WARNING: This thread has become less than civil. Please do not attack each other directly. Name calling, and throwing out facts without proof is not the way to win your arguments. Do not feed the trolls. If someone attacks you, just continue with your conversation like they do not exist. Thanks! -Imper1um

TL;DR; The Nerf's correct wording should be as follows:

• Slicing's missions have been nerfed by 71%

----------------------------

What changed?

Approximately 1pm ET today, the servers came up, and, as I have tested the raw data last time, I decided to do a raw data test. Most of the Slicers already know that its been nerfed, however, not many have known exactly how much the nerf has changed.

How hard did they nerf it?

Pretty hard. We're looking at a 71-95% from pre-nerf. Credits Per Second (CPS) is down to 0.34 on L4 missions, and 0.38 on L5 missions.

Is it worth taking slicing now?

To be honest, unless you're farming for Augments, it really isn't. 0.38 CPS is a pretty low number for your return. If you're really unlucky, you could have negative CPS very easily.

What was it before?

Approximately 1.2-1.3 CPS for L4 boxes, 0.9 for L5 boxes and 0.7 for L6 boxes.

Do the higher boxes give more CPS now?

L5 boxes got a slight buff, but I just may have been lucky. L6 boxes are still the same. Avoid.

How much do you think I could make in a day?

Probably about 100k in a day, farming for 24 hours with no breaks. In 8 hours, you probably would make a third of that.

So it no longer covers the cost of running missions?

No. Not at all. You're looking at a return of 200-500 credits after you consider how much you spent on the slicing mission itself. If you want to cover the cost of running other missions, you will need to send 4 of the 5 of your companions, and then you may cover the costs of the fifth mission.

Does companion affection increase my CPS?

Barely. You'll get slightly better rewards, but you're looking at a 0.01-0.04 CPS increase. Companion Affection doesn't decrease time spent anymore, either. This makes me sad panda.

Did the crit rate change as well?

Yes, I think. I didn't test it very well pre-patch, but it looks like the Crit rate has decreased by the same 71%.

I'm sticking with slicing for the money. What do you advise for missions now?

Level 5 lockboxes. Crit rate is decent, and if you have high affection, you will get more money that way.

Do you think it was overnerfed?

Yes, and no. I think slicing did[/b] need a nerf, but more of a 40-60% nerf, not a 71% nerf. As it stands, Slicing requires 4 of the 5 companions to pay for 1 non-slicing mission. Pre-patch it was 1 companion, maybe 2. Cutting the slicing by 40-60% requires 3 companions, but still allows 2 companions to go on missions. As it stands, you will need 4 companions to still make money (a little) and run 1 non-slicing mission.

What was your testing method?

5 companions running missions from Level 1 to Level 5. To be honest, I only completed 16% of my testing because the data was looking dreary. I will continue tomorrow when I get out of the drearyness this nerf brought about.

Do you think I should replace slicing with another mission skill?

Not really. Slicing helps in some flashpoints, and I think they will realize that this nerf is too "nerfy". It was a "reactionary nerf", seeing that pre-nerf, you could get 1 million credits in less than 4 days. It was making slicing required. Now, its optional, which is what the crew skills are...OPTIONAL.

Should I just run "abundant" yield missions?

Not really. Abundant yields mean more credits, but the CPS is only slightly higher. You're still spending more time, and spending more money. Its kind of funny, really.

Can I see your statistics?

Of course, that's what I'm here for. I'm not going to publish the full work until I'm done with testing (50 of each mission), but I will post my preliminary data below.

UPDATED: December 28, 2011 (9:35a ET)

If it's not made for money making, then what use is slicing?

This is easy. On some FPs, you will be granted some extra bonuses, such as on Collocoid War Games where you can get your very own pet for the last fight! Secondly, slicing is made to offset the guaranteed negative CPS that each profession gives you. Also, there are cases around the galaxy which are worth the same amount that you make on a mission, for free! Do some exploration, and you will find them.

You mentioned a Negative CPS in certain cases, is this the case the entire time?

Yes, and no. You can get a Negative CPS streak very easily. Failure rate, low returns can all attribute to a Negative CPS. However, statistics show that you will get Positive CPS eventually to negate the Negative CPS. Just don't expect to always go up anymore.

So are the best missions now rank 5, regardless if there are abundant/rich yield missions on the other ranks?

