Honestly, what Bioware should do, not just for Gunslingers / Snipers but all Advanced Classes is bring them back to the point where the PvP and PvE set bonuses were different. Because in PvE, those set bonuses we have are wonderful, don't really need much of a change, however, the Quickdraw energy reduction would be a nice QoL improvement. Even then, the 6 piece could stay the same, even as unimaginative as it is.

 

So if Bioware was to separate the Set Bonuses, the PvE ones could stay the same (preferably with the QoL Dirty Fighting change), and change the 2 and 4 piece:

 

2 Piece - Decreases the cooldowns of Defensive Screen by 5 and Dodge by 10.

4 Piece - Using Dodge refreshes the Cooldown of either Defensive Screen or Hightail it.

While these could be nice, they could NOT be part of set bonuses because lol Operatives with almost nonexistent evasion cooldown. Instead they should be either be part of a baseline skill exclusive to Snipers or as a Utility. Also, while yes, the set bonuses are "unimaginiative", and each spec shares similar skills, who cares? If you really want to play with a class it should be in the class itself, not the set bonuses, especially since not everyone has them(and they are shared with PvE where those set bonuses would not be necessary). Set bonuses should not be make or break for specs, just nice bonuses that further your damage/heals or reduce your damage taken by a somewhat small but noticeable margin.

While these could be nice, they could NOT be part of set bonuses because lol Operatives with almost nonexistent evasion cooldown. Instead they should be either be part of a baseline skill exclusive to Snipers or as a Utility. Also, while yes, the set bonuses are "unimaginiative", and each spec shares similar skills, who cares? If you really want to play with a class it should be in the class itself, not the set bonuses, especially since not everyone has them(and they are shared with PvE where those set bonuses would not be necessary). Set bonuses should not be make or break for specs, just nice bonuses that further your damage/heals or reduce your damage taken by a somewhat small but noticeable margin.

Oh true, I didn't consider the Scoundrel/Op using this set Bonus as well. Could then have dodge reset the CD of Hightail It then, although, I'm not sure what we could do with the 2 Piece.

(going full imp here since I dont feel like double typing abilities).

I'll start with saying that the setbonus does not need changing for PvE.

2pc is just like all others.

4pc allows every dicipline to burn a bit more energy. More so in Engineering and Virulence, but also Marksmanship.

6pc is the extra crit a minute which they want to give to every class. Maybe not as effective in every Dicipline of a Sniper, but good enough.

I do suggest splitting PvP and PvE again. I can imagine that PvP benefits more in other areas and the 2pc and 4pc are more sustained damage increases. 4pc can be used for a slightly longer burst, but I don't know how that translates to PvP since I don't PvP.

But I can understand if the current setbonuses are not as usefull in PvP as in PvE.

I see alot of the same suggestions and I think most of them are because they want Virulence be more like the old Lethality for Snipers. I am aiming for the cost reduction on Takedown.

First of all, if Bioware does give Virulence a cost reduction on Takedown, then something needs to be nerfed as well. Virulence is strong enough as it is. A cost reduction on Takedown without some nerf will make the dicipline OP.

And honestly (no offence Bioware) I prefer if this dicipline does not get touched, at all. It is performing fine and I am afraid that any rebalance attempt by adding in the cost reduction for Takedown will lead to either a nerf, or being OP which will be followed by probably a big nerf.

I personally am fine with how Virulence plays now. You got Lethal shot which hits more in 2/3 of the situations and is potentially cheaper. It adds some challenge to predict your energy not just for the current rotation block, but also the next. Overall I do not miss the old Takedown cost reduction at all.

In fact Virulence does not need a cost reduction in Takedown. We are performing quite well without it so I see no reason why we should get it. Other than making the rotation easier which I think is not necessary.

And the 6 piece set bonus is so OP where Marksman is concerned. That's not to say Marksman is OP or Snipers are OP but you shouldn't be able to guarantee hitting someone for 20k twice every minute. I think the autocrit on set bonuses in general is sort of lazy and unimaginative.

It's 12-13k max on PvP geared char. And all 6pc bonuses have "This effect can't occur more than once every minute" part. And you can run away or hide from long-casted Ambush. Please, don't QQ about snipers in set bonuses discussion.

the 6 pieces bonus is good, one of the few things good for snipers in PvP environement.

BUT the problem is that this extra autocrit bonus using laze target/smuggler's luck has not the same power for the 3 specs..

1- stronger for MM

2- important for engineering (damn boost this spec for god sake !) but less strong than with MM

3- just decent with virulence. crit the base weapon damage of cull..hum ok better than nothing.

