I've been giving this some more thought:

*** The idea has not failed .. I did (for a moment).

*** The correct concept of FSNFU … does NOT mean a force user .. It means NON force user.

As understand it … the force is not understood, used or within everyone to the same degree.

*some are strong with the force: these become Jedi masters / Sith counter parts

*some are strong enough with the force to become Jedi / Sith … but are not masters

*others know the force … and yet choose not to walk the path of a Jedi or Sith

*and yet another group that understand the force … are sensitive to it .. and (probably) couldn't use it (for any one of a number of reasons).

It is this last group that I'm particularly dealing with for this new class.

In much the same fashion that there are tactical geniuses that would make very poor commandos .. and some commandos that would make very poor leaders for an entire Army / Navy .. This is why this new class is neither Jedi (Sith counter part) / nor commando (Empire counter part) . They do well in their own class … but might not make good undercover agents. For MUCH the same reason that a Jedi / Sith might be sensitive enough to the force to sense someone strong in the force (if they were undercover) .. it would also stand to reason that an operative that could be sensitive in using their skills to an optimum level would be the best possible candidate for these divisions.

IMO.. it would NOT be a contradiction of ideals to see this sort of an individual to serve the Empire / Emperor … perhaps even fanatically. The Emperor would see this as an opportunity to use people to accomplish their own personal goals (if anything).

I would suppose it depends upon a degree of philosophical overview. And that is something that could be debated indefinitely.

BTW... on a more personal note. I'm not upset with this being discussed. This sort of thing can be good. If anything I want to thank those who have taken the time to post in here !!

The rest … now would be up to the development team.

I've been giving this some more thought:

*** The idea has not failed .. I did (for a moment).

Considering there's a guild dedicated to Harry Potter, anything's possible. You're bound to find a few role players who'll go with the idea of force-sensitive gun toters, and over the years, I'm sure there have already been role playing groups dedicated to such at various points.

How could any shock trooper in the imperial military not be immediately identified as Force Sensitive and subsequently forced to go to Korriban?

I agree, I don't think force abiltiies/powers should be included on classes shock trooper or SIS agent.

"I think these are the only viable classes to add to the current game. Possibly... probably without force powers. to be introduced to SWTOR at this point as it follows lore and isn't a redundancy with other classes on their respective factions."

I think the Force is ambiguous enough that the force sensitive imp class IS viable and the rest of the Sith and Jedi class stories, years of comics, other games, movies, tv shows, and novels are filled with the same type of exceptions that would allow for it.

As usual the suggestion forum has turned into the limitation creation committee.

'Always with you (people) what can not be done.' - paraphrased Yoda

An enterprising Watcher identifying a force sensitive that can be trained and honed to be a part of the Intelligence Division would prove to be a very valuable asset. Steps could be taken to keep the Sith from finding out...they control the information, dont they?

There...your idea is back on the table.

edit: in fact, i had always played my sniper as a Force Sensitive and eventually converted him to a Knight.

I agree, I don't think force abiltiies/powers should be included on classes shock trooper or SIS agent.

 

"I think these are the only viable classes to add to the current game. Possibly... probably without force powers. to be introduced to SWTOR at this point as it follows lore and isn't a redundancy with other classes on their respective factions."

Earlier in one of the posts I did state that NFU (non force user) would eliminate such things as "force leap" and other related capabilities. I did so intentionally to keep this class separate from the other classes such as (Jedi / Sith).

Force sensitive would only act as a "bonus" ( for lack of a better term) .. in the introduction and execution of unique class skills as we mentioned earlier.

Also: this entire idea is simply a suggestion and a guideline. The development team is more than capable of extrapolating the best qualities that we have mentioned ( hopefully especially the weapons and related items such as stealth mode) would be used. Think of both classes (Republic and Empire ) as being a SWTOR version of a super spy with extremely well honed skills and abilities... that are not incorporating the use of the force.

Also: this entire idea is simply a suggestion and a guideline. The development team is more than capable of extrapolating the best qualities that we have mentioned ( hopefully especially the weapons and related items such as stealth mode) would be used. Think of both classes (Republic and Empire ) as being a SWTOR version of a super spy with extremely well honed skills and abilities... that are not incorporating the use of the force.

