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Kaggath Suggestions...


Beniboybling

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As a little bit of an aside, and something of a commentary on the Kaggath in general.

 

There was an interesting moment in season one of the Game of Thrones TV series, where Cersei confronts Littlefinger with several of her guardsmen. Littlefinger plays something of a shadow game, manipulating people and trying to work behind the scenes. At the end of the their conversation, Littlefinger says, "Information is power" as he threatens to blackmail Cersei. Her response is to command her guards, "Seize him". They do, and she says, "Cut his throat." One guardsman draws his dagger and is reaching for Littlefinger's throat when Cersei stops him, saying "No, wait, I've changed my mind. Release him."

 

Littlefinger looks terrified, and Cersei reminds him that "Power is power."

 

What I'm getting at here is that I've noticed, over the course of the Kaggath, is that many people believe that characters like Xizor, G0-T0, and other criminal elements can simply spend and extort their way out of every problem. However, there is a vast difference between the power of crime bosses and kings.

 

Crime bosses must move entirely in the shadows, and while this at first seems like a strength, it is actually a significant weakness. A shrewd enemy can also dance in the shadows with them, but at the same time wield power openly. The ability to command a fleet, an army, the loyalty of professional soldiers, far exceeds to ability to purchase mercenaries and extort your rivals.

 

Characters like Darth Vader, or Traya, or Revan all have a duality of power. They employ skilled assassins and spies, but also wield raw authority. They have fleets and soldiers who can move without fear of discovery, and this is a tremendous advantage.

 

When considering a power base for a Kaggath, remember that it's not just what someone controls, but how they control it. A criminal who survives by hiding in the shadows is always living in the fear that someone will shine a light one them, betray them when they least expect it. A Sith Lord can be betrayed, but such things are not always fatal. They are individually powerful in addition to commanding open authority.

 

In my opinion, we should probably separate the Kaggath into tiers. The top tier would be characters with access to military, economic, and political power (spies/intelligence networks can also be considered political in nature). Anyone with only two of those pillars should probably only be paired against other people who fall into this "second tier".

 

Within each tier, then, considerations of the combatants individual skills become more important than the raw availability of resources. Generalship, power in the Force, dueling skills, unique technologies or strategies, etc. will become far more important considerations than simply spending your opponent into oblivion or throwing waves of assassins at them. It would force more complex scenarios to evolve as each combatant plays to their strengths and tries to neutralize their opponent's advantages, resulting in a more interesting Kaggath.

Edited by Ventessel
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Ben Skywalker and Galen Marek would make a better match up, though. Tahiri is a loser, so that would be boring. If we're counting her as Jacen's apprentice, then just drop both of them, in accordance with the "no outside powers" concept.

 

If we're having Caedus using Ben Skywalker as an apprentice, then in all honesty I'm not sure whose side either apprentice would be on.

 

For starters Ben and Caedus are both Vader's grandkids (he is more apt to figure out Ben is his grandson than Caedus). Second Caedus killed Ben's mother, and took a few potshots at Luke as well.

 

I really don't see Vader letting Galen bump off Ben, I mean look at how Vader kept trying to capture Luke instead of killing him.

 

So the first thing that's likely to happen is Ben would defect to Vader's side or decide to just strike out on his own... In the former Vader would have two "apprentices" competing over the who gets to be apprentice, while Vader goes to bump off Caedus.

 

Sorry but I don't think Jacen could take on Darth Vader, Galen Marek, and Ben Skywalker at the same time. If you're going to give Caedus an apprentice, at least give him one that wouldn't jump ship or try to run him through at the first opportunity...

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Sorry but I don't think Jacen could take on Darth Vader, Galen Marek, and Ben Skywalker at the same time. If you're going to give Caedus an apprentice, at least give him one that wouldn't jump ship or try to run him through at the first opportunity...

