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Maul's Role in the Star Wars Universe


Acheilus

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I dont mind that Maul died in Ep. 1. I do think the rest of the prequil are just filler and a waste.

 

In my opinion, Vader should have risen half way in during episode II. Then have episode III bridge the gap between the two trilogies. We missed the entire rise of the rebellion so that we could have a stupid conveyor belt sequence, and a dumb scene in a 50's style diner. When I saw that Dexes Diner was set up as a 50's style place I just wanted to vomit.

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I don't know about anyone else, but after seeing the Clone Wars Cartoons(the first ones, not animated series) and watching ROTS, I think Grievous was the best villain in the movies behind Vader. Especially after his first appearance in the cartoon, I just loved him. He took out 5 Jedi and was a complete bad***. He was definitely not as cool in ROTS, but I still was amazed by his combat skills.
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6.) Allowed more sith. (if you're going to have a whole Jedi Order, then I think the balance would allow for a more believable extermination of the Jedi).

 

Rule of Two was in effect in this period, Sidious went through apprentices like a hot knife through butter, but not even he broke the rule. There was no point to expose the Sith until they were too deep to dig out (3rd movie the supreme chancellor had unlimited power). Having more sith would have ruined it because MOST Sith are ignorant bastards that don't really understand the Sith philosophy.

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Rule of Two was in effect in this period, Sidious went through apprentices like a hot knife through butter, but not even he broke the rule. There was no point to expose the Sith until they were too deep to dig out (3rd movie the supreme chancellor had unlimited power). Having more sith would have ruined it because MOST Sith are ignorant bastards that don't really understand the Sith philosophy.

 

 

Technically he did break the Rule of Two as he made Maul his apprentice while he was still the apprentice of Plagueis.

 

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I think you missed the point of his post. While I agree with the points you made, the problem is those were made after the fact of him being cut in half and having his head blown off my Owen.

 

I think what he was getting at, is they should have MADE him a more interesting character and NOT a tool.

 

THANK YOU. You're like the only person here that has said something that made sense.

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what boils down to is look, and thematics people may say he was a robot with no personality BUT is really lucas's fault. He could have been alot more then that with right story and plot, and yes he was far better " looking " and more " intimidating " then dooku ever was. so yes i agree with a bit of plot rewrite some voice parts, and actually making him a bit deeper character he could have and would have been a great villian but he falls short.

 

Edit: btw people hated dooku you do realize he was probably one of the best duelist(sword play) out of any of the jedi i think only windu was a better swordsman(and obviously anikian bests him) and he had a pretty amazing control of the force to boot. Dooku was pretty good character i tend to like him myself, he was maticulous calculated and a different sort of villain BUT i see him far more as using sidious with plans of his own...

Edited by Lokai
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6.) Allowed more sith. (if you're going to have a whole Jedi Order, then I think the balance would allow for a more believable extermination of the Jedi).

 

some of you may be glad I didn't make star wars, but that's just what I would have done. if you don't agree that's fine...i'm sure there are things you'd rather have done. Those are just a few things I think that would have given the PT a more believable flow (I'm not arguing that it would be better because I don't think you'll ever satisfy the SW fans).

 

Rule of Two. No more. Only two. A Master and an apprentice. It was the same in the OT. Vader and the Emperor.

 

There's an exception though, Vantress/Starkiller weren't truly Sith Lords, just assassins/Dark Jedi. They didn't have a Darth title, and Starkiller couldn't even let himself be reveled. Vantress [or whatever he name is] is just an assassin who has lightsabers. Just like Grevious is a Droid General yet he has lightsabers. They're trained in combat, not the Force.

 

Like I said, there's couldn't be anymore Sith, only two. You can blame Darth Bane for that. [A lot of people call him their favorite Dark Lord]

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Um, remember how Anakin survived?

 

Anakin wasn't cut in half. He had his upper, or complete, thighs left.