I definately like the ideas, would be great to get some feedback from the dev/creative team. Although they don't normally post on this, maybe at one of the future events, or podcasts, someone may have a chance to enquire

Maybe a different AC could be more workable, more so than a different class. Yes, you'll run into the same balancing issues as would adding any other new spec, just that you could fit Force-sensitive black ops into the existing class stories without creating unnecessary redundancies.

A subclass or modification of another class will not work. There really would be too many redundancies …

** The lore for this class is well established and is scattered through out SWTOR ( the SIS is mentioned by name )

** The Empire has a similar office .. and from everything I've researched is actually better funded. I also remembered why the force sensitives were being rounded up by Imperial forces (even on Balmorra) … Who was the emperor at that time? We see his game starting to unfold later on Ziost. So it's no little wonder he was rounding up as many force sensitives as possible...

** This post provided by Stevethecynic some time back does a nice job of sorting this out …

Let's review where we are with this, although this will be my take on that review and I might miss a few points or change a few things. The intent here is to push the discussion back toward being on track.

 

First up, the primary idea is some kind of Force-sensitive non-Force User class that I shall hereafter refer to as an FSNFU. That is, like Raina Temple, the character is capable of wielding things like the Jedi Mind Trick (JMT), but no lightning, no rock-throwing, no balls of Force Energy. If the FSFNU wants to "Open the Blast Doors", he can't do what the Consular does(1), and must revert to slicing the lock, blowing a hole in it, or finding a different route to the other side.

 

However, faced with a Force User Moment in a conversation, the FSNFU gets options, as Temple did, to JMT people. The initial Pubside archetype of who the FSNFU is would be someone *like* Raina Temple, but recruited covertly by the SIS rather than being, in some way, 'on the run' from the Sith like Raina is.

 

I think part of the problem in this thread is that people have been getting hung up on the narrative comparisons with the Imperial Agent. The FSNFU is not a mirror of the current Imperial agent, but a completely new class. One suggestion noted early in the thread is whether it should have a new weapon type (citing as examples the FN F2000 among others). I can see how that could be interesting, although I would have cited the similar FN P90 instead, but more generally a submachine gun. (No, not a Sten!)(2) Perhaps a machine pistol instead of a larger submachine gun (the distinction rates a line from DSJ: "it's fuzzy"...).

 

Anyway... One of the obvious sticking points is how to integrate an Imperial mirror of this class into the existing game lore, especially given the difficulties encountered by Raina Temple because she has some level of Force sensitivity but has deliberately avoided Sith training. I can't emphasise strongly enough that I don't off the top of my head have a good answer for this, except perhaps for appealing to things like the Imperial Science Bureau referenced in Dr Lokin's class-companion story.

 

In any event, I think it would add something to the lore of the game, offering a way to explore the fuzzy area that's hinted at in more than one way(3) between full Force User people (Jedi and Sith, as well as various others like Voss Mystics and the Order of Shasa) and "ordinary" people like the four existing gun classes. We just need to avoid wandering too close to things like the Sixth Line - they are actual Jedi, so full FU types rather than FSNFUs.

 

(1) In The Junction on Taris if memory serves, where the Consular goes to rescue workers who are being poisoned by gas released by someone. The Consular uses the Force to open the door in a dramatic and definitively permanent way.

 

(2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sten The Sten gun (properly just "STEN") was a low-cost and highly unsafe submachine gun chambered initially in 9x19 Parabellum, and used extensively in World War II. Not really a good choice for a "service weapon" for an intelligence agent.

 

(3) The two most obvious examples are Raina Temple and Guss Tuno, but the conversations with Master Oteg in the missions surrounding the Taral V and Maelstrom Prison flashpoints are also interesting.

BW has had 8 years to add another class. If they were going to do it, they would have done it by now.

How about just have a free combat proficiency, one that doesn't make force-wielding classes feel compelled to use (because by rights they should already have the ability) but doesn't upset the applecart for PVP types, either.

For example, a combat proficiency called "Force Sensitive" might be a broad grab-basket of utilities gleaned from things the existing force wielding classes can already do (and I can already hear players say but wait that just dilutes what it means to be one of the existing force wielding classes).

