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[BUG] Major Clothing Restrictions


AelixVII

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Girls can wear jeans

And cut their hair short

Wear shirts and boots

Because it's ok to be a boy

 

But for a boy to look like a girl is degrading

Because you think being a girl is degrading

But secretly...

You'd love to know what it's like

Wouldn't you?

 

- Madonna, Guy Sigsworth (What it feels like for a girl)

 

 

So lets get this shizz implemented, we know it's possible because of the way gear magically 'morphs' to suit the body type/gender. Can't be down to technical difficulties, so why the delay, but mostly...

 

Why the silence?

 

Bolded and enlarged for the truth. Plus a signal boost.

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Bolded and enlarged for the truth. Plus a signal boost.

 

Because anything that isn't ostensibly cishet dude content (PvP/PvE), isn't important to Austin's "core" demographic (because the world is 99.99% cishet dudes), and because male characters in this game get the power fantasies and the most romance and Flirt options, gender representation isn't a problem because the male characters don't suffer from it - they get to be all power fantasy, all the time. Forever.

 

Edit: ilu Kabe.

Edited by Tatile
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signal boosting this!

 

Also reiterating another issue that's been brought up previously in the thread, why do some armours on female models (and never male models) have a whole chunk taken out? It's clear that a lot of time is spent making these armours for the game so it just seems like a waste to me when they don't show up properly in game.

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signal boosting this!

 

Also reiterating another issue that's been brought up previously in the thread, why do some armours on female models (and never male models) have a whole chunk taken out? It's clear that a lot of time is spent making these armours for the game so it just seems like a waste to me when they don't show up properly in game.

 

Well, some stuff is just bugged. Like for example currently there is still a bug in how the relaxed series displays on Vector (Imperial Agent Companion).

 

But, as to the overall issue of this thread, some items are meant for females. Some items are for both. Look at our modern society. Men don't wear bikinis like women do (some do yes). So items like the Elegant/Stylish/etc series and the new dancer outfits coming out in the next pack are made for women because they are made for women. There are many other items that are made for both liked the Relaxed series.

 

It's just a fact of society, the society that created Star Wars, that women are able to wear most anything they want and not be looked at as strange, but a man wearing a woman's dress is.

 

If you want to change society, that's admirable... but it's not a "bug" that the way the game handles a VERY few (in comparison to the number of outfits that are not gender restricted) is on par with that. Sorry, but this Star Wars game isn't going to be the catalyst to break down the gender restrictions our modern society has on clothing.

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Okay, so if all the dancer sets and so forth are "made for women" - where are the revealing clothes made for men? Where are the tank tops, the tight shorts, the loincloths? We aren't necessarily demanding that all gear sets be made unisex (though I personally would like that). We just want to have the option of dressing male characters revealingly, since there already IS such an option for the female ones - and to have more options for NOT dressing female characters revealingly, by removing the bare midriffs and deep cleavages that appear on a lot of models ONLY when they're equipped on a female.

 

Sorry, but this Star Wars game isn't going to be the catalyst to break down the gender restrictions our modern society has on clothing.

 

...yeaaah, because this Star Wars game totally takes place in our modern society and must conform to its standards and prejudices. It's not like we're playing in a galaxy far, far away or anything.

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Sorry, but this Star Wars game isn't going to be the catalyst to break down the gender restrictions our modern society has on clothing.

 

It's a game, why must it adhere to contemporary society's heteronormative and sexist manner of dictating dress? Also, there is no way that having slave or dancer gear (that is as sexualised and submissive as those current) for male characters is going to "cataly[ze] the break down of gender restrictions" outside of the game, so the idea of it is hardly threatening to players or non-players. I would say you are arguing against player choice because of a perceived necessity to uphold a status quo that is unnecessary and insulting.

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Another point - I find it, shall we say, REVEALING that whenever a woman raises the point of whether we really need another dancer outfit, a lot of men rush in to say "you don't have to dress your characters like that if you don't want to".

 

Yet whenever someone suggests it should be possible to dress male characters in skimpy gear, men rush in to say how weird and bad that would be. Because apparently, despite the fact that no one would force you to dress your characters in hotpants and strappy tops either, the very idea of having to see male characters sexualized and exposed in the way that female characters (and women) are all the time is so scary and unnatural that it just can't be allowed to happen.