 

Ever played the flash game "Happy Wheels" well, there's times your legs are removed but your thighs are remaining with your upper arms and such. That's how Anakin was.

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Anakin wasn't cut in half. He had his upper, or complete, thighs left.

 

Ever played the flash game "Happy Wheels" well, there's times your legs are removed but your thighs are remaining with your upper arms and such. That's how Anakin was.

 

Yes, but Anakin was also burned alive-which does quite a bit of damage to your capillaries and nerves-and was breathing in noxious/poisonous gasses for what I gathered was a couple of hours. All this does pretty severe damage to important organs and other vital biological systems that could be argued as worse.

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what boils down to is look, and thematics people may say he was a robot with no personality BUT is really lucas's fault. He could have been alot more then that with right story and plot, and yes he was far better " looking " and more " intimidating " then dooku ever was. so yes i agree with a bit of plot rewrite some voice parts, and actually making him a bit deeper character he could have and would have been a great villian but he falls short.

 

Edit: btw people hated dooku you do realize he was probably one of the best duelist(sword play) out of any of the jedi i think only windu was a better swordsman(and obviously anikian bests him) and he had a pretty amazing control of the force to boot. Dooku was pretty good character i tend to like him myself, he was maticulous calculated and a different sort of villain BUT i see him far more as using sidious with plans of his own...

 

Nope. Maul not having a personality and being an assassin was part of the grand Plan. If he did have a personality he would try and go against Palps and just screw up everything.

 

 

Read Darth Plageuis.

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The Novel "Darth Plaguies" goes into more depth of what Maul was to the Sith dynasty.

 

Even beyond that, look at his name. Maul. It implies weapon, and that is what he was. A tool for Sidious to use against his enemies.

 

Palpatine never intended to further the rule of two, he wanted to rule forever. That was his master's goal, and then Sidious continued it.

 

Dooku, Darth Tyranus. He was the tyrant the galaxy would focus on while Palpatine gathered his own support.

 

Sidious himself, and insidious threat that no one could see... the Phantom Menace as it were.

 

Darth Maul was basically a sacrificial lamb from a story perspective. He was dangerous, killed a respected Jedi master, and his appearance began the build up of the threat that would eventually lead to the Clone Wars.

 

Palpatine created the perfect Xanatos Gambit, just like the Joker did in The Dark Knight.

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The Novel "Darth Plaguies" goes into more depth of what Maul was to the Sith dynasty.

 

Even beyond that, look at his name. Maul. It implies weapon, and that is what he was. A tool for Sidious to use against his enemies.

 

Palpatine never intended to further the rule of two, he wanted to rule forever. That was his master's goal, and then Sidious continued it.

 

Dooku, Darth Tyranus. He was the tyrant the galaxy would focus on while Palpatine gathered his own support.

 

Sidious himself, and insidious threat that no one could see... the Phantom Menace as it were.

 

Darth Maul was basically a sacrificial lamb from a story perspective. He was dangerous, killed a respected Jedi master, and his appearance began the build up of the threat that would eventually lead to the Clone Wars.

 

Palpatine created the perfect Xanatos Gambit, just like the Joker did in The Dark Knight.

 

Just because Maul was a tool used to reveal the sith and all that doesn't mean they couldn't keep him around. Use him as a distraction to keep the jedi focused on him. Even as just a tool of Palpatine he can work as a great recurring villain. Among other things I feel that the prequels suffered from not having a central villain (Palpatine's behind-closed-doors scheming doesn't count). There was Maul, but then he died, then there was Dooku, but then he died, then there was Grievous, but then he died, then we get a whiny Anakin and a crazy old Palpatine with lightning. You don't have time to fear or care about any of them. Vader was Vader, and he was there force choking and killing people the entire Trilogy. Each of the villains in the prequels did relatively minor things and they were gone before you could care.