No one alive would be able to craft such a free combat proficiency that wouldn't make one group or another scream bloody murder that it's horribly unbalancing, but an add-on like a proficiency is far more likely than a completely new write for a new class (and its mirror).

BW has had 8 years to add another class. If they were going to do it, they would have done it by now.

How about just have a free combat proficiency, one that doesn't make force-wielding classes feel compelled to use (because by rights they should already have the ability) but doesn't upset the applecart for PVP types, either.

 

For example, a combat proficiency called "Force Sensitive" might be a broad grab-basket of utilities gleaned from things the existing force wielding classes can already do (and I can already hear players say but wait that just dilutes what it means to be one of the existing force wielding classes).

 

No one alive would be able to craft such a free combat proficiency that wouldn't make one group or another scream bloody murder that it's horribly unbalancing, but an add-on like a proficiency is far more likely than a completely new write for a new class (and its mirror).

Maybe... Maybe not !

I think that would be better determined by the development team.

At least now we're back on track ! (and that's a good thing). So for now .. we'll just keep the dream / idea alive. And if we happen to think about anything else to add …

The glass is still half full. So for me : .. Well .. let's just wait and see what happens.

I still think an expansion featuring a new class with a multi media advertising effort tied into a current Star Wars production like season 2 of the Mandalorian is the only way to see a sizable amount of new and returning players.

The new class... yes

Multi media advertising … ummm that would be nice ( but probably pushing our luck) !

Considering there's a guild dedicated to Harry Potter, anything's possible. You're bound to find a few role players who'll go with the idea of force-sensitive gun toters, and over the years, I'm sure there have already been role playing groups dedicated to such at various points.

There is a possibility with this scenario they would not even know they are force sensitive. They just think they have some different abilities but they would not understand it in the beginning especially if they have not really had a reason to deal with a force sensitive like a Jedi or Sith. It could be that they are not fans of them so they keep their distance or they don't trust them so they don't want anything to do with them so they stay as far away from them as they can.

There is a possibility with this scenario they would not even know they are force sensitive. They just think they have some different abilities but they would not understand it in the beginning especially if they have not really had a reason to deal with a force sensitive like a Jedi or Sith. It could be that they are not fans of them so they keep their distance or they don't trust them so they don't want anything to do with them so they stay as far away from them as they can.

Agreed..

Much like a 6th sense … but as SW fans we recognize it as the force. They are not "strong" in the force. In most cases the candidate might not even recognize the "source" as being the force. But that unique sense … gives them a skill set bonus making them an idea candidate for covert / special undercover ops individuals.

IMO... it should also be noted that it is entirely possible that one of these "former" members or candidates could "grow" in the force and be faced with a decision of whether or not to follow / train in their respective philosophies (Jedi / Sith).

The reverse (however) would not be true … a Jedi or Sith would not become a part of this group.

Story wise, seems like an easy enough thing to do...Republic side anyways...as Empire side, isn't it "You're Sith or you're dead."

Agent has a whole companion dedicated to that mentality of the Empire.

I say this, because I can only imagine complaints that someone's favorite side didn't get a new class like the other side. Makes no sense to me, as it's new for everyone, but it's the complaint that would be whined about.

As for the class. Jedi washout. Or just didn't care to be a Jedi after growing up one. So, they go on their own little adventure that doesn't tie to the main storyline, but possibly has tie ins to the other class storylines.

Starts out the storyline "No one knows of you" even ends on Corellia with the whole idea being, "You went unnoticed, while all the others were doing their big display" and then Ilum starts and it's "Well, you didn't go quite as unnoticed as you thought."

Or, the storyline just doesn't have the big grand ending that some of the others have.

Either way, have it end with them going solo.

Perhaps, working in secret for Satele and her ex (forgot his name)...not quite a Jedi, but useful against the Empire.

Weapon for class could be Main Saber/Secondary Blaster or Main Blaster/Secondary Saber. Not drawn out at the same time, so the secondary will just be holstered, while being pulled out for a couple of attacks.

Story wise, seems like an easy enough thing to do...Republic side anyways...as Empire side, isn't it "You're Sith or you're dead."