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Gosh, almost as though the very idea of slave and dancer gear comes with the underlying belief that women are things to looked at and used by men, and that putting men in that position (stripping their agency) is upsetting the "natural order" :rolleyes: Because of course men can only interact with women whom they find sexually attractive.
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Okay, so if all the dancer sets and so forth are "made for women" - where are the revealing clothes made for men? Where are the tank tops, the tight shorts, the loincloths? We aren't necessarily demanding that all gear sets be made unisex (though I personally would like that). We just want to have the option of dressing male characters revealingly, since there already IS such an option for the female ones - and to have more options for NOT dressing female characters revealingly, by removing the bare midriffs and deep cleavages that appear on a lot of models ONLY when they're equipped on a female.

 

 

 

...yeaaah, because this Star Wars game totally takes place in our modern society and must conform to its standards and prejudices. It's not like we're playing in a galaxy far, far away or anything.

 

Where the game takes place isn't the point. It's where the game exists. Please don't get me wrong, I'd love to see more revealing clothes for men too. Right now I have my male Guardian wearing the relaxed vestments and so is Kira, except she's wearing elegant loungewear bottoms. I swear to you, if there was an equivalent for men, he'd be wearing it. They match mostly right now... but not entirely and I'd love them to match.

 

My point is, this isn't and never will be a BUG. Calling it such isn't going to get it fixed faster than an actual bug.

 

But, as I said, this may be a fictional world, but it exists in our society and our society is the problem. From what some of you have said, i'm sure you aren't just discussing this here, at least I hope not. But, we need to change OUR society before we change Star Wars to match it... cause.. really, it kinda does match our society... except for the revealing clothes that have been released for men lately, thanks to that one player I forget his name, but he's not a designer but an actual player who photoshopped some designs for men and they liked them so much they added them to the game (he was quite excited in his thread, and announced some of his designs would be in the next cartel pack, and they were.)

 

I'll see if I can find his thread and I'll link you guys to it. Even if you aren't a master of photoshop like him, you can do what he originally started the thread for, send him screenshots of your character and suggestions on how to photoshop your screenshot. Bioware HAS shown they pay attention to him already. (The whole "Relaxed" line of gear is all based on his ideas)

 

That's how to get this changed, not calling it something it isn't.

 

Maybe put this thread in "Cartel Market Suggestions" and don't call it a bug, you might get better results. Tell them what you want to BUY (since they are after all cartel market items) and I'll be right there with you supporting you... but it bears saying again... the big problem I have with the thread is calling this a bug, and the idea that is the way to get it changed.

 

EDIT: Going to go start looking for the thread by that player I mentioned now, but in the meantime... Here is my guardian and Kira to show you what I meant about what he's wearing.

 

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a79/RagabashMoon/Screenshot_2013-06-22_07_02_15_800187-1.jpg

Edited by AbsolutGrndZero
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Alright, as promised here is his thread...

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=425762

 

Also note that the new Unfettered Trenchcoat? Totally his design from the very first page!!! So, Bioware IS listening! But, it's not a bug. Sorry, but it's not, unless you can show that the alternate graphics for the men's version exist but aren't being used. Then, maybe.

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You're getting hung up on us calling it a bug. We know it's not a bug. However, we have no way of telling Bioware that we want specifically sexualised "armour" for male characters other than to call this a "bug". The new skimpy gear for male characters is not sexualised in the way that the Slave and Dancer sets are for female characters - this I have explained, multiple times, in multiple places, and to Ms. Green as well, but very few people seem able to grasp that.

 

Slave and Dancer sets are inherently submissive.

Only women can wear Slave or Dancer sets.

 

Do you see?

 

You cannot even wear short skirts on male characters because... why? Showing off part of the leg would be too humiliating for male players?

 

Edit: Oh my god, did you just try to tell me about Ixum? Wow, I'd laugh, but you're assuming I'm some sort of moron.

Edited by Tatile
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How wonderful to have someone to explain to us what the real problem is and how to change it!

 

It's not as though we, or the Bioware staff, understand things like satire.

 

Nor is proving that there ARE a ton of female gamers and this is what we want going to help with changing gamer society, which is one of the most misogyny-ridden hobbies overall.

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Thank you all for the responses and support thus far. Shame we have felt the need to be doing this when time would have been better spent trying on and enjoying the 'bugged' gear :rolleyes:

 

Well, some stuff is just bugged. Like for example currently there is still a bug in how the relaxed series displays on Vector (Imperial Agent Companion).