Yes. The game seems to equal out at Level 5 missions, but do not disregard Level 6 and Level 4. Level 4 has the proof that it is only *very* slightly lower than Level 5 missions. This is because Level 5 has a higher crit yield. Also, you cannot run just Level 5 missions; you are only given 3 to run, so you have to look to Level 6 and Level 4. Use my information to decide what you do with your other two companions.

Discussion: Is Slicing now the underdog of the Crew Missions?

The answer is yes and no. Gatherables (such as BioAnalysis), grant you items. If you vendor them, you will not turn a profit on these missions. However, if you can sell on the Market (or whatever its called) for credits to other players, right now you can turn a lucrative profit. However, after a month or two once the nerf takes place, the credit requirement that people are advertising for the items may go down, and the other mission/gathering skills will turn less of a profit on the Market, and may come more in line with Slicing, but still will not be anywhere close where Slicing is right now.

----------------------

The results

Missions Remaining

Level	Number	Remaining	% Comp
1	4	46	8%
2	5	45	10%
3	4	46	8%
4	7	43	14%
5	9	41	18%
6	14	36	28%
% Complete	14.33%	

Current CPS

Level	SUM CPS		Average CPS
1	0.129166667	0.032291667
2	0.605650492	0.121130098
3	0.819545861	0.204886465
4	2.432370979	0.347481568
5	3.438934908	0.382103879
6	2.683796296	0.191699735

Current Time

Level	SUM	Average		Minutes
1	840		210		3.5
2	1535		307		5.1
3	3366		841.5	14
4	8324		1189.1	19.8
5	14704	1633.7	27.2
6	28224	2016		33.6

Average Return

Level	Sum		Average
1	863		215.75
2	1954		390.8
3	3423		855.75
4	11043	1577.571429
5	18173	2019.222222
6	25805	1843.214286

Average Delta

Level	Sum	Average
1	33	8.25
2	124	24.8
3	663	165.75
4	3128	446.8571429
5	5888	654.2222222
6	5505	393.2142857

