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the jedi consular vs the sith inquisitor


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I Imagine it assassin versus sage, so I would put it the inquisitor would win. Lightning is stronger then telekinetic powers. The inquisitor would shatter any projected rocks at him, to the point where the consular could only defend against the lightning and saber attacks, unable to even attack. Finally, his resolve will fail, and the inquisitor will dramatically kick the consular into a pit, saying In his Creapy and British voice:

"Watch your step Jedi."

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Also I might be wrong, but doesn't the shielding ability also have the effect of removing force ghosts? Or was that a one time thing?

 

It should be possible, but the ritual can't be used during a fight. The consular would have to win first and then shield the inquisitor.

 

I Imagine it assassin versus sage, so I would put it the inquisitor would win. Lightning is stronger then telekinetic powers. The inquisitor would shatter any projected rocks at him, to the point where the consular could only defend against the lightning and saber attacks, unable to even attack. Finally, his resolve will fail, and the inquisitor will dramatically kick the consular into a pit, saying In his Creapy and British voice:

"Watch your step Jedi."

 

Well, when you block lightning with your saber, it doesn't hit you. When you block a rock with your saber... you're hit by two rocks. And an assassin cannot be lightning specced, so his lightning wouldn't be that strong.

 

I can see the assassin winning, but not through "lightning". The assassin wins either by hitting the Sage by surprise (Deception specced), or by taking a defensive position and waiting until the Sage makes a mistake (Darkness specced). Zannah for example did the latter in many fights.

 

(I know I'm mixing story with game mechanics, but because of the vastly different fighting styles this is necessary.)

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Why do people keep suggesting that the Sith Inquisitor is nothing special without the force ghosts? it just sounds like you didn't even play through the story, as an Acolyte she did things that fully blown Sith Lords failed to do repeatedly and much later on in the story, the Imperial Guard state themselves that the Emperor was keeping an eye on her the whole time, stating that she was one of few Sith worthy of his attention.

 

Also keep in mind, she did not need the Ghosts to become powerful, it was a shortcut to that same power she always had.

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Uh... where is it stated that he's more powerful? You missed a lot of dialogue if you think you can use the shielding technique and be just fine. It's stated that it almost kills you. Of course, they screwed the pooch when they wrote the consular and that doesn't really show up beyond dialogue, but it's there.

 

Besides, we're talking about who would win in a fight. What's the consular gonna do? Shield him to death... from... uh...? It's a technique with a pretty limited application, whereas the Inquisitor's story ability seems pretty good for defense and attack. As a bonus...

 

 

The inquisitor gets to bind a DS or neutral Consular's ghost to himself after killing him! Yes!

 

With the shielding technique the JC could hypothetically free all of the SIth ghosts from the inquisitor, then proceed to kick the **** out of him.

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With the shielding technique the JC could hypothetically free all of the SIth ghosts from the inquisitor, then proceed to kick the **** out of him.

 

But as I said, shielding doesn't work in battle. (I like the consular much more than the Inquisitor, but this is just how it is in the game.)

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With the shielding technique the JC could hypothetically free all of the SIth ghosts from the inquisitor, then proceed to kick the **** out of him.

 

Again, you lot are acting like the SI is nothing without her ghosts, this couldn't be further from the truth.

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Revan and Satele Shan are both Consulars that about sums up who is the most powerful. Consular in storyline is pretty epic even if diplomat. No outside ghotst needed. Revan mentioned his spec tree I think which is balance. But he does do both jedi and sith powers.
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Well, yes, it could. Probably. It did block a ghost once. But the Consular had to fight every person he shielded before the ritual. So he would have to win against the Inquisitor first.

 

No. The shielding technique is a specific ritual designed to sever the plaguemaster's link--Morrhage--from controlling his victims. That's all it ever does. We may as well pretend that the ghostwalking ritual also allows the Inquisitor to bind the Consular in some way because at this point you're just trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

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No. The shielding technique is a specific ritual designed to sever the plaguemaster's link--Morrhage--from controlling his victims. That's all it ever does. We may as well pretend that the ghostwalking ritual also allows the Inquisitor to bind the Consular in some way because at this point you're just trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

 

But it can do more:

 

 

 

The conular tries to use the ritual on the the Balmorran president (it's an option, at least). It doesn't work, but not because it isn't designed for that, but because the man was broken by torture, not by DS corruption.

 

And when the consular shields Lord Vivicar, he deals with possession by a Sith ghost, not with a plague victim.

 

It is not that far from dealing with possession by a Sith ghost to dealing with a person who binds ghosts. It's not sure if it would work, though.

