Nope, they're equal. Your math is wrong. (Your error lies in using "GCDs" instead of "force required" as the basis.)

 

Let me put it this way: (both versions still have Torment)

* Induction build regens 8 force a second, and requires 65.5 force for the combo. Thats approx. 8.2 (65.5/8) seconds of regeneration to aquire needed amount og force.

* Blood of Sith regens 10.4 force a second, and requires 85 force for the combo. Thats approx 8.2 (85/10.4) seconds of regeneration to aquire needed amount of force.

 

Maybe putting it this way made it clearer? :-)

The calculation you're using is really biased since it's assuming that we're starting at 0 force.

Obviously the more time that is elapsed without doing a thrash/thrash/shock combo, the better Blood of the Sith looks. So in your example when you start at 0 force you have to wait over 8 seconds before you can get a single use out of Induction, while Blood of the Sith has been active for the entire 8 seconds.

Since we start at full force, it's more accurate to look purely at the force regen/savings of the 2 talents based on how often you'll be using the combo, as i did in my example. It's still a bit biased in my example as well since it doesn't account for you ever running out of force, but you really don't run out of force much with that 12/13/16 build and it's still a more accurate representation of the force savings you get from Induction.

To put it simply, the more often you thrash/thrash/shock, the more force you gain/save from Induction. Since it only takes 4.5 seconds to execute a thrash thrash shock combo, you're essentially gaining 19.5 force every 4.5 seconds for an average of of 4.33333 force per second.

Hope that helped.

I tried almost every combination including op's build. I spent over 700k credits on respec. I tested them vs geared and low geared players. Hybrid specs are useless. They dont have high damage , high survivalbility.They lack integrity.

Assasin has rough distinction between its specs. You can be effective flag carrier with nice aoes , snares , utilities like force grip , out of stealth spike and selfheal as deception. You can be a so called heavily cooldown dependent glass canon which bursts up to 6k each with 2 insta cast melee range spells which your duty will be putting pressure on healers , killing key people fast or you can be something like warlock with 3 dots and small melee bursts.

Dont copare assasin with operatives.Ops are cakes for assasin.Only thing op can do is slack at one point . They have no mobility. If you cant manage to win them you need to practice. Only anti class for assasin is jaggernauts and a little bit BH ( powertech specially ) .

Offensive darkness

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200McrskbskrsZZf0cM.1

Build harness stacks with shock. At 3 stack force lighting to get heal.Use trash for more shocks.Kite groups or melee with wither.Keep dark ward on cd. Good for flag carrier and as solo spec.sux in solo pvp.

Defensive darkness

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200bIrokrskfoZZfbc.1

Best spec as a flag carrier.Sux in solo pvp

Burst deception

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200MZhRrRkhMrtzZf0c.1

Best spec for nuking.Heavily cooldown based , glass canon. Spike , 2x volcanic , blackout , shock , spam maul and nuke with your discharge if target dares to survive finish with assasination.You can kill anything exept jaggernauts in 1v1.

Melee Warlock

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200McMcZZfrfMbrzbfz.1

Good in 1v1 , you can kill anything ez exept healers.You faceroll ops.You have 3 cc.You need to be keeping dots up ( crushing whenever it has insta cast proc ) , snare target with creeping if he/she tries to escape or kite melee and zerg with trash saber strike.

Just because you've some points in Darkness does not make you immune to kiting.

Thrash X 2 + Shock based builds get kited very easily. Healers, your primary targets, will pretty much always attempt to kite you since that's their best defense. To assume you can even get Thrashes in half of the time against anyone that's not a melee is simply unrealistic in PvP.

Melee Warlock

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200McMcZZfrfMbrzbfz.1

Good in 1v1 , you can kill anything ez exept healers.You faceroll ops.You have 3 cc.You need to be keeping dots up ( crushing whenever it has insta cast proc ) , snare target with creeping if he/she tries to escape or kite melee and zerg with trash saber strike.

This build is all wrong. Of all things you didn't take Death Field? Don't you realize how important that ability is along with Deathmark and Calculating mind? Death Field on it's own can hit 3 targets for a good chunk of damage, plus it also sets them up to take more damage from your DoTs and gives you back Force. If you don't take those talents then you are losing out on a lot of damage and you will be force-starved.

