What this game really needs at this point...is a Dungeon Finder. It was a huge success in other MMO's, no reason for it not to be in this game.

 

Pros:

 

1. Can continue questing while waiting for group to form.

2. Prevents trolls from sitting there ruining General Chat while they are bored trying to fill a group.

3. Proves that BioWare can do something like this. Buys street creds.

 

Cons:

 

1. Some people think it ruins the community...but I think they are wrong. They obviously have not sat for an hour trying to fill a Flashpoint group.

2. People who think like that are probably in a huge guild and have no trouble filling groups. We're usually filling 2-3 of 4 and just need that last role.

Because the previous thread has exceeded our normal threshold for thread length, we've started this new thread for the community to discuss this topic.

 

Please note that the following developer post was made in a previous version of this thread:

 

Improving our LFG system is high on the list of features that Systems Design wants to add to the game. We want this to be good not just for helping people find Flashpoints and Operations to run, but also other multiplayer content like heroic missions. A key emphasis will be on advertising for specific role needs (healer, tank, DPS). This feature is currently in the design stage, and once this feature has moved beyond this to a development stage and has a firm ETA, I'll be coming back to you guys to give more details.

 

We've known we would need to revisit this feature for a while. In the level-up game, finding players isn't too rough because, with few exceptions, everyone in that level band is either on your planet or on the fleet. Once more and more players hit endgame, and are spending their time in more places, the need for this feature is going to increase. Note that right now, high level players have the opposite problem - there aren't enough other players up there to group with. This problem will dissipate as the game ages, and more players reach the later levels.

 

That being said, our design team doesn't philosophically believe that cross-server Flashpoints are good for the game at this stage in the game's lifespan. There is huge social pressure to not be a jerk that goes away when the odds that you will never see these people again is high. I'm not saying never - there may come a time in the future where we reevaluate this - but at least in the short term, we believe this will cause more damage to the community than good.

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Yeah it needs a FP finder.

 

I don't care what anyone says, it does not kill the community. People are already sitting on the fleet anyway and there is no Finder. What does that tell you?

Edited April 5, 2012 by Darth_Moonshadow

Yeah it needs a FP finder.

 

I don't care what anyone says, it does not kill the community. People are already sitting on the fleet anyway and there is no Finder. What does that tell you?

 

You can not care all you want, but the concerns are valid.

The presence of a cross server dungeon finder is the difference between an online multiplayer co op game and an mmorpg.

 

Thankfully, the developers said the incoming FP finder will be server wide only.

asking people to do something they didn't flag as looking for is not community building. Spamming is not community building. If anything it's getting you a reputation of someone that's an inconsiderate harrasser, or too nosey if they feel obligated to explain why they said no. So what if people see me spamming all the time and people start to get to know my name? That's not making friends, that's putting yourself on the line in ways which could be good or could be very horrible. I know when everyone's doing it it'll most likely mean nothing, but it takes so much fighting of self-conscious tendencies to do it. If I wanted to bring so much attention to myself I'd do it in other ways. But I'm not. All I'm trying to do play the game.

 

It's all very well and good to say that running the flashpoint is community building, because it is. When it comes to a community I'd be part of (which I came to be part of organically and through playing rather than making out like a salesman or a telemarketer), I don't care if they're from the same server or not. I'm interested in the SWTOR community interested in flashpoints. The thought of having friends on my friends list simply because they're a tank makes my stomach churn. I'd love to be able to play with people I meet on my server. But the way it is, unless you can completely fill the group with all roles on your own the run won't happen. The days of "Do you know someone that can tank or heal this" should be well over for entry-level group PVE end-game. It's entry level, and entry level only. Blocking it off to people simply trying to enter who have not yet experienced it is a silly design. There's nothing worse than needing 1 dps to fill a group and not getting one, no matter how long you wait before the group starts falling apart. And knowing that somewhere on planet Earth, someone playing a dps most probably wants to do the flashpoint, but is on a different server and therefore cut off.

 

Catch 22 - can't do content coz don't have the social contacts. Can't make the social contacts coz you can't do the content and get the gear/experience. Something needs to break that cycle. And here's a hint - you can't force people to make friends with people they don't want to.

X-Server LFG, I don't like it many for many reasons and, with other proof to back up my claims previously posted, there is no more I need to say about that flawed tool.

 

So you get X-Server LFG because you have been refusing even the idea of server merges saying "NO!" you want X-Server not merges. (check prior posts to see that debate on these forums that mergers were in fact not wanted by those demanding a X-Server LFG tool). Now that you got it, what about the others? Those that do not want the X-Server LFG flawed tool at all, be it bad experience that they "just couldn't get over it", "grow thicker skin", "can't deal", are going to be stuck in a community that is not what they had or wanted or feel has been desecrated, or any other things X-Server LFG pro advocates have called the rest.

