So I see in most websites out there that discuss dps rotation when vigilance, they put blade storm way above master strike. I don't get it. Blade Storm uses focus whereas Master Strike does not. And Blade Storm seems to do less damage than Master Strike.

 

So I'm not getting the logic. Can anyone explain to me why Blade Storm is much more preferential than Master Strike?

Master Strike is channeled. It's all about mobility. In PvP, you really need the mobility rather than just standing there. If your opponet is cc'd/stunned then MS can come in handy, but not very often. I've seen Guardian videos where they don't even mention using MS at all because the lack of mobility. Master Strike comes in handy in PvE, but, for me, only when I'm fighting an Elite or a Champion mob.

 

Also, Blade Storm crits and Master Strike doesn't. It may be true that the numbers on the two abilites vary and it may seem tha Master Strike hits harder, but your gimping yourself especially in PvP.

Edited March 25, 2012 by SirSensi

Makes sense. I wasn't considering the 3 sec channel which equates to about 1K per sec whereas blade storm you're getting more damage per second. Thanks for your reply. Edited March 25, 2012 by icroyal

Blade Storm is probably your hardest hitting attack considering it will crit 60%+ of the time with Force Rush, has a 10 meter range and it's a force attack so it's unblockable. This is why it's used more.

 

With Momentum taken in defense tree your blade storm will cost you nothing off a force leap which is fantastic, and assuming your using Shien like you should - with Victory Rush, Momentum and Solidifying Force from the Defense trees you can literally spam attacks endlessly and not have any focus issues -- but when you do simply pop Combat Focus and you're ready to go.

 

As far as Master Strike goes it's overall your best DPS. I use it quite often in PvP, with Freezing Force snaring opponents and 80% of the time people are to stupid to either interrupt MS or run out of melee range I get all 3 attacks in quite often.

 

Only the PvPers that don't know what they're doing opt out of using Ravage and Master Strike. If you take the talent with Zen Strike you can do INSANE amounts of damage because Overhead Slash and Plasma Brand will proc the CD allowing you to use it again.

 

Master Strike is bread and butter attack and should be use frequently, but smartly in your rotation for it does tons of damage and helps maintain focus cus it costs nothing.

 

My general attack rotation goes something like this > Throw Saber > Leap > Master Strike (depending on how stupid they are I may clip it after the first 2 attacks) > Sunder > Overhead Slash > Blade Storm > Plasma Brand > Stasis > Sunder > Force Sweep and pretty much repeat.

 

I do change it up a lot if I get a MS cool down after my OS and PB I immediately cast another MS and clip it after 2 strikes and then throw them in stasis.

 

I'm pretty amazed at how so many Vengeance and Vigilance builds fail at maximizing their DPS potential and a good chunk of them seem to think Ravage and MS aren't real viable in PvP.

Master Strike generally isn't used because it is a channeled attack, it plants you in place for 3 seconds.

 

In a boss fight, particularly one that likes area attacks or has Death from Aboves, Master Strike can actually get you killed.

 

Blade Storm, Overhead Strike, and Plasma Brand are all instant attacks they don't impair your mobility.

 

That's why Vigilence people often do not even have master strike in their usual rotation.

 

Is master strike useful in some situations, sure. However in all honesty there are times you can do more damage to a target using Plasma Brand (plasma brand's damage is backend with the DoTs that ignore damage reductions) and blade storm simply because they completely ignore standard shields.

Blade Storm is probably your hardest hitting attack considering it will crit 60%+ of the time with Force Rush, has a 10 meter range and it's a force attack so it's unblockable. This is why it's used more.

 

With Momentum taken in defense tree your blade storm will cost you nothing off a force leap which is fantastic, and assuming your using Shien like you should - with Victory Rush, Momentum and Solidifying Force from the Defense trees you can literally spam attacks endlessly and not have any focus issues -- but when you do simply pop Combat Focus and you're ready to go.

 

As far as Master Strike goes it's overall your best DPS. I use it quite often in PvP, with Freezing Force snaring opponents and 80% of the time people are to stupid to either interrupt MS or run out of melee range I get all 3 attacks in quite often.

