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You do realize that the only reason KP had instant travel was because the developers built the level without any consideration of a speeder run though it. So the quick fix was to just zap you there instead of trying to create a travel path through all the corridors and elevator shafts. It was poor design that just happened to make raiding life more convenient as an apology.

 

I personally would not hold BW to the standards of such lazy shortcut as a means of future implementation of transportation within raids. The concept of players just bouncing from one place to another makes no logical sense and truly just looks broken. Hell, even the rakata transporters on Belsavis seemed pretty cheesy in general.

 

"Logical sense" or not, accumulating 30 minutes (15 wipes * 2 minutes per runback) or more of wasting time per raid night in just running back after wipes is not going to reduce raider attrition at all.

 

There is a reason why other MMOs started putting things in like player summoning spells, click transports past bosses and quick flight/speeder paths.

 

Shoot, just doing the 3 Tatooine Rakghoul bosses last night made me wish for a player summon ability. It takes forever for someone to move from planet_A to Tatooine, then speeder out to where the boss was. Sandwich time, my friend.

Edited by Raeln
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Stop being so lazy is what I think. Enjoy the environment. Use the time to think about what went wrong. This isn't team deathmatch.

 

Lazy? Are my legs n lungs getting a workout? Nope. I want to get back to the action faster. Long run backs are just a time waster and I hate wasting time. A speeder or a shortcut is very reasonable. Long run backs that can be avoided by design are just poor design. I've appreciated speeders and mounts and the use of speeders in orbital stations. Haven't you? Or are you putting your money where your mouth is and continuing to hoof it through those zones? I'd bet money you're mounting up...

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Lazy? Are my legs n lungs getting a workout? Nope. I want to get back to the action faster. Long run backs are just a time waster and I hate wasting time. A speeder or a shortcut is very reasonable. Long run backs that can be avoided by design are just poor design. I've appreciated speeders and mounts and the use of speeders in orbital stations. Haven't you? Or are you putting your money where your mouth is and continuing to hoof it through those zones? I'd bet money you're mounting up...

 

I wonder if he is one of those roleplayers that I saw on Tython walking everywhere during early access.

 

Now that would be lulzy - imagine an entire raid walking back through Denova after every wipe. Not riding a speeder, not running on foot - but roleplay walking. :p

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What I don't get is why the speeder in Denova isn't even instant like it is in KP, even that little fix would make the whole thing better. The runbacks are pretty horrid yes, and I just can't work out the reason for them. I know the runs are a million times shorter than they were in the early days of wow for example, but it really doesn't make them fine. It just makes the whole experience of killing a boss far less fun. If they actually want people to have to waste time to make boss kills take longer, they might as well just make the bosses 15% tougher. I'd much rather spend my time fighting a really hard boss than running around like an idiot. The actual fights are never boring, but the overall experience gets very tedious when it takes 10 minutes between tries.
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There is still people that speaks like this? Didnt the MMO player base mature already?

 

You really felt you needed to reply with such an unnecessary response, just because I used the word, "lulzy"?

 

Yes, there are people that still uses this term, it has nothing to do with maturity. Now, if you are finished trying to derail this topic, can we please return to the topic of how much time is wasted running back after a wipe in EC please?

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I really do think it is amazing the BW has built such a perfect game, that we are down to arguing about how long it takes to walk around places. But really, when did this ever become a problem to begin with? Walking...in a game......

 

On a side note: anyone remember the good ol' days of playing DOOM where you get lost and walked around empty corridors for hours looking for the exit? Did people complain about this back then too?

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I really do think it is amazing the BW has built such a perfect game, that we are down to arguing about how long it takes to walk around places. But really, when did this ever become a problem to begin with? Walking...in a game......

 

On a side note: anyone remember the good ol' days of playing DOOM where you get lost and walked around empty corridors for hours looking for the exit? Did people complain about this back then too?

 

There has never been a game that I spent hours walking around lost. There has been a couple games where I actually drew pencil maps (like Everquest 1) - but I never was lost for hours.

 

I have no problem walking places and exploring new things; however, when you are on wipe #10 - you've already seen that hillside 10 times. It's not just the 2 minute drive back for me but it's the waiting on other people as well. Let's not forget the 30 to 45 second load time for most of the raid to Fleet, then a 30 to 45 second load time back into the raid zone.

 

So realistically, since there are not field med centers after every boss - the real downtime per wipe approaches 5 minutes or more and that is not accounting for any AFK and Biobreak time. At 5 minutes per wipe, 10 wipes means at least 50 minutes. That is almost an hour of raid time wasted in just getting back to the raid boss and getting ready for the next pull.

 

Surely, after a decade of PvE raiding (more actually), some developer could be innovative enough to put a med center in the raid zone, close to where the wipe happened to eliminate the ~4 to 5 minutes of wasted time per wipe?