 

 

Again, you lot are acting like the SI is nothing without her ghosts, this couldn't be further from the truth.

 

Not nothing, but he/she is less powerful without the ghosts. He wouldn't win against Thanaton without them.

Edited by Maaruin
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But it can do more:

 

 

 

The conular tries to use the ritual on the the Balmorran president (it's an option, at least). It doesn't work, but not because it isn't designed for that, but because the man was broken by torture, not by DS corruption.

 

And when the consular shields Lord Vivicar, he deals with possession by a Sith ghost, not with a plague victim.

 

It is not that far from dealing with possession by a Sith ghost to dealing with a person who binds ghosts. It's not sure if it would work, though.

 

You kinda just demonstrated that it can't do more.

 

 

I don't remember the shield technique specifically being an option. The consular would know a number of healing techniques. In any case, if it is attempted, hey, it didn't work, because it wasn't designed for that.

 

Lord Vivicar *is* possessed by the plaguemaster. Morrhage. Parkanas came into contact with Morrhage, same as the Jedi masters had contact with Parkanas. In each case it allowed the plaguemaster to infest his victims. You can shield Vivicar because he is also a victim of the plague.

 

Edited by Sinemetu
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Not nothing, but he/she is less powerful without the ghosts. He wouldn't win against Thanaton without them.

 

That was because the SI took the shortcut to power, instead of choosing a much longer road, she was still powerful enough to do things that Sith Lords for generations couldn't do, like defeat Khem Val.

 

And Khem Val himself states that the Sith Inquisitor is the natural successor to Tulak Hord.

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You kinda just demonstrated that it can't do more.

 

 

I don't remember the shield technique specifically being an option. The consular would know a number of healing techniques. In any case, if it is attempted, hey, it didn't work, because it wasn't designed for that.

 

Lord Vivicar *is* possessed by the plaguemaster. Morrhage. Parkanas came into contact with Morrhage, same as the Jedi masters had contact with Parkanas. In each case it allowed the plaguemaster to infest his victims. You can shield Vivicar because he is also a victim of the plague.

 

 

The Consular (or Zenith) says explicitly that it doesn't work because he was not corrupted, but broken by torture.

 

And yes, Lord Vivicar is possessed by the plaguemaster, but possession is different from being affected by the plague. I guess the ritual was being created to counter the plague, not to counter, well everything that's somehow connected to Morrhage and nothing else.

 

 

That was because the SI took the shortcut to power, instead of choosing a much longer road, she was still powerful enough to do things that Sith Lords for generations couldn't do, like defeat Khem Val.

 

And Khem Val himself states that the Sith Inquisitor is the natural successor to Tulak Hord.

 

Yeah, but if you take a shortcut, and the way is closed right before the end, you have to go back and take the long way, while someone who took the long way is already there.

 

If the Inquisitor lost the ghosts, he would lack a lot of combat experience without them, unlike the Jedi consular. He could, of course, learn and train, but it would take time.

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Yeah, but if you take a shortcut, and the way is closed right before the end, you have to go back and take the long way, while someone who took the long way is already there.

 

If the Inquisitor lost the ghosts, he would lack a lot of combat experience without them, unlike the Jedi consular. He could, of course, learn and train, but it would take time.

 

Ah but the SI doesn't need to, you see, the SI still learns and grows in her own time right up towards the end of the story, Zash notes it.

 

 

and Thanaton at the very end comments on your progress by stating 'You never even needed them did you? you just, stacked the deck...' *Insert Emperor like cackle from the SI here* then bats away Thanaton's lightning like it's a fly.

Edited by Rayla_Felana
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The Consular (or Zenith) says explicitly that it doesn't work because he was not corrupted, but broken by torture.

 

And yes, Lord Vivicar is possessed by the plaguemaster, but possession is different from being affected by the plague. I guess the ritual was being created to counter the plague, not to counter, well everything that's somehow connected to Morrhage and nothing else.

 

Yes, Zenith is TOTALLY an expert on arcane force rituals and we should take his word on it. /sarcasm. But seriously, that's your argument? Zenith, or maybe the Consular (who is probably just making some BS guess like doctors do).

 

 

Actually, the evidence contradicts your assumption. The ritual works on everything connected with Morrhage and his plague and nothing else. Heck, you're even contradicting yourself. You want to say that the ritual works on possession, but then you say the plague is NOT possession ("but possession is different from being affected by the plague") even though the ritual obviously does work on it. The simple fact--and this is stated explicitly when you're taught the ritual--is that it severs the link between plaguemaster and victim. That's what it does and all it does, every time, from Yuon to Vivicar. Different plaguemaster, same ritual, same results. Any time it is used somewhere else, the ritual fails.