 

So, guilds can do their runs, not a problem, may they have fun. They get no special treatment, drops, gear or tokens beyond the normal allotment already given by BW. Just as it has been.

 

X-Server gets their one button op and no special treatment for performing such mundane two click insta-grouping. This allows you to "do the same content" you so claim to desire. You get the same chance for drops, gear, and tokens as given by BW for the guild/friends/regular old school type runs.

 

And then you MUST make a scalable Op for all those Singular people who do not like X-Srever LFG and may not be in a guild and want "to do the same content", and cover the possibility that they have a friend or two with them, so they can do the same Op er "the same content". Now just because they are not a full guild group, or even so much as clicking a button for that insta-group, they too must get the same drops, gear, and tokens as they would if they were a regular type run, guild run, or insta-group.

 

So, that takes care of the Guilds, the X-Server LFG Musthaveneeds, and the people who do not join guilds, like to solo, or do not want the X-Server LFG experience.

 

So we will just have to get BW to go back to the drawing board to take care of all the mechanics needed to accomplish this merely minor feat. It would only take a little tweaking here and there and viola.

 

I mean by what I've been reading in these posts and threads of what should have been in the game before BW even thought of releasing SWTOR, well, this should be nothing. I'm sure the Devs can squeeze it in ever so easily enough.

 

I mean, if you can demand X-Server LFG so you can "experience the same content", well, it's only fair that you too should be speaking up for that solo player that wants to "experience the same content" without using a LFG tool. Otherwise it would really be unfair to what appears to be such a large group of the player base, as there is so little in the way of community and all.

w|f lol still active

 

Thankfully, the developers said the incoming FP finder will be server wide only.

yep BW never ever do any sort of cross-server anything

 

even pvp, delete all you done and do only single-server rated wz, protect your precious community!

X-Server LFG, I don't like it many for many reasons and, with other proof to back up my claims previously posted, there is no more I need to say about that flawed tool.

yes BW your preciuos community have unbreakable proofs listen to them!

say no to cross-server!

don't allow "random pug guy" to hurt your precious community

Edited April 5, 2012 by navarh

no cross-server dungeon finder will cause more to leave. it's too damn difficult to find groups and you can look to lotro to see how often a single-server dungeon finder pops. less satisfied customers = more people leaving = less community for the anti-cross server crowd = less developer dollars going back to the game = f2p and the game relegated to the bargain bin. enjoy!

less satisfied customers = more people leaving = less community

no BW don't listen this is deception!

precious community you protected so far with no recount, no combatlogs and no cross-server tools can't be unhappy! it is impossible

Edited April 5, 2012 by navarh

X-Server LFG, I don't like it many for many reasons and, with other proof to back up my claims previously posted, there is no more I need to say about that flawed tool.

 

What proof?! You have never provided any proof! All you'v ever done is go on at length about your opinion of it and listed some apparent ocassions when someone was mean to you.

 

You can't provide proof because there is no proof. Only opinions.

 

I also seriously doubt that's the last you will ever say on this beneficial tool.

no cross-server dungeon finder will cause more to leave. it's too damn difficult to find groups and you can look to lotro to see how often a single-server dungeon finder pops. less satisfied customers = more people leaving = less community for the anti-cross server crowd = less developer dollars going back to the game = f2p and the game relegated to the bargain bin. enjoy!

 

So we should let the lower pop servers rot in isolation?

 

So we should let the lower pop servers rot in isolation?

ofc not

their precious community wold be protected and they will be happy!

First of all - there is no reason why people only LFG in general on the Fleet for Flashpoints. People may be interested in a flashpoint but happen to be questing on some world - go ask there. It works, I myself happened to find a group for a flashpoint while running imperial-sied quests on Taris.

 

Secondly, cross-server LFG is not a solution for low-population servers. It would be a band-aid at best. The solution for low-population servers from Bioware would be server merges or server transfers. The solution for low-population servers from Players would be to reroll onto a new server (I myself did this and am very happy I did so).

 

Furthermore...

 

Cross-server LFG does not help me find groups for any non-instanced heroic content which is, to be honest, at least half of what I would want to use it for. There's more to grouping in SWTOR than instanced flashpoints after all.

 

Cross-server LFG does not help me meet and make friends on my server. Sure I can meet some awesome guy from another server, but after the run is done I am very likely never going to see him again.

 

Cross-server LFG does not provide a strong disincentive agaisnt bad behavior. Who cares if someguy from someotherserver doesn't like that I rolled "Need" on that piece of gear that would be great for my companion, or that blue BoE that I could sell for zillions of credits on the GTN? Big deal if he ignores me, there's millions of other people out there for me to group with.

