Tanks are not doing so hot...why? because there is a lack of a threat meter. a Threat meter is a tool that helps the tank do his job correctly, how can DPS know how much aggro they are doing until its too late? then the tank has to go down hunting that one guy. and healing causes a lot more threat than people think. I think that an optional threat meter would be a great asset to tanks everywhere...and it would make for a much smoother Flashpoint experience. Edited December 28, 2011 by DaJuza

if tanks are not doing so well you have two choice:

 

ask them to review their skills / talent tree to see what skill does what damage and what CD they have in order to build threat fast

 

or ask the dps to hold back and not starting to nuke the second he lands 1 hit

 

 

i really love the idea to play without addons

 

no more dps meter spam , people need to use their brains instead of depending on addons to do it for them

 

we have to evaluate everything on our own : every action has a reaction

Edited December 28, 2011 by Alegoss

I think the problem with "Tanks" is that alot of them are new to MMO's, hence have a hard time understanding threat management (and this can be true for every other class spamming dps/ heal abilities and not watching threat) You should be able to get a feel for if and when your going to turn a mob from a tank (assuming this isnt a multi mob pull with no real CC'er and or a bad tank just not taunting) Im only lvl 27 (sent) but i can 99% of the time call when im gonna turn a mob off the MT, IMO knowing your class well enough to know when your gonna yank aggro is a million times more benifical to you and EVERYONE you play with then having some cheesy easy-mode tool telling you when to press your taunts/threat dumps.

You have problems with tanking in flashpoints?

OMG.

 

 

Hint:

- Learn which abilities generate most threat, which generate almost none.

- You don't need to tank every single opponent on the map, just these doing significant amount of damage.

- Don't attack only a single target if you do crowd control. Some of AoE attacks also don't work well for crowd control. Better jump between targets with your threat generators.

 

For other hints - look for TOR Tanking Guides on google.

 

{edit:}

no more dps meter spam, people need to use their brains instead of depending on addons to do it for them

This, this, 100 times this.

Game is suppose to be a challenge, not a spreadsheed which you just read.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Sky_walkerPL

if tanks are not doing so well you have two choice:

 

ask them to review their skills / talent tree to see what skill does what damage and what CD they have in order to build threat fast

 

or ask the dps to hold back and not starting to nuke the second he lands 1 hit

 

 

i really love the idea to play without addons

 

no more dps meter spam , people need to use their brains instead of depending on addons to do it for them

 

we have to evaluate everything on our own : every action has a reaction

 

Amen!

I think WoW has made you soft. A threat meter is a terrible idea, either your tanks need to learn how to tank and build threat, or your over geared dps needs to know when to slow it down. Most MMOs don't have threat meters, and IMO only noobs would want/need one. My tanks have no issues holding threat. We've cleared every hard mode flashpoint and eternity vault. I am capable of pulling aggro with my marauder but only if I dont give the tank 10 seconds before really getting into it, it's all about control. Edited December 28, 2011 by Kioski

Just because WoW had a threat meter doesn't mean every game now needs one, you've become spoiled and don't even know anymore how to play without crutches. People have tanked just fine in other games without threat meters.

 

Just ask the DPS to wait a few secs so the tank can build up threat before going all out.

This meter, that meter and the other meter. As long as people get thru the fight and survive, it's all good. No meters needed.

I'm ecstatic that tanking isn't dumbed down to WoW standards and that threat isn't a non-issue.

 

If I blow up a mob 100% as a Merc, I'm going to pull aggro. That's the way it should be. I have a detaunt that I use for such a situation.

 

If the tank pulls 4-5 mobs and I blow all my aoes off the start of a pull, there's nothing in the world that's going to save me from a swift death.

 

After a while, you learn how much you can do before you pull. Like the above poster said, I can almost exactly pinpoint when I'm about to pull aggro off a tank. Give the tank a few seconds before opening up and you won't have a problem (unless he's just terrible but that's another issue altogether).

 

EDIT: If you're constantly pulling, have the tank Guard you, or a healer yank you. Both also lower threat generated.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Mobiwang

Guard is my threat meter.

If you has guard and are taking aggro, then threat meter is calling me terrible=(

is the target attacking you? no you say, well then you need more agro

Combat in older MMOs (such as EQ) was a much slower affair. The mobs didn't attack as fast, you couldn't chain abilities as fast - which meant that you actually had a chance to see the mob turn and face you if you aggro'd it. There were spells in EQ that took 10 seconds to cast before they'd land. You even had a chance to *chat* during a fight most of the time. Except for the CH-slaves who had to face the wall and count to 10.