Edited by Raeln
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Do you absolutely have to be rude and offensive?

 

We're not talking about seconds, we're talking about minutes adding up. Over the course of 10 wipes, those minutes add up to be getting close to an hour of time where everyone in the raid is twiddling their thumbs while watching a loading screen, driving their speeder, and waiting for others to get back.

 

I don't know about you but while raiding, I'd like to spend as much time as possible trying to kill the boss. Not waste it oogling the same loading screen and hillside over and over.

Edited by Trineda
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Do you absolutely have to be rude and offensive?

 

We're not talking about seconds, we're talking about minutes adding up. Over the course of 10 wipes, those minutes add up to be getting close to an hour of time where everyone in the raid is twiddling their thumbs while watching a loading screen, driving their speeder, and waiting for others to get back.

 

I don't know about you but while raiding, I'd like to spend as much time as possible trying to kill the boss. Not waste it oogling the same loading screen and hillside over and over.

 

Or instead of twiddling there thumbs they are instead repairing gear, talking about what changes need to be made, and ensuring everyone is ready to go for the next attempt. Sounds like a good use of five minutes to me.

 

Maybe if you spent more time discussing what went wrong on the last attempt and less time just jumping back in, you would be less concerned with a wasted hour of raiding each night.

Edited by Codek
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Or instead of twiddling there thumbs they are instead repairing gear, talking about what changes need to be made, and ensuring everyone is ready to go for the next attempt. Sounds like a good use of five minutes to me.

 

You don't need to repair gear after every wipe.

 

Maybe if you spent more time discussing what went wrong on the last attempt and less time just jumping back in, you would be less concerned with a wasted hour of raiding each night.

 

There is some conversation about what went wrong but you know as well as I do that positional changes to the next attempt cannot be talked about while most of the raid is still driving back. Those things need discussed while everyone is at the scene, paying attention, and waiting on the pull.

 

What is so dreadfully wrong with respawning at a field med center near where the last boss died and eliminating the entire need to pointlessly zone out to the Fleet and back in on every wipe? For Denova, it makes perfect sense that the military backing your progress would setup support positions behind you as you go along - that is normal military operations. That would add immersion to the raid zone.

Edited by Raeln
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You don't need to repair gear after every wipe.

 

 

 

There is some conversation about what went wrong but you know as well as I do that positional changes to the next attempt cannot be talked about while most of the raid is still driving back. Those things need discussed while everyone is at the scene, paying attention, and waiting on the pull.

 

What is so dreadfully wrong with respawning at a field med center near where the last boss died and eliminating the entire need to pointlessly zone out to the Fleet and back in on every wipe? For Denova, it makes perfect sense that the military backing your progress would setup support positions behind you as you go along - that is normal military operations. That would add immersion to the raid zone.

 

There is nothing wrong with it. It's just one of the many things I view as unnecessary "ease of comfort" in gaming these days. The best example of what is wrong is WoW, so many things were implemented into that game that just made everything "easier" for the players. It was pathetic...And it just keeps adding up!

 

Also this being a post that is complaining about the run back, it's only logical to assume that once spawning is allowed in the instance, players will follow up with a cry for reviving next to bosses. Or request for instant travel to the boss. BW may even consider including transporting people outside the raid directly to the encounter. It's all just a nasty path that has already been taken in the past. All in the name of making things "easier"....

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There is nothing wrong with it. It's just one of the many things I view as unnecessary "ease of comfort" in gaming these days. The best example of what is wrong is WoW, so many things were implemented into that game that just made everything "easier" for the players. It was pathetic...And it just keeps adding up!

 

Also this being a post that is complaining about the run back, it's only logical to assume that once spawning is allowed in the instance, players will follow up with a cry for reviving next to bosses. Or request for instant travel to the boss. BW may even consider including transporting people outside the raid directly to the encounter. It's all just a nasty path that has already been taken in the past. All in the name of making things "easier"....

 

I'm ignoring your slippery slope fallacy. There is a large difference between eliminating unnecessary wastes of time and energy (loading out of the zone and back in needlessly) and spawning just right next to the boss.

 

I like how you ignored that I said the field med center should be where the last boss died. That leaves a bit of travel time from the previous boss to the current boss still.

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its part of the game.. part of the punishment... part of the experience... thats just the way it is...

 

lets say for instance, john doe, world famous baseball player hit a homerun.. everyone knows its a point.. but he still has to run around the bases, thats just the way it is. should the change the game because john is tired of running around the bases? i mean a homerun is a homerun right?

 

then the coach tells john to just run around the bases.. so john does.. then john realizes.. you know what? its not that big of a deal at all. :)

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