First of all - there is no reason why people only LFG in general on the Fleet for Flashpoints. People may be interested in a flashpoint but happen to be questing on some world - go ask there. It works, I myself happened to find a group for a flashpoint while running imperial-sied quests on Taris.

 

Secondly, cross-server LFG is not a solution for low-population servers. It would be a band-aid at best. The solution for low-population servers from Bioware would be server merges or server transfers. The solution for low-population servers from Players would be to reroll onto a new server (I myself did this and am very happy I did so).

 

Furthermore...

 

Cross-server LFG does not help me find groups for any non-instanced heroic content which is, to be honest, at least half of what I would want to use it for. There's more to grouping in SWTOR than instanced flashpoints after all.

 

Cross-server LFG does not help me meet and make friends on my server. Sure I can meet some awesome guy from another server, but after the run is done I am very likely never going to see him again.

 

Cross-server LFG does not provide a strong disincentive agaisnt bad behavior. Who cares if someguy from someotherserver doesn't like that I rolled "Need" on that piece of gear that would be great for my companion, or that blue BoE that I could sell for zillions of credits on the GTN? Big deal if he ignores me, there's millions of other people out there for me to group with.

 

Your solution to low population servers is to abandon them? That's not a solution.

 

Cross Server LFG isn't for making friends, it's for players to experience the content they are paying money for. If you want to make friends, start a conversation in General Chat.

 

Nothing in this game provides strong disincentives towards bad behaviour. Have you not seen the huge thread with people complaining about players needing on gear for their companions?

 

I'm sorry, but your points are weak.

would be server merges or server transfers.

no

merges and transfers destroys a precious community and give game a bad pr, there no need for that

imagine how that "random pug guy" from "other server" invade your server, that is nightmare!

they are no palyers nor humans, they bunch of unknown "random pug guy" pure evil, that destroys yours precious communities!

Cross-server LFG does not help me find groups for any non-instanced heroic content

yes BW you game already so great that even cross-server tool's can't help it

so you don't need cross-server tools, dont ever use them

 

 

look at this eyes

how can they possibly lie?

/moo

Edited April 5, 2012 by navarh

Navarh, we get that you've cancelled your sub and you no longer care, but can you please stop trolling the forums?

=\

 

okay

btw i used TC (time card) so i can't even cancel /sadpanda

sub will just run out

Edited April 5, 2012 by navarh

=\

 

okay

 

Feel free to join in debates, just be a bit more constructive about it

Your solution to low population servers is to abandon them? That's not a solution.

 

Rolling on a new server is what a player can do if they don't want to wait for Bioware. It is a solution for the individual and I'm sorry if I made it sound like it was a solution for anything else.

 

Merging low-population servers is a solution for the game because it does no good to have servers out there that are below a certain critical mass of population. Free server transfers from server/faction populations that are "overloaded" to another server where that population is "underloaded" is also indeed a solution. All of this is of course in the name of creating the largest number of servers that have reasonably consistent and self-sustaining populations.

 

Cross Server LFG isn't for making friends, it's for players to experience the content they are paying money for. If you want to make friends, start a conversation in General Chat.

 

Grouping with other people is a fantastic way to meet quality people and I would encourage you to try it. Fostering grouping in a way that allows one to befriend others on your server and thus play with them again is instrumental in building a sense of connectedness to a game that helps with retention after the content itself might get a bit stale.

 

Cross-server groups do not afford one the opportunity to befriend, and thus play again with, others from different servers. It removes that means of finding and making new friends from the equation. Rather than paper-over the problem of a low-population server by allowing one to play with others on different servers I would see the root cause addressed in a way that does not eliminate an important avenue for making friends.

 

All of this of course disregards that cross-server groups would be absolutely useless for completing non-instanced heroic content - and thus the low-population servers aren't even being fully served by this "treat the symptom only" approach.

 

Nothing in this game provides strong disincentives towards bad behaviour. Have you not seen the huge thread with people complaining about players needing on gear for their companions?

 

I'm sorry, but your points are weak.

 

I have seen these threads and I have also observed in-game as I've advanced through the levels that increasingly people "understand" that it isn't ok to just need roll for companions. In fact I can't recall the last time I've seen anyone do that beyond Hammer Station without asking and securing the rest of the group's "ok" to do so.

 

We can argue about what drives that behavior - it is likely a number of different inputs affecting it. But I would hope that at a minimum you would agree that concern about being able to find future groups if one were "blacklisted" by people for doing that factors in there somewhere.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Katahn

Grouping with other people is a fantastic way to meet quality people and I would encourage you to try it.

hahaha

okay

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/2341/screenshot2012040512040.jpg

that's me, i done alot of fp and have gear for both tank and dps spec, 4/5 columni in fact for both

never done ops, they are to hard for me, i can't play when both my hands busy with DOUBLE FACEPALM…

 

so tell us more storyes about "encourage you to try it"

ppffftt

The age old debate... Even if it's only a couple of years old (since WoW added x-server)...