 

Agent has a whole companion dedicated to that mentality of the Empire.

 

I say this, because I can only imagine complaints that someone's favorite side didn't get a new class like the other side. Makes no sense to me, as it's new for everyone, but it's the complaint that would be whined about.

 

As for the class. Jedi washout. Or just didn't care to be a Jedi after growing up one. So, they go on their own little adventure that doesn't tie to the main storyline, but possibly has tie ins to the other class storylines.

 

Starts out the storyline "No one knows of you" even ends on Corellia with the whole idea being, "You went unnoticed, while all the others were doing their big display" and then Ilum starts and it's "Well, you didn't go quite as unnoticed as you thought."

 

Or, the storyline just doesn't have the big grand ending that some of the others have.

 

Either way, have it end with them going solo.

 

Perhaps, working in secret for Satele and her ex (forgot his name)...not quite a Jedi, but useful against the Empire.

 

Weapon for class could be Main Saber/Secondary Blaster or Main Blaster/Secondary Saber. Not drawn out at the same time, so the secondary will just be holstered, while being pulled out for a couple of attacks.

** I've ran into the idea of "if you're not a sith you're dead" more than once .. even in the Republic side. However, the one thing that has changed in the story (and it's a huge change) is that the emperor at that time was Vitiate .. (or Valkorian ). IMO … that is one thing that with his death that could easily change.

Again: use of the force / traits (some listed below) would not be used since that would be a clear part of another class. (**** see note****)

** force leap … NO

** guarded by the force … NO

** use of light saber as a main … NO

** twin saber throw … N/A (NO)

** force lightening … NO

** lightening strike … NO

** force storm … NO

Some ideas that MIGHT be a substitute or different all together:

** grappling hook ( attaches to weapon similar to SW I : "The Phantom Menace" )

** shields .. electronic ( not sure how the team would prefer to approach this … but I'm sure they are more than up to the task.

** main weapon … please see above: machine pistol blaster of sort. ( several contemporary weapons of today have been listed to simply act as a guideline). This weapon would be unique to this class. There are two things attached to this weapon:

1. character does not need to be anchored or standing still to fire it !!

2. Three settings: single shot , auto / high speed FULL auto ( this last setting sounds more like a phalanx and does a LOT of damage).

** defensive push back .. something like an electronic generated concussion. Again I'm quite certain that the development team can come up with something.

These are just some examples.

I appreciate the input .. but we also have to be careful that we don't just make a hybrid class of something else that's already there.

I think this is a watered down version of Aura Sing or Asajj Ventress or Savage Opress or even pre-trained Pistol toting Luke Skywalker which honestly is much more interesting version of a "force sensitive" class.

I greatly respect the effort in this idea/thread and the way it has been approached but I don't actually like the Archetype proposed.

If they are to add a new class it should be vastly different than anything else in the game IMO. A laser whip force sensitive is interesting. A pistol, toting vibrosword using class with some basic force abilities like force push (the ability many force sensitives use first out of fearful defense in canon) sounds interesting...

Just my opinion..good work on the proposal no doubt.

I think this is a watered down version of Aura Sing or Asajj Ventress or Savage Opress or even pre-trained Pistol toting Luke Skywalker which honestly is much more interesting version of a "force sensitive" class.

 

I greatly respect the effort in this idea/thread and the way it has been approached but I don't actually like the Archetype proposed.

 

If they are to add a new class it should be vastly different than anything else in the game IMO. A laser whip force sensitive is interesting. A pistol, toting vibrosword using class with some basic force abilities like force push (the ability many force sensitives use first out of fearful defense in canon) sounds interesting...

 

Just my opinion..good work on the proposal no doubt.

As always .. let me first thank you for your input. I also appreciate your respect to what has been presented.

That said: let me see if I can address a couple thoughts …

*** Force abilities … The development team would no doubt be cautious not to use too many characteristics that would push the new class too class to anything that already exists.

I do like the idea that you have suggested that it would defensive only … I think somewhere buried in these pages there is a similar suggestion.. that IF any sort of "force based" attribute were utilized that it would be limited strictly to defensive only.

