You 're mixing up tionese COMMENDATIONS and tionese CRYSTALS .. the latter you get plenty of .. commendations you get ONE for completing a HM flashpoint.

 

Am I? My bad. I just know that after I'm done running a hard mode, I head back to fleet, turn in the daily quest and always habe enougb to buy 1 off saber and most times, 2. I'll have to pay better attention next tkme for an accurate count.

I normally skip most bosses in all FP's. If anyone is there to get gear they need to say so at the beginning, cuz i say we are going to skip most. If you need something from a specific boss, thats ok. But if you dont even know enought the bosses to know what loot drops off what boss, then I am not wasting my time. Kick and be done with it if you pull something we arent killing.

skipping has gotten to be the norm with the group finder and it is here to stay unless content is designed around it.

 

we can say and do all we want but this games design has caused many etiquette issues in its player base. some of these were brought in from other mmos whose mechanics were copied. others are from players from them.

 

the problem is people just dont care about the other three in the group and only about themselves. we do have a ignore and i do like to use it. i will also post on our guild forums' black list such players with their legacy and guild. but for me, as i am some what a old school player, i still want to enjoy my run. i dont need the gear and i dont need the bh coms i just do it for fun. racing isnt fun for me and from what i gather nor for many others. ya i have been doing the hms since FEBRUARY, have five 50s with four bh geared out and still enjoy the zones, cut scenes and runs. guess what if i dont have the time for a run i dont queue up for one.

 

but for now gearing up a new 50 toon is rather difficult for them. this is the issue at hand. how can this game add new subscribers when they get to a end game full of selfish players racing through a zone taking less time than you had in the queue? it wont. i know i have been that player in another mmo and it was a deal breaker. it was also for those few people i was playing with too.

skipping has gotten to be the norm with the group finder and it is here to stay unless content is designed around it.

 

we can say and do all we want but this games design has caused many etiquette issues in its player base. some of these were brought in from other mmos whose mechanics were copied. others are from players from them.

 

the problem is people just dont care about the other three in the group and only about themselves. we do have a ignore and i do like to use it. i will also post on our guild forums' black list such players with their legacy and guild. but for me, as i am some what a old school player, i still want to enjoy my run. i dont need the gear and i dont need the bh coms i just do it for fun. racing isnt fun for me and from what i gather nor for many others. ya i have been doing the hms since FEBRUARY, have five 50s with four bh geared out and still enjoy the zones, cut scenes and runs. guess what if i dont have the time for a run i dont queue up for one.

 

but for now gearing up a new 50 toon is rather difficult for them. this is the issue at hand. how can this game add new subscribers when they get to a end game full of selfish players racing through a zone taking less time than you had in the queue? it wont. i know i have been that player in another mmo and it was a deal breaker. it was also for those few people i was playing with too.

 

 

This!!

I skip as much as possible, doing hm fp's is booring enough. want my comms then enough with it already.

 

If you guys want to kill all the bosses/trash w/e find a group using the chat that wants to do the same.

 

Or you can use chat to find a group to find people who want to play as little of the game as possible just like you.

I agree with the OP. Most of the bosses after the first drop Tio at least. And the Bonus bosses in HMs often drop bracers or belt (tio in the easy ones, columi in the longer ones like ilum/false emp).

 

A lot of people are just going for their daily random 5 blackhole comms. I can understand their desire to skip everything, since they're all full columi or better, and just want the comms.

 

But, with 1.5, we have a *lot* of returning players. Some of them are in oldschool pvp and tionese gear. We should help these people gear up, and experience / enjoy the content. We need to grow the community more.

 

More players means more profit for EA/Bioware which may lead to more content.

Ok I am going start by saying I start a FP by saying are we skipping what we can? If the answer is no I have no problems killing the bosses. I am not in the need of gear drops, daily comms, colum, tionese and even th BH comms I have very little need for but at least that is capped at 1k so I have a 500 or so before I hit that cap.

