Hey,

I would like to propose you implement an anti-cheating system to help out in warzones. When you have someone who is cheating (moving at insane speeds for the entire match, attacking you from across the map, etc) It really causes frustration and a ill feeling toward the game.

I understand developers will die a horrible agonizing death if they had to investigate every claim, because a lot of times, it simply isn't cheating but just a lack of understanding on what other classes are able to do versus the persons perception.

So why don't you implement a Cheat column like you do the MVP column? let people earn cheating points and when they reach a thresh-hold that you feel deserves investigation you can look into it. That way it's player driven, but it also weeds out the Rage portion of the accusations.

I would think something like this could help ban the folks that ruin the game and keep your devs, customer service, etc guys doing better things than tracking down false leads.

Just a suggestion. If you don't do something like this, then please just do *something* it's annoying as hell and very irritating.

Better yet, implement a system that allows us to contact GM's directly so they can see the issues when they occur instead of continuing the postponement of them.

The problem with that is the million user player base. It's just not realistic that they can hire enough people for this duty so that when you need to report it they can get there in time to observe the behavior.

You also have people who will report because the "suspect" cheating, or because they are just so pissed that they want someone to listen. A points system like this would allow them to set a threshold so that only offenders that trigger an alarm will have to be investigated.

Hey,

 

I would like to propose you implement an anti-cheating system to help out in warzones. When you have someone who is cheating (moving at insane speeds for the entire match, attacking you from across the map, etc) It really causes frustration and a ill feeling toward the game.

 

I understand developers will die a horrible agonizing death if they had to investigate every claim, because a lot of times, it simply isn't cheating but just a lack of understanding on what other classes are able to do versus the persons perception.

 

So why don't you implement a Cheat column like you do the MVP column? let people earn cheating points and when they reach a thresh-hold that you feel deserves investigation you can look into it. That way it's player driven, but it also weeds out the Rage portion of the accusations.

 

I would think something like this could help ban the folks that ruin the game and keep your devs, customer service, etc guys doing better things than tracking down false leads.

 

 

Just a suggestion. If you don't do something like this, then please just do *something* it's annoying as hell and very irritating.

actually that would kill more dev times then just fixing the cheats, just deciding what is acceptable times would take a huge amount of time.

actually that would kill more dev times then just fixing the cheats, just deciding what is acceptable times would take a huge amount of time.

Doubtful. All they have to do is implement it for a week and look at their totals at the end of the week. There will be some background noise and then there will be spikes. The spikes are interesting, the background noise is not.

Set an initial threshold for the spike to reach, and then raise or lower it as the months go on. That isn't a lot of number crunching or work that isn't mainly computer driven by a reporting system. Once the system is built, it just kicks out the offenders accounts to whichever group needs to see it allowing them to target their investigations more accurately.

Hey,

 

I would like to propose you implement an anti-cheating system to help out in warzones. When you have someone who is cheating (moving at insane speeds for the entire match, attacking you from across the map, etc) It really causes frustration and a ill feeling toward the game.

 

I understand developers will die a horrible agonizing death if they had to investigate every claim, because a lot of times, it simply isn't cheating but just a lack of understanding on what other classes are able to do versus the persons perception.

 

So why don't you implement a Cheat column like you do the MVP column? let people earn cheating points and when they reach a thresh-hold that you feel deserves investigation you can look into it. That way it's player driven, but it also weeds out the Rage portion of the accusations.

 

I would think something like this could help ban the folks that ruin the game and keep your devs, customer service, etc guys doing better things than tracking down false leads.

 

 

Just a suggestion. If you don't do something like this, then please just do *something* it's annoying as hell and very irritating.

You do know other people grief other people right?

If someone runs a premade and they don't like a person on the team or the person has mouthed off but played a perfectly legit game then the entire premade could just voted them a cheater.

Leaving the deciding factor in players hands would only hurt the BW team because you would have a ton of tickets proclaiming innocents and they would have to investigate each one.

You do know other people grief other people right?