 

Only the PvPers that don't know what they're doing opt out of using Ravage and Master Strike. If you take the talent with Zen Strike you can do INSANE amounts of damage because Overhead Slash and Plasma Brand will proc the CD allowing you to use it again.

 

Master Strike is bread and butter attack and should be use frequently, but smartly in your rotation for it does tons of damage and helps maintain focus cus it costs nothing.

 

My general attack rotation goes something like this > Throw Saber > Leap > Master Strike (depending on how stupid they are I may clip it after the first 2 attacks) > Sunder > Overhead Slash > Blade Storm > Plasma Brand > Stasis > Sunder > Force Sweep and pretty much repeat.

 

I do change it up a lot if I get a MS cool down after my OS and PB I immediately cast another MS and clip it after 2 strikes and then throw them in stasis.

 

I'm pretty amazed at how so many Vengeance and Vigilance builds fail at maximizing their DPS potential and a good chunk of them seem to think Ravage and MS aren't real viable in PvP.

 

Everything this guy said. Smart fella....

 

I used to be one of those people who felt that using Master Strike wasn't really viable in PvP because most smart people will just move out of the way when they see it happening. But that was actually my misunderstanding of the true mechanics behind the ability.

 

The biggest turn offs of the ability are the range and the channeling of it. The range seems to make the most sense because the ability says it has a 4M range but what a lot of people misunderstand is that the range of the ability is the range to trigger it and not the actual range of the ability itself. I've had people who were around 10 meters away AND behind me and they still got hit by all 3 hits of master strike. Additionally if you snare someone with Freezing Force then it is actually IMPOSSIBLE for them to use regular movement to get out of master strikes range. If you snare them and then begin Master Strike all 3 hits WILL hit the target unless you are stunned or the ability is interrupted.

 

As far as the channeling is concerned that's really not such a huge deal actually. It does give time for the ability to be interrupted but I've found that you're average player who isn't a Jedi Knight/Sith Warrior class doesn't seem to be smart enough to tell that an ability is being channeled at them and they don't seem to know to interrupt it unless they're using one of their stun cool downs. Also, in 1.2 enemies won't be able to interrupt it. This doesn't change the fact that you can stop channeling an ability whenever you choose to. All you have to do is move or do a different attack and it will stop. Just like Force Stasis/Choke.

 

I will usually use Master Strike immediately after a leap because even if I only land the first 2 hits that's usually about 3000 damage on its own. I also like to use it as a finisher because the first 2 hits of master strike do a huge amount of damage and last for the exact duration of a single global cool down. So I'll usually do the first two hits to put a target well under 20% health and then Dispatch. If I've got a Force Rush proc going then even better. Very few targets can actually survive that. Actually, almost no one survives that.

 

I'm a firm believer in Zen Strike now and it's actually getting even better in 1.2. Zen Strike is great because I get a 30% chance to reset the cool down of master strike for using abilities that I use all the damn time anyway. Some times I'll open a rotation with Master strike then use Sundering Strike, Plasma Brand, Blade Storm and Overhead Slash and more often than not Master Strike will have reset it's cool down and my target will be almost dead. At which point I open up again with Master Strike for the first 2 hits and then Dispatch instead of waiting for the final hit to land. If I do this exactly right then I should still have a Force Rush Proc going which makes my dispatch auto crit. In 1.2 whenever you get a Zen Strike proc it will automatically give you 2 focus. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. One of the main problems with the rotation that I just stated is that many times I will get to the point where I want to dispatch but I only have exactly 2 focus left. It's really REALLY annoying. But with this new buff in 1.2 then there's a really good chance that we will have exactly the amount of focus we need to throw out that dispatch immediately without having to use an extra focus generating attack.

 

If you don't currently use Master Strike in PvP you should strongly consider practicing with it now if you're a Vigilance Guardian. We can reduce the cool down so that you'll be getting master strike available to you almost twice as often as any other skill tree, we have abilities that make using it actually generate focus. It will be uninterruptible come 1.2 and we will have easy access to a skill that makes it do 8% more damage on the bottom tier of the focus skill tree for 2 points. It's becoming insanely better as of 1.2 and I think people should really get used to using it now.

