I think there needs to be bigger incentives for doing a flashpoint when not max level.

 

As of right now - LFG works. But the problem isnt so much LFG itself, its the rewards for completing a flashpoint via LFG. Or more precisely, the players themselves who just arent interested in doing a flashpoint when they are more interested in planetary missions and class missions. Or even pvp.

 

Even if you spent the credits on maxing out flashpoint experience perks - which im sure most would not bother - its just not enough to get people in the queue.

 

Do a search for a flashpoint's level bracket, and you will see a massive number of players online. The players are THERE. They just arent queueing in the LFG tool. Why? My guess would be that the incentives for doing a flashpoint just arent there.

 

If it isnt experience - with the 1.3 bonuses to XP from character perks, then what is it? Loot? The loot system is much better than it was back when it started. It even automatically denies loot to those who cannot fully use it, ensuring anything that is designed for you either gets automatically given, or you roll fairly with players who also can use it. What about accomplishments? Most flashpoints have satisfying story in them, so it must be something else.

 

Truth of the matter is this - non-max level flashpoints just arent interesting to players. They simply dont want to do them. Of course it does not help the matter that doing a flashpoint with LFG, you exit back at the fleet and must spend some time getting back to where you were in the galaxy.

Edited July 13, 2012 by MouseNoFour

I must say that the incentives would have to be pretty stupendous to entice me to spend around half my usual available playtime re-doing content I've seen before. After the first time in a flashpoint, I'd much rather be doing new quests, and seeing new areas than repeating a flashpoint ad nauseum. As things stand I see no compelling reason to do them more than once. Perhaps it would be different if they were substantially shorter, or the rewards were more tangible, or guaranteed, instead of pot-luck.

Personally I would queue for flashpoints while leveling but it's going to drop me at the fleet when it ends. I don't want to run back to my class quest each time the queue pops.

Personally I would queue for flashpoints while leveling but it's going to drop me at the fleet when it ends. I don't want to run back to my class quest each time the queue pops.

 

Agree.

Two things keep me from running flashpoints while I level:

 

1) The "dumped off at the fleet" issue. Travel and load times etc just make this suck...

 

2) I am probably in the minority here but while I love the story driven quests etc while leveling I really don't like story driven "dungeons". I genuinely liked blowing up heroics etc in WoW but flashpoints in SWTOR just feel disjointed- not to mention you can never get a group of folks that all agree on the spacebar.

 

Does a "daily" flashpoint system exist in SWTOR? I'm still relatively new.

Thanks for posting this!

 

I've been trying to level my new Operative healer primarily through instances and class quests, with a side order of Space Quests. Before Group Finder there was pretty much no way that I was going to get a group together for a low-level instance on my server. So it has been a lot of fun to get to see this content as it was intended to be seen... and to flush Mandalorians out an airlock, of course!

 

That said, I see a few big flaws in the system right now that is making it a bit painful:

- Experience point gain / hour is too low except when you have both Daily Quests (Group Finder and Emerging Conflicts).

- Rewards are quite weak, except when you have both Daily Quests.

- You don't automatically get the Emerging Conflict Daily quest assigned to you when you enter the instance for the first time that day, you either need to go to Imp Fleet or hope someone will share with you (I now do this as a matter of course when entering a Flashpoint).

- You get dumped back at the Fleet when you are done. (They indicated they are going to fix this, at least.) This makes doing your Class quests really hard.

 

I'm not sure if Bioware wants these, but here's a few solutions that don't seem that hard:

- (don't dump folks at fleet after using Group Finder)

- Make the Group Finder quests and the Emerging Conflicts quests infinitely repeatable below level 50 (or at whatever level makes sense.. I know they want to limit Black Hold and Daily Commendation creation so keep those as Dailies).

- Alternatively: significantly boost the XP, Credit and add a Commendation reward for the already repeatable Flashpoint main quest.

- Either automatically grant the Emerging Conflict quest or place a quest-giving box inside the instance. Don't make folks go to Fleet to get it.

- A pipe dream, I suspect, but give folks some way to discover flight points other than manually running / riding there.

 

I suspect that this will fix the other major fault of group finder as described to me by folks I run with: lack of heal spec healers. If they can give us healers the ability to level up AS HEALERS without it being really painfully slow most of the time they might see a few more of us out there.

I find running the group finder on my sorc healer to be quite effective. I usually only have to wait a couple of minutes if that to get a que (level 14-29 range). I have bought the experience bonuses and usually gain a level every 2 to 4 flashpoints; i usually take a leader role and push people to finish the flashpoint as fast as possible.