--> maybe give the crit bonus to lethal shot/dirty blast (the weapon AND the internal damage) for virulence/dirty fighting., this will be better for the cycle in my opinion.

--------------

but in general i would prefer you change this 2-4-6 set bonus. i don't find it very nice and interesting enough. i'm sure you can propose better, more choices, more bonus set, to give more diversity and strategy.

PS : i know it's not the point of this topic but please fix sabotage/engineering !! ( i speak for PvP) all fan of snipers/gunslingers are agree with this statement. we share the same fate as marauders with anihilation/watchman...you broke the specs, admit it and fix it.

[quote=Thaladan;8316187

--> maybe give the crit bonus to lethal shot/dirty blast (the weapon AND the internal damage) for virulence/dirty fighting., this will be better for the cycle in my opinion.

That would cause a significant DPS loss. Like I stated before, the damage dealt from cull is boosted to about 12k damage dealt by purely the white damage. Changing it to Dirty Blast would bring that total down to about 8k per Smuggler's Luck charge.

First of all, if Bioware does give Virulence a cost reduction on Takedown, then something needs to be nerfed as well. Virulence is strong enough as it is. A cost reduction on Takedown without some nerf will make the dicipline OP.

And honestly (no offence Bioware) I prefer if this dicipline does not get touched, at all. It is performing fine and I am afraid that any rebalance attempt by adding in the cost reduction for Takedown will lead to either a nerf, or being OP which will be followed by probably a big nerf.

The problem I see with this change is actually more of a PvP thing than a PvE. It should be relatively easy to balance out the energy reduction with reduced damage over a continuous fight. However, in PvP, an energy reduction would be a significant nerf in PvP because of two reasons:

1. Since this would most likely be tied to a damage nerf, this spec's burst would be brought down tremendously, and with proper use of free fillers, you shouldn't burn out of energy in PvP in a 1v1.

2. Since DoT Spread is much easier in PvP. especially in stalemated matches, the energy reduction will be totally useless since the player will be swimming in energy with all the DoT crits.

However, I do not know what Bioware has in mind for 4.0 regarding class changes. If they change the spec so that this is needed, then they should put it in. But if the classes will stay relatively the same, then the change will be unnecessary.

The problem I see with this change is actually more of a PvP thing than a PvE. It should be relatively easy to balance out the energy reduction with reduced damage over a continuous fight. However, in PvP, an energy reduction would be a significant nerf in PvP because of two reasons:

 

1. Since this would most likely be tied to a damage nerf, this spec's burst would be brought down tremendously, and with proper use of free fillers, you shouldn't burn out of energy in PvP in a 1v1.

 

2. Since DoT Spread is much easier in PvP. especially in stalemated matches, the energy reduction will be totally useless since the player will be swimming in energy with all the DoT crits.

 

However, I do not know what Bioware has in mind for 4.0 regarding class changes. If they change the spec so that this is needed, then they should put it in. But if the classes will stay relatively the same, then the change will be unnecessary.

A thing Tacmossie once came up with (I think it was him) was a proc for Takedown to be free every 18 seconds. I would drop it to 15 seconds so it can reliably proc on every Cull but same thing.

For my parses that ends up in an energy loss (some quite sever, some less) and in the end the rotation will be dull and very static.

But in change all crit can be put into power. Chances are that it results in about the same damage. Though it can be a sever dps loss as well.

But it would result in a boring easy rotation.

And like you said a cost reduction will probably lead to a damage reduction as well.

Any change to improve energy for Virulence should result in a damage reduction really since Virulence is (PvE) in a good place right now. Which is why I am against any cost reduction change. Takedown/Quickdraw really should stay 15 energy in my opinion.

4.0 might change stuff but we are not in 4.0 yet. In the current situation I think it is the most beneficial if the energy cost for Takedown and Quickdraw stay the same and the energy keeps coming from DoT crits.

Basically do not try to fix something that's not broken, that is what I am trying to say

On the other hand, I do not know the PvP side of things. If PvP requires some change then ofcourse Bioware should look at the current dicipline and make necessary changes. But for PvE no changes are necessary.

I would like to see the energy reduction to takedown that was on the old 4 pc set bonus added to the current 6 pc set bonus. I don't know if it would be wise to replace any of the current 3 bonuses but rather add it to the 6pc. This would allow for more liberal use of takedown as it procs and not leave you in trouble energy wise quite so easily.

So how would this benefit engineering or marksman?

So how would this benefit engineering or marksman?