So I see in most websites out there that discuss dps rotation when vigilance, they put blade storm way above master strike. I don't get it. Blade Storm uses focus whereas Master Strike does not. And Blade Storm seems to do less damage than Master Strike.

 

So I'm not getting the logic. Can anyone explain to me why Blade Storm is much more preferential than Master Strike?

 

It's because of force rush giving BS a +60% crit. You will essentially crit with BS everytime due to that talent combined with your own crit %.

 

MS's dps is actually really good if you only do the first two hits and then self interrupt it. The first two hits are pretty much instant. I use it that way in pve and pvp all the time.

Anyone telling you not to use, or not mentioning Master Strike in PVP doesn't know what they are talking about.

In 1v1 situations, I can fully see how MS is viable. Unless my target is stunned/slept/knocked down I dont even consider using it. And 1v1 is a rarity on my server in WZ's, esp for me since most of the Imps seem to notice that I am using my utility (Freezing Force, Challenging Call, Taunt, Stasis, and Awe) against them and I usually have a healer under Guard. They have seemed to wise up and I end up being ff upon. So my rotation includes Saber Throw > Leap > Sunder > OS > BS > PB (I will switch that up between OS, BS, PB depending on focus and if my target is dead or GCD) also hitting my utility and annoying the s**t outta the crowd.

 

I will use MS if the situation calls for it, but mainly being ff which in an odd sense helps my team (if 4+ enemies are on me, then thats 4 less attempting to thwart my teams advances), most of the time though the situation doesn't call for it since I have to stay mobile 99% of the match. I will give it a shot the next time the opportunity arises.

Honestly Master Strike is Meh in Pvp. You can get it off easily as long as you use it in "suprise" or CC'd targets. It's great if another Jedi has the kungfu grip goin!

 

However, being rooted is bad mmmkay...

 

I don't know about bladestorm being my hardest hitter. Overhead crits and dispatch bring much much much much more facepain on crits. I'd say bladestorm is like 3rd with an * for consistency.

 

also guys... better start practicing your cyclone sweeps... gonna be wai more important in 1.2. to follow up sweep.

 

+ hey buku bonus style points for massive overhead crits when you actually jump over the guys head. <3 overhead. Overhead = buku gosu...

Edited March 28, 2012 by VoidJustice

Anyone telling you not to use, or not mentioning Master Strike in PVP doesn't know what they are talking about.

 

I thought you usually yap about how you use the Focus Tree.

 

Sorry, but Vigilence tree is currently more of a PvE skill tree.

 

 

 

Okay Master Strike generally isn't used by Vigilence guardians because it restricts mobility. It is a channeled skill and can be interrupted.

 

 

Plasmabrand, Overhead strike, blade storm, and force sweep are stronger skills for a Vigilence guardian currently.

 

I can get a plasma brand or overhead strike and a blade storm followup in the time it takes to dish out 1 master strike. I generally use plasma brand because it bypasses shields, but there are people that prefer overhead strike.

 

The fact there are people on the opposing team that don't know how to exploit the principle weakness of Masterstrike speaks more to the experience level of your opponents, than it does the usefulness of the skill. While they are making it so it can't be interrupted, that still puts you in a bad situation because you are planted in place for 3 seconds or your attack gets cancelled.

 

Is it a useful attack, it can be, however it is just as capable of getting the user of this attack killed. Master strike also doesn't not bypass shields and does not bypass armor like Plasmabrand, Forcesweep, and Blade Storm do.

 

Furthermore, unlike the focus tree, the Vigilence tree doesn't center around using freezing force or other skills that reduce an opponents movement.

 

That's why Vigilence Guardians do not have Master Strike in their standard rotation, for you to claim that it is stupidity on our parts demonstrates to me your lack of knowledge on how the Vigilence tree actually works. Additionally, we've said that Master strike is not in our standard rotation, we did not say that we never use the skill. In the rare situation where master strike actually is useful, we will use it, but we're not going to stupidly try to use a skill that doesn't really fit into how the Vigilence tree works simply cause some Focus PvPer tells us to.