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Just because Maul was a tool used to reveal the sith and all that doesn't mean they couldn't keep him around. Use him as a distraction to keep the jedi focused on him. Even as just a tool of Palpatine he can work as a great recurring villain. Among other things I feel that the prequels suffered from not having a central villain (Palpatine's behind-closed-doors scheming doesn't count). There was Maul, but then he died, then there was Dooku, but then he died, then there was Grievous, but then he died, then we get a whiny Anakin and a crazy old Palpatine with lightning. You don't have time to fear or care about any of them. Vader was Vader, and he was there force choking and killing people the entire Trilogy. Each of the villains in the prequels did relatively minor things and they were gone before you could care.

 

While I don't disagree that the Prequels did not have a "villain" that we saw in the forefront, it would not have fit to keep Maul around.

 

The entire basis of the prequels was the fall of Anakin to become Vader, with a sub-plot of discovering the Phantom Menace (Sidious).

 

Having a central "villain" would have directed the Republic against a central foe... they did this with Grievous and Dooku (to a lesser extent on the later, he was a sympathetic character to the galaxy). Having a "villain", a directed powerful foe would have worked against Sidious' plan.

 

Were the films disjointed with bad pacing; Yes. Did they lack a main character to sympathize with; Yes.

 

But, Maul would have only served to work against the Emperor. Plus, having him being defeated by a mere Padawan in Episode 1 would have taken the teeth out of him. At least until the Clone Wars series came out, you had an impression that Grievous and Dooku were legendary powerful villains.

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There's really a character named Savage Oppress?

 

HAHA oh wow. I think that might be the lamest character name I've ever seen. Sounds like the name of an Eastern European death metal band. And not in a good way.

 

Believe it or not, the name actually works really well when spoken aloud. It's when you see it in print that it seems absurd. (although still doesn't hold a candle to "Kit Fisto").

 

When you read Savage Opress try and mentally do it with more of a Haitian or Island type flair, with a sort of French or Creole pronunciation. trust me it comes out less ridiculous.

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Honestly, keeping Maul around would have been a good move. Really they should have fleshed out Maul more and replaced him with Dooku since Dooku's backstory was barely fleshed out in the movies anyway. Maul could have easily served the same role and prupose. Having Maul kill Qui-Gon and then escape adds further character development for both Obi-Wan and Anakin and would have better set the stage for Anakin's fall. For example, Obi-Wan is upset, but is able to overcome his feelings of revenge whereas Anakin retains them and these thoughts haunt him throughout his training.

 

Jump forward to the end of Episode 2 when they confront Maul again. Obi-Wan wants to take him on with Anakin, but Anakin still says the line "No, Im taking him now!", leaps forward, and gets batted aside. It makes sense for Anakin to do it there since he still has those feelings of revenge towards Maul. It also makes more sense why Anakin would be more willing to execute him in Episode 3.

 

Really, just replace Dooku with Maul and it could work out fine.

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Honestly, keeping Maul around would have been a good move. Really they should have fleshed out Maul more and replaced him with Dooku since Dooku's backstory was barely fleshed out in the movies anyway. Maul could have easily served the same role and prupose. Having Maul kill Qui-Gon and then escape adds further character development for both Obi-Wan and Anakin and would have better set the stage for Anakin's fall. For example, Obi-Wan is upset, but is able to overcome his feelings of revenge whereas Anakin retains them and these thoughts haunt him throughout his training.

 

Jump forward to the end of Episode 2 when they confront Maul again. Obi-Wan wants to take him on with Anakin, but Anakin still says the line "No, Im taking him now!", leaps forward, and gets batted aside. It makes sense for Anakin to do it there since he still has those feelings of revenge towards Maul. It also makes more sense why Anakin would be more willing to execute him in Episode 3.

 

Really, just replace Dooku with Maul and it could work out fine.

 

What?