 

I just leveled a healer and as a fresh 50 I still wanted to skip as much as a could but that's just me. I will do the whole thing though if someone speaks up.

 

A quick solution and I am not sure if it is even possible have the actual bosses drop individual BH comms during GF FP's only maybe?

I don´t have to remind you how long a DPS usually waits until the flashpoint actually starts using groupfinder, and to be dissapointed after that long time over and over again is what I call gamebreaking.

 

 

You're being doubly selfish. You want people to take more time on runs, and enjoy it less, so that yuu can enjoy it more. And you play a DPS. DPS don't get a vote on anything. Supply exceeds demand, and so DPS have no value, and therefore what you want carries no weight. If you want to choose how a FP is run, play a tank or healer. Those two roles have a say.

If someone asks to not skip a boss I have no problem with it. But in the long run, that gear you get from those mobs before the final boss is pretty trivial unless you're gearing out your companions. BH Comms + final boss loot should be good enough... plus do your dailies, get credits and buy stuff from the AH that's ilvl63 crafted gear.

Personally I must say i prefer to skip all that can be skipped, due to the fact that all fp are downright boring, i have done them way too many times. That being said, if anyone needs something then i'll oblige, if they say that beforehand. I'll help people up to a point. I'll happily help peeps, tell em tactics or whatnot, again if they tell BEFOREHAND. if they dont, my patience will evaporate fast. Ive carried far too many groups through fp's with morons who refuse to admit that they've never done the fp before or are just plain unsuited to do it.

 

Id say when it comes to HM FP, quite a few want a speedrun, and some dont. but if say 3 want speed, and 1 want slow. why should the minority be obliged? If you want gear, sm ops is the way to go, finding a group during prime time isnt hard, if you want the story, sm fp is the way to go. If you want the full run of a hm fp, ask and see what response you get. some might be completly retarded, some wont.

 

And i see peeps here are arguing that hm fp is a good way to learn tactics and experience and all that. In one way i agree, in another i do not.

 

To know ones class and to know tactics are different, just cos you know your class doesnt necessarily mean you know tactics and knowing tactics dont necessarily mean you know the class. Doing a full run helps for tactics, and to some extent your class.

 

But to learn your class, operations are much better way to learn that. some might agree with this, some wont.

Edited November 28, 2012 by sripakdee

Every time I tank a place, I ask the group if they want to fully clear a place, or if they want me to skip what I know I can skip. If even ONE person says they want to complete all the bosses I have every intention of doing it. If people don't like it then fine, I'm a tank I get replacements pretty darn fast

I think this issue is being overblown. I think this is only an problem for Taral 5 (republic only) and Battle for Ilum where you end up skipping more bosses than fighting. You can skip one boss in Directive 7 (but you still have to kill 4 others). Are you including bonus mission bosses, because no one wants to do those. So maybe Taral 5 and Ilum need to be tweaked, but I can't think of any other major offender.

 

Also, I don't consider sub-bosses to be a reliable way to gear up. The loot table seems to contain every possible class/spec so getting the drop for your class/spec is a crap-shoot. Fast FPs get you faster commendations that you can turn in for the gear you want. I've suggested being able to do the daily dropbox quest multiple times a day but only 7 times a week, so you can maximize your FP time when queues are fast. This would allow you to get coms faster and gear up faster.

Edited November 28, 2012 by Willhousefour

I have a few well geared 50s and I think I speak for MOST others that we are more than happy to help kill a boss (after all they don't take long to kill) if you want something from it. After all, we have been in your shoes before. If you get a group that refuses then they are jerks (there are no shortage of them in this game). You were unlucky that time(put them on ignore if you want to avoid groups with them in future) but I would wager to guess that the next group would be more willing to help. Part of the fun of this game is gearing up even if it is a small upgrade and some people need to be reminded of that. Sadly, all to many people are just selfish and don't want to help others.