 

The two trees utilize entirely different playing styles.

I thought you usually yap about how you use the Focus Tree..

 

For the third time now, I'm not, I never have, you're bad, you don't know what you're talking about, the fact that you don't know how to stop people on the opposing team using the weakness of Masterstrike against you speaks volumes about the level of your skill blah blah blah we can all use that line blah blah.

 

You've made comments in the past like "no ones cares that you play on multi servers with a Trooper" then you pull junk comments like that. Nothing you actually wrote bore any relation to the line "anyone telling you not to use, or not mentioning Master Strike in PVP doesn't know what they are talking about".

 

Yadda yadda yadda this will go on like this for pages with you reporting the same rubbish having problems performing but still insisting you know better yadda yadda yadda finally ending with you telling everyone you don't PVP much anyway.

 

Been over it with you before, I have no reason to listen to your whine again.

Edited March 26, 2012 by CapuchinSeven

For the third time now, I'm not, I never have, you're bad, you don't know what you're talking about, the fact that you don't know how to stop people on the opposing team using the weakness of Masterstrike against you speaks volumes about the level of your skill blah blah blah we can all use that line blah blah.

 

Then for the record what do you play as? Cause I am a Vigilence Guardian, while I have a DPS sage, and a Healer Scoundrel, my main char is a Vigilence Guardian.

 

I'm speaking from what I've seen with being in groups and how personally Guardian tanks make me nervous and how I've noticed that range based chars tend to have an easier time in flashpoints for the simple reason they can attack at a distance and keep attacking from a distance.

 

You've made comments in the past like "no ones cares that you play on multi servers with a Trooper" then you pull junk comments like that. Nothing you actually wrote bore any relation to the line "anyone telling you not to use, or not mentioning Master Strike in PVP doesn't know what they are talking about".

 

When you're making statements that are contradicted by other people that have played the same classes and what they are saying fits with what I've observed and what you say is a complete 180. Coupled with the argument you constantly use that people need to learn to play, when they are saying something needs to be improved (on things even Bioware has acknowledged this class has some serious issues), then yeah I am going to be suspicious.

 

Yadda yadda yadda this will go on like this for pages with you reporting the same rubbish having problems performing but still insisting you know better yadda yadda yadda finally ending with you telling everyone you don't PVP much anyway.

 

While I don't PvP much, that doesn't mean I haven't PvPed, and experience factors heavily into a PvP fight in a way that it really doesn't for PvE. Even with the obvious disadvantages this class has, we can clobber someone from another class when said class is stronger than our class, simply due to experience and skill of the person playing our class. In all honesty you may be able to clobber someone as a guardian when they are playing say a sorceror or BH. That's all well and good, but you'd probably clobber the same person using a trooper with half the effort.

 

So what I'm saying is that PvP isn't just about the strength of the class, it's the skills and experience level of the players playing those classes.

 

PVE is a better indicator because you can play different classes against the same critter, and that's where you start seeing major differences between Guardians and other classes. Other classes don't take nearly the effort to deal with things in PvE that a guardian does.

 

Been over it with you before, I have no reason to listen to your whine again.

 

I'm just going to point out that people usually notice their own faults in other people. I did read through a lot of what you said, I just stopped paying attention when you started throwing the L2P argument all over the place.

The range on Master Strike is a lot more distance than people think. I've had people run out of "range" it seems like plenty of times on the 3rd attack yet it still pops them for 3k anyway.

 

Being channeled for 3 seconds is in PvP for the most part has been irrelevant for me. If I'm fighting an agent, smuggler, or assassin/shadow I will usually clip it after the first 2 strikes to keep them from getting behind me - but in all honestly the skill-gap in PvP is pretty low.

 

You got people claiming Master Strike is not viable in PvP and I hate to say it they don't know what they're talking about and then you have the crowd of sucky players that spam 1 talent over and over and win.

 

It's hilarious to interrupt a merc or trooper and they sit there and do nothing for 2 seconds before they realized their grav/tracer has been locked and then they unload or full auto. Hilarious.