Use this build instead:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200McMZ0MZcrfRrMkrcz.1

Better damage, much more force regen and another instant-cast CC.

Tested out Khaz's build. Worked amazing. My overall damage increased by about 300% and I only had about 0-2 deaths each WZ. Forgot to screenshot though.

Had the survivability to actually kill, but my burst was reduced by about 50%. Shock crits were hitting for only about 1500, but the frequency of shock usage was non-stop.

Just because you've some points in Darkness does not make you immune to kiting.

 

Thrash X 2 + Shock based builds get kited very easily. Healers, your primary targets, will pretty much always attempt to kite you since that's their best defense. To assume you can even get Thrashes in half of the time against anyone that's not a melee is simply unrealistic in PvP.

force slow works wonders.

Just because you've some points in Darkness does not make you immune to kiting.

 

Thrash X 2 + Shock based builds get kited very easily. Healers, your primary targets, will pretty much always attempt to kite you since that's their best defense. To assume you can even get Thrashes in half of the time against anyone that's not a melee is simply unrealistic in PvP.

You're definitely doing something wrong. I've never been effectively kited in any darkness build i've tried.

With the builds that i've used i have a ton of tools to keep me from getting kited:

+15% movespeed from Obfuscation.

Force Speed (that removes roots/snares on a 20s cd)

Force Slow (with 15m range from 2pc champion bonus)

30m range stun

10m range attacks

Force pull (i'm specced out of this atm but most darkness builds have it)

With all of these tools at your disposal it's impossible to get kited 1v1. You probably just need to practice staying on top of your targets, and try to anticipate your opponents movements and react to them quicker.

Tested out Khaz's build. Worked amazing. My overall damage increased by about 300% and I only had about 0-2 deaths each WZ. Forgot to screenshot though.

 

Had the survivability to actually kill, but my burst was reduced by about 50%. Shock crits were hitting for only about 1500, but the frequency of shock usage was non-stop.

Glad to hear it.

Yeah your shocks don't hit as hard but you can do high dps consistently and the maul procs help a lot with your burst damage.

If you aren't already using a focus item you should try to get a good epic one. It'll boost your shock damage by a nice amount and you won't notice any drop in survivability.

Glad to hear it.

 

Yeah your shocks don't hit as hard but you can do high dps consistently and the maul procs help a lot with your burst damage.

 

If you aren't already using a focus item you should try to get a good epic one. It'll boost your shock damage by a nice amount and you won't notice any drop in survivability.

I am using the Champion Stalkers offhand focus. I tested out the shield and didn't really notice a big difference as you said, besides the drop in damage. The only thing about this spec is that it's purely PvP focused and it's hard to fill the role of a Tank or DPS.

Um, kiting doesn't work as simple as you think in PvP, unless you never fought against a Merc/Sor that knew how to kite.

Force Slow is unreliable unless you talented into it, which implies you've at least 16 in Deception. This may limit your options elsewhere, and Harnessed Darkness is now out of reach.

Force Pull gives the enemy 1/2 of a resolve bar. It should not be used unless you're sure it lead to their immediate death.

You don't ever use Force Speed until they use their KB because otherwise if you're against a Sorc speced with KB + root your only way out of that is Force Pulll (see above). Merc have KB that knocks you back extra far, often preventing application of Force Slow unless you used it immediately, but you need improved Force Slow to ensure it lasts long enough if you apply Force Slow at engagement.

10m range attacks don't matter to Induction based builds because if you're using Shock without Induction stacks then you're saying you didn't need Induction to begin with. I mean sure you can do it, and it's a perfectly fine solution, but being able to do it means you weren't dependent on Induction to begin with.

Something as simple as the blind from Sorc bubble pop is more than enough for them to put 4m of distance between you even if they're snared, which really only happens if you've Wither. If you've Wither, you don't have Induction so Thrash based builds are meaningless.