 

I plan on trying to avoid as much questing as possible, and only do my class quests when i am in fear of them going grey. I avoid most of the quest content because i have some of the quests already five to seven times, and really dont care to do it again.

 

When it comes down to experience per hour, it is really dependent on me logging in peak hours and playing that character; if i do so, the exp per hour is far better then PvP, and the majority of planets i been on.

 

I believe more and more people will start to use flashpoints to level up, after they are working on their third, fourth, and fifth alt through the same content.

I find the LFG tool to be very effective, if only a little clunky - which is acceptable considering how new it is.

 

The big issue isnt whether it works, but how enticing it is to use it. Like i said, the players are there, they are online.

 

But how can Bioware make doing a flashpoint - or more to the point - actually queueing at all, something that players will want to do.

 

In a lot of MMO's - and im not going to point fingers here - do it quite well.

 

- You put yourself in the LFG tool, and continue on with your solo thing.

 

- You can group up, complete a zone group quest without it interfering with the LFG tool, and have it pop whilst your doing your own thing.

 

- The most you ever have to do to get the most benefit out of it, is to simply hit the queue button, and then accept the settings.

 

- Once it pops, you make your way - ending combat as soon as possible if you are fighting - to a location where you know you are relatively safe.

 

- Accept the phased group content and are instantly teleported to it.

 

- Any missions/quests that are relevant are already either accepted upon entering the phase, or are available right as you enter. Whats more, is the objectives of those missions/quests are all along the path that you are guaranteed to take, and handing the completed objectives in, are either to an npc at the end, or automatically completed once they are done.

 

- Once everything is done and you leave the phase, you arrive back exactly where you were when you queued.

Edited July 14, 2012 by MouseNoFour

The biggest problem is that tanks don't seem to queue up for low level flashpoints much. Most days I do the pvp daily and 1 random flashpoint on my Jugg alt. I'm dps spec but still queue as tank and always get a run going in under 15 minutes. Tanking is easy enough even with a dps spec, though I'm rage starved a lot. I will probably have to change to a tank spec mid 40s though.

Another big problem is this: On my Mercenary, i decided to test out the flashpoint XP bonuses.

 

So i purchased every single flashpoint bonus under Character Perks. Every one of them. I then proceeded to respec Healer and do a bunch of flashpoints.

 

5 bars for 5 flashpoints. Pitiful XP gain. Why was it so low? Everyone - these were all pugs ive never played with before, meaning 5 x 3 other players - skipped over as many of the trash as possible to end the flashpoint as quickly as possible. Only 3/5 flashpoints did they even kill every boss AND finish the bonus missions.

My queues take less than 5 minutes, as a DPS! I have no problems with this system as a Republic Player on The Fatman. Been queueing off and on since 30, I'm now 41.

 

I got to see Taral V, Maelstrom Prison, and a few others I can't remember the names of currently.

My queues take less than 5 minutes, as a DPS! I have no problems with this system as a Republic Player on The Fatman. Been queueing off and on since 30, I'm now 41.

 

I got to see Taral V, Maelstrom Prison, and a few others I can't remember the names of currently.

 

There's the difference.

So, I decided to go free-form with my final alt. Once 1.3 came out, I maxed out the flashpoint and pvp experience perks. Then how do I level? I gather the daily quests, queue up for FP's and WZ's and keep playing.

 

I don't do the same, boring planet quests I've already seen 3 times and I get a lot of experience playing my class under real duress instead of, "Here's one really hard enemy, but that's it." Instead, I'm having to play against other players, who don't always do the same thing in the same situation, and can actually surprise me.

 

The FP's might have been a mistake because my WZ to flashpoint queue rate is something like 5:1. However, I feel like the incentive is there and tuned properly. A few level-appropriate planet commendations feels right on the money. I dunno, maybe a lockbox with some credits and gear like the pvp daily gives us already would feel better?

 

I really think it's just that you get dropped back at the fleet rather than where you already were. Fix that, and the masses will come.

I'll just go ahead and give a list of things that demotivate me from running a pre-50 flashpoint:

 

 

• Not enough experience, both from mobs, bosses and quest reward. It needs to be greater than normal questing for me to even consider going into one simply because leveling is the biggest achiles heel in this game for me right now (the stupid amount of time it takes)
   
   
  
• Can't drop back to the planet i was in, being left in the fleet is a major issue for me. I don't even mind to be dropped at the planet's spaceport i was in.
   
   
  
• Content is too repetitive. Not an issue of flashpoints per-se, but there has to be an incentive for me to run something i've seen before to compensate for the boredom of it. The greatest reward would be a choice between an artifact item, a ton of planet comentations or a huge exp boost - something like a choice between an artifact-grade armorpiece, 15 planet comendations or 50k exp at level 30 (+/- depending on levels ofc).
   
