Just to be clear, this thread is advocating an in-game Bioware built tool and not a third-party addon.

Recount is not just a "damage meter"... it is a graphical interface which allows you to view group activity in the combat log i.e. Damage Done over the duration of the fight by each player, Friendly Fire, Damage Taken, Healing Done, Absorbs, Healing Taken, Overhealing Done, Deaths, DOT Uptime, HOT Uptime, Player Combat Activity, Dispels, The Dispelled, Interrupts, Ressers, CC Breakers, Resources Gained, etc.

I believe these tools play an important role in identifying whether a player is doing well or under-performing. Nevertheless, these graphs should be the starting point an indicator that you should be looking more closely at the situation. Used wisely, a tool like this could greatly improve guild performance.

Some individuals are fearful of an "elitist" backlash caused by the improper use of such a tool. Nevertheless, people have also argued that this tool would actually curb elitist behavior based on FACTS and DATA rather than Gear, Achievements, Spec, Gut Feeling or Favoritism.

The inevitability of undesirable behavior isn't something we can escape in a massive online community, so the real question is...

Would you rather be castigated based on factual data or would you rather take your chances with the "hunch" of a self seeking jerk?

With Recount

Jerk: Dude please leave the group your DPS sucks.

Without Recount

Jerk: Dude please leave the group you are wearing a green helm and your gear isn't good enough for this encounter. (You get kicked, even if you were top DPS)

-

EDIT: It would also totally eliminate "recount spam". They could disable all data broadcasts... If everyone has access to the information there would be no need to broadcast the results.

EDIT UPDATE:

-

During the speed-fire round starting at 13:00 in the video. Georg confirms an out of game COMBAT LOG!

People will have access to combat logs please bring a recount version in the game!

I think Georg Zoeller understands our pain for not having a combat log at launch, let's hope they "get it right" and quickly.

People who don't like Recount.

Because the previous thread has exceeded our normal threshold for thread length, we've started this new thread for the community to discuss the topic of .

As always, we ask that the community keep the following things on mind when responding:

1. No insults, name calling, or personal attacks
   
2. Please stay on topic.
   
3. Please express your opinion and thoughts in a constructive, respectful manner.
   
4. If someone violates the , please flag it instead of replying to it.
   
5. Keep in mind that everyone has different viewpoints. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're trolling. If you believe someone is trolling, please use the Flag function to report their post.

Thank you and enjoy the discussion!

I'm in favor of combat logs.

If someone wants to make a combat parser, I'll probably use it. Helps me optimize my performance.

NO they are making a Damage meter available for PERSONAL use. IE you can see your own damage but not others.

Which is great right up until the point I want to know whether or not i'm performing as well as I could but have nothing at all to compare myself with.

Which is great right up until the point I want to know whether or not i'm performing as well as I could but have nothing at all to compare myself with.

and that is fine. I am against doing a group or raid recount. Personal is fine group or raid is bad

Yes - group meters are needed. I can understand that people knowing each others relative performance seems to scare the snot of some folks - but the access to such information has much more positive benefits than negative.

... and no, that one time that dude in Heroic SFK yelled at you for being out DPS'd by the healer isn't a reason not to have it.

NO they are making a Damage meter available for PERSONAL use. IE you can see your own damage but not others.

Not true at all.

and that is fine. I am against doing a group or raid recount. Personal is fine group or raid is bad

No it's not fine. Well not unless you don't actually care in the slightest about whether or not you're performing as well as you could be or if you're holding your group back.

Which is great right up until the point I want to know whether or not i'm performing as well as I could but have nothing at all to compare myself with.

No worries, if you followed the cookie cutter instructions for your class it should not be a problem. Further evaluation can be obtained via the personal combat log.

and that is fine. I am against doing a group or raid recount. Personal is fine group or raid is bad

Why is it fine? I guess if you don't mind settling for average it's fine but being able to compare with others helps you become a better player.

No worries, if you followed the cookie cutter instructions for your class it should not be a problem. Further evaluation can be obtained via the personal combat log.

Evaluation which tells you nothing when you have nothing to compare it with.

Make it hide during combat so you don't get DPS racing to the top of the meters and ignoring aggro.

That is.... IF they absolutely MUST add a damage meter, I'd just before none at all.

Evaluation which tells you nothing when you have nothing to compare it with.

Ah OK. You want to see who is bigger. You could just ask.

I have bad news for you. The personal combat log is Bioware's way of saying you're not getting "recount."

Ah OK. You want to see who is bigger. You could just ask.

No, I want to effectively gauge my performance because I care about it.

I have bad news for you. The personal combat log is Bioware's way of saying you're not getting "recount."