The only way melee can always melee is if someone on your team has Wither. I suppose you can just hope someone on your side has that ability, but that's hardly a reliable fighting style. Ironically, the guy with Wither has very little reason to melee since he cannot have Induction, and Energize procs are not important enough to delay HD powered FLs.

Force Slow is good enough. I haven't had any issues now that Force Speed breaks snares. It's also fairly easy to keep someone within attacking distance.

The Stalker set also increased Force Slow by 5 meters so that helps a whole lot too.

Force Slow is good enough. I haven't had any issues now that Force Speed breaks snares. It's also fairly easy to keep someone within attacking distance.

 

The Stalker set also increased Force Slow by 5 meters so that helps a whole lot too.

Do you have Force Slow talented? If not, by defintion they're as likely to be not snared as snared (6s duration 12s CD).

If it's talented, you cannot have Harnessed Darkness, which means you don't have a credible 10m counter. Now that's fine since Force Speed counters KB combos, but you have no defense against a short duration mez. The most commn type of short duration mez I see is the bubble blind or the sentinel ae mez. This will allow even a snared opponent to put 4m between you. You'll need some time to close the gap again and your 10m attacks needs Induction to build effectiveness, so you're in a rough spot for a whlie. You can't use Force Speed because the enemy hasn't used their KB yet. Unless you're going to commit your Force Pull to this case, you'll have several seconds where you cannot effectively close the gap after a short duration mez.

Granted this is mostly only a matchup problem against a Sorcerer, except they're one of the most common classes around. No they won't always spec into bubble blind, but it seems to be rather common to see bubble blind.

Um, kiting doesn't work as simple as you think in PvP, unless you never fought against a Merc/Sor that knew how to kite.

 

Force Slow is unreliable unless you talented into it, which implies you've at least 16 in Deception. This may limit your options elsewhere, and Harnessed Darkness is now out of reach.

 

Force Pull gives the enemy 1/2 of a resolve bar. It should not be used unless you're sure it lead to their immediate death.

 

You don't ever use Force Speed until they use their KB because otherwise if you're against a Sorc speced with KB + root your only way out of that is Force Pulll (see above). Merc have KB that knocks you back extra far, often preventing application of Force Slow unless you used it immediately, but you need improved Force Slow to ensure it lasts long enough if you apply Force Slow at engagement.

 

10m range attacks don't matter to Induction based builds because if you're using Shock without Induction stacks then you're saying you didn't need Induction to begin with. I mean sure you can do it, and it's a perfectly fine solution, but being able to do it means you weren't dependent on Induction to begin with.

 

 

Something as simple as the blind from Sorc bubble pop is more than enough for them to put 4m of distance between you even if they're snared, which really only happens if you've Wither. If you've Wither, you don't have Induction so Thrash based builds are meaningless.

 

The only way melee can always melee is if someone on your team has Wither. I suppose you can just hope someone on your side has that ability, but that's hardly a reliable fighting style. Ironically, the guy with Wither has very little reason to melee since he cannot have Induction, and Energize procs are not important enough to delay HD powered FLs.

Here's how fights against sages/sorcs usually go for me:

I start in melee from popping out of stealth.

The sorc aoe knockbacks which roots so i use force speed to get back into melee range.

The sorc may try to force speed away but i pull him back.

If the sorc bubbles, slow him to anticipate the blind proc (although I haven't fought many that have that talent for some reason) so that he only gets a few feet of distance.

Then interrupt his force lightning/pebbles that he casts to try to slow you while you close the short distance and then from there he's pretty much screwed.

Interrupts own sorcs/sages and my interrupt is on a 10s cd thanks to the avoidance talent in Deception. Add onto that spike (which gives them only 1 bar of resolve) and a sorc will have a hard time doing much damage to me.

Here's how fights against sages/sorcs usually go for me:

 

I start in melee from popping out of stealth.

The sorc aoe knockbacks which roots so i use force speed to get back into melee range.

The sorc may try to force speed away but i pull him back.

If the sorc bubbles, slow him to anticipate the blind proc (although I haven't fought many that have that talent for some reason) so that he only gets a few feet of distance.