   
  
• Correlated with the points above - the exp bonus legacy perk gives too little bonus to matter, it needs a huge boost for it to be worth it. And cost is not a problem: its the bonus exp that is meager.
  

 

If the exp was worth it i would spend all my time in flashpoints socialising with people, running with guildies, etc...

Edited July 17, 2012 by celldoom

I'll just go ahead and give a list of things that demotivate me from running a pre-50 flashpoint:

 

 

• Not enough experience, both from mobs, bosses and quest reward. It needs to be greater than normal questing for me to even consider going into one simply because leveling is the biggest achiles heel in this game for me right now (the stupid amount of time it takes)
   
   
  
• Can't drop back to the planet i was in, being left in the fleet is a major issue for me. I don't even mind to be dropped at the planet's spaceport i was in.
   
   
  
• Content is too repetitive. Not an issue of flashpoints per-se, but there has to be an incentive for me to run something i've seen before to compensate for the boredom of it. The greatest reward would be a choice between an artifact item, a ton of planet comentations or a huge exp boost - something like a choice between an artifact-grade armorpiece, 15 planet comendations or 50k exp at level 30 (+/- depending on levels ofc).
   
   
  
• Correlated with the points above - the exp bonus legacy perk gives too little bonus to matter, it needs a huge boost for it to be worth it. And cost is not a problem: its the bonus exp that is meager.
  

 

If the exp was worth it i would spend all my time in flashpoints socialising with people, running with guildies, etc...

 

None of this demotivates me. I get a chance to play all flashpoints during my storyline without waiting for friends to log in. It gives great experience if you're playing at right level and I don't need to do side quests on planets anymore. I'll just do daily pvp, flashpoints, main class and planetary quests. Every 5 levels I do space missions, upgrade my ship, another round with space missions, 1 level more, etc. With comendations I upgrade my gear, go to the next planet, all good.

 

I really don't fell bad going back to the fleet because I need to return to bounty board so, all good.

 

If anything demotivates me, I'll just quit. You know, as I'm paying for fun, not to work.

I'd really like it if the LFG system could use some kind of gear and/or talent check to ensure the character is able to fill the roll the player has selected.

 

- At lowe levels I get into a group with noboy spec for heals or tanking.

- At high levels the tank with 16k hp joins lost island and everyone grones when he says, "this is my first HM flashpoint." then promplty uses the vote kick.

- I have gotten into groups at both max level and mid level where the tank selected really is a dps and somehow he miss queued as a tank.

 

Some kind of validation would prevent user error as well as ensure that the character is capable of fufilling the role required of the flashpoint. I belive any form of gear and talent validation would improve the group finder user experience substanially at all levels.

Personally I never use the LFG tool as i prefer grouping with my friends and guild members instead. I know them and never have to worry about someone getting impatient and wanting to rush through flashpoints. We just take our time and enjoy playing with each other.

I have a 20-40 min queue on my fresh trooper im leveling so i normally stay questing until my queue pops.

my only dislikes of the TOR LFG are.....

-Getting droppped at fleet (sometimes its handy for upping professions and skills but most of the time its a pain)

-Having to do lower level FP's that have no tangible rewards.

 

I think the amount of xp and gear (provided they're of level instances) is well worth the 30-40 mins it takes to complete one.I just wish more people would queue up or roll tanks/heals.

Two things keep me from running flashpoints while I level:

 

1) The "dumped off at the fleet" issue. Travel and load times etc just make this suck...

 

2) I am probably in the minority here but while I love the story driven quests etc while leveling I really don't like story driven "dungeons". I genuinely liked blowing up heroics etc in WoW but flashpoints in SWTOR just feel disjointed- not to mention you can never get a group of folks that all agree on the spacebar.

 

Does a "daily" flashpoint system exist in SWTOR? I'm still relatively new.

 

1st one.. of course.. everyone agrees there.

 

2nd one.. I like the story driven dungeons... The problem is half of the flashpoints aren't those. Athiss, Mandalorian Raiders, Hammer Station, etc these are trumped up heroics to me. Esselles never gets old to me. Kaon Under Siege's story doesn't get old. The two jedi prisoners flashpoints don't really get old to me. Everything else though? I don't feel any emotional attachment to the events, and I don't think they actually tried to make the emotional connection at all. I don't care about the story. Esselles to me is the quintesential flashpoint. It was what was promised at the start of this game. And everything else seems to one extent or another rushed.