 

WoW and the modern MMOs have introduced a much faster pace of combat. A spell or ability that takes more then 3-4 seconds is considered slow-paced. A lot more spells are instant-cast or with timers of a second. Mobs generally die within 10-20 seconds, boss fights in instances usually only last 30-50 seconds. Omen2 for aggro-monitoring was a required addon in WoW's raiding scene, even back during Burning Crusade.

 

The faster pace makes it a lot harder to judge whether you are creeping up on a tank's threat too quickly.

I wouldn't go so far as saying that any addon was *required* for raiding.

No need for a threat meter. If its attacking you, you have threat.

You do not need an add on to tell you when the mob is hitting you, Threat meters are a joke and to rely on one is an even bigger joke.

people need to use their brains instead of depending on addons to do it for them

 

^ ^ I think Alegoss nailed it.

I'd like to know when a boss is about to hit me. I mean, it's not game breaking or anything, I just start DPS slowly and let the tank aggro like a good little DPSer.

 

With that said, I do like not having addons...everything I need for the game is there for the most part.

 

You do not need an add on to tell you when the mob is hitting you, Threat meters are a joke and to rely on one is an even bigger joke.

Threat meters are not necessary.

 

What is necessary, as far as PvE progression is concerned, is a combat log.

Edited December 28, 2011 by eunichron

It cracks me up how elitist so many people on this board behave. (no, not you. You are the picture of open mindedness and acceptance).

 

First of all, let's be clear: DPS meter DOES NOT equal threat meter. DPS meters have specific dps numbers and lead to epeen problems. Threat meters only need to show relative values to be effective. Who am I kidding, the people that don't get that have already stopped reading.

 

Threat meters are a crutch for newer/less attentive players (or since most here only seems to understand insults: lazy players). A good DPSer will wait the few seconds it takes the tank to get agro. They will also use their survival abilities and stop attacking if they do draw agro so the tank can get the mob back and the healer doesn't have to panic.

 

But as many here love to point out, many players aren't up to that skill level. They will keep blasting as the mob rips them apart and blame everyone else when they die. So the options are:

 

-They get better

-They get frustrated and quit

-BW provides tools to help the less qualified

 

While I would love option 1 to happen players raised on WoW and console games appear more likely to just whine on the boards or....

 

They quit. While great for the elite/arrogant who didn't want them here in the first place, this will be bad for BWs income statement so they will eventually ....

 

Make changes to appeal to the masses. They didn't use the Star Wars licence to make a niche game that doesn't work for the vast, casual masses.

 

For all the hate WoW has created it did one thing very right. It made tonnes of money. As the plethora of movie sequels show, investors (the people with the kind of money needed to make these games and pay BW employee salaries) want as close to a sure thing as possible.

 

If things really are that challenging for the average player BW will make changes. They will never admit it, but they would rather have every person that posts on these board quit the game forever then lose the casual payer, I mean player. Argue all you want the dollars don't lie.

 

 

TL;DR Changes will be made and oh how I will snicker when these boards explode with all the nerdrage The "I'm quitting this carebear, baby mode game" posts will be legendary.

TL;DR Changes will be made and oh how I will snicker when these boards explode with all the nerdrage The "I'm quitting this carebear, baby mode game" posts will be legendary.

 

This ^^ is how it will go. The majority of the money comes from casuals. I personally don't see a need for a threat meter. But some people feel like they are crippled without it. *shrug*

I don't much care either way. My only beef is with tools that encourage elitism and downright rude behavior. "****!!! You don't have high enough gear!!!!11" or cross server tools that encourage selfish greedy jerks to be selfish greedy jerks with absolutely no accountability.

I don't get the fuss against dps meters. The only logical reasoning for someone to be against it is because they suck at doing the dps they should be doing, and have gotten kicked out of a guild because of it. You can't progress in raids at a reasonable pace without these meters. Without these meters, you will never know who is the deadweight in the raid. It is THAT simple. Not to mention, the meters provide a lot more information than just dps.

 

Same thing goes for threat meters. Any player needs to have some kind of indication as to when they are about to pull the boss. Now, if bioware decides to not include threat meters, then they better tune their flashpoints and operations so that the tank has a reasonable amount of time to get threat back.

 

But here is the problem. Bioware hasn't done that. FP Hard modes ARE WAAAAY over-tuned. Most of them are possible, but quite a few of them are bugged, or simply expect too much from the players. The best example I can give you is the last boss from Boarding Party. And I'm pretty sure the Operations are on the same boat.

 

Granted, the game is only over a week old since launch. Most if not all hard mode encounters are gonna get nerfed or fixed. But even then, at least from the POV of a sith juggernaut, it is such a pain in the *** to maintain control of multiple enemies, especially when their so spread out.