Edited March 27, 2012 by bamsmacked

The range on Master Strike is a lot more distance than people think. I've had people run out of "range" it seems like plenty of times on the 3rd attack yet it still pops them for 3k anyway.

 

Being channeled for 3 seconds is in PvP for the most part has been irrelevant for me. If I'm fighting an agent, smuggler, or assassin/shadow I will usually clip it after the first 2 strikes to keep them from getting behind me - but in all honestly the skill-gap in PvP is pretty low.

 

You got people claiming Master Strike is not viable in PvP and I hate to say it they don't know what they're talking about and then you have the crowd of sucky players that spam 1 talent over and over and win.

 

It's hilarious to interrupt a merc or trooper and they sit there and do nothing for 2 seconds before they realized their grav/tracer has been locked and then they unload or full auto. Hilarious.

 

*Shakes head.

 

I'm normally in situations where I'm having to fight multiple opponents and/or worry about area attacks of one form or another (while I may have other people with me). That goes for both PvE and PvP situations. A one on one situation particularly with the change to master strike (assuming you can't be knocked back while in master strike) makes master strike viable in 1 on 1 situations, unfortunately you rarely end up in fights that are one on ones. Attacks like Plasma Brand, Overhead strike, and Blade storm are all instant attacks that are extremely hard to interrupt if not impossible.

 

You may take out something with master strike, fine I've probably done the same thing to the same critter with overhead + bladestorm in about the same time or slightly less.

 

The key sticking point with master strike is how it impares one's mobility for the duration. Since PvP and PvE normally has you fighting more than one critter or person you are left vulnerable for strikes that you wouldn't be quite as vulnerable to using the attacks that are not channeled.

*Shakes head.

 

I'm normally in situations where I'm having to fight multiple opponents and/or worry about area attacks of one form or another (while I may have other people with me). That goes for both PvE and PvP situations. A one on one situation particularly with the change to master strike (assuming you can't be knocked back while in master strike) makes master strike viable in 1 on 1 situations, unfortunately you rarely end up in fights that are one on ones. Attacks like Plasma Brand, Overhead strike, and Blade storm are all instant attacks that are extremely hard to interrupt if not impossible.

 

You may take out something with master strike, fine I've probably done the same thing to the same critter with overhead + bladestorm in about the same time or slightly less.

 

The key sticking point with master strike is how it impares one's mobility for the duration. Since PvP and PvE normally has you fighting more than one critter or person you are left vulnerable for strikes that you wouldn't be quite as vulnerable to using the attacks that are not channeled.

 

Like I said.. Being immobilized for like 1 and a half seconds is irrelevant... The first two attacks hit right after another, it doesn't even take 2 seconds. You usually will clip it after the first 2 hits especially if your up against a melee class that does more damage if they get behind you, like agents for example. Something else you're neglecting is that it costs ZERO focus.

 

But if your in a situation where its 1 v 2 sorcs being immobilized doesn't matter much either. They're ranged their attacks will hit you anyway, the only reason to clip it and move is to get out of AoE talents. Also since most sorcs/sages are hybrids vs two your probably going to die no matter how mobile you are. They will proceed to chain CC you, and then lightning + snare you to death. Your best bet is to use Awe if possible, snare them, force push one away, and Guardian Leap to an ally somewhere. If you try to take on multiple opponents you're not playing Vigilance as it's intended to be played.

 

The range on MS is 4 meters. It's a much bigger gap then what most people think, no reason at all not to use it frequently because people are usually to stupid to interrupt or to dumb to run out of range. So yeah I'll be temporary immobilized to hit a Sorc for 7k damage any day.

 

 

"Okay Master Strike generally isn't used by Vigilence guardians because it restricts mobility. It is a channeled skill and can be interrupted."

 

I honestly don't think you know how to play the Vigilance build like it's intended.

 

And if the next patch sticks - Master Strike and Ravage will become even more viable in PvP. They are removing the talent from the Focus/Rage tree that makes the attack uninterruptable and making the skill itself uninterruptable. Not to mention with focused defense comes into play Vigilance Guardians will heal after each hit they suffer - which further increases the usefulness of MS cus again it costs NO focus.