Current Data

Who	Affection	Mission Name	Level	Yield	Minutes	Seconds	Total Seconds	Cost	Gain	Delta	CPS
C2-N2	0	An Open Contract	1	Abundant	3	0	180	120	149	29	0.161111111
Lieutenant Iresso	4322	An Open Contract	1	Abundant	3	0	180	120	85	-35	-0.194444444
C2-N2	0	Vanishing Acts	1	Rich	4	0	240	295	284	-11	-0.045833333
Lieutenant Iresso	4322	Vanishing Acts	1	Rich	4	0	240	295	345	50	0.208333333
Theran Cedrax	7289	Finders Keepers	2	Moderate	4	0	240	220	250	30	0.125
Theran Cedrax	7289	For Better or Worse	2	Rich	6	0	360	535	477	-58	-0.161111111
Zenith	3635	High Finance	2	Rich	5	0	300	285	579	294	0.98
Zenith	5635	Identify and Neutralize	2	Rich	6	35	395	560	405	-155	-0.392405063
Lieutenant Iresso	4322	Pirate Partygoers	2	Moderate	4	0	240	230	243	13	0.054166667
C2-N2	0	Arranged Accidents	3	Rich	12	12	732	870	1097	227	0.31010929
Theran Cedrax	7289	Droid Madness	3	Abundant	9	42	582	460	567	107	0.183848797
C2-N2	0	Prince of Fools	3	Bountiful	11	0	660	780	892	112	0.16969697
Lieutenant Iresso	4322	Twist Their Arm	3	Prosperous*	23	12	1392	650	867	217	0.155890805
C2-N2	0	Be Careful What You Read	4	Bountiful	18	33	1113	1175	1777	602	0.540880503
Zenith	3635	His Home is his Castle	4	Abundant	26	16	1576	1075	2382	1307	0.829314721
C2-N2	0	Pointing Fingers	4	Bountiful	19	22	1162	1250	1234	-16	-0.013769363
C2-N2	0	Pointing Fingers	4	Bountiful	19	22	1162	1250	1542	292	0.251290878
C2-N2	0	Pointing Fingers	4	Bountiful	19	22	1162	1250	1919	669	0.575731497
Zenith	3635	Pointing Fingers	4	Bountiful	19	22	1162	1250	1438	188	0.161790017
Zenith	3635	Spy Droid	4	Moderate	16	27	987	665	751	86	0.087132725
Zenith	5635	Finding Our Way	5	Rich	29	28	1768	1930	2357	427	0.241515837
Theran Cedrax	7289	Finding Our Way	5	Rich	29	28	1768	1930	1470	-460	-0.260180995
Zenith	3635	His Home is his Castle	5	Abundant	26	16	1576	1075	1272	197	0.125
Zenith	3635	His Home is his Castle	5	Abundant	26	16	1576	1075	1533	458	0.290609137
C2-N2	0	Off the Grid	5	Abundant	27	4	1624	1135	1492	357	0.219827586
Lieutenant Iresso	4322	Off the Grid	5	Abundant	27	4	1624	1135	1261	126	0.077586207
Zenith	5635	Sabotage and Repair	5	Moderate	24	32	1472	990	928	-62	-0.042119565
Nadia Grell	10000	Sabotage and Repair	5	Moderate	24	32	1472	990	1985	995	0.675951087
Nadia Grell	10000	Taking Back Control	5	Rich	30	24	1824	2025	5875	3850	2.110745614
C2-N2	0	Plug the Leak	6	Moderate	31	12	1872	1415	1944	529	0.28258547
Lieutenant Iresso	4322	Plug the Leak	6	Moderate	31	12	1872	1415	1184	-231	-0.123397436
Lieutenant Iresso	4322	Plug the Leak	6	Moderate	31	12	1872	1415	2026	611	0.326388889
Theran Cedrax	7289	Plug the Leak	6	Moderate	31	12	1872	1415	1306	-109	-0.058226496
Theran Cedrax	7289	Plug the Leak	6	Moderate	31	12	1872	1415	1416	1	0.000534188
Theran Cedrax	7289	Plug the Leak	6	Moderate	31	12	1872	1415	1795	380	0.202991453
Theran Cedrax	7289	Plug the Leak	6	Moderate	31	12	1872	1415	2132	717	0.383012821
C2-N2	0	The Azure Databanks	6	Abundant	36	0	2160	1485	3374	1889	0.874537037
Lieutenant Iresso	4322	The Azure Databanks	6	Abundant	36	0	2160	1485	1192	-293	-0.135648148
Lieutenant Iresso	4322	The Azure Databanks	6	Abundant	36	0	2160	1485	1707	222	0.102777778
Lieutenant Iresso	4322	The Azure Databanks	6	Abundant	36	0	2160	1485	2095	610	0.282407407
Theran Cedrax	7289	The Azure Databanks	6	Abundant	36	0	2160	1485	1626	141	0.065277778
Theran Cedrax	7289	The Azure Databanks	6	Abundant	36	0	2160	1485	1949	464	0.214814815
Theran Cedrax	7289	The Azure Databanks	6	Abundant	36	0	2160	1485	2059	574	0.265740741

You can Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V this into Excel and it will put it out there correctly.

Sooo....

You guys have to farm credits like the rest of us?

The horror.

A very impressive and informative thread you have here.

I'm not at the point where I can take crew skills yet, but when I am I was planning on taking artifice, archaeology, and treasure hunting because I want to make lightsabers and the such. I was also planning to take slicing on the side to help fund some skill levelling and missions. Now, not so sure about slicing...

Do you have any advice as far as these plans? I hope I'm making the right move.

Thank you for unlocking the post.

I'm not whining, I'm just giving you guys the Raw Data. I did extensive testing, and I plan on continuing to do extensive testing on the game.

I wanted a nerf. It needed a nerf. However, the data shows that it may not be worth it at all anymore.

The main purpose of the post was to provide RAW data to people. That is about it. Thank you.

A very impressive and informative thread you have here.

 

I'm not at the point where I can take crew skills yet, but when I am I was planning on taking artifice, archaeology, and treasure hunting because I want to make lightsabers and the such. I was also planning to take slicing on the side to help fund some skill levelling and missions. Now, not so sure about slicing...

 

Do you have any advice as far as these plans? I hope I'm making the right move.

My advice is that Slicing is *still* viable, just understand you will need to send 4 of the 5 of your people on L4/L5 slicing missions to make money while having the fifth person do a non-slicing mission.

Is slicing completely useless now?