 

You don't want the inclusion of threat meters or dps meters? Fine, keep playing normal mode FPs and Ops. Cause those are freaking jokes, you can lose aggro all you want and suck at the dps all you want for those. But set foot on hard modes, and trust me, your going to wish you could figure out who is the deadweight in your guild that is slowing down your progression.

 

And let me emphasis something in case you couldn't figure it out on your own. I am specifically talking about the need of these meters/addons for HARD MODES, not "this stuff is so easy, why do people whine for meters mode" aka. normal mode.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Pintaphilly

You don't want the inclusion of threat meters or dps meters? Fine, keep playing normal mode FPs and Ops. Cause those are freaking jokes, you can lose aggro all you want and suck at the dps all you want for those. But set foot on hard modes, and trust me, your going to wish you could figure out who is the deadweight in your guild that is slowing down your progression.

 

Maybe that dead weight is you. And who gives a crap about the speed of progression, is it a race? A competition? I play to have fun, not to rag on some other player because he isn't squeezing out the last 1% of performance. You are just what I was talking about. Need a meter so you can feel like you are elite. Well let me tell you, being good at a video game doesn't make you elite at all, its just being a self important twonk with a video game obsession.

Maybe that dead weight is you. And who gives a crap about the speed of progression, is it a race? A competition? I play to have fun, not to rag on some other player because he isn't squeezing out the last 1% of performance. You are just what I was talking about. Need a meter so you can feel like you are elite. Well let me tell you, being good at a video game doesn't make you elite at all, its just being a self important twonk with a video game obsession.

 

That is the difference between you and me my friend. The competition for raid progression, believe or not, is fun for a large portion of the MMO community. You play this game for another reason, and I don't even care what that reason is. And if I was the deadweight, I would love to know if I am, SO THAT I CAN IMPROVE. That is what the meters provide. I used to raid hardcore back in WoW since the Vanilla days up until the release of Cata. These meters are a damn blessing.

 

And who ever said I was an elite? All these assumptions your making have no reasoning behind them. Your just putting words in my mouth. And if that's actually what you assume of other people, THEN LOL, you got some problems yourself mate. The amount of stereotypical assumptions you just made tells me, that you got some real problems yourself. Hell, you must've had a horrible experience with a past raiding guild. Of course there are people with elitist attitudes, with or without meters. We don't even accept that type of attitude in our guild, not even in the one that I was in for WoW.

 

Hell, you get people who are horrible at dps who have an elitist attitude, despite being shown proof of their bad performance. And not only that, they also refuse to LISTEN TO ADVICE from their guildies, because they strongly believe that what their doing is the best way to do. Again, despite being shown proof of the opposite. I am pretty sure this type of person is you.

 

And if you don't care how fast you go through progression, THEN GOOD FOR YOU. I'm sure wiping and crawling through raids on every single boss and taking 10x longer than it should to successfully down a boss for the first time is fun for you. And I'm sure the reason behind that is because your doing it with friends. And guess what? I am also doing it with friends, only with a different mindset.

 

We have different reasons to play this game. Everyone does. Deal with it.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Pintaphilly

Each person has a different reason for playing MMO's, deal with it.

 

You got that right.

 

And your own post claims your leet dude. Want to know who is dead weight blah blah yadda yadda. and then posting your leet experience raiding wow for many years just added to it.

 

I don't give a damn how many years you wasted striving for that last 1%, is that supposed to be impressive? The only impression it gives me is that you obsess over a video game to the point of dehumanizing other real people. "dead weight". Pfft. Who cares if someone else who also pays for the same game as you wants to enjoy the game, they are just a dead weight holding you back from some imaginary mecca of uberleet status. And no I am not putting words in your mouth, you did that all yourself.

 

The problem here is my way of enjoying the game doesn't inflict itself on others way of playing the game. Yours does. And as i said before, I don't see a need for threat meters, some do. who cares. Its tools that allow some twonk that obsesses over numbers to inflict that obsession on others that i object to.

It's not rocket science (CwutIdidThar?), people. Let the tank attack first. I tanked as a level 14 or 15 level Vanguard, and it's really, really not that difficult (I was spec'd shields). Just spam your basic attacks at them, and if you see the main baws isn't following you, then use taunt, But that's it! Also, use your guard on the weaker DPS, not the healer, and, if at lower levels when you still naturally are rewarded gear with more aim than endurance, then toggle your guard on and off to spread the damage out, say if the healer can't heal that fast.

 

To be honest, if a certain game-making/breaking system wasn't added to a game, other systems were made/modified to fit the balance. (e.i. a game doesn't have a shuffle target key, but enemies are weak. Adding a mod to shuffle target makes the game too easy).

 

Vanilla! Vanilla! VANILLAAA!!!!

 

that is all.