 

 

If the Inquisitor lost the ghosts, he would lack a lot of combat experience without them, unlike the Jedi consular. He could, of course, learn and train, but it would take time.

 

The ghosts don't give combat experience. In point of fact, the inquisitor has a heck of a lot more combat experience fighting powerful force-users than the consular, with or without ghosts. Heck, the inquisitor takes out a Darth before leaving DK or getting any ghosts. She used a trick, yes, but that's war.

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Yes, Zenith is TOTALLY an expert on arcane force rituals and we should take his word on it. /sarcasm. But seriously, that's your argument? Zenith, or maybe the Consular (who is probably just making some BS guess like doctors do).

 

 

Actually, the evidence contradicts your assumption. The ritual works on everything connected with Morrhage and his plague and nothing else. Heck, you're even contradicting yourself. You want to say that the ritual works on possession, but then you say the plague is NOT possession ("but possession is different from being affected by the plague") even though the ritual obviously does work on it. The simple fact--and this is stated explicitly when you're taught the ritual--is that it severs the link between plaguemaster and victim. That's what it does and all it does, every time, from Yuon to Vivicar. Different plaguemaster, same ritual, same results. Any time it is used somewhere else, the ritual fails.

 

 

 

 

The ghosts don't give combat experience. In point of fact, the inquisitor has a heck of a lot more combat experience fighting powerful force-users than the consular, with or without ghosts. Heck, the inquisitor takes out a Darth before leaving DK or getting any ghosts. She used a trick, yes, but that's war.

 

 

My thesis: The ritual can block any kind of DS mind control/ DS influence of one person over the other. It was created for the plague, but the consular also used it to counter possession and it would also have worked if the other person was mind controlled by a Sith.

 

Your thesis: The same, but only if it is connected to Morrhage.

 

I doubt that the ritual was created to counter a specific person, but to counter a specific phenomenon. The Consular then expands it's use.

 

 

The idea to shield Vivicar was not part of the original ritual. It was an idea the consular had and by doing it he risked his live.

 

 

And Zenith is of course no expert of Force rituals, but he knows about the effects of torture. Rewatched it and have the exact wording:

 

 

Consular: "I know a technique that helps people driven mad by darkness."

Zenith: "Then try it."

Consular does the shielding ritual (movements are the same as in the other instances).

President (after the ritual): "Nnn - no. Can't be. Can't be. Go 'way."

Zenith: "Feared this. He's broken, not corrupted."

 

 

So the Consular assumes the ritual can heal/help "people driven mad by darkness". But it also works against possession. So he could at least try it against the Inquisitor, there is a chance it might cut the connections to the ghosts as well. But since he can only do it after the fight, it doesn't matter for the confrontation.

 

 

But when we're that much into detail: What do the ghosts do?

 

I know they don't give combat experience, but I thought the when the inquisitor is fighting, he uses their power. If not, the only thing they can do is keep you alive when you're dead and explode you in lightning.

 

 

Oh, by the way, the consular takes down a Jedi Master without tricks on Coruscant. And Taris. And Nar Shadda. And...

 

 

Ah but the SI doesn't need to, you see, the SI still learns and grows in her own time right up towards the end of the story, Zash notes it.

 

 

and Thanaton at the very end comments on your progress by stating 'You never even needed them did you? you just, stacked the deck...' *Insert Emperor like cackle from the SI here* then bats away Thanaton's lightning like it's a fly.

 

Yeah, but my point was that without the ghosts, he would have to adapt. But since the Jedi Consular can't shield before the fight, it's kind of irrelevant.

 

 

So you are saying the the Sith Inquisitor never needed the ghosts and just used them to be... a little more powerful? Die without dying? Avoid being killed by Darth Andru? So the whole chapter 2 was only of minor importance?

Well, if that's the case,... I'd still say it would be a close fight and the outcome depends on preperation.

 

Edited by Maaruin
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The jedi consular may be directly stated as one of the most powerful force users but if you've played through the Inquisitor story you would recall...

 

The inquisitor's trials were specified to kill them, every time Harcun sent you away he expected you to die. Also from what I gather, slaves don't get formal training they just hand them a training saber and send them to their trials and only the naturally strong survive. Next, you are the heir of ancient sith rulers, a naturally strong family line. Zash only picked you for the raw power you posseses, expecting to take your body with her superior knowlege and her various rituals. You are on record the only sith to survive the Force binding ritual since Urgast. Khem calls you the heir of Tulak Hord one of the most powerful force users of all time. Finally, the only reason Thanaton defeats you at all is because he knows all sorts of crazy rituals through years of experience and you're just a start up.