 

But, as to the overall issue of this thread, some items are meant for females. Some items are for both. Look at our modern society. Men don't wear bikinis like women do (some do yes). So items like the Elegant/Stylish/etc series and the new dancer outfits coming out in the next pack are made for women because they are made for women. There are many other items that are made for both liked the Relaxed series.

 

It's just a fact of society, the society that created Star Wars, that women are able to wear most anything they want and not be looked at as strange, but a man wearing a woman's dress is.

 

If you want to change society, that's admirable... but it's not a "bug" that the way the game handles a VERY few (in comparison to the number of outfits that are not gender restricted) is on par with that. Sorry, but this Star Wars game isn't going to be the catalyst to break down the gender restrictions our modern society has on clothing.

 

Nonsense. If you're going to play the 'way star wars is' card then why have they brought the game up to the 21st century in other respects? for instance, the gay characters introduced in Makeb. Now that we've established that things have changed and they are willing to keep changing things we must ask how many other games have this clear imbalance?

 

The issue here is that they actually went out of their way to set it up and continue doing so rather than just leave the options available to both genders, perhaps because they fear offending and losing those precious pennies off their primary target market. Tell me otherwise if this isn't the reason because I'm really struggling to see it.

 

When Makeb came out how many hundreds of utterly boring comments were there about 'why my male character can flirt with Lord Cytharat'. Let's compare that with the inevitable 'why can my male character wear the female dancer set?' comments we'd get if they did the right thing and implemented it already.

 

Now did the gay characters on Makeb lead to a mass boycotting of the game? did angry male gamers leave in droves over an offending flirt they just couldn't ignore? No, and I highly doubt anything of the sort would happen if they lifted clothing restrictions. Therefore there is no good reason why it is how it is.

 

And if there is, well, the staff are still choosing not to speak to us about it.

It is a little saddening to start the only thread above 1000 views in the first 5 pages (and most likely beyond but 5 is enough to speak for itself) that does not have a developer post in it yet.

 

 

Alright, as promised here is his thread...

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=425762

 

Also note that the new Unfettered Trenchcoat? Totally his design from the very first page!!! So, Bioware IS listening! But, it's not a bug. Sorry, but it's not, unless you can show that the alternate graphics for the men's version exist but aren't being used. Then, maybe.

Making new armor to address the lack of skimpy clothing for men is not what we are discussing here and it's not a solution. It simply p*ssyfoots around the issue of gender lockouts on existing gear which we are discussing.

Edited by AelixVII
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1st, Not everyone knows about Ixum's thread. I felt it was better to mention it rather than to assume you must know about it.

 

2nd. I agree that there should be less clothing restrictions (and in fact mentioned in Ixum's thread about the amazing artwork someone posted of a male version of the Republic Dancer's outfit), but calling it a bug when it's not DOES make you look like a moron.

 

This topic should be in the suggestions forum, not the bug reports forum.

Edited by AbsolutGrndZero
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Except they'd take the suggestion as an excuse to monetize, which defeats the objective - removing the gender restrictions from already existing armours. Any male Slave or Dancer gear should be added as the existing sets; that is, the Imperial Dancer set on the Security Key Vendor should be wearable by male characters for no extra credit cost, and no additional Cartel Coin fee. Likewise, the existing Reveller sets from the Cartel Market should be wearable by male characters at no extra credit cost or additional Cartel Coin fee. Making the "suggestion" that Bioware introduce Slave or Dancer gear for male characters would be seen by them as implied consent to further monetization - further monetization should only be introduced when existing options are equalized.

 

I thought as much was obvious.

 

(Also, it is obvious everyone posting here is doing so knowingly. That you are assuming that every poster is labouring under the belief that this is a bug only shows how little you think of your fellow posters.)

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Except they'd take the suggestion as an excuse to monetize, which defeats the objective - removing the gender restrictions from already existing armours. Any male Slave or Dancer gear should be added as the existing sets; that is, the Imperial Dancer set on the Security Key Vendor should be wearable by male characters for no extra credit cost, and no additional Cartel Coin fee. Likewise, the existing Reveller sets from the Cartel Market should be wearable by male characters at no extra credit cost or additional Cartel Coin fee. Making the "suggestion" that Bioware introduce Slave or Dancer gear for male characters would be seen by them as implied consent to further monetization - further monetization should only be introduced when existing options are equalized.