 

This is purely to make things interesting. Galen Marek would turn on Vader immediately as well, he hates Vader and the entire plot of the tFU is him seeking revenge on Vader (who, you know, killed his father)

 

Since this is a fantasy comparison, and most Kaggath combatants have no real reason to fight each other anyways (they're mostly from different time periods anyways) it keeps things very close to have a powerful apprentice for each combatant. Ben and Galen are each distinct enough from their masters to complement them in intriguing ways while still being able to compete in the fight without being hopelessly outclassed the way Tahiri would.

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This is purely to make things interesting. Galen Marek would turn on Vader immediately as well, he hates Vader and the entire plot of the tFU is him seeking revenge on Vader (who, you know, killed his father)

 

Since this is a fantasy comparison, and most Kaggath combatants have no real reason to fight each other anyways (they're mostly from different time periods anyways) it keeps things very close to have a powerful apprentice for each combatant. Ben and Galen are each distinct enough from their masters to complement them in intriguing ways while still being able to compete in the fight without being hopelessly outclassed the way Tahiri would.

 

You left out the fact the Kaggath could be a draw where Vader and Jacen kill each other, while the apprentices are both still alive at the end of it.

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You left out the fact the Kaggath could be a draw where Vader and Jacen kill each other, while the apprentices are both still alive at the end of it.

 

Are we discussing the outcome of this suggestion already? Like I said, it's going to be interesting.

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Are we discussing the outcome of this suggestion already? Like I said, it's going to be interesting.

 

Here is the other problem with your scenario. Galen wasn't interested in bumping off Vader until the end of TFU...

 

So Galen isn't likely to be trying to bump off Vader and Caedus gets an apprentice that will jump ship at first opportunity or cut Caedus' head off at first opportunity.

 

The absolute best I can possibly for Caedus is a draw where he and Vader kill each other. If we want to talk about who is the most likely to survive that kind of a Kaggath:

  1. Ben Skywalker - let's face it, Vader wouldn't be interested in killing his Grandson, particularly when the kid would willingly join forces just to take down the guy that murdered his mom.
  2. Darth Vader - If he gets Ben Skywalker to join him, Caedus is looking at an intelligence fiasco of the highest level, considering Ben's memory. While Caedus' is also a grandson, fact of the matter is he bumped off Luke Skywalker's wife (something that has to be thrown into this Kaggath, because it was how Caedus became a Sith Lord), possibly tortured Ben, and took pot-shots at Leia and Jaina. In short, Darth Vader is going into this thing royally pissed off. Part of the darkside is rage right, well Vader will probably have Jacen beat in that department.
  3. Galen Marek - I don't see him betraying Vader. He'd be curious about Ben to an extent, but Ben Skywalker would also be a valuable intelligence resource in taking down Caedus, so I don't see a confrontation there. I'm also not sure how much Vader bought into the rule of two thing.

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Heh, slow down there, Garfield. The point of my earlier comment was that this isn't the thread to be debating that Kaggath matchup, this is the suggestions thread.

 

Standby for word on that matchup, though. I have a few thoughts.

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Just recently come up with some final additions to the upcoming series, they are subject to change so I'd like to here your thoughts/possible replacements of similar size/info.

 

The Exchange: Including all factions hired by G0-T0 e.g. Gand nest, Ubese assassins, and led by Davik Kang

 

Wookiee Army: The Wookiee forces who fought in the Battle of Kashyyykk with the possibility of Delta Squad backing them up or other Clone/Jedi reinforcements.

 

Hutt Cartel: The Hutt forces we encounter on Makeb, led by Toborro the Hutt and including Isotopye-5 droids and the Instellar Regulators. (Anyone got a name for those armoured sail barges?)

 

Umbaran Army: As seen in the Umbarara Clone Wars arc, led by the defecting Pong Krell. A suprisingly large amount of information on these units.

 

So, thoughts?

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Ohnaka Gang? How about the True Mandalorians under the command of Jaster Mereel and Jango Fett?

 

No, no no Aurbere. If you wanna do it right, have Mandalore the Ultimate and Mandalore the Indomitable lead the True Mandalorians as they are the only ones worthy. :p

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