 

Oh! and there's the Ghosts of course!

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My thesis: The ritual can block any kind of DS mind control/ DS influence of one person over the other. It was created for the plague, but the consular also used it to counter possession and it would also have worked if the other person was mind controlled by a Sith.

 

Your thesis: The same, but only if it is connected to Morrhage.

 

That's not my thesis. I don't have a thesis. I'm going off what the game tells you: it's a specific ritual ("shielding") used to counter another specific ritual ("Morrhage's plague"). It severs the link between the plaguemaster and victim. Period. End of story. There's 0 evidence it can do anything more. The consular tried to uses it for something else, and it didn't work, and there's no evidence it would have worked. There is no case where it's used to counter possession, unless you want to say the plague itself is possession.

 

 

It works on Vivicar because Morrhage is the plaguemaster and Vivicar is the victim. It works on Yuon because she is the victim and Vivicar is the plaguemaster.

 

 

It's really very simple. I don't know why you're trying to make the shielding ritual into something it's not.

 

I doubt that the ritual was created to counter a specific person, but to counter a specific phenomenon. The Consular then expands it's use.

 

Well, except for the fact that there's no instance of this phenomenon occurring without Morrhage's control. But whatever. I'm sure that's not relevant. You keep on saying untrue things. The consular failed to expand its use. Saying "well it would have worked!" is nothing more than speculation without support, and I find it irritating that you keep on insisting on this point. That particular piece of evidence is not in your favor.

 

The idea to shield Vivicar was not part of the original ritual. It was an idea the consular had and by doing it he risked his live.

 

 

Unless you mean Vivicar wasn't alive, that's untrue. The original ritual *was* designed to work against Morrhage's control. Didn't you listen to what he told you? Shielding the last victim and leaving Morrhage's spirit on whatever planet is how the previous plague ended, as well.

 

 

So the Consular assumes the ritual can heal/help "people driven mad by darkness". But it also works against possession. So he could at least try it against the Inquisitor, there is a chance it might cut the connections to the ghosts as well. But since he can only do it after the fight, it doesn't matter for the confrontation.

 

Ok... so you're insisting on this possession angle despite the fact that that's not how the consular describes it? Can you find any place where this ritual is described as an exorcism type deal?

 

Oh, by the way, the consular takes down a Jedi Master without tricks on Coruscant. And Taris. And Nar Shadda. And...

 

Big whup. Jedi Masters are not all that. Look, let me put it this way.

 

 

At the end, the Jedi is on his council and the Sith is on hers. You know how you get on the Dark Council? You have to kill one of the most dangerous people in the galaxy. Jedi Council... not so much. Demonstrate leadership and be wise. It's probably better requirements for a leadership position, but in terms of who's more dangerous, there's no contest, there. Heck, the Consular doesn't even take down the First Son without help. And honestly, if you really think the ritual works on possession, why doesn't the Consular use it on the First Son?

 

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Big whup. Jedi Masters are not all that.

 

 

 

And darths are?

 

Please, explain how a darth is automatically so much more powerful than a jedi master?

 

Both are 'promoted' to their rank by different standards, its not possible to compare strength without knowing who specifically is involved.

 

 

All the jedi masters you fight as a consular, are all more experienced than you, presumed stronger than you, have vastly more knowledge and are all incredibly important in the 'galactic war'. Darth skotia was some random nobody who happened to be mostly machine...no back story on him at all outside of being Zash's rival.

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That's not my thesis. I don't have a thesis. I'm going off what the game tells you:

 

No, you are going beyond what the game tells you.

 

it's a specific ritual ("shielding") used to counter another specific ritual ("Morrhage's plague"). It severs the link between the plaguemaster and victim.

 

And because it was created for that, you assume that it can't do anything more at all and can't be used in any other situation. The game does say it is the only counter for Morrhage plage, it does not say that it can do nothing more than countering Morrhage's plague. That's your thesis.

 

Period. End of story. There's 0 evidence it can do anything more.

 

There is, if the control of Morrhage over Parkanas was different to the plague. I'll go deeper into that later.

 

The consular tried to uses it for something else, and it didn't work, and there's no evidence it would have worked.

 

But he gave it a try and the most reason most likely was not connected to the ritual, but to the patient. So the only evidence we have is that the consular had the option to think it would work. Which says of course nothing about the ritual at all. It might have worked or it might not have worked. If he knew that it was of use only against Morrhage, he wouldn't have tried it.