 

I thought as much was obvious.

 

(Also, it is obvious everyone posting here is doing so knowingly. That you are assuming that every poster is labouring under the belief that this is a bug only shows how little you think of your fellow posters.)

 

 

I am fully aware that you don't really believe it's a bug. The point I am trying to get across is that game designers and game programmers are not the same people, even if they do work for the same company. Until the game designers actually design graphics for the male slave dancer outfit, there will not be one. So, reporting it as a bug to get them to notice... might as well complain to Sailor Jerry (who only makes rum) because you don't like cake flavored vodka. You'll get about as much results in changing the flavor of vodka as you are here.

 

As I have said, I agree that it needs to be made, and I agree it should be made VERY VERY clear that we do NOT want them made male only versions for extra money. I want to see it happen, and that's why I care so much... because I truly believe that saying it's a bug when it's not isn't going to make the RIGHT people pay attention.

Edited by AbsolutGrndZero
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There's no real way of getting our point across, though. Suggestion thread? This very thing was brought up in the Guild Summit way back when - hell, I had a guildie say it was rumoured for 1.2 because of that. Contact the CM Team? Tried that, got a "what a lovely suggestion" response back, we look like individuals, not a cohesive group. Ixum's thread? Lovely, and he's been a big influence, I can see, and he's even designed the Slave and Dancer sets onto male bodies. Still nothing.

 

I'm sorry that you don't "like" the fact that it's a bug thread, but it's all we have. It's a bug in the armour design team, if nothing else, and the checks in place that are supposed to give player choice.

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It's a bug in the armour design team, if nothing else, and the checks in place that are supposed to give player choice.

 

^

And also a bug in the checking system that should have noticed the inherent...we'll use the nice term 'oddness' of only allowing one gender to be represented in certain ways...

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Well...

 

actually... the current panties do also clip into your crotch quite noticeably with certain poses. So, the set is also bugged :p

 

Maybe THAT'S why we can't get male slave armour? Their manliness cannot be contained by mere panties? Well, the solution is simple: add buckles.

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Suggestions section is where threads go to die. That we haven't been moved there is a miracle really, and there's more of a chance of being listened to right here.

 

Maybe THAT'S why we can't get male slave armour? Their manliness cannot be contained by mere panties? Well, the solution is simple: add buckles.

Oh, I like this. ;)

Edited by AelixVII
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Everybody needs to stop grouching. These clothing restrictions are intended to be there.

Do take a seat, you're very late you know. We've been expecting terribly insightful comments like yours, oh, since page 1.

 

Good grief, imagine the uproar if Bioware decided to make it 'fair' by taking out skimpy clothing altogether. Yet when the minority speaks about inclusion of the other 50% of our characters on a tiny corner of the boards we get told to shut up. Lovely.

Edited by AelixVII
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Do take a seat, you're very late you know. We we've been expecting terribly insightful comments like yours, oh, since page 1.

 

Good grief, imagine the uproar if Bioware decided to make it 'fair' by taking out skimpy clothing altogether. Yet when the minority speaks about inclusion of the other 50% of our characters on a tiny corner of the boards we get told to shut up. Lovely.

 

Aelix's snark is kiiiiinda sexy.

Did I say that out loud? *kof* BACK TO THE ISSUE AT HAND.

Enslave everyone equally.

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Aelix's snark is kiiiiinda sexy.

Mmm, people usually just tell me to p*ss off when I'm snarky. Makes a nice change. ;)

 

Enslave everyone equally.

I would like to nominate this as the official slogan of this thread...

Edited by AelixVII
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Well...

 

actually... the current panties do also clip into your crotch quite noticeably with certain poses. So, the set is also bugged :p

 

Maybe THAT'S why we can't get male slave armour? Their manliness cannot be contained by mere panties? Well, the solution is simple: add buckles.

 

Oh yes the way the Relaxed Vestments clip on my Jedi sentinel annoys me to no end... whenever she's running (especially with her lightsabers out) or on her speeder I focus my eyes to the back of her head just so the clipping doesn't drive me insane.

 

So, I hope we can from this point get along, and that you all understand that I want this changed myself, and I'm sorry that my method of trying to help get this issue noticed by the right people came off as more antagonistic/rude than I intended, as I mentioned on Ixam's thread I would kill for a male version of the Republic Dancer's outfit that looked like the one in the drawing someone posted.

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