No! Its not! Dropping it is a reactionary move. You won't gain as much credits due to the nerf, but its not made for money making. This is supposed to be an optional skill.

Sooo....

 

You guys have to farm credits like the rest of us?

 

The horror.

Um, no. If you had more than a 2nd grade reading comprehension level you'd see that about 100k per 24 hours for "pressing a button" as the simpletons call it, is the expected yield. So it's still, go PvP or quest and make money too. Just not enough that I'm going to share it by buying over priced goods on the GTN.

Um, no. If you had more than a 2nd grade reading comprehension level you'd see that about 100k per 24 hours for "pressing a button" as the simpletons call it, is the expected yield. So it's still, go PvP or quest and make money too. Just not enough that I'm going to share it by buying over priced goods on the GTN.

These are my feelings

Before, I could foot my guild's repair bills + assist with purchasing mats for myself and everyone's crafting skills.

Now, I plan on retaining the earnings to foot my own repair bill, then maybe I'll have some pocket change leftover for the occasional dinner out.

But you can bet I won't be buying your mats on the GTN.

Also, incredibly informative thread. Thank you for this. I love seeing the intelligent threads versus the bantering going on. I was hoping for a slicing nerf (I'm sitting at 400 slicing myself, and it did seem rather...extravagant), but I was hoping for more of a 30-50% nerf. Anywhere in there would have suited me quite fine, but I guesstimated a 80% nerf and looks like I overshot it a bit but that's still rather extreme.

Um, no. If you had more than a 2nd grade reading comprehension level you'd see that about 100k per 24 hours for "pressing a button" as the simpletons call it, is the expected yield. So it's still, go PvP or quest and make money too. Just not enough that I'm going to share it by buying over priced goods on the GTN.

Please do not feed the trolls. I would like better discussion on, perhaps, what they think the CPS should be.

Now take your slightly positive CPS, and factor in the steeply negative CPS that the other professions have, and you'll see why Slicing is now in-balance.

I'd enjoy seeing your math on this.

My buddy that I leveled with has TH as his primary gathering professions. He does very well for himself because he is able to sell the items he receives from the missions (in addition to the lockboxes).

Same goes with my guildies who run UT, they do pretty well for themselves after taking the time to sell the returns.

Is slicing completely useless now?

No! Its not! Dropping it is a reactionary move. You won't gain as much credits due to the nerf, but its not made for money making. This is supposed to be an optional skill.

If it's not made for money making, then what use is slicing?

From how it sounds, the chance of actually turning a profit from slicing have gone down exponentially. I thought slicing was all about the credits. If it costs more money to slice than it makes, then why still slice? I mean, sending your companions out on slicing missions is expensive, is it not? You have to do more than break even if it's to be worth it.

I'd enjoy seeing your math on this.

 

My buddy that I leveled with has TH as his primary gathering professions. He does very well for himself because he is able to sell the items he receives from the missions (in addition to the lockboxes).

 

Same goes with my guildies who run UT, they do pretty well for themselves after taking the time to sell the returns.

And if there weren't 8 times more slicers than any other profession, you'd almost certainly do very well selling your premium missions and augments, but the profession was broken, everyone chose it for free credits, and now there's no market for augments.

And I'm going to wager your buddy (anecdotal evidence FTL, by the way) wasn't making nearly as much as you were making while never having to leave your ship. He, on the other hand, likely has overflowing holds with items he can't sell, and if he sat down and did the math on how much missions cost him compared to how much he makes, I doubt he'd come close to .38 CPS unless he's just getting really lucky on some of his rewards.

Now take your slightly positive CPS, and factor in the steeply negative CPS that the other professions have, and you'll see why Slicing is now in-balance.

Dude, stop being *I can't say it for fear of being banned*. Other professions don't have negative CPS, because you are guaranteed something in return of your time. With slicing the way they have done it, you're not. You obviously know this, you obviously relish in it and are just being a troll for troll's sake. So you got me, congrats.

Sooo....

 

You guys have to farm credits like the rest of us?

 

The horror.

Im sorry when its 2 months form now and everyone is paying top credit for our overpriced gear to do operations and I still have no credits

If it's not made for money making, then what use is slicing?

 

From how it sounds, the chance of actually turning a profit from slicing have gone down exponentially. I thought slicing was all about the credits. If it costs more money to slice than it makes, then why still slice? I mean, sending your companions out on slicing missions is expensive, is it not? You have to do more than break even if it's to be worth it.

