have ever seen or the most successful manipulator in the history of the galaxy. Nor does it matter that the Galactic Empire under Sidious had vastly more resources, more and better ships, a much bigger army, etc. Vitiate waves magic wand, wins Kaggath.

 

Vitiate would have virtually no chance in this. Sidious is a more power Sith and a superior leader in every way. Sidious has more resources and a better army. There is no way someone objectively looks at this and gives Vitiate a chance in hell.

 

The empires are a lot similar then you think.

+ Vitiate has.. you know.... THOUSANDS OF SITH

The Rebellion was getting crushed, it wasn't until they got a hold of more resources(Mon Calamari ships, A-wings, B-wings, weapons etc) were they able to actually put up a much better fight. By the time they got all their new stuff, they weren't a rag-tag fighting force anymore. Being that they

 

1. Had experience from fighting, even a few being vets from the Clone Wars.

 

2. Had capable tacticians both of their own and from the Empire for those that defected.

 

3. They were using full blown military ships and having some pretty good equipment for ground troops, and their own special forces.

 

So by the end of it, the Rebellion was a pretty sizable threat. You actually get a glimpse of that on Hoth, what rag-tag fighting force would be able to get their hands on a shield generator and a V-150 anti-orbital ion cannon?

 

The ion cannon alone cost 1.5mil credits new, and 1mil used.

 

Biggest rebel victory factor: Luke Skywalker.

 

Vitiate has thousands of force users. None of these men were AS powerful as Luke, but many of them were very powerful.

I think we can all agree that Vitiate can't kill Sidious. So the real question is, how does Sidious kill Vitiate?

 

Not too difficult for the great Emperor. The hardest part is luring Vitiate out of hiding. So how does he do that?

 

Correction: Vitiate can't kill Sidious one-on-one.

Actually the Revan vs. Traya debate is the longest one. Mainly because the people backing Revan didn't think the engagement was fair.

 

But let's be honest. Anything involving Revan turns into a drawn out debate.

 

Edit: What have I done?! No one read this!

 

The debate certainly wasn't as bad as others. lol

 

But yeah... we did draw it out a bit but I felt we had a very good reason.

Biggest rebel victory factor: Luke Skywalker.

 

Vitiate has thousands of force users. None of these men were AS powerful as Luke, but many of them were very powerful.

 

Except the rebels engaged in hit and run strategies. The Sith Empire will engage in full scale war. A war that they will lose. The Galactic Empire has limitless resources, a massive army, thousands of ships including some of the most powerful ships ever built, and Darth Sidious.

 

 

Most of your vaunted Force users are students and acolytes with limited knowledge of the Sith arts. Very few Sith(overall) are fully trained Sith. Against the overwhelming numbers of the Galactic Empire the Sith would get destroyed.

 

Edit: One thing about the Dread Masters. Remember when they got captured by the Republic?

Edited December 18, 2012 by Aurbere

Biggest rebel victory factor: Luke Skywalker.

 

Vitiate has thousands of force users. None of these men were AS powerful as Luke, but many of them were very powerful.

 

No not really, in several battles the Rebels were in with Luke leading them they still lost. They won a few battles here and there with Luke, but to say he himself was the biggest factor to victory? No, it took everyone to get victory against the Empire.

 

But that is another thread, for another time so lets leave it here and get back to this battle.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

Does Vitiate get Darth Angral? 'Cause that would make a difference.

Angral's got the desolater and all those Powerguards. I understand if he can't have the desolater, but Vitiate ought to get Angral and the Powerguards.

 

I think the Powerguards will be able to counter the special forces of the GE. They were able to rival the Hero of Tython after all.

Does Vitiate get Darth Angral? 'Cause that would make a difference.

Angral's got the desolater and all those Powerguards. I understand if he can't have the desolater, but Vitiate ought to get Angral and the Powerguards.

 

I think the Powerguards will be able to counter the special forces of the GE. They were able to rival the Hero of Tython after all.

Yes, Angral is allowed. Not the desolator of course, and what are powerguards?

Yes, Angral is allowed. Not the desolator of course, and what are powerguards?

 

From what I know, powerguards are cybernetically enhanced soldiers. Most likely equivalent to the Phase 1 Dark Troopers. So they won't affect the battle very much.

The Power Guard was still in research development mode. The Dark Trooper program got out of that mode, and was cranking out actual Troopers that were effective on the battlefield. But the Power Guards seemed pretty basic, actually the Phase Zero Dark Trooper seems more then a match for the Power Guard. Not really including the Phase 1 Dark Trooper, given they were not in combat and was more for sentry duty. Edited December 18, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

From what I know, powerguards are cybernetically enhanced soldiers. Most likely equivalent to the Phase 1 Dark Troopers. So they won't affect the battle very much.

 

I disagree. The Hero of Tython had a tuff time with them and he went on to defeat Angral and the Emperor.

The Power Guard was still in research development mode. The Dark Trooper program got out of that mode, and was cranking out actual Troopers that were effective on the battlefield. But the Power Guards seemed pretty basic, actually the Phase Zero Dark Trooper seems more then a match for the Power Guard. Not really including the Phase 1 Dark Trooper, given they were not in combat and was more for sentry duty.

 

Like I said: the Powerguard gave the Hero of Tython a run for his money. So they are without a doubt combat-ready.

Like I said: the Powerguard gave the Hero of Tython a run for his money. So they are without a doubt combat-ready.

 

Compared to their Dark Trooper equivalent, they aren't worth much. The Dark Trooper project was pretty much the perfected version of the Powerguards. Even the highest level of powerguards is probably only equal to a Phase 1 Dark Trooper. The normal Powerguards are most similar to the Phase Zero Troopers.

 

Once we get into the Phase Two and Three Dark Troopers, the Sith Empire is pretty much toast. A small group of Phase Two Dark Troopers can take out a base of soldiers with relative ease. The Phase Three Dark Trooper was a walking tank with armor resistant to small arms fire and even Lightsabers. The firepower of a single Phase Three could replace a battalion of Stormtroopers.

Compared to their Dark Trooper equivalent, they aren't worth much. The Dark Trooper project was pretty much the perfected version of the Powerguards. Even the highest level of powerguards is probably only equal to a Phase 1 Dark Trooper. The normal Powerguards are most similar to the Phase Zero Troopers.

 

Once we get into the Phase Two and Three Dark Troopers, the Sith Empire is pretty much toast. A small group of Phase Two Dark Troopers can take out a base of soldiers with relative ease. The Phase Three Dark Trooper was a walking tank with armor resistant to small arms fire and even Lightsabers. The firepower of a single Phase Three could replace a battalion of Stormtroopers.

 

Well really I think the Empire kinda went backwards at first, cause it seems that the Phase Zero Dark Trooper is better then the Phase 1. But ya then the 2/3 came along and were much better. There were also the other variants(the Elite Dark Trooper and Dark Nova) but those don't really have information, so best not to include those.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi