I would like to get others' thoughts on this as well.

I am suggesting balancing out Story Mode Dread Palace. Buffing two boss fights and nerfing one.

Tyrans (fight 2) and Raptus (fight 4) I feel could be increased in difficulty by 10% - 15%. It really seems bizarre that the second and fourth bosses are significantly easier than the first boss, almost to the point of being very little or no challenge in comparison.

The Dread Council, on the other hand, is absolute chaos. Much too confusing and difficult for a story mode boss fight. The fight is so inappropriately complex for a story mode fight that very few people actually wish to seriously attempt it, either dropping out directly after defeating Raptus to complete the weekly, or if they do continue, becoming so frustrated after a few wipes they throw up their hands. I would say a decrease in difficulty of 20% - 25% should be sufficient for story mode. Maybe make an intermediate mode that drops 72 or 75 gear, and have the current "story mode" Dread Council fight as is a part of said intermediate mode. It really does not make much sense for story mode to only drop 69's and hard mode drop 78's. Not only is it a huge gap in gear difference between the two, but people that attempt story mode are already in AT LEAST 69's if not 72's by the time they are running it, so the 69 loot is essentially vendor trash.

Also, would it be too much to ask for a 78's mainhand weapon to be added to the ultimate comms vendor? A mainhand weapon is the ONLY slot you cannot purchase new Oriconian gear with commendations.

Thank you.

I'll tell you the secret to the dread masters fight: organization.

Edit: And no, mainhands should only come from operations. You actually need to DESERVE it to get it.

Edit: And no, mainhands should only come from operations. You actually need to DESERVE it to get it.

Actually, you need to get lucky to get it. Which is bad.

Perhaps the fact I prefer a more laid-back gameplay style is my undoing. My favorite two classes are Jedi shadow and Sith assassin, and those are my best geared characters as a result. I enjoy being able to complete quests faster by being able to stealth past MOBs rather than fighting every single one, and when I run ops, I usually pug them, some will be mostly from one guild (there are four guilds I frequently run with), but sometimes they will be true pugs that truly are random. Honestly, I prefer not to commit to a certain time every week and obligate myself to that specific day and time every week, and even if I did, the top raiding guilds avoid having DPS shadows and assassins in their core group anyway in lieu of sentinels or ranged DPS classes. I have still not completed that final quest in the Oricon quest chain that requires you to kill the last boss of Dread Palace. Every week, we've only gotten to Raptus. Personally, I would like to continue as long as it takes since I would like to complete the quest, but the other people do not possess the fortitude that I do. They either opt out and not attempting at all by saying "it's too difficult" and "it's not worth 4 ultimate comms", or if we do attempt it,, most people are willing to throw in the towel after the second or third wipe, and some after only one!

And no, I do not think that the mainhand should only be obtainable from being lucky enough to win the dice roll when it's looted. Tier bonus pieces yes, but not mainhands.

I think that once you know the mechanics and have competent people then you can easily kill last boss in DP SM.

I believe this is all down to people knowing what to do. Sure the better players you have, better your chances of killing it but if you say you run with some other guilds, i am surprised they do not want to finish that story line.

But i prefer playing with same people from my guild and we wipe till we kill it No one quits just because boss is difficult or its not going our way.

I think this is one of those things that you have to accept. If you don't want to commit to set times/schedules you can't expect to easily kill last bosses. Especially as this is "the last fight of Dread Masters saga".

As to loot - i think SM last bosses of both DF and DP could give out 72s just to give people bit more reasons to kill that last boss.

Perhaps I'm just bad luck then, lmao. I will continue attempting it, I am confident once I am in an excellent group that understands all mechanics and the strategy for defeating the bosses that I will eventually finish the quest. It's only a matter of time.

As for loot, I would think all 10 boss fights in SM should drop Verpine (72's) and the Dread Council (final boss fight) in Dread Palace in SM should drop 1 kell dragon mainhand (75') in 8 man, 2 or 3 in 16 man. The last two bosses in each one do drop one piece of Underworld tier bonus gear each in 8 man, and 2 or 3 in 16 man, as well as a few verpine pieces, but most bosses only drop 69's and still the last two bosses of each drop some 69's. As I stated, virtually all players running DF and DP are already in at least 69's and many 72's, and if they've been active the past three weeks at least one piece of 78, I actually have six pieces of 78's on my shadow, although I will admit I also run ops on my assassin and guardian and mail gear components back and forth through bind on legacy gear. And before the patch that released Oricon, I had two full sets of 72 willpower gear, one permanently on my shadow, and one I mailed back and forth between my assassin, guardian's Kira, and sentinel's Kira.