 

There is no case where it's used to counter possession, unless you want to say the plague itself is possession.

 

The point I'm trying to make the whole time is that having a ghost in your body that controls your actions is different to having your mind gradually affected from the distance. One is possession, the other is (as the Noeticons state), a specific form of mind control.

 

It works on Vivicar because Morrhage is the plaguemaster and Vivicar is the victim. It works on Yuon because she is the victim and Vivicar is the plaguemaster.

 

 

It's really very simple. I don't know why you're trying to make the shielding ritual into something it's not.

 

 

Vivicar is no plague victim and Morrhage is not his plaguemaster. All victims treat the plaguemaster as a different person and the plaguemaster treats them as different persons. They start seing him in the shadows and talking to them. Than they go mad and try to do crazy things. Some of them even don't want to hear Vivicars voice.

Vivicar himself on the other hand hears no voice at all. He is completely controlled by a ghost inside his body. For the ghost he is "a skin to be shed". That's totally different to the plague.

 

 

 

Well, except for the fact that there's no instance of this phenomenon occurring without Morrhage's control. But whatever. I'm sure that's not relevant. You keep on saying untrue things. The consular failed to expand its use. Saying "well it would have worked!" is nothing more than speculation without support, and I find it irritating that you keep on insisting on this point. That particular piece of evidence is not in your favor.

 

I'm trying to explain better what I want to say. The LS consular succeeded to expand it. See above and below.

 

Unless you mean Vivicar wasn't alive, that's untrue. The original ritual *was* designed to work against Morrhage's control. Didn't you listen to what he told you? Shielding the last victim and leaving Morrhage's spirit on whatever planet is how the previous plague ended, as well.

 

Not true.

 

 

Master Chamma: "Death was what broke the hold of the original plaguemaster, Terrek Morrhege. But there may be another way."

Morrhage was alive during the last plague, and the shielding ritual was never used against ghosts before.

 

 

Ok... so you're insisting on this possession angle despite the fact that that's not how the consular describes it? Can you find any place where this ritual is described as an exorcism type deal?

 

I can find a place where it is used as an exorcism type deal. On Vivicar's ship.

 

Big whup. Jedi Masters are not all that. Look, let me put it this way.

 

 

At the end, the Jedi is on his council and the Sith is on hers. You know how you get on the Dark Council? You have to kill one of the most dangerous people in the galaxy. Jedi Council... not so much. Demonstrate leadership and be wise. It's probably better requirements for a leadership position, but in terms of who's more dangerous, there's no contest, there. Heck, the Consular doesn't even take down the First Son without help. And honestly, if you really think the ritual works on possession, why doesn't the Consular use it on the First Son?

 

Doesn't change the fact that the Inquisitor needad lots of preparation against Skotia and the Consular wasn't even prepared to fight against Yuon. And for more comparison: On Alderaan the Inquisitor fights against Knights, while the Jedi Consular fights against a Master.

 

 

Jedi have to earn there place on on the Council too, and many do it through battle. The Jedi Consular defeated one of the most dangerous people in the galaxy. Syo Bakarn was a leading member of the Jedi Council, while Thanaton IIRC was in the second or third row, behind Marr, Jadus and Vowrawn.

 

And what do you mean he doesn't take down the First Son without help. He has the help of one companion, like the SI. And unlike the SI he didn't have ghosts to help him. Or do you mean he didn't take the Guardian Holds without help? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Sith Inquisitor had a fleet too.

 

And why doesn't he use the ritual? Because after the battle, wehn he could use it, Syo breakes the First Son's control on his own.

 

Edited by Maaruin
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And darths are?

 

Please, explain how a darth is automatically so much more powerful than a jedi master?

 

Both are 'promoted' to their rank by different standards, its not possible to compare strength without knowing who specifically is involved.

 

 

All the jedi masters you fight as a consular, are all more experienced than you, presumed stronger than you, have vastly more knowledge and are all incredibly important in the 'galactic war'. Darth skotia was some random nobody who happened to be mostly machine...no back story on him at all outside of being Zash's rival.

 

A Darth has to kill his master to achieve his rank. THEN they have to continually defend his position, lest risk being permanently evicted. Masters don't have to worry about rivals stabbing you in the back and are in a definite sense of comfort "at home" where as the Sith cannot afford to do that.

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  • 1 year later...
I don't know, I think the SI could give the Consular a run for their money, if you're just talking raw power in the force.

 

The SI is probably the weakest in the force. To make up for this he cheats. He goes around absorbing other sith's energy and claiming it as his own.

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