Given that they haven't actually confirmed that all we're getting is a personal combat log (that claim is based on an interpretation of what was said) then i'm not going to get too worked up at the moment about this 'bad news'.

Evaluation which tells you nothing when you have nothing to compare it with.

Ah - so, apparently your problem is you are incapable of communicating with anyone in game... gotcha

Considering how many posts you've made in this thread, I would've thought for sure you were capable of asking Guildmates who played your class what their numbers were, as well as going to the inevitable "Post your best Results/Specs" threads that will appear within 5 minutes of the Personal Meters going live in the PTR

If you (or nobody in your Guild) is capable of trusting each other when discussing strats/metrics on really tough content then you have far more serious problems than "needing" an in-game Group Meter

Yes - group meters are needed. I can understand that people knowing each others relative performance seems to scare the snot of some folks - but the access to such information has much more positive benefits than negative.

 

 

... and no, that one time that dude in Heroic SFK yelled at you for being out DPS'd by the healer isn't a reason not to have it.

People played MMOs before anyone even considered these meters, and people still play games that dont even consider using them, and guess what, these players is said games STILL manage to do perfectly fine WITHOUT these stupid meters you demand.

I can mention LOTRO, AOC, STO, just off the top of my head.

Please explain to me how players in other, and here in SWTOR can do perfectly fine WITHOUT these meters since you seem to think that they cannot do so without having them.

The way I see it is that you are so used to having these meters that that you are afraid you will not be able to do well enough without them.

For you its like a drug, you must have it no matter if its good or bad for you.

If you think these things are so essential to play, why do you play for a day/week without them and show us how good you really are.

Ah OK. You want to see who is bigger. You could just ask.

 

 

I have bad news for you. The personal combat log is Bioware's way of saying you're not getting "recount."

lol

The combat log will not be personal. People who interpreted it that way have poor Reading comprehension.

Ah - so, apparently your problem is you are incapable of communicating with anyone in game... gotcha

 

Considering how many posts you've made in this thread, I would've thought for sure you were capable of asking Guildmates who played your class what their numbers were, as well as going to the inevitable "Post your best Results/Specs" threads that will appear within 5 minutes of the Personal Meters going live in the PTR

 

If you (or nobody in your Guild) is capable of trusting each other when discussing strats/metrics on really tough content then you have far more serious problems than "needing" an in-game Group Meter

No, I have no problem with communicating with people in game but why have people swap combat logs after the fight when you can just simplify it and have everyone's combat log record everything that happens in the fight? And who's to say that people aren't going to get fed up with being pestered after fights for copies of their combat logs?

With a full combat log and recount a guild can very quickly review the results of a fight before they try again. With personal combat logs then they all need to be collated and parsed before they can be reviewed. How is that a better system for improvement? It has nothing to do with trust and everything to do with efficiency and providing a better system.

these players is said games STILL manage to do perfectly fine WITHOUT these stupid meters you demand.

it's not about someone's ability to do well without a meter. that's not even an issue, as a meter doesn't change how YOU play at all. why would it?

meters are so you can find out who went AFK to watch judge judy during your raid and made 39 other people waste their day.

meters are so you can find out who went AFK to watch judge judy during your raid and made 39 other people waste their day.

If this was the only reason that people used dmg parsers i would be 100% for them. Problem is there not used for that, they are used to belittle minor discrepancies in a players gear and skill at playing there character.

Parsers turn a game of community into a game of just numbers and E-Peenery.

If you could keep those rude holier then thou players who think a few DPS/HPS less then them is grounds to belittle and begrudge others out of the game then i am sure a parser would be fine. You can't so i am not for there use.

I write this from the perspective of one of those rude holier then thou players, i was one fo those douche-bags that felt the need to point out other players flaws and faults, until someone took the time to talk to me without anger and showed me how detrimental my attitude was towards other players.

I do not want any 3rd party programs in SWTOR, they enable lazy gamers, open gateways to hackers/spoofers/phishers/fraudsters to players who might not be as net-savvy as most of us are.

Please Bioware, give us a combat log, but stop there, no more is needed.

I don't want a bioware one, I want a third party one.

Bioware can NOT be trusted to develop UI elements.

it's not about someone's ability to do well without a meter. that's not even an issue, as a meter doesn't change how YOU play at all. why would it?

 

meters are so you can find out who went AFK to watch judge judy during your raid and made 39 other people waste their day.

If you can't tell that an idiot went afk without meters you you have bigger issues than needing meters. Especially since ALL combat moves in this game are active, meaning there are no auto attacks. Even in a game with auto attacks you could tell if someone went afk in combat unless you were staring at your ui instead of paying attention to the game.