 

However, that being said. I would echo some of the other posts that the FREE recruit set that you get now is WAY better than the original set from pre-1.4 and is as good (if not better) than full Tionese. Therefore, skipping bosses to the final boss and going for the last drop and getting your BH comms is a better use of time... which is WHY many people don't want to spend the time on bosses that drop gear you are most likely to cast off in a few days or weeks.

 

At the beginning of the FP.. kindly ask "I need gear, can we please kill bosses?" more often than not... people are ok with that.

You wanna gear up at end-game? Find a good raiding guild to carry you through some SM EV or SM KP. The only real benefits of HM FP's right now is the Black Hole comms, unless they change drops.

I also like Unitz comment on gentlemanly behavoir to fellow players.

But the truth is Icestar - WillCaedes is right. Many 50's who cue only do HM FP for the coms. They are either saving up for a Hazmat piece or a extra piece of BH gear to modrip.

For those of us who have played since beta, we rember when columi was good. But since the Devs's fixed the loot drop several patches ago to go of party composition, the fp grind is no longer tedious. Anext patch might make HM FP obsolite. The Dev's in their finite wisdom will give a full set of tionese to all 50's that combined with the already free MK-2 recruit will equal SM OPS ready straight from fresh 50.

Find a active guild. Easy as that, I don't tank for non-family. The players in a guild WILL help any new player progress in loot and skill.

Having two geared Shadow tanks I have run all the FP's into the ground. Both tanks are in campain or hazmat, so the only thing I run HM's FP for is the 5 coms at the end. If we are doing a gear run for a new member , the rest of the group is doing the run for the BH coms aswell.

So an example of a good HM FP to skip? Tarel 5, the first boss doesn't drop any columi or tionese. The second boss drops one piece of tionese. But due to the story mechanics of T5 you must kill the second boss and his pet. The third boss - is the boss with mutagenic adds. It only drops a daily com and crystal. Its a waste of time to do. The four boss is the First boss worth doing. The giant droid drops a columi belt or implant. It also has a chance to drop some random piece of exotech. Oooh exotech - columi stats with out a set bounus. Come on. The final boss after defeat drops the runs sole dedicated columi token. If you were with a fairly skilled group it can be busted out in under 30 min.

So for the group that carried you they got 5 BH coms for helping you out and you got 5 BH coms. Not bad for 30 min worth of work. But lets say we take the original posters advice and do a clean sweep. The undergaered person will always die on one or two strong mobs because the healer can't reasonably carrie them at all times. On the first boss fight the undergeared player will die because of the fight mechanics of how the two hounds use the treat table. And after you burn dowm the first boss for basically the sheer joy of it. To the groups excitement no columi loot. The bounus boss is the same in this FP unless the group is uber geared the lightning attacks make it guarenteed wipefest.

So was it worth killing all bosses? I think not - when the loot drops and the repair bills add up.

What about the F2P players? They can't use artifact quality loot that drops. The F2P requires new players to buy the cartel coin consumable to use the drops. The F2P players only get three rolls a week, so why tease them untill the token drops at the final boss? Go strait to the end and grab the tokens and finish.

Would the original poster go through D7 and fight the bounus boss and the optinal boss? I hope not . Would they also fight all the trash manka cats in EV SM at the puzzle boss? Or all the mobs right before Karaga in SM KP? Since those ops are in group finder I used the the reference. That could add a hour or more to the instance but will the reward be better? The reward is the same either way. Why get frustrated?

Its not woth more than doing it a speed run.

To sum up the results of the discussion so far:

• either approach is perfectly fine
  
• When a group is composed of people who want different things, not everybody can be satisfied. It's not possible. Thus it's best to avoid that.
  
• There is no agreement at all on which side has exclusive access to the group finder. There is no rule about that, and speculation about how it's "intended" to be used, which makes "more sense" or the likes will not ever yield any result, because there are no absolute criteria on which to base such a rule.
  