Then interrupt his force lightning/pebbles that he casts to try to slow you while you close the short distance and then from there he's pretty much screwed.

 

Interrupts own sorcs/sages and my interrupt is on a 10s cd thanks to the avoidance talent in Deception. Add onto that spike (which gives them only 1 bar of resolve) and a sorc will have a hard time doing much damage to me.

try pre popping resilience before he does the knock back. forces them to use force speed, just hit them with the 4sec cc and that is wasted too.

If the Sorc doesn't have bubble blind then he pretty much can't kite you at all as long as you've Force Speed breaking roots. I don't know enough about Sorcs to know whether they should have the talent (it's 17 points into lightning tree). Force Slow is usually enough, but you might get snared by who knows what too. The bubble blinds you for 3 seconds, so it's reasonable to say this can require you 3 seconds to re-establish melee position, and a lot can happen in 3 seconds in PvP.

I don't like to use Force Pull unless using it leads to their immediate demise since otherwise you have at most 1 CC left against that guy (he has half a bar of resolve now), and most likely 0 because they can just CC break out of any CC you use next without fear.

try pre popping resilience before he does the knock back. forces them to use force speed, just hit them with the 4sec cc and that is wasted too.

It's hard to anticipate when they might use their knockback though. I don't do much dueling and most sorcs i fight don't seem very good so they don't usually do what you'd expect them to do lol. They often seem to use it after you interrupt their first force lightning though so i may try popping it then.

Good call on stunning them when they force speed. It'd probably be better to save force pull for an emergency; although it's pretty satisfying seeing a sorc force speed far away and then pulling them right back to you haha.

If the Sorc doesn't have bubble blind then he pretty much can't kite you at all as long as you've Force Speed breaking roots. I don't know enough about Sorcs to know whether they should have the talent (it's 17 points into lightning tree). Force Slow is usually enough, but you might get snared by who knows what too. The bubble blinds you for 3 seconds, so it's reasonable to say this can require you 3 seconds to re-establish melee position, and a lot can happen in 3 seconds in PvP.

 

I don't like to use Force Pull unless using it leads to their immediate demise since otherwise you have at most 1 CC left against that guy (he has half a bar of resolve now), and most likely 0 because they can just CC break out of any CC you use next without fear.

I have +15% movespeed from obfuscation so i can easily afford to save my slow for when they bubble to anticipate the blind effect.

Also Padgemoe brought up a good point that you can save force pull and just use your stun when they force speed away. They're going to CC break your stun anyways but the stun should be enough to keep them from getting any real distance on you with force speed.

The bubble blind situation is one of those 'what if' situations. It can go your way and it can go their way and short of being able to fight back effectively at 10m you cannot say for sure you can always counter it. I mean you can say what if they blind and then Force Slow you and then this and that too.

AE blind/stun effects seems to be pretty prevalent, as I see it from Powertech, Juggernaut, and some sort of Imperial Agent (possibly both ACs). That's why I prefer to just get Wither, because if they got Wither on, they're never getting away from you without some help from elevation.

The bubble blind situation is one of those 'what if' situations. It can go your way and it can go their way and short of being able to fight back effectively at 10m you cannot say for sure you can always counter it. I mean you can say what if they blind and then Force Slow you and then this and that too.

 

AE blind/stun effects seems to be pretty prevalent, as I see it from Powertech, Juggernaut, and some sort of Imperial Agent (possibly both ACs). That's why I prefer to just get Wither, because if they got Wither on, they're never getting away from you without some help from elevation.

Realistically, most sorcs will have dots on you at all times since their build revolves around them for procs, healing, and damage so their blind will usually break pretty quickly anyways. That's probably why i never notice sorcs with the blind bubble talent, because it's always broken by their own dots in any 1v1 situation.

It's not worth taking Wither for a 30% slow considering the stuff you have to give up. As Wither spec sorcs probably won't even bother kiting you since you probably won't do enough damage to kill them face to face anyways.

This build is all wrong. Of all things you didn't take Death Field? Don't you realize how important that ability is along with Deathmark and Calculating mind? Death Field on it's own can hit 3 targets for a good chunk of damage, plus it also sets them up to take more damage from your DoTs and gives you back Force. If you don't take those talents then you are losing out on a lot of damage and you will be force-starved.