Go out into the world, play the game, find lockboxes, slice them, get credits. Instant profitability.

Other professions bleed money doing missions forcing them to actually finance their own progression as they essentially buy skill-ups.

Slicing doesn't have to do that. You get to level up the skill all the way to 400 for a tiny fraction of what it costs any other gathering profession to reach that level. You can have a rank 400 skill at level 8 which is ridiculous. This is the only game I've ever played (other than Eve) which gives you the abiilty to train a skill and get skill points without DOING anything. And yes, that skill point should cost you credits.

And if there weren't 8 times more slicers than any other profession, you'd almost certainly do very well selling your premium missions and augments, but the profession was broken, everyone chose it for free credits, and now there's no market for augments.

 

And I'm going to wager your buddy (anecdotal evidence FTL, by the way) wasn't making nearly as much as you were making while never having to leave your ship. He, on the other hand, likely has overflowing holds with items he can't sell, and if he sat down and did the math on how much missions cost him compared to how much he makes, I doubt he'd come close to .38 CPS unless he's just getting really lucky on some of his rewards.

There's never really been a market for augmets.

Atleast there's only 2 pages of augments on my server's GTN, and that's not a whole lot compared to how many pages of Crew Skill Mission Discoveries there are.

Thing is people have to craft exceptional (I believe that's the one) before they even have an augment slot, and that seem to be an extremely rare occasion that even happens.

Go out into the world, play the game, find lockboxes, slice them, get credits. Instant profitability.

 

Other professions bleed money doing missions forcing them to actually finance their own progression as they essentially buy skill-ups.

 

Slicing doesn't have to do that. You get to level up the skill all the way to 400 for a tiny fraction of what it costs any other gathering profession to reach that level. You can have a rank 400 skill at level 8 which is ridiculous. This is the only game I've ever played (other than Eve) which gives you the abiilty to train a skill and get skill points without DOING anything. And yes, that skill point should cost you credits.

Wrong... slicing is a gathering profession. Not a crafting one. No skills to buy. Might as well nerf UWT and Diplo. Both of those are highly more profitable than slicing.

Wrong... slicing is a gathering profession. Not a crafting one. No skills to buy. Might as well nerf UWT and Diplo. Both of those are highly more profitable than slicing.

Really? Hmm... Maybe I'll try UWT then...

Now take your slightly positive CPS, and factor in the steeply negative CPS that the other professions have, and you'll see why Slicing is now in-balance.

That might be true while leveling a gathering skill, but at 400/400, I see much more profit from Salvaging. All I need to do is check the GTM to see what materials are in demand, then run missions for them. Some compounds and metals gross over 1,000 credits per piece. Materials in some other professions sell at even higher prices.

It's unprofitable to drop Slicing at this point, but if I had it to do over, I would go with something else. Slicing yields are capped at a low rate, but other gathering professions can go as high as product demand takes them.

I like expected value better than some sort of rate like credits per second. People didn't get credits per second. They got an expected return, which, even before the nerf, was hardly comparable to grinding trivial content.

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~chance/teaching_aids/books_articles/probability_book/Chapter6.pdf

Wrong... slicing is a gathering profession. Not a crafting one. No skills to buy. Might as well nerf UWT and Diplo. Both of those are highly more profitable than slicing.

Skill-ups, not skills. Skill POINTS, not skills. You were advancing your capabilities as a slicer and actually making credits doing it, whereas all the other gathering professions have to either skill-up gradually as they move on to higher level zones by farming nodes, or they can do it through missions and it will cost them a HUGE amount of credits. It would cost something like 300,000 credits to level scavenging to 400 through missions. Slicers were doing it and making a hundred thousand credits on top of that, and then continued making thousands of credits an hour after that. And could do it without ever leaving their ship.

How anyone can think that's not OP is beyond me.

Based on my own trials. I can confirm the OP's findings. And I agree, unless your in it for the augments, its not worth it. You can kill mobs and get body loot/credits that create more income at a far faster rate.

The problem is, killing mobs requires you to actually play the game.

Wierd concept, I know. BW never should have allowed slicing to release as it was. You all obviously have been spoiled by free money for doing nothing and now think you're entitled to it.