 

How often does my MS get interrupted and how often does being immobilized get me killed? Maybe 1 in 10 warzones it will get interrupted by an actual interrupt, and it hardly ever gets me killed because I lose mobility. 3 seconds of sitting in 1 place and doing 5-7k damage is worth it dude. I've never had OS + BS out DPS Master Strike. If both attacks crit I may get like 5k damage. If all my attacks crit with MS I'm looking at 7k+ damage.

 

With Guardian Leap, our snare, and Awe at our disposal being immobilized for 3 measly seconds isn't that big of a deal. Guardians are one of the most mobile classes in the game.

Edited March 27, 2012 by bamsmacked

When MasterStrike is used.

 

1) Cause the target is in stasis.

2) Cause everything else is on cooldown.

3) Cause you want to gauge an unknown opponents pvp skill.

(look at this ()#&$ BH taking MS to the face and not even missing 1 MISSLE of his spam)

4) The target is ignoring you.

5) O damn I ment to hit __________, and I wiffed it.

 

After 1.2

 

1) After leap when target is isolated.

2) Cause the target is in stasis.

3) Cause everything else is on cooldown.

4) Cause you want to gauge an unknown opponents pvp skill.

5) The target is ignoring you.

6) O damn I ment to hit __________, and I wiffed it.

 

When to NEVER USE MASTERSTRIKE

 

1) When you are currently being focused.

2) When you must maintain high mobility (ie you have the huttball).

3) When standing in the imperial AOE death zone.

4) When in the middle of a 1v1 duel to the death and your target is not stunned.

5) When dispatch is up.

 

So basically you use it on a Tuesday February 29th at 1:27 am when in a Zebra Stampeed and your dressed in speedos and aviation goggles.

 

p.s. I do not have master strike keybound... it is pretty much the one skill I forgive myself for clicking as it is that rare to be used in pvp which is mostly all I do. I do solo content for the lulz thou... don't JUDGE ME BRO!

 

 

 

GLHF!

Edited March 27, 2012 by VoidJustice

Guardians are one of the most mobile classes in the game.

 

You're wasting your time buddy, in his mind, and I quote "in PVP it is extremely easy to kite us because we are melee".

 

don't JUDGE ME BRO!

 

I think you should give yourself more time with it, mine will hit for around 6k. In Vig after a Force Leap it's totally uninterruptible, free and you can't be CC'd, in PVP gear you gain another 10% bonus to damage as well as any relic of alike you pop.

 

Those are the kind of numbers you see from Focus builds, but when used right it's much harder to counter or see coming, it's not AOE of course so you don't see the scoreboard numbers but two of my Sage friends are already freaking at it being uninterruptible for all Knights/Warriors.

Edited March 27, 2012 by CapuchinSeven

I dont pvp, so I cant speak in that capacity, however in pve, ops and hm fp's, what works for me is starting with saber throw, force leap, opportune strike (on anything below elite), sundering strike, force sweep, plasma brand, sundering strike, overhead strike, blade storm, sundering strike, master strike, by the time master strike done, cooldown should be done on the start of the aforementioned rotation. If you must, strike should only be used when you are starved for focus or everything, and I mean EVERYTHING else is on cooldown. Use dispatch when it is up. Even if you dont follow this rotation to the letter, make sure you use sundering strike after every two abilities, keeping sunder armor up and it builds plenty of focus. Hope this helps.

Last night, in PvP, for s**t's and giggles I used a bit of MS and what I've found was, it is definetly situational on my server.

 

I started off with a saber throw, force leap, then sunder, then ms. Got off about 2 hits and went into BS, OS/PB rotation. It was only viable a few times and definetly not enough to be added into my normal rotation.

 

I will admit that being ff a lot has got to be the main reason I do not include MS into my rotation in PvP. It may change for me personally when I get to 50.

 

I am usually giving protection to healers, and using my utility to assist then dps and hitting hard when I do with BS, OS, PB.