*** Unique style … This is something that has not been tried yet. Speed and agility. Speed in weapons use … agility in defensive posturing. This would also include the necessity to develop a acrobatic maneuver with the character for combat use. The weapon (as mentioned in a couple of places ) would also have to be unique. And (if I'm not mistaken) … somewhere in here there is the mention of needing additional power packs and the ability to use them. By that I mean: as you develop the character you get the use of the gun … and as it gets closer to MAX level .. you pick up the ability to use that weapon at it's maximum skill / ability which is high velocity full auto (really bad news to the recipient I might add).

Good Story to go with this character. Frankly until now this is something that I've not spent too much time on. But IMO … the story helps make the characters fun (or not so much). The Jedi Councilor is one of those that if the story had been better … might have been a lot more fun. I have one character in that group and don't plan on any more. (Frankly I'm not that good playing that class either .. truth be told).

There are just a few items I sincerely hope make it with this new class:

** Character can be fun .. regardless of Republic or Empire not dull and boring just because a player makes LS choices.

** Class is developed where the story flows well with either male or female

** Companions: at some point in time the player can choose male or female (not something that has really been done that much)

** Companions must be fun .. and when the occasion calls for it … caring. OK … for the Sith a back stabbing cut throat ????? I'm not sure how that would work !!

I'm hoping that the team can just go nuts with this … (in a good sense of the word) ..

IN the end … the development team will be what really makes this work. And … if I didn't think they had the skill and ability to do so … I wouldn't still be working on this one year later !

BTW.. again. I really appreciate your thoughts and feed back.

I think this is a watered down version of Aura Sing or Asajj Ventress or Savage Opress or even pre-trained Pistol toting Luke Skywalker which honestly is much more interesting version of a "force sensitive" class.

First it sounds like you dint even read past the headline cuz thats not whats detailed here at all. Second, why does it have to be a watered down version? Those characters are all awesome and some sort of half trained Light/Dark Disciple type outside of normal Jedi/Sith relations would make an equally awesome set of new classes, but is not at all what has been discussed in this thread. (Honestly Im on the theres already too many force using classes train but I could dig it.)

Also, some of the nay saying on this suggestion is seriously sad. How unimaginative do you have to be to not be able to come up with a workable origin for anything in the Star Wars universe?

All force sensitives born in imp space go to Sith training? OK great, why does this person have to be born and raised there? Could be a defector from rep or Hutt space or an immigrant from the outer rim or wild space or anywhere!

Crazy right? Its like theres a whole fictitious universe to draw from and you dont have to limit yourself at all.

First it sounds like you dint even read past the headline cuz thats not whats detailed here at all. Second, why does it have to be a watered down version? Those characters are all awesome and some sort of half trained Light/Dark Disciple type outside of normal Jedi/Sith relations would make an equally awesome set of new classes, but is not at all what has been discussed in this thread. (Honestly Im on the theres already too many force using classes train but I could dig it.)

 

Also, some of the nay saying on this suggestion is seriously sad. How unimaginative do you have to be to not be able to come up with a workable origin for anything in the Star Wars universe?

 

All force sensitives born in imp space go to Sith training? OK great, why does this person have to be born and raised there? Could be a defector from rep or Hutt space or an immigrant from the outer rim or wild space or anywhere!

 

Crazy right? Its like theres a whole fictitious universe to draw from and you dont have to limit yourself at all.

I'm not against a force sensitive class and I think this post is really well done as I said before. I don't like the proposed Archetype I prefer the idea of a hybrid type class that used blasters in combination with Force abilities and a new weapon style not previously used in SWToR which is why I mentioned the laser whip.

I just don't like the concept of a Force super soldier vs a more canon based Force Sensitive force wielder. When I say "watered Down" It is reference to the "enhanced reflexes" vs not using actual force abilities like push or force run not the entirety of the idea.

Just my thoughts I didn't realize only 100% positive feedback was allowed.

I'm not against a force sensitive class and I think this post is really well done as I said before. I don't like the proposed Archetype I prefer the idea of a hybrid type class that used blasters in combination with Force abilities and a new weapon style not previously used in SWToR which is why I mentioned the laser whip.