For Christ's sake, 69's drop in HM flashpoints, SM TC, SM TFB, and SM S&V! And HM TC, which is much easier than SM Dread Council and roughly equal in difficulty to SM Bestia (DP boss 1), SM Calphayrus (DP boss 3), and SM Brontes (DF boss 5), drops 72's. And SM TC is a joke, as long as people are not complete morons and get the hell out of the trench during the five seconds or so after the siren starts, it's a guaranteed success with a group in at least 63 (hazmat / dread guard level 50) or 66 (purple crafted level 53) gear. And I can speak with authority on that. My shadow, assassin, and guardian all sport "the Furious" title, and I defeated SM TC in a group on my sentinel when he was only level 53 or 54 and in 61's (black hole / campaign).

Perhaps I'm just bad luck then, lmao. I will continue attempting it, I am confident once I am in an excellent group that understands all mechanics and the strategy for defeating the bosses that I will eventually finish the quest. It's only a matter of time.

Eventually the SM ops will get nerfed into faceroll mode just like EC and TFB were to the point pug groups with dps tanks can stroll through. Until then, the content still is not very hard. Put together a halfway competent pug yourself (check achievements beforehand), or find a casual guild with some decent players and voice chat who raid ad hoc since you don't want a set schedule.

As for loot, I would think all 10 boss fights in SM should drop Verpine (72's) and the Dread Council (final boss fight) in Dread Palace in SM should drop 1 kell dragon mainhand (75') in 8 man, 2 or 3 in 16 man. The last two bosses in each one do drop one piece of Underworld tier bonus gear.

No. The devs have stated Kell Dragon is vanity gear for completing NiM modes. Completing SM ops is in no way deserving of a 75 MH. If you are still in need of Underworld gear, you should be doing HM TFB and S&V, which are on farm even for many casual guilds. Story mode ops is just that - a way for people to take in the canon.

I'll tell you the secret to the dread masters fight: organization.

 

Edit: And no, mainhands should only come from operations. You actually need to DESERVE it to get it.

While I agree in principle you will have to run the Operation 8x to get all your mains the main hand (~ 2 months, assuming your not alt-running) The drops in these operations have been discussed to death but the fact there are 10 bosses and 12 slots with only one boss who drops implants is a problem (and no I don't want the endurance heavy one you can buy with ult comms)

On topic, the dread council is a little overtuned for SM as the likelyhood a PUG group (who are usually not on voice chat) getting through this is slim. Also for the first couple of weeks the 8 man SM bosses had mechanics harder than the 8 man HM bosses (as usual the 16m versions are a joke as half the raid can ignore the mechanics completely)

I have no need for underworld gear, I'm in 72's already, and the tier bonus for shadows and assassins is almost as useless as **** on a bull, certainly not worth the hassle in obtaining.

And I could do without a 78 mainhand, if the armoring in the focii that shadows and assassins use as offhand weapons could be replaced with a hilt instead. Then I could buy a willpower based Oriconian focus on my sentinel, remove it, insert it into a Gree single-bladed lightsaber, mail it, then remove it from the single-bladed lightsaber and insert in a double-bladed.

I have no need for underworld gear, I'm in 72's already, and the tier bonus for shadows and assassins is almost as useless as **** on a bull, certainly not worth the hassle in obtaining.

So you're doing an op that drops gear you don't need and complaining about the drops? People don't walk into Eternity Vault at 55 and complain it drops 63s. Learn the fights in SM and then go to HM. Or go directly to HM, most of them aren't that difficult. If you're in full 72s, you have the gear.

While I agree in principle you will have to run the Operation 8x to get all your mains the main hand (~ 2 months, assuming your not alt-running) The drops in these operations have been discussed to death but the fact there are 10 bosses and 12 slots with only one boss who drops implants is a problem (and no I don't want the endurance heavy one you can buy with ult comms)

 

On topic, the dread council is a little overtuned for SM as the likelyhood a PUG group (who are usually not on voice chat) getting through this is slim. Also for the first couple of weeks the 8 man SM bosses had mechanics harder than the 8 man HM bosses (as usual the 16m versions are a joke as half the raid can ignore the mechanics completely)

Are you saying that DP and DF hard mode is easier in 16m than 8man? how so?