 

Maul was going to use his political savvy and clout he had garnished over decades of being one of the most trusted and valued members of the Jedi council to stand up against the perceived corruption of the Republic to forge an alliance of like minded individuals to from an Independent government of Seperatists and wage a long war against a larger foe?

 

Sorry, Tyranus was used perfectly by Sidious as well.

 

Maul would have been very ill-suited for leading a government.

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I don't think they should have gotten rid of Dooku at all, but they should have kept Maul as a centric antagonist. The way I see it, there could have been a Triumvirate villain scenario present in the movies. You introduce Maul as the face of evil for both the Republic and the Jedi; many resources are dedicated by both to try and catch and defeat him, while war begins to boil under the surface.

 

Dooku leaves the Jedi after loosing faith in their ability to find and stop this Dark side villain, who ALSO killed his friend Qui-Gon. He is contacted by Sidious for his political savvy and resources and convinces Dooku to join him and Maul in reforming the Republic and Jedi. There is tension between Maul and Dooku, but Dooku is never officially made Sith and his plan-as was implied, at least to me, in Episode 2-is to instead start this war and convince Jedi that their order and the Republic need that change he is fighting for, WITH the ultimate plan being to betray the Sith in the end.

 

The Republic Senate, with their resources being dedicated to find Maul, has certain systems become disillusioned with the Republics function, and are convinced by Dooku that breaking away would be in those systems best interests. Those that remain are still given Maul as a centric enemy to keep the war in perspective as to "who's elimination would end it." If you need to think of a real life equivalent, think of Bin Laden to the US over the last decade. This only adds to their fear and want to give Palpatine power so he can better find and eliminate the threat then they have over the previous decade before Episode 2.

 

You could even have a mock relationship of Master and Apprentice set up between Maul and Dooku. At the end of Episode 1 they weren't exactly sure whether Maul was in charge or not, and the absence of a greater enemy than Maul could dupe the Jedi into believing they knew both their targets.

 

So in short: Maul is a galactic enemy and weapon of the Separatists, Dooku is the political mastermind behind engineering the war(at least to the public), and Sidious is pulling all the strings. Honestly, I think it gives you the opportunity to make Maul more menacing and Dooku a more interesting story, WHILE putting even more cards in Sidious' hands. Thus making the Prequel Trilogy better.

Edited by CobaltCommand
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But Dooku is so much better.

 

1. Better actor

 

2.More dialogue

 

3.Professional duelist who fought in world war 2

 

He just has that awesome diabolical villain feeling to him. I think it would have been much better to have him as the central villain and take maul completely out of the picture. Have Qui-Gon die to him in whichever episode, because Jinn was his former padawan, I think it would give more emotion to it, and a reoccuring villain is what the prequels lacked.

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The prequels would have been much better if Anakin was not the central character. Lucas spent so much time trying to get us to believe Anakin was good AND bad that he ruined the whole chance to make a decent trilogy.

 

Oh...CGI and couches, CGI and couches.

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No.. just no.

 

 

1st. Maul is overrated, and in the EU books his character has no personality or anything. He is like a Robot Assassin.

 

2nd. In the Darth Plageuis, it even states Maul was a tool. Maul was a tool, and Sidious knew Maul would never come close to outranking him. In fact Plageuis even knew it to. Maul's role in the Grand PLan was to reveal the Sith and that was it.

 

 

And the arguement, Savage is suppose to be Maul's equal and Savage went on a god mode in TCW is a fail. Savage was being empowered by the Night-Sisters.

 

I lol'd at 1. Maul was the single best sith (except for Revan and Exar) to ever be in Star Wars. GRIEVOUS was the robot assassin, though I admit he was pretty much a boss. Dooku sounds close and is spelt close to Doofus, so need I say more? And Vader was cool when he was Anakin. Not the blackarmored, heavy breathing, slow moving, tall machine. I mean when he had his hood up and Lightsaber out and just owned everyone while still looking like a boss. As for Savage? Maul copy.

 

If anything, Vader was a tool. Literally.

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