 

If someone runs a premade and they don't like a person on the team or the person has mouthed off but played a perfectly legit game then the entire premade could just voted them a cheater.

 

Leaving the deciding factor in players hands would only hurt the BW team because you would have a ton of tickets proclaiming innocents and they would have to investigate each one.

A points system like this has many possibilities that can be programmed in. The simplest is just a tally with a threshold. That alone eliminates the random griefer and rager that does things out of malice or spite. It would take a concerted effort, of constant matchups and constant reporting every time to trigger a false spike.

This type of false spike would have a signature however, it would be coming from the same people over and over again. This is another from of threshold. A program can easily look for not only the number of votes a person got for cheating, but also from how many unique sources it came from. If a small number of people are reporting over and over again to grief, it can be ignored, investigated...whatever the devs want to do about it, but it's not a big deal for a program to handle.

The problem with that is the million user player base. It's just not realistic that they can hire enough people for this duty so that when you need to report it they can get there in time to observe the behavior.

 

You also have people who will report because the "suspect" cheating, or because they are just so pissed that they want someone to listen. A points system like this would allow them to set a threshold so that only offenders that trigger an alarm will have to be investigated.

If the report that gets the immediate response from a GM is related to x times a specific player is reported, then yes it is feasible. This will indeed give those non-cheaters reason to actually report those that they "suspect" or know are using methods that are indeed against the EULA/TOS. From there, after x number of reports on against the same user account, the GM can pull the logs to see the activity as well as monitor them live in game.

Things like this are done in other mmo's that have much smaller budgets and staff. No reason this can not be done here.

The cheaters need to be given a vacation and stripped of anything they gain during those matches they cheat in.

A points system like this has many possibilities that can be programmed in. The simplest is just a tally with a threshold. That alone eliminates the random griefer and rager that does things out of malice or spite. It would take a concerted effort, of constant matchups and constant reporting every time to trigger a false spike.

 

This type of false spike would have a signature however, it would be coming from the same people over and over again. This is another from of threshold. A program can easily look for not only the number of votes a person got for cheating, but also from how many unique sources it came from. If a small number of people are reporting over and over again to grief, it can be ignored, investigated...whatever the devs want to do about it, but it's not a big deal for a program to handle.

You are talking about a lot of "if"'s and relying on players not being jerks.

Also like I said someone could not be liked on their server and with no cross server WZ's they could easily be voted a cheater by a bunch of trolls and get falsely banned.

Leaving server administration to the masses is just a bad idea.

You are talking about a lot of "if"'s and relying on players not being jerks.

 

Also like I said someone could not be liked on their server and with no cross server WZ's they could easily be voted a cheater by a bunch of trolls and get falsely banned.

 

Leaving server administration to the masses is just a bad idea.

Actually, you are providing the "If's". I'm simply saying that the cumulative data will reveal spikes and that those spikes can be weeded out via setting multiple thresholds.

This is not anything new, it's simply using some very basic tools to make life easier for everyone. If 20k or so people on your server don't like you in pvp enough to report you for cheating, then that would be a pretty big anomaly. I would also venture that it would be exceedingly rare and more of a "fear" tactic argument than based out of anything real.

that wont work, cause you will have people voting cheaters, simply because they beat them.

and it will deffinately happen like that, i can already see kids spamming ops chat to vote for a certain person, simply because theyre better than them

False reports wouldn't be a problem since the people investigating them wouldn't auto ban the people. They would simply put them on the top of the investigation list and make their own decision.

They might be able to limit how many people you can report per day also which would limit the douches false reports.

But I doubt they will implement this since they have bigger fish to fry.

Anything driven by players, can and will be abused... how do people not understand this?

It's data mining for crying out loud. To abuse it would require something along the lines of a sustained conspiracy. If every time you played a game, you reported everyone on the opposing side and your side for cheating. and you did that every time you played then it would mean two things.

The first as far as the system goes, it would mean absolutely nothing unless you had a large number of other people doing it with you.