1. SM Operations are assuming you have FP gear. If you have more than that you should be doing the HM's. Not SM.

2. SM operations are already laughably easy if you outgear them. My guild did the 8m SM the week before for the legacy unlock and see the differences (you basically can walk through the content in 72+). This week we 8m'd the 16m SM version with equal ease. These OP's do not need to be nerfed at all.

3. You absolutely should not get a 75/78 ANYTHING from the SM ops.

4. The 8m vs 16m comment refers to the fact that all the mechanics are designed around 8 players. There's no need for more than 8 players for any mechanic.

Tldr; SM is already too easy, no you shouldn't get better gear than it drops. If you have 72's go to HM instead.

1. SM Operations are assuming you have FP gear. If you have more than that you should be doing the HM's. Not SM.

 

2. SM operations are already laughably easy if you outgear them. My guild did the 8m SM the week before for the legacy unlock and see the differences (you basically can walk through the content in 72+). This week we 8m'd the 16m SM version with equal ease. These OP's do not need to be nerfed at all.

 

3. You absolutely should not get a 75/78 ANYTHING from the SM ops.

 

4. The 8m vs 16m comment refers to the fact that all the mechanics are designed around 8 players. There's no need for more than 8 players for any mechanic.

 

Tldr; SM is already too easy, no you shouldn't get better gear than it drops. If you have 72's go to HM instead.

1. up until last 2 bosses - these ops DROP flashpoint equivalent gear, and while fights are not significantly harder than story mode S&V or TfB, they are somewhat more challenging, especially certainly bosses (Draxxus, even postfix, can still be a challenge because of the coordination it requires), to require to run it in 69 gear, which makes drops from everything but last boss... just a bit pointless.

2. I have a feeling your claims are exaggerated, but on a slim chance they aren't - you cannot possibly compare guild runs to pugs, not to mention - not all guilds are so super amazing as you claim yours is. experience you describe is NOT a typical experience, especially not while you are still learning the fights.

3. that's merely your opinion. although I do think 75/78 shouldn't drop in story, but as hardmode of new ops drops 78 gear, and you are supposed to start them in 69 gear, its NOT unreasonable to expect 72 gear to drop from ALL bosses, not just 2 last ones.

4. except on 16 man - things hit harder and have more health, and often you get double the adds to deal with, so yes, you DO need 16 man, unless you are super duper incredibly awesome and if you are, kudos, but majority of people? aren't. and the game shouldn't cater to small minority when it comes at the cost of not being able to clear content for majority.

now. my guild is currently progressing through hardmode and I certainly wouldn't want that nerfed, however, story mode with its weekly com quest should be IMO more accessible to more people.

And I could do without a 78 mainhand, if the armoring in the focii that shadows and assassins use as offhand weapons could be replaced with a hilt instead. Then I could buy a willpower based Oriconian focus on my sentinel, remove it, insert it into a Gree single-bladed lightsaber, mail it, then remove it from the single-bladed lightsaber and insert in a double-bladed.

Offhands are bound to offhand and mainhands bound to mainhands so no that wouldnt work. The point of the story mode ops is that they are accesible to everyone at a lower gear level. if you want better gear stop running the op meant for casual raiders and expecting it to give rewards for hardcore/casual progression raiders.

1. up until last 2 bosses - these ops DROP flashpoint equivalent gear, and while fights are not significantly harder than story mode S&V or TfB, they are somewhat more challenging, especially certainly bosses (Draxxus, even postfix, can still be a challenge because of the coordination it requires), to require to run it in 69 gear, which makes drops from everything but last boss... just a bit pointless.

Because they don't actually require 69's. And Set Bonus Gear > Non-Set Bonus Gear am I right? SM Draxxus requires how much coordination again? You four left, you four right. Profit. The last two bosses drop 72 gear, but who is counting.

2. I have a feeling your claims are exaggerated, but on a slim chance they aren't - you cannot possibly compare guild runs to pugs, not to mention - not all guilds are so super amazing as you claim yours is. experience you describe is NOT a typical experience, especially not while you are still learning the fights.

Zero exaggeration. And though I do not expect PUG runs to do the same (ie: Run 16m with 8m) I will assume that with 8 extra people split between any combination of DPS/Heals/Tank that you are atleast 50% competent. SM takes your hand and highlights the mechanics with fancy little circles and highlights even. And it should. I was actually wondering how they expected Calphayus to be accomplished w/o voice chat. Which is one of my questions I had previous to running the SM versions of the fights.