Better energy managment in execute phase.

Better energy managment in execute phase.

So you're only thinking about pve...

Virulence would benefit from that much more so than the other two and it would ne useless for me in pvp. If there are energy management issues with virulence then the spec itself needs to be. changed not the bonus set things.

If they provide went down the route of spec specific bonuses then sure but otherwise that's not something I'd like to see

*Waits for people to read the longish posts favoring against the energy reduction.

Or at least, stop posting the same exact thing.*

*Waits for people to read the longish posts favoring against the energy reduction.*

*waits for 4.0 pts so we can just discuss class and spec QoL and overall balancing in general instead of just lmited to set bonuses*

It would be nice if people would also state what aspect of the game they have in mind when proposing changes.

It strikes me that most here propose their changes w/o thinking of the other aspect like proposing a change that would benefit PvE but not PvP and vice versa.

I'm talking from a PvP perspective here.

I for one would propose a change of the 2 piece set bonus that Penetrating Blasts, Explosive Probe and Cull (or Weakening Blast) would increase the damage dealt by 5% instead of 2%.

Furthermore this Lethal Shot is such a lack luster... I hardly ever do it in PvP, I might use it 2 times in a month and the thing is that I'm doing fine (giving the survivability circumstance there is) w/o using this crap.

At the moment I'm not using that ability as a filler or something, I rather spent my GCD on other things and no, it's not in my rotation of Lethality because Lethality doesn't have a friggin rotation but a priority list.

That ability should be either completely removed from the game or it's dmg significantly increased and it should be an instant cast with a possible proc chance from Lethalities dots like every 15sec when a dot crits. This would make if far more attractive to use and for once a useful ability.

4 piece set bonus is not ok. The reduced CD of Target Aquired is not much regarding the high CD the ability has. This might would work better if the CD of Target Aquired would be reduced to 1min then with the 4 piece set bonus it would have a CD of 45sec which would be way more useful to have. Keep the 15 energy.

I don't know how much this would change things for PvE Snipers tho but I guess it would be nice.

6 piece set bonus is alright.

And BW, how about your promised survivability buff for Snipers in PvP? Will we get something with 4.0 or will we be still stuck with Merc at the bottom of the food chain?

If you say Snipers are fine and doing well in PvP then PLEASE go ahead, get a Dev of yours to play Sniper in PvP and stream that and show to us HOW WELL Snipers are doing in PvP, I dare you.

 

I'm talking from a PvP perspective here.

 

(...)

 

And BW, how about your promised survivability buff for Snipers in PvP? Will we get something with 4.0 or will we be still stuck with Merc at the bottom of the food chain?

If you say Snipers are fine and doing well in PvP then PLEASE go ahead, get a Dev of yours to play Sniper in PvP and stream that and show to us HOW WELL Snipers are doing in PvP, I dare you.

i agree.

just remember, devs, that we are one of the only 2 purest dps class in this game (with marauders) "3 dps only specs" and in PvP this is a weakness...?!?

why ? because the other 2 dps spec classes benefit from defensive cooldown/heal capacity given especially for the tank spec (for assa, specialistsand juggs) and heal spec (for sorcerer, agents and mercs)

and it's that which makes the difference for PvP.

so like VdFExarKun said, i dare you too : play solo q, play warzones, you will see how we are auto focused by stealth classes and distant and how we die so easily.

i play all classes in pvp (although my prefrence and skill is clearly for sniper) and it's so obvious to say that sniper/gunslingers are weak.

you need to respect the pure dps class we are, and like all you did for marauders community, and even if we are by far less represented, you have to do the same, lsiten us and our feedback and fix snipers/gunslingers in PvP environement.

Hey everyone,

 

We wanted to take a moment to reach out to the community to collect ideas on set bonuses. We are looking for opinions on current and previous set bonuses as well as concepts for future. This thread will cover Snipers/Gunslinger.

 

Note: Our intent is to have set bonuses not increase DPS by more than 5%. Please keep this in mind when posting your suggestions.

 

Current Level 60 Set Bonuses (for reference)

• 2-Piece: Activating Explosive Probe, Ambush and Lethal Shot or Sabotage Charge, Aimed Shot and Dirty Blast increases damage dealt by 2% for 15 seconds. Cannot occur more than once every 30 of seconds.
  
• 4-Piece: Reduces the cooldown of Target Acquired or Illegal Mods by 15 seconds, and activating either ability restores 15 energy.
  
• 6-Piece: Laze Target or Smuggler's Luck now has 2 charges and its duration is doubled.
  

Cheers, all!