The second thing it would mean is that you yourself could fit an entirely different "griefer" threshold as you are obviously abusing the system.

Please note that I am using "you" in an abstract term and not implying that you would be someone who would grief.

Yes, there will be people who will always try to abuse a system. But that is not limited to ones that incorporate players. In fact, I would venture it is harder abuse this type of system than it would be to hack the game and control mvp or "cheat" votes. But in that case BW has a bigger problem than an anti-cheat system failing.

Actually, you are providing the "If's". I'm simply saying that the cumulative data will reveal spikes and that those spikes can be weeded out via setting multiple thresholds.

 

This is not anything new, it's simply using some very basic tools to make life easier for everyone. If 20k or so people on your server don't like you in pvp enough to report you for cheating, then that would be a pretty big anomaly. I would also venture that it would be exceedingly rare and more of a "fear" tactic argument than based out of anything real.

Again, leaving server administration to the masses is never a good idea. This is just a very small example but when I played WoW (I know right *** am I doing talking about WoW) in BG's they had the report a player afk option.

Even though someone would be playing if they had mouthed off or just acted kind of like a jerk or just plain didn't get along with some people in the group. If they player started to guard a node and no one would be around people would spam the afk report trying to get them booted.

Now your case would be an extreme, make enough enemies and you get banned? or have the threshold so darn high it wouldn't even matter.

I don't even think I have come across 20k unique players in pvp since I started playing.

Also I know this sounds dumb but a lot of people are dumb. In huttball it straight says "Cheating is encouraged" by the announcer. Now to a normal person I know that doesn't mean to go download hacks...to the average stupid person that could mean a thumbs up to speed hack and to me at least that's where I see a majority of the cheaters.

My point is there should never be an automatic ban system that is player controlled and in all honesty I would cancel my sub in a heartbeat if there ever was.

that wont work, cause you will have people voting cheaters, simply because they beat them.

 

and it will deffinately happen like that, i can already see kids spamming ops chat to vote for a certain person, simply because theyre better than them

Of course that will happen. And likely happen often. However, it is predictable and constant and when the data is trended out there will STILL be spikes.

The spikes will only occur when a large number of accounts start voting. IF you span this for a week and look at the data, you might find that everyone has been accused of cheating, but that the account ICHEATYOUHAHA seems to have gotten triple the number of votes.

Also, it looks like with the data that the entire guild called DESTROYYOUSUKKA has been reporting everyone in every match they play. Not only is it easy to discount their data, but it is also easy to warn them and help make the game better for everyone.

However, forget all that and look at the current system in place. Currently, people report cheating through the reporting mechanism in-game. Opening a ticket, it will likely be a bug or harassment ticket...but these are indistinguishable from real, in-game issues.

What you are saying is currently already happening. The difference is a system (and it doesn't have to be this one) but an anti-cheating system would help bioware Weight the complaints as opposed to trying to address every real and imaginary finger pointing going on.

Again, leaving server administration to the masses is never a good idea. This is just a very small example but when I played WoW (I know right *** am I doing talking about WoW) in BG's they had the report a player afk option.

 

Even though someone would be playing if they had mouthed off or just acted kind of like a jerk or just plain didn't get along with some people in the group. If they player started to guard a node and no one would be around people would spam the afk report trying to get them booted.

 

Now your case would be an extreme, make enough enemies and you get banned? or have the threshold so darn high it wouldn't even matter.

 

I don't even think I have come across 20k unique players in pvp since I started playing.

 

Also I know this sounds dumb but a lot of people are dumb. In huttball it straight says "Cheating is encouraged" by the announcer. Now to a normal person I know that doesn't mean to go download hacks...to the average stupid person that could mean a thumbs up to speed hack and to me at least that's where I see a majority of the cheaters.

 

My point is there should never be an automatic ban system that is player controlled and in all honesty I would cancel my sub in a heartbeat if there ever was.