 

Anyways, we do need a dungeon finder tool. And badly. We need tools to make it easier to make groups. Spamming chat is not really social, and not really a way to make community. I think most people can agree to that.

 

The x-server deal, that one is a bit trickier. It has its good and bad points. So the best solution for me? Is to have x-server be enabled and disabled per demand.

 

If there are not enough people on your server, and the queue has been going on for 10 minutes for example, then it should enable x-server and group up with people on another server. If there is enough people on your server, then no problem, you get to play your server.

 

There has to be a compromise. While x-server may reduce some of the in-server community feeling, waiting in queue for 1 hour does not do anything for that in-server community feeling either. So x-server should be something that is enabled/disabled per demand. Not simply always-on, or always-off.

I personally feel like a looking for group finder (without cross server queing) would be best. Yes there are pro's and con's to having either or. Yes the reference i'm about to use is from WoW and that is because out of all the mmo's i've played I played that one from it's release until this game came out. that spending hours in a city lfg in vanilla WoW was horrid esp when the end game dungeons in WoW took hours to complete in the first place. When the lfg feature originally came out I loved it. The click of a button to queue me up so I can keep questing, or world pvp until my queue pops up was perfect. The cross server queuing did make for faster queues but I found that more (ninjas) were ruining the party system in my own personal experience at least. You all might have had perfect experiences with the cross server lfg but I haven't. Every time there was someone in group from a dif server and they didn't have anyone else from their server in group they would just roll need on every single item they could, and why not? it's not like there was anyone from their server to complain about they probably would never see us again anyways. I know in my guild at least if there were multiple reports of a person in our guild ninjaing we would actually remove them from guild or at least ban them from raids/events for a few weeks. It's not like I'm going to stop playing just because they add a cross server queue but I think they should try server wide only first and if queues are still hour long wait times then re-evaluate other options like cross server queuing.

asking people to do something they didn't flag as looking for is not community building. Spamming is not community building. If anything it's getting you a reputation of someone that's an inconsiderate harrasser, or too nosey if they feel obligated to explain why they said no. So what if people see me spamming all the time and people start to get to know my name? That's not making friends, that's putting yourself on the line in ways which could be good or could be very horrible. I know when everyone's doing it it'll most likely mean nothing, but it takes so much fighting of self-conscious tendencies to do it. If I wanted to bring so much attention to myself I'd do it in other ways. But I'm not. All I'm trying to do play the game.

 

It's all very well and good to say that running the flashpoint is community building, because it is. When it comes to a community I'd be part of (which I came to be part of organically and through playing rather than making out like a salesman or a telemarketer), I don't care if they're from the same server or not. I'm interested in the SWTOR community interested in flashpoints. The thought of having friends on my friends list simply because they're a tank makes my stomach churn. I'd love to be able to play with people I meet on my server. But the way it is, unless you can completely fill the group with all roles on your own the run won't happen. The days of "Do you know someone that can tank or heal this" should be well over for entry-level group PVE end-game. It's entry level, and entry level only. Blocking it off to people simply trying to enter who have not yet experienced it is a silly design. There's nothing worse than needing 1 dps to fill a group and not getting one, no matter how long you wait before the group starts falling apart. And knowing that somewhere on planet Earth, someone playing a dps most probably wants to do the flashpoint, but is on a different server and therefore cut off.

 

Catch 22 - can't do content coz don't have the social contacts. Can't make the social contacts coz you can't do the content and get the gear/experience. Something needs to break that cycle. And here's a hint - you can't force people to make friends with people they don't want to.

 

^This. My friends list is only comprised of healers, and competent dps, even if they are intolerable human beings. I'd much rather play with jerks who can play the game than carebears who can't figure out that they should be attacking the tank's target.

Even if I were to concede that x-server LFG for flashpoints is wonderful and has no downsides whatsoever... an x-server tool only works for finding group for instanced content that isn't specifically on a particular server. It would do nothing to help me find a group to complete heroic missions on any planet where some or all of the heroic took place outside of instanced areas.

 

Furthermore, for those on low-pop servers it would be, at best, a band-aid for your existing problem: low population. It wouldn't give you people to run heroics with either. What you guys need is a real solution: server transfers and/or server merges.

 

The aspect of community building isn't found in spamming general. The aspect of community building is running group content with people on your server and getting to know them and them getting to know you. Its a way for people to build connections via running groups together more than just once. Cross-server LFG does not allow for that either.

The aspect of community building is running group content with people on your server and getting to know them and them getting to know you.

how many players you can remember, "know them" 10? 50? 200?