Like I said.. Being immobilized for like 1 and a half seconds is irrelevant... The first two attacks hit right after another, it doesn't even take 2 seconds. You usually will clip it after the first 2 hits especially if your up against a melee class that does more damage if they get behind you, like agents for example. Something else you're neglecting is that it costs ZERO focus.

 

Cept with shien I don't have focus generating issues, it's extremely rare for me to currently end up with not having enough focus. This may be a problem if I ever decide to use 1.2's focused defense, but currently vigilence guardians have no issue in the focus generating department.

 

But if your in a situation where its 1 v 2 sorcs being immobilized doesn't matter much either. They're ranged their attacks will hit you anyway, the only reason to clip it and move is to get out of AoE talents. Also since most sorcs/sages are hybrids vs two your probably going to die no matter how mobile you are. They will proceed to chain CC you, and then lightning + snare you to death. Your best bet is to use Awe if possible, snare them, force push one away, and Guardian Leap to an ally somewhere. If you try to take on multiple opponents you're not playing Vigilance as it's intended to be played.

 

I'm not referring to 2 on 1 I'm referring to you having a group and the enemy having a group. Some sorceror attacks appear to be area effects, that there is a short time frame to get out of. Furthermore, with the fact one generates focus rapidly as a vigilence guardian, one can get off attacks more rapidly using skills like sundering strike in combo with plasma brand (can use overhead strike instead), and then utilize momentum to launch a nice crit bladestorm at the other sorceror, since blade storm is a medium range attack.

 

The range on MS is 4 meters. It's a much bigger gap then what most people think, no reason at all not to use it frequently because people are usually to stupid to interrupt or to dumb to run out of range. So yeah I'll be temporary immobilized to hit a Sorc for 7k damage any day.

 

That has to do with the skill level of the opponents not the strength of our class or their class.

 

Sorcerors have a nice little knockback, just like Sages, that would work just as well at interrupting masterstrike currently. Might even work in 1.2.

 

"Okay Master Strike generally isn't used by Vigilence guardians because it restricts mobility. It is a channeled skill and can be interrupted."

 

I honestly don't think you know how to play the Vigilance build like it's intended.

 

I don't think you understand master strike's major drawback, I've seen people like you get killed in flashpoints because they decided to try to use master strike like it was some kind of awesome skill.

 

The fact it is lethal against people that don't know anything about how our class works is a testament to your skill level being much higher than the person you are fighting, nothing more.

 

And if the next patch sticks - Master Strike and Ravage will become even more viable in PvP. They are removing the talent from the Focus/Rage tree that makes the attack uninterruptable and making the skill itself uninterruptable. Not to mention with focused defense comes into play Vigilance Guardians will heal after each hit they suffer - which further increases the usefulness of MS cus again it costs NO focus.

 

Unless force wave doesn't cancel the damage being done, it will still be interruptable. Has anyone tested that yet?

 

How often does my MS get interrupted and how often does being immobilized get me killed? Maybe 1 in 10 warzones it will get interrupted by an actual interrupt, and it hardly ever gets me killed because I lose mobility. 3 seconds of sitting in 1 place and doing 5-7k damage is worth it dude. I've never had OS + BS out DPS Master Strike. If both attacks crit I may get like 5k damage. If all my attacks crit with MS I'm looking at 7k+ damage.

 

The fact your opponents don't know how this class works doesn't make master strike an awesome skill. It means they don't know the weaknesses of the skill.

 

With Guardian Leap, our snare, and Awe at our disposal being immobilized for 3 measly seconds isn't that big of a deal. Guardians are one of the most mobile classes in the game.

 

Since I normally end up in fights with things where snares and stuns don't work I guess we're facing different enemies.

The fact your opponents don't know how this class works doesn't make master strike an awesome skill. It means they don't know the weaknesses of the skill.

 

Oh look, Garfield's answer to any and all suggestions he doesn't know what he's doing in PVP.

Edited March 27, 2012 by CapuchinSeven

Oh look, Garfield's answer to any and all suggestions he doesn't know what he's doing in PVP.

 

 

Okay I'm going to break this down.