You are confusing an anti-cheat system with an automatic ban. This is merely a filtration system so that investigations into cheating are more properly targeted. Real people will still be required to do the work. The caseload will be significantly lighter however if you rely on multiple incident reports instead of just one angry kid opening up a harassment case or some such.

The other thing I think you are confusing, (and partly because I didn't indicate a time frame) is the duration in which the data is gathered. My suggestion would be take an entire weeks worth of complaints from Sunday to Sunday and tally the voting. This gives you a wider range of match ups and a wider range of reporting. I may even need to be extended for a couple weeks or a month. Whatever is needed to gather enough data points to reveal the spikes.

This is not like WOW in which you are using a single match to get the guy booted with afk flagging. This is more like a voting system where majority wins. If everyone is voting you cheater of the month, then it at the very least warrants an investigation.

Anything like that run by players is a terrible idea.

People would vote for whoever they wanted whether they cheat or not.

That Sorc killing you too much? Vote him as a cheater and get him banned.

So why don't you implement a Cheat column like you do the MVP column? let people earn cheating points and when they reach a thresh-hold that you feel deserves investigation you can look into it. That way it's player driven, but it also weeds out the Rage portion of the accusations.

Fine idea in theory. In practice, however, this system will instantly be abused.

I don't know how many people have to tell you before you get it through your head...

PLAYER DRIVEN SYSTEMS LIKE THIS ARE A BAD IDEA!!!!!!!

Defend it to your last breath all you want. NOTHING even remotely similar to this will ever make it to game.

The problem with that is the million user player base. It's just not realistic that they can hire enough people for this duty so that when you need to report it they can get there in time to observe the behavior.

 

You also have people who will report because the "suspect" cheating, or because they are just so pissed that they want someone to listen. A points system like this would allow them to set a threshold so that only offenders that trigger an alarm will have to be investigated.

Actually it is. We pay a lot of money a month for them to make a fair, policed online game. If they want to be in this market they need to have staff.

Stop excusing them cause you think its hard. They make plenty of money off 14.99 a month to hire AMERICAN game managers for each server to monitor the warzones.

...My point is there should never be an automatic ban system that is player controlled and in all honesty I would cancel my sub in a heartbeat if there ever was.

Look more carefully at what the OP is describing. It is not a system that automatically bans people who get X number of "cheater" votes. Getting X votes would simply flag an account for investigation by REAL people, who would be able to look over the in-game logs and even watch said person while they play to see if they are really cheating.

Nice, we dont like that guy, lets all Mark him as a cheater.

By all means, if that floats your boat. It won't matter though as it would be the trending of the data that is more important than the fact that you got pissed and decided to grief.

A system like this should only fail in the case of wide spread Griefing or wide spread Apathy. And I doubt apathy would be an issue.

Take for instance me. I played in about 30 Warzones on Sunday. Lets be generous and say I met you in 15 of them.

You encourage everyone to vote me a cheater and have three other guildies teaming with you. So out of all those matches I played, you are worth 4 votes against me and maybe..what..50% of your team you were able to encourage to report me as well? So around 34 votes for me being a cheater this Sunday.

I'm likely to play an average of 7 warzones a night until the weekend, then count me in for another 30 on Sunday.

So i've got about 100 matches under my belt for the week (rounding down). You've got to be actively campaigning against me even in matches that we aren't in together to make up for all the matches where I wasn't voted a cheater.

What's more, if you get pissed off at someone else and do this to them, that makes your case worse as you increase the background noise and push the spike threshold higher.

What's more, as you so readily pointed out, you won't be alone in this. Lots of people will be doing exactly what you are doing to bunches of other people, basically creating a baseline of acceptable votes.

The way to cheat it would be for the cheater to limit the number of matches they play so that they can fit in with the background and not spike. That alone is a little bit of a victory, but extend the data sampling period for a Month and that becomes increasingly difficult to do.

Anyway, these are just my opinions I have obviously never implemented a points based anti-cheat system for an MMO before, so I can not tell you with certainty how it would work. I just know that trending is an amazing tool for filtering out anomalies and I feel it would apply well to a pvp setting like this.