3. that's merely your opinion. although I do think 75/78 shouldn't drop in story, but as hardmode of new ops drops 78 gear, and you are supposed to start them in 69 gear, its NOT unreasonable to expect 72 gear to drop from ALL bosses, not just 2 last ones.

Then I'd expect the ops to be on a difficulty on par to those that already drop 72 gear. But that's just me. The fact you can buy 72 gear by elite comms now means that gear is easily accessible to those who only do FP's Have the bosses drop random 72's w/o set bonus. My original statement still stands. 75/78 gear should not drop from a SM op anywhere in current progression. Ever. The fact that 16M SM drops ultimate comms is pushing the BS meter to amazing levels.

4. except on 16 man - things hit harder and have more health, and often you get double the adds to deal with, so yes, you DO need 16 man, unless you are super duper incredibly awesome and if you are, kudos, but majority of people? aren't. and the game shouldn't cater to small minority when it comes at the cost of not being able to clear content for majority.

Except the majority of the fights you DO NOT. 16m SM does hit a little harder than 8m SM, but not anywhere close to even 8m HM. The fights use by and large the EXACT same mechanics, and the same number of adds. You only need 8m to accomplish any of the 16m mechanics. Your other members make that increase in health/damage a moot point.

And for the record you don't have to be "Super duper good" to accomplish doing 16M SM with 8M. It won't even challenge a group that has 8m HM down. It's that easy.

now. my guild is currently progressing through hardmode and I certainly wouldn't want that nerfed, however, story mode with its weekly com quest should be IMO more accessible to more people.

It is. There is ZERO nerf needed for SM currently. If it was any easier I'd expect that they'd have to add a mechanic that involved you doing an automatic 2500+ DPS/HPS by just running into a wall.

So you're doing an op that drops gear you don't need and complaining about the drops? People don't walk into Eternity Vault at 55 and complain it drops 63s. Learn the fights in SM and then go to HM. Or go directly to HM, most of them aren't that difficult. If you're in full 72s, you have the gear.

Actually, I was not complaining about the drops. I’m running these mostly for ultimate commendations. If I was complaining about anything, I was complaining about the lack of fortitude of the other 7 to 15 players who give up after 1 to 3 wipes. I would like to finish the damned quest, not for the drops, but just to complete it in my quest log. And I am not stating that the boss in SM is too challenging because I feel it would be too challenging for myself, I am saying that because it seems to be for other people who are so willing to throw in the towel. I enjoy a good challenge. Not that this is that colossal an achievement, but I have soloed the Alderaan and Makeb GSI heroic 2’s, as well as the Black Hole heroic 4 (which is only level 50, but it’s a heroic 4), and at least the black hole I could have asked for help but I did not because I wanted to challenge myself to see if I could solo the final boss since he has a quarter million HP and a ranged AOE, and I accomplished this on a DPS shadow with Nadia (not a healing companion). And yes, I do plan to move onto HM eventually, but I would like to get used to the SM mechanics before I attempt HM.

to require to run it in 69 gear, which makes drops from everything but last boss... just a bit pointless. although I do think 75/78 shouldn't drop in story, but as hardmode of new ops drops 78 gear, and you are supposed to start them in 69 gear, its NOT unreasonable to expect 72 gear to drop from ALL bosses, not just 2 last ones.

Indeed. 72’s are not unreasonable for these ops in SM, since virtually everyone raiding it will already be in AT LEAST 69’s.

my guild is currently progressing through hardmode and I certainly wouldn't want that nerfed, however, story mode with its weekly com quest should be IMO more accessible to more people.

Exactly. HM does not need to be nerfed. And 9 out of the 10 bosses in SM are either fine just the way they are or are slightly too easy. It’s only that one boss fight that is excessively difficult for SM. And I am only saying that because other people (not me) are so quick to throw in the towel after 1, 2, or 3 wipes. I would be willing to pursue the final boss as-is if others were willing to, but most are not. I cannot solo the final boss. And what I am annoyed with is the fact other players do not see the incentive to continue past the weekly since they feel the final boss is too difficult for them and not worth their time, and as a result, I’ve still not been able to complete the quest.

Offhands are bound to offhand and mainhands bound to mainhands so no that wouldnt work. The point of the story mode ops is that they are accesible to everyone at a lower gear level. if you want better gear stop running the op meant for casual raiders and expecting it to give rewards for hardcore/casual progression raiders.