The SWTOR Combat Team

Well if you really want my opinion.

The current set bonus is ok the extra crit for mm is great less spectacular for others. I would hope that any future set bonuses do not alter the rotation. They should be bonuses not massive changes to play style.

That being said I think I would prefer it if dps boosts (direct damage increases) should be included with the skill trees. The set bonuses should reflect their origins they are from group content and should improve group synergy. For example:

reduce cooldown of ballistic shield by x secs

all allies within x meters gain x% accuracy

Food for thought: set bonuses don't necessarily need to be used for extra DPS. Here are some suggestions for the PvP set bonuses....

2pc: Ambush, Aimed Shot, Cull, Wounding Shots, Explosive Probe and Sabotage Charge no longer produce a warning animation or warning sound as they are cast / channelled / applied.

4pc: Completing a full Series of Shots / Speed Shot / Penetrating Blasts / Penetrating Rounds causes the next Ambush / Aimed Shot / Cull / Wounding Shots / Explosive Charge / Sabotage Charge to become an instant cast, instant channel, or instant detonation where relevant.

6pc: Dodge now lasts 6 seconds, and Hightail It / Covered Escape can be used while controlled.

I've just looked through all of the set bonuses on all the classes currently, and all of the set bonuses are similar, including the 4 - Pieces. They either have an energy reduction cost or a CD reduction tied to each of them, then the normal 2 and 6 pieces.

Question to the Devs: What plans do you currently have in mind? If not for this class, then any changes in general (i.e. Will these new set bonuses be similar to all classes or will they be individualized by class)? Because I believe that the classes could very well benefit from a split between PvE set bonuses and PvP set bonuses.

Food for thought: set bonuses don't necessarily need to be used for extra DPS. Here are some suggestions for the PvP set bonuses....

 

2pc: Ambush, Aimed Shot, Cull, Wounding Shots, Explosive Probe and Sabotage Charge no longer produce a warning animation or warning sound as they are cast / channelled / applied.

 

4pc: Completing a full Series of Shots / Speed Shot / Penetrating Blasts / Penetrating Rounds causes the next Ambush / Aimed Shot / Cull / Wounding Shots / Explosive Charge / Sabotage Charge to become an instant cast, instant channel, or instant detonation where relevant.

 

6pc: Dodge now lasts 6 seconds, and Hightail It / Covered Escape can be used while controlled.

What's an insta channel even supposed to be, and Hightail it while controlled sounds pretty broken to me, especially considering you already have an ability to make you immune to stuns for quite a while.

What's an insta channel even supposed to be, and Hightail it while controlled sounds pretty broken to me, especially considering you already have an ability to make you immune to stuns for quite a while.

Instant channel = 20k lol hit with cull. I just giggled and moved on.

What's an insta channel even supposed to be, and Hightail it while controlled sounds pretty broken to me, especially considering you already have an ability to make you immune to stuns for quite a while.

Insta-channel would involve cull becoming a single hit ability. depending on balance, perhaps the cull damage could be toned down whilst the dot damage could be boosted up to compensate in the overall DPS of the spec. The point of this suggestion is to improve burstiness, rather than DPS as a whole.

Deflection gives immunity to stuns (whilst also allowing movement), and Phase Walk can be used while controlled.

Food for thought: set bonuses don't necessarily need to be used for extra DPS. Here are some suggestions for the PvP set bonuses....

 

2pc: Ambush, Aimed Shot, Cull, Wounding Shots, Explosive Probe and Sabotage Charge no longer produce a warning animation or warning sound as they are cast / channelled / applied.

 

4pc: Completing a full Series of Shots / Speed Shot / Penetrating Blasts / Penetrating Rounds causes the next Ambush / Aimed Shot / Cull / Wounding Shots / Explosive Charge / Sabotage Charge to become an instant cast, instant channel, or instant detonation where relevant.

 

6pc: Dodge now lasts 6 seconds, and Hightail It / Covered Escape can be used while controlled.

No thanks on any of those, 6 secs on dodge is too much lots of people would complain and I wouldn't be surprised if ops tried to make it work for them. As for the others they are virtually useless for engineering. Getting ep to detonate is not a problem for the spec.

No thanks on any of those, 6 secs on dodge is too much lots of people would complain and I wouldn't be surprised if ops tried to make it work for them. As for the others they are virtually useless for engineering. Getting ep to detonate is not a problem for the spec.

Operatives have two charges of roll resist, along with an already-existing 3 second Dodge.

The problem is less so with my suggestions themselves, and more so with the current state of engineering. IMO