 

1. Currently, Master strike can be interrupted, whether or not the person being hit by Master Strike understands that fact is immaterial, the weakness exists. Now supposedly it won't be interruptable in 1.2, but I wonder if that is the case (will knockbacks affect your ability to finish this skill in 1.2).

 

2. While a lot of people don't bother with carrying shields even if they are able to, because they think shields are worthless in PvP (and yes they don't block many attacks), the fact remains that when a shield activates it will reduce the damage one receives from a master strike. As many Jedi Knight and Sith Warrior players are aware, Master Strike is a standard melee attack, not a force based attack.

 

3. Master strike has a 3 second channel time, and there is also the global cooldown, while people using sorseu have a focus issue routinely, people that use shien do not.

 

4. Master strike does not set up other skills to crit. Overhead strike and Plasma brand (which is a force attack) do.

 

 

Saber throw, force leap, and sundering strike (assuming you have points in the skill to generate additional focus from sundering strike) generate 9 focus. Then there is the 1 force refund from using skills that usually would use focus. You can in fact get the free attack with blade storm while using sundering strike then either plasma brand or overhead, and you get the crit too. So you get a free attack from blade storm which will probably be a critical hit and ignores shields and many other damage reductions.

 

I can certainly get in a sundering strike and plasma brand in under 3 seconds after a force leap. Plus blade storm is a medium range attack, now I don't have the game up right this second but I think momentum is a 6 second effect. So while you would have force leaped and master striked, I would have hit them with an armor debuff, a force attack that also does the strongest DoT a guardian has available, and have either hit them with a blade storm or about to hit them with one that will likely be a crit. In short, I'm probably doing more damage to the target than your master strike. Only thing I'm having to watch is the global cooldowns.

 

If there is then a target where master strike might be a viable option, I still have that attack in reserve.

 

I'm not saying master strike is worthless, I'm saying that for a vigilence guardian, it really isn't a skill that should be in your standard rotation.

 

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that I'm saying people should avoid the skill like the plague, which is NOT what I'm saying.

 

When I feel a master strike is the best attack in a given situation I'll use it, but it isn't in my standard attack rotation.

 

Force sweep is extremely useful and generates focus for me, but that doesn't mean I'll use it every chance I get, because it has the annoying tendency to disrupt CCs put in place by group members.

 

 

Freezing Force is not in my standard rotation and I don't use Opportune strike at all. Doesn't mean I don't know what freezing force can do, just generally in PvE you don't have the situation where the enemy tries to run away (or if they do they have an ability that prevents snares from working), so in PvE it isn't a skill I would use.

 

I'm well aware freezing force is useful in PvP to try to keep from being kited by an opponent.

Edited March 27, 2012 by GarfieldJL

....I'm sorry but in that massive huge blob of text, what was is it that you actually feel changes my original post?

 

"Anyone telling you not to use, or not mentioning Master Strike in PVP doesn't know what they are talking about."

 

NEWS AT 11 folks, a skill that lands for over 5k free damage can be countered, with this logic it's also pointless speccing Focus because your 5k Sweep bomb can be countered with a timed CC. You heard it here first.

 

I honestly cannot have a sensible conversation with someone that thinks that a PVP Guardian "is extremely easy to kite".

....I'm sorry but in that massive huge blob of text, what was is it that you actually feel changes my original post?

 

"Anyone telling you not to use, or not mentioning Master Strike in PVP doesn't know what they are talking about."

 

NEWS AT 11 folks, a skill that lands for over 5k free damage can be countered, with this logic it's also pointless speccing Focus because your 5k Sweep bomb can be countered with a timed CC. You heard it here first.

 

I honestly cannot have a sensible conversation with someone that thinks that a PVP Guardian "is extremely easy to kite".

 

We cannot hit anything that is over 10 meters from our char but is less than 15 meters from our char.

 

So yeah, we actually can be kited...

 

Btw, if you're getting master strike to pull off 5k damage, I guarentee you that a sundering strike, plasma brand (or overhead strike), with a blade storm follow-up is probably going to do more damage than 5k, and quite a bit of the damage bypasses some standard damage reductions.

Edited March 28, 2012 by GarfieldJL