 

So this seems to be the most logical flow:

1. Try to find a group in general chat that shares the same approach (skipping or not). If you find it, problem solved, otherwise:
   
2. Use groupfinder. Ask in the group if they want to skip or not. If all share the same goal, problem solved. Otherwise:
   
3. Get angry, call each other names, possibly ragequit - pretty much the same as in this thread
   

But the truth is Icestar - WillCaedes is right. Many 50's who cue only do HM FP for the coms.

 

I know that many of the level 50s that do HM FP does not care about what they do there, they only want to do their tokenrun and be done with it.

 

I am lifting this to the community and to Bioware because it is a gamebreaker for some players especially new, that wants to have a good time while playing.

 

Steamrolling through content and skipping bosses might not be that much fun, and I am sure there is much that can be done about this through future gamemechanics to please both sides.

 

Good constructive discussions everyone, keep it up

Edited November 29, 2012 by Icestar

Give us nightmare FPs.

I am lifting this to the community and to Bioware because it is a gamebreaker for some players especially new, that wants to have a good time while playing

 

Whoa....whoa...whoa....Heaven forbid that we have fun PLAYING the game while we play, rather than playing "paper dolls" and dressing up our characters.

Whoa....whoa...whoa....Heaven forbid that we have fun PLAYING the game while we play, rather than playing "paper dolls" and dressing up our characters.

 

I have teamed up with new and old players that has had a less enjoyable experience with those "fast run token chasers". I always ask in the start of the flashpoint because I am fine with either way, but some only assume things to work a certain way and get very upset when people do not agree with them,

 

So I would say that joining groupfinder should have the optimal setting for everyone to have a good time, at this moment as we have seen ingame and throughout the posts in this thread it does not work that way.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Icestar

Agree ^

The funny thing with this "skipping bosses" behavior is that lately I've been with groups that are well geared and yet have never done a particular boss in an FP because they always skipped it.

 

We then end up doing the boss, have a fun encounter, and generally the comments have been "that was a great fight, why do we always skip it?".

 

I personally like to do all bosses, whether I need them or not, but I get the motivation behind "skipping bosses" so I don't make a point of doing them all, but I am always the first to support someone's request to do a particular boss. I guess that is all anyone can do until the game enforces full completion of a dungeon (which, incidentally, I don't support ).

The funny thing with this "skipping bosses" behavior is that lately I've been with groups that are well geared and yet have never done a particular boss in an FP because they always skipped it.

 

We then end up doing the boss, have a fun encounter, and generally the comments have been "that was a great fight, why do we always skip it?".

 

I personally like to do all bosses, whether I need them or not, but I get the motivation behind "skipping bosses" so I don't make a point of doing them all, but I am always the first to support someone's request to do a particular boss. I guess that is all anyone can do until the game enforces full completion of a dungeon (which, incidentally, I don't support ).

 

I have seen this too. And the sad thing is that some of the "newer" or "less experienced" players are geared but not learning some of the boss mechanics in a FP that often show up in various forms in OPS.

Edited November 29, 2012 by ChicagoBearsFan
Spelling

The amount of people who want full runs is minimal inc comparison to people who expect a fast run, at least in my server. The paramount thing to do in all these disputes is to first ask, but understand that you may get a no for answer.

The amount of people who want full runs is minimal inc comparison to people who expect a fast run, at least in my server.

I always find these affirmations interesting. How do you know it is the majority that want fast runs? Do you ask at the beginning of a FP and 3 out of 4 say "fast run"? Or is it just that one guy saying "keep running, the boss resets" and then everyone follows because they are afraid to "stick out"? Food for thought...

 

The paramount thing to do in all these disputes is to first ask, but understand that you may get a no for answer.

Exactly!

I always find these affirmations interesting. How do you know it is the majority that want fast runs? Do you ask at the beginning of a FP and 3 out of 4 say "fast run"? Or is it just that one guy saying "keep running, the boss resets" and then everyone follows because they are afraid to "stick out"? Food for thought.

 

What I look at is how often I get requests to do full runs, since I am a tank it generally falls to me to make such binding decisions for the team.