 

Use this build instead:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200McMZ0MZcrfRrMkrcz.1

 

Better damage, much more force regen and another instant-cast CC.

i didnt intended to deal a lot of damage and nuke fast with that build.Dots are main focus here , dont expect to deal as burst as you do with deception.

I'm not sure if this spec was thrown out there yet, but with an 18/13/10 build, I'd be going for a thrash/shock combo, while still retaining some survivability from the darkness tree.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200rsrok0cZhGbMoZf0cM.1

With this spec, I would plan on having a shield equipped. Stat wise, I would be leaning towards surge/power since energize will already give me 50% guranteed shock crits.

What are your thoughts?

I'm not sure if this spec was thrown out there yet, but with an 18/13/10 build, I'd be going for a thrash/shock combo, while still retaining some survivability from the darkness tree.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200rsrok0cZhGbMoZf0cM.1

 

With this spec, I would plan on having a shield equipped. Stat wise, I would be leaning towards surge/power since energize will already give me 50% guranteed shock crits.

 

What are your thoughts?

I really don't think it's worth giving up +50% thrash crit damage, death field, and raze just for 30% more force regen. You really don't need the extra regen with induction and the shock/thrash cost reduction from Torment.

Try out this build: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200rsMozZhGbMzZf0cRr0z.1

Also i'd recommend using a focus offhand for pvp since shields are so weak in pvp, and the extra +force power on the focus item really boosts the damage that your force attacks deal, especially shock.

Realistically, most sorcs will have dots on you at all times since their build revolves around them for procs, healing, and damage so their blind will usually break pretty quickly anyways. That's probably why i never notice sorcs with the blind bubble talent, because it's always broken by their own dots in any 1v1 situation.

 

It's not worth taking Wither for a 30% slow considering the stuff you have to give up. As Wither spec sorcs probably won't even bother kiting you since you probably won't do enough damage to kill them face to face anyways.

Huh? 31/0/10 is very strong in DPS. Wither does almost as much damage as Thrash does on even one person and applies two very useful side effects for only +5 Force. Shock + Force Lightning is an extremely hard hitting direct attack. You're right they won't be kiting a Wither spec Assasssin since you just trade hits with them. The only class that can stand toe to toe to a 31/0/10 is a Commando under their bubble and those guys can stand toe to toe with just about any class in the game.

Haven't tried this spec yet due to my insanely high respec costs (99880 creds) but if anyone wants to try it out or discuss, feel free and post up your findings. Currently I'm using 2/31/8 but the lack of survivability in 50 WZs are really hurting. Full Champion/Valor 48.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200McMskZhRrMZf0cRr0z.1

 

The spec is based on using Thrash to get the Energized procs which will guarantee a 100% crit. The crit will cause Exploitive Strikes to proc and increase your chances of getting a Raze proc.

 

Feedback and suggestions are welcome.

 

Edit: Oh, you will be using Dark Charge and a shield offhand with DPS Gear.

This is similar to the spec i use, except i did not take Raze and Death field (made build for specific purpose in team pvp, and watering him down by Death Field was pointless, since it should have excelled in concrete purpose in price of utility and varsatality).

I also play mainly in Dark Charge, so took upgrades for it, while ignoring Discharge buffs completely - i dont use it, AT ALL.

The build works just fine for me, really easy to play and great in team. The only downside being low utility (no out of stealth spike, no low slash, no pull). But for its purpose its great.

Huh? 31/0/10 is very strong in DPS. Wither does almost as much damage as Thrash does on even one person and applies two very useful side effects for only +5 Force. Shock + Force Lightning is an extremely hard hitting direct attack. You're right they won't be kiting a Wither spec Assasssin since you just trade hits with them. The only class that can stand toe to toe to a 31/0/10 is a Commando under their bubble and those guys can stand toe to toe with just about any class in the game.

Wither's a good skill but I don't think it's worth giving up Death Field, Raze, Haunted Dreams (insta ww talent) and +50% thrash crit damage for imo.