Actually, while I’ve not personally tested it, I can see how Jedi knights and Sith warriors can get a mainhand hilt. They buy an offhand on a sentinel or marauder. They need to, while they have a mainhand equipped, transfer the hilt into a Gree bind on legacy single bladed saber, then mail said saber to another character. The weapon will then be either main OR off hand. As I stated, I’ve not personally tested this with 78’s, but I did accidentally discover this with 72’s.

Actually, while I’ve not personally tested it, I can see how Jedi knights and Sith warriors can get a mainhand hilt. They buy an offhand on a sentinel or marauder. They need to, while they have a mainhand equipped, transfer the hilt into a Gree bind on legacy single bladed saber, then mail said saber to another character. The weapon will then be either main OR off hand. As I stated, I’ve not personally tested this with 78’s, but I did accidentally discover this with 72’s.

It doesn't work. Weapon becomes off-hand only.

Buff Story Mode Tyrans and Raptus, but leave Story Mode Bestia, Calphayus and Dread Council as is.

P.S: HM Raptus hits like a one man army, do not buff HARD MODE Raptus.

Actually, I was not complaining about the drops

This lead me to believe otherwise.

It really does not make much sense for story mode to only drop 69's and hard mode drop 78's. Not only is it a huge gap in gear difference between the two, but people that attempt story mode are already in AT LEAST 69's if not 72's by the time they are running it, so the 69 loot is essentially vendor trash.

Nevertheless, sounds like your follow-up is indicating you're most frustrated with being unable to complete the op in general on SM. I realize people may not be able to commit to a raiding guild due to scheduling conflicts, etc., and while there are lots of fail pugs out there, there are also pugs clearing the content.

I would suggest waiting for that guild run LF1M dps so you know the players are at least going to hold together through a few wipes. Otherwise, put together your own pug. Be explicit about a full clear and tell people you'll be checking achievements. Try to get at least 1 tank, 1 healer, and 2 dps who have fully cleared and know what they're doing.

Ironically I have cleared both 8m HM DF/DP, but don't have the DP SM achievement because our guild only farms HM and pugs have been bad so far. I'd like to see Bioware make the achievements cascade down in difficulties. Do I really have to prove I can beat 8m SM S&V if I'm clearing NiM? This seems to work for some older ops (e.g., EV) but not for the newer ones.

Perhaps the fact I prefer a more laid-back gameplay style is my undoing. My favorite two classes are Jedi shadow and Sith assassin, and those are my best geared characters as a result. I enjoy being able to complete quests faster by being able to stealth past MOBs rather than fighting every single one, and when I run ops, I usually pug them, some will be mostly from one guild (there are four guilds I frequently run with), but sometimes they will be true pugs that truly are random. Honestly, I prefer not to commit to a certain time every week and obligate myself to that specific day and time every week, and even if I did, the top raiding guilds avoid having DPS shadows and assassins in their core group anyway in lieu of sentinels or ranged DPS classes. I have still not completed that final quest in the Oricon quest chain that requires you to kill the last boss of Dread Palace. Every week, we've only gotten to Raptus. Personally, I would like to continue as long as it takes since I would like to complete the quest, but the other people do not possess the fortitude that I do. They either opt out and not attempting at all by saying "it's too difficult" and "it's not worth 4 ultimate comms", or if we do attempt it,, most people are willing to throw in the towel after the second or third wipe, and some after only one!

 

And no, I do not think that the mainhand should only be obtainable from being lucky enough to win the dice roll when it's looted. Tier bonus pieces yes, but not mainhands.

The problem is not the difficultly of the fights on any mode. The real problem is what I've highlighted in red above. Successful groups that kill bosses are the ones who play together on a regular basis and by what you said, you don't want to make the effort. While there is discrimination against dps shadows and assassins, the class changes for 2.5 will help remove the incentive to stack sentinels and marauders. You don't need to be in a top end raiding guild to clear operations. There are plenty of semi-casual to semi-hardcore guilds in the middle. You just won't clear them as quickly. Your attitude of no commitment, skip as much stuff as possible as quickly as possible that you give off in your posts is the only thing standing in your way.

Edit: My guild's raid groups have alternates assigned to each group. They simply fill in if someone is gone and if they are online. We don't obligate them to be on for every raid because they are alternates. Of course if an alt ever wants to become a part of the main group then they have to prove their loyalty and reliability. Perhaps to meet the playstyle you seem to want, you need to find a guild on your server that will accept you being a causal alternate for one of their groups.