 

I just don't like the concept of a Force super soldier vs a more canon based Force Sensitive force wielder. When I say "watered Down" It is reference to the "enhanced reflexes" vs not using actual force abilities like push or force run not the entirety of the idea.

 

Just my thoughts I didn't realize only 100% positive feedback was allowed.

Ah .. I see the difference.

** Yes .. your feed back is definitely allowed .. and appreciated.

** We have to avoid the a hybrid type … other wise what we have is a subclass of either a Jedi or Trooper / and their counter parts in the Empire.

** Also: the SIS and the Empires version are both well established in the SWTOR lore. While both have representatives in the stories … neither are used as a class.

** IF we were to use either one as a class it would stand to reason that if we wanted the best possible scenario for this class it would be to make them FSNFU. That is of course: Force Sensitive Non Force User. This differentiates them from both Force Users ( namely Jedi and Sith) and or even special forces groups such as "Havoc Squad".

**Force sensitive does (but not strong in the force or a JK or Sith ) … does tend to separate them. BUT when a degree of sensitivity is applied it does generate a character that has a skill class that can and will make them more suited for the assignment than even a trooper class (for example). It is that "separation" that makes them stronger … not weaker. Only certain sith blinded with absolutes would tend to see such a person as incompetent or weak. The emperor .. and his collogues would see them as an opportunity to penetrate Alliance and Republic security and organizations to inflict maximum harm when the time calls for it.

** Not a sniper. No need to confuse them with that class either.

In deed .. a unique group of people.. for a unique task.

I'm not against a force sensitive class and I think this post is really well done as I said before. I don't like the proposed Archetype I prefer the idea of a hybrid type class that used blasters in combination with Force abilities and a new weapon style not previously used in SWToR which is why I mentioned the laser whip.

 

I just don't like the concept of a Force super soldier vs a more canon based Force Sensitive force wielder. When I say "watered Down" It is reference to the "enhanced reflexes" vs not using actual force abilities like push or force run not the entirety of the idea.

 

Just my thoughts I didn't realize only 100% positive feedback was allowed.

You think by asking you a couple questions about your post I somehow tried to limit yours or anyones feedback?

Weird

I agree anyway, some sort of republic super agent/ imperial super soldier and force sensitive/using non jedi/sith I think would both make great additions but should definitely be separate. I wouldnt mind this idea either.

You think by asking you a couple questions about your post I somehow tried to limit yours or anyones feedback?

 

Weird

 

I agree anyway, some sort of republic super agent/ imperial super soldier and force sensitive/using non jedi/sith I think would both make great additions but should definitely be separate. I wouldnt mind this idea either.

IMO … Any time we are dealing with the Star Wars saga … there will always seem to be some element of the force.

If the guidelines we have suggested class were to be used it would have to be in such a way that the new character were not taken to be simply a super trooper … or some other sub class special project.

Also: I just wondering as to how closely "tied" to each respective galactic power would they be? By that I mean:

*** Not ran by another General Garza type (Republic side). Totally demanding you "blindly follow orders". While that philosophy WOULD definitely work best for the Empire lore side … IMO … for the Republic someone like Theron would be totally the right person to run the Republic SIS Secret Service division.

*** Has secret ties to both the "underworld" (smugglers) as well as other special operatives (such as former Havoc Squad) and a host of "off the books" resources when needed. IMO …. this works well for both the Empire (especially when "dark ops" are needed) as well as for the Republic (when stealth tactics) are needed.

Just a couple more thoughts.

Yeah .. I know. I'm still dreaming crazy stuff.

But that's OK … everybody already knows that by now !!

Edited 03-18-2022

I revisited this one last time just for fun. So much has changed in the last 21 months. So disappointing to see the game erode and gradually break apart. And with that comes the inevitable conclusion that not only the idea of another class is dead ... but with it so much more.

** All interactive companions are pretty much gone now (and with that the possibility of a new companion that would have been wonderfully matched with this new class character.)

** Combat styles that would have been so unique to really set this character into motion. This character would have worked really well with the Jedi (or Sith from the Empire).

** The much-needed new content that would have given new life to even the old stories.

So many possibilities